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PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program

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  PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-19 10:03 +0000
    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-19 08:20 -0500
      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 10:16 +0000
        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-20 09:31 -0500
          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 17:11 +0000
            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-20 16:42 -0500
              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-25 15:56 +0000
                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-25 11:23 -0500
                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 10:09 +0000
                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-26 09:33 -0500
            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 22:54 +0000
              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-20 18:40 -0500
    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-21 10:38 +0100
      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-21 08:41 -0500
        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-21 15:30 +0100
          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-21 11:04 -0500
            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-21 23:24 +0100
              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-21 19:16 -0500
            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-22 00:33 +0100
              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-21 19:19 -0500
                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-22 10:27 +0100
                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-22 11:18 +0100
                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-22 06:34 -0500
                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-22 16:00 +0100
                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-22 10:56 -0500
                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-22 15:56 +0100
                  OT: pre-PHP day (was: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program) Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-22 16:57 +0100
                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-22 11:03 -0500
                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-22 18:02 +0100
            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-22 14:47 +0100
              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-22 11:04 -0500
                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-22 18:22 +0100
                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-22 12:33 -0500
                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-22 18:46 +0100
          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2015-12-21 17:25 +0100
            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-21 23:17 +0100
              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-21 19:23 -0500
                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-28 15:26 +0100
                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-28 10:02 -0500
                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-28 18:14 +0100
                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-28 12:29 -0500
                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-28 18:54 +0100
                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-28 14:15 -0500
                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-28 21:18 +0100
                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-28 15:49 -0500
                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-12-28 20:31 -0500
                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-28 20:48 -0500
                                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-30 11:26 +0100
                                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-30 12:33 -0500
                                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-30 18:57 +0100
                                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-30 15:14 -0500
                                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-30 19:05 +0100
                                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-30 15:18 -0500
                                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-12-30 21:55 -0500
                                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Matthew Carter <m@ahungry.com> - 2015-12-30 22:14 -0500
                                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-30 22:43 -0500
                                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-30 22:46 -0500
                                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-30 22:42 -0500
                                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-31 09:07 +0100
                                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-31 07:47 -0500
                                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-31 16:11 +0100
                                                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-31 10:47 -0500
                                                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-31 17:43 +0100
                                                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-31 13:49 -0500
                                                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-31 20:35 +0100
                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-30 11:18 +0100
                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-30 12:36 -0500
                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-30 19:09 +0100
                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2015-12-30 20:28 +0100
                                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-30 15:21 -0500
                                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-31 09:09 +0100
                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-30 15:21 -0500
                                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-31 09:16 +0100
                                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-31 07:53 -0500
                                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-31 16:03 +0100
                                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-31 10:49 -0500
                                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-31 17:16 +0100
                                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-31 13:54 -0500
                                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-31 20:41 +0100
                                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-31 14:47 -0500
                                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-31 20:56 +0100
                                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-31 15:21 -0500
                                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-31 17:52 +0100
                                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-31 13:51 -0500
                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-28 19:35 +0100
                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-28 14:17 -0500
        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-22 00:20 +0100
          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-21 19:27 -0500
            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-22 10:12 +0100
              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-22 06:36 -0500
                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-22 13:57 +0100
                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-22 11:05 -0500
                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2015-12-22 17:22 +0100
                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-22 12:01 -0500
                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2015-12-22 18:25 +0100
                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-22 12:34 -0500
    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2015-12-21 14:53 -0800
      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-21 19:30 -0500
        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Matthew Carter <m@ahungry.com> - 2015-12-21 21:40 -0500
          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Matthew Carter <m@ahungry.com> - 2015-12-21 21:47 -0500
            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-21 21:55 -0500
              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Matthew Carter <m@ahungry.com> - 2015-12-21 21:57 -0500
                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-21 22:01 -0500
          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-21 21:54 -0500
            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2015-12-22 11:54 -0800
              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-22 15:42 -0500
                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2016-01-02 11:08 -0800
                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-02 15:12 -0500
                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2016-01-04 10:41 -0800
                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-04 14:39 -0500
        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2015-12-22 11:49 -0800
          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-12-22 15:44 -0500
            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2016-01-02 11:09 -0800
              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-02 15:14 -0500
                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2016-01-04 10:42 -0800
                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-04 14:41 -0500
                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-04 22:54 +0100
                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-04 19:40 -0500
                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-05 04:19 +0100
                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-04 22:29 -0500
                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Matthew Carter <m@ahungry.com> - 2016-01-05 02:02 -0500
                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-05 09:08 -0500
                                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-05 18:55 +0100
                                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-05 14:06 -0500
                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2016-01-04 15:51 -0800
                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-04 19:41 -0500
                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-05 04:27 +0100
                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-04 22:31 -0500
                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-05 04:48 +0100
                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-04 22:52 -0500
                                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-05 09:16 +0100
                                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-05 09:08 -0500
                                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-05 18:59 +0100
                                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-05 14:07 -0500
                                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-06 01:13 +0100
                                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-05 20:52 -0500
                                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-06 08:53 +0100
                                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-06 09:15 -0500
                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2016-01-05 09:00 -0800
                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-05 19:01 +0100
                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-05 14:09 -0500
                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-06 01:15 +0100
                                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-05 20:51 -0500
                                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-06 08:54 +0100
                                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-06 09:16 -0500
                                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-11 09:02 +0100
                                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-11 08:02 -0500
                                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-11 23:42 +0100
                                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-11 20:44 -0500
                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-05 14:09 -0500
                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2016-01-06 09:27 -0800
                              Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-06 15:25 -0500
                                Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2016-01-06 13:27 -0800
                                  Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-06 16:32 -0500
                                    Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-11 09:03 +0100
                                      Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-11 08:03 -0500
                                        Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-11 23:45 +0100
                                          Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-01-11 20:48 -0500
                                            Re: PHP boilerplate to appear at the top of any program Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2016-01-12 05:34 +0100

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#15951

On 12/21/2015 9:47 PM, Matthew Carter wrote:
> Matthew Carter <m@ahungry.com> writes:
> 
>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>
>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.  Probably the
>>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>>
>>>> <?php
>>>> namespace ...;
>>>>
>>>> use ...;
>>>> use ...;
>>>>
>>>> /**
>>>>  * ...
>>>>  */
>>>> class ...
>>>> {
>>>> }
>>>
>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>>
>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>
>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>
>> http://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/
> 
> Obviously the reason for that is:
> 
> https://packagist.org/statistics
> 
> To tap into the 80k available packages (almost half a million various
> versions for whatever your requirements may be on the environment).
> 
> Without using namespaces, you can't really contribute or make use of
> anything off composer.
> 

How about specific examples?  How many of those packages do you actually
use?  And how many of them define namespaces?  And finally, how many
times have you found a conflict where you need namespaces?

For me, the answer to the last one is zero.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#15952

Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:

> On 12/21/2015 9:47 PM, Matthew Carter wrote:
>> Matthew Carter <m@ahungry.com> writes:
>> 
>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
>>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>>>
>>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>>
>>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>>
>>> http://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/
>> 
>> Obviously the reason for that is:
>> 
>> https://packagist.org/statistics
>> 
>> To tap into the 80k available packages (almost half a million various
>> versions for whatever your requirements may be on the environment).
>> 
>> Without using namespaces, you can't really contribute or make use of
>> anything off composer.
>> 
>
> How about specific examples?  How many of those packages do you actually
> use?  And how many of them define namespaces?  And finally, how many
> times have you found a conflict where you need namespaces?
>
> For me, the answer to the last one is zero.

In various capacities, I've probably used about 20 to 30 of them (and
they all have their own chained dependencies etc.).

You can't use them without namespaces (or write your own internal
composer installable dependencies), as all the loading composer does is
via the PSR4 autoloading.

After getting used to it, it's much easier than past methods of
installing community packages/libraries.

-- 
Matthew Carter (m@ahungry.com)
http://ahungry.com

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#15953

On 12/21/2015 9:57 PM, Matthew Carter wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
> 
>> On 12/21/2015 9:47 PM, Matthew Carter wrote:
>>> Matthew Carter <m@ahungry.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
>>>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>>>
>>>> http://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/
>>>
>>> Obviously the reason for that is:
>>>
>>> https://packagist.org/statistics
>>>
>>> To tap into the 80k available packages (almost half a million various
>>> versions for whatever your requirements may be on the environment).
>>>
>>> Without using namespaces, you can't really contribute or make use of
>>> anything off composer.
>>>
>>
>> How about specific examples?  How many of those packages do you actually
>> use?  And how many of them define namespaces?  And finally, how many
>> times have you found a conflict where you need namespaces?
>>
>> For me, the answer to the last one is zero.
> 
> In various capacities, I've probably used about 20 to 30 of them (and
> they all have their own chained dependencies etc.).
> 
> You can't use them without namespaces (or write your own internal
> composer installable dependencies), as all the loading composer does is
> via the PSR4 autoloading.
> 
> After getting used to it, it's much easier than past methods of
> installing community packages/libraries.
> 

How about some specifics?  I've used a number of packages over the
years, and never found a need for namespaces.

Exactly which packages did you use that caused conflicts?

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==================
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==================

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#15950

On 12/21/2015 9:40 PM, Matthew Carter wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
> 
>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.  Probably the
>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>
>>> <?php
>>> namespace ...;
>>>
>>> use ...;
>>> use ...;
>>>
>>> /**
>>>  * ...
>>>  */
>>> class ...
>>> {
>>> }
>>
>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>
>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>
>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
> 
> http://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/
> 

I know how it works.  But I have never found a need for namespaces. in PHP.


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==================

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#15977

On 12/21/15 6:54 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 12/21/2015 9:40 PM, Matthew Carter wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>
>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.  Probably the
>>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>>
>>>> <?php
>>>> namespace ...;
>>>>
>>>> use ...;
>>>> use ...;
>>>>
>>>> /**
>>>>   * ...
>>>>   */
>>>> class ...
>>>> {
>>>> }
>>>
>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>>
>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>
>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>
>> http://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/
>>
>
> I know how it works.  But I have never found a need for namespaces. in PHP.
Well, the framework I use (symfony2) has a class called "Response". 
Guzzle also has a class called "Response".  Also, BrowserKit has a class 
"Response".   The fact that they are all in their appropriate namespaces 
means that I can use them quite easily.

That's just one specific example of *many* that I've encountered.

Not to mention that using namespaces allows one to group things 
semantically, making the code-base easier to understand and traverse.

Sure, you can write tons of PHP without namespaces.  Just like you can 
write tons of Java or C++ without them.  It's just easier to have 
sustainable projects that use namespaces.

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#15978

On 12/22/2015 2:54 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
> On 12/21/15 6:54 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 12/21/2015 9:40 PM, Matthew Carter wrote:
>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing. 
>>>>> Probably the
>>>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>>>
>>>>> <?php
>>>>> namespace ...;
>>>>>
>>>>> use ...;
>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>
>>>>> /**
>>>>>   * ...
>>>>>   */
>>>>> class ...
>>>>> {
>>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
>>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>>>
>>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>>
>>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>>
>>> http://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/
>>>
>>
>> I know how it works.  But I have never found a need for namespaces. in
>> PHP.
> Well, the framework I use (symfony2) has a class called "Response".
> Guzzle also has a class called "Response".  Also, BrowserKit has a class
> "Response".   The fact that they are all in their appropriate namespaces
> means that I can use them quite easily.
> 
> That's just one specific example of *many* that I've encountered.
> 
> Not to mention that using namespaces allows one to group things
> semantically, making the code-base easier to understand and traverse.
> 
> Sure, you can write tons of PHP without namespaces.  Just like you can
> write tons of Java or C++ without them.  It's just easier to have
> sustainable projects that use namespaces.
> 

Do you use them all on the same page?

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Jerry Stuckle
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==================

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#16059

On 12/22/15 12:42 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 12/22/2015 2:54 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>> On 12/21/15 6:54 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 12/21/2015 9:40 PM, Matthew Carter wrote:
>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>>>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.
>>>>>> Probably the
>>>>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <?php
>>>>>> namespace ...;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /**
>>>>>>    * ...
>>>>>>    */
>>>>>> class ...
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
>>>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>>>
>>>> http://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/
>>>>
>>>
>>> I know how it works.  But I have never found a need for namespaces. in
>>> PHP.
>> Well, the framework I use (symfony2) has a class called "Response".
>> Guzzle also has a class called "Response".  Also, BrowserKit has a class
>> "Response".   The fact that they are all in their appropriate namespaces
>> means that I can use them quite easily.
>>
>> That's just one specific example of *many* that I've encountered.
>>
>> Not to mention that using namespaces allows one to group things
>> semantically, making the code-base easier to understand and traverse.
>>
>> Sure, you can write tons of PHP without namespaces.  Just like you can
>> write tons of Java or C++ without them.  It's just easier to have
>> sustainable projects that use namespaces.
>>
>
> Do you use them all on the same page?
Are you still so primitive that one page is one PHP file?  I feel sorry 
for you then.

Yes, there are times where I have code which refers both to the Guzzle 
Response and the Symfony2 Response.

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#16061

On 1/2/2016 2:08 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
> On 12/22/15 12:42 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 12/22/2015 2:54 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>> On 12/21/15 6:54 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 12/21/2015 9:40 PM, Matthew Carter wrote:
>>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>>>>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.
>>>>>>> Probably the
>>>>>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <?php
>>>>>>> namespace ...;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /**
>>>>>>>    * ...
>>>>>>>    */
>>>>>>> class ...
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like
>>>>>> C++,
>>>>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>>>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know how it works.  But I have never found a need for namespaces. in
>>>> PHP.
>>> Well, the framework I use (symfony2) has a class called "Response".
>>> Guzzle also has a class called "Response".  Also, BrowserKit has a class
>>> "Response".   The fact that they are all in their appropriate namespaces
>>> means that I can use them quite easily.
>>>
>>> That's just one specific example of *many* that I've encountered.
>>>
>>> Not to mention that using namespaces allows one to group things
>>> semantically, making the code-base easier to understand and traverse.
>>>
>>> Sure, you can write tons of PHP without namespaces.  Just like you can
>>> write tons of Java or C++ without them.  It's just easier to have
>>> sustainable projects that use namespaces.
>>>
>>
>> Do you use them all on the same page?
> Are you still so primitive that one page is one PHP file?  I feel sorry
> for you then.
> 
> Yes, there are times where I have code which refers both to the Guzzle
> Response and the Symfony2 Response.
> 

No, I don't try to fit 50 pages into one script.  And I feel sorry for
anyone who does.  Good programmers know how to separate their code; only
crap programmers try to put unrelated things all into one file.

But then good programmers can do a lot more a lot faster writing their
own code and don't need frameworks to do it for them.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#16064

On 1/2/16 12:12 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 1/2/2016 2:08 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>> On 12/22/15 12:42 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 12/22/2015 2:54 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>> On 12/21/15 6:54 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>> On 12/21/2015 9:40 PM, Matthew Carter wrote:
>>>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>>>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>>>>>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.
>>>>>>>> Probably the
>>>>>>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <?php
>>>>>>>> namespace ...;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /**
>>>>>>>>     * ...
>>>>>>>>     */
>>>>>>>> class ...
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like
>>>>>>> C++,
>>>>>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>>>>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I know how it works.  But I have never found a need for namespaces. in
>>>>> PHP.
>>>> Well, the framework I use (symfony2) has a class called "Response".
>>>> Guzzle also has a class called "Response".  Also, BrowserKit has a class
>>>> "Response".   The fact that they are all in their appropriate namespaces
>>>> means that I can use them quite easily.
>>>>
>>>> That's just one specific example of *many* that I've encountered.
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention that using namespaces allows one to group things
>>>> semantically, making the code-base easier to understand and traverse.
>>>>
>>>> Sure, you can write tons of PHP without namespaces.  Just like you can
>>>> write tons of Java or C++ without them.  It's just easier to have
>>>> sustainable projects that use namespaces.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Do you use them all on the same page?
>> Are you still so primitive that one page is one PHP file?  I feel sorry
>> for you then.
>>
>> Yes, there are times where I have code which refers both to the Guzzle
>> Response and the Symfony2 Response.
>>
>
> No, I don't try to fit 50 pages into one script.  And I feel sorry for
> anyone who does.  Good programmers know how to separate their code; only
> crap programmers try to put unrelated things all into one file.
>
> But then good programmers can do a lot more a lot faster writing their
> own code and don't need frameworks to do it for them.
>
I think you misunderstand me, and applied the issue backward.  One piece 
of code which does one thing is in each PHP files.  Every "page" is 
composed of multiple PHP files, so namespaces are absolutely necessary.

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#16068

On 1/4/2016 1:41 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
> On 1/2/16 12:12 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 1/2/2016 2:08 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>> On 12/22/15 12:42 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 12/22/2015 2:54 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>> On 12/21/15 6:54 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/21/2015 9:40 PM, Matthew Carter wrote:
>>>>>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>>>>>>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.
>>>>>>>>> Probably the
>>>>>>>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <?php
>>>>>>>>> namespace ...;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /**
>>>>>>>>>     * ...
>>>>>>>>>     */
>>>>>>>>> class ...
>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like
>>>>>>>> C++,
>>>>>>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>>>>>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know how it works.  But I have never found a need for
>>>>>> namespaces. in
>>>>>> PHP.
>>>>> Well, the framework I use (symfony2) has a class called "Response".
>>>>> Guzzle also has a class called "Response".  Also, BrowserKit has a
>>>>> class
>>>>> "Response".   The fact that they are all in their appropriate
>>>>> namespaces
>>>>> means that I can use them quite easily.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's just one specific example of *many* that I've encountered.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to mention that using namespaces allows one to group things
>>>>> semantically, making the code-base easier to understand and traverse.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure, you can write tons of PHP without namespaces.  Just like you can
>>>>> write tons of Java or C++ without them.  It's just easier to have
>>>>> sustainable projects that use namespaces.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you use them all on the same page?
>>> Are you still so primitive that one page is one PHP file?  I feel sorry
>>> for you then.
>>>
>>> Yes, there are times where I have code which refers both to the Guzzle
>>> Response and the Symfony2 Response.
>>>
>>
>> No, I don't try to fit 50 pages into one script.  And I feel sorry for
>> anyone who does.  Good programmers know how to separate their code; only
>> crap programmers try to put unrelated things all into one file.
>>
>> But then good programmers can do a lot more a lot faster writing their
>> own code and don't need frameworks to do it for them.
>>
> I think you misunderstand me, and applied the issue backward.  One piece
> of code which does one thing is in each PHP files.  Every "page" is
> composed of multiple PHP files, so namespaces are absolutely necessary.
> 
> 

That is possible.  But I have several PHP class files which I use in
various scripts also.  For instance, I might have one for database
access, another supports various HTML fields, and the like.  But I've
never had a conflict in class names where I need namespaces.

Now with C++ it's quite a bit different.  I was using namespaces there
before it became required (i.e. std::cout).  But that was because the
programs were much larger than any PHP scripts, and we did run into
occasional conflicts.

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==================
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==================

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#15976

On 12/21/15 4:30 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>> On 12/19/15 2:03 AM, James Harris wrote:
>>> In the interests of getting a consistent approach to developing PHP
>>> programs do you guys have any guidelines you follow and/or boilerplate
>>> you include when writing a new piece of PHP? For HTML output I mean
>>> things like the following.
>>>
>>> At the top of the code: setup such as error_reporting, ini_set etc and
>>> constant definitions.
>>>
>>> Use of ob_start before the code generates 'normal' output so that the
>>> program can present custom error information if something goes wrong.
>>>
>>> A fail() function which will ob_end_clean and then render a suitable
>>> failure HTML page.
>>>
>>> Some sort of debugging functions which will work with output buffer
>>> capture to generate sensible debug output.
>>>
>>> Is there anything else that should be present at the top of a piece of
>>> code?
>>>
>>> Given the fact that some of the above may vary between environments such
>>> as test and production is it feasible to pull in something like the
>>> above with
>>>
>>>     require_once("preamble_code.php");
>>>
>>> I have code such as the above at the moment but for various reasons it
>>> is not completely satisfactory. I wondered if people who were more
>>> familiar with PHP had come up with a better approach.
>>>
>>> If some of the above can be parameterised might it even be possible to
>>> come up with a universal module that can be pulled in with require_once
>>> (and then the functions within it called with certain parameters)?
>>>
>>> James
>>
>>
>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.  Probably the
>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>
>> <?php
>> namespace ...;
>>
>> use ...;
>> use ...;
>>
>> /**
>>   * ...
>>   */
>> class ...
>> {
>> }
>
> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
> but pretty worthless in PHP.
Well, I'm developing large systems on top of Symfony2. namespaces make 
it much easier to manage the auto-loader in an efficient manor. PSR-0 
and all that.
>
> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>
> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).

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#15979

On 12/22/2015 2:49 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
> On 12/21/15 4:30 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>> On 12/19/15 2:03 AM, James Harris wrote:
>>>> In the interests of getting a consistent approach to developing PHP
>>>> programs do you guys have any guidelines you follow and/or boilerplate
>>>> you include when writing a new piece of PHP? For HTML output I mean
>>>> things like the following.
>>>>
>>>> At the top of the code: setup such as error_reporting, ini_set etc and
>>>> constant definitions.
>>>>
>>>> Use of ob_start before the code generates 'normal' output so that the
>>>> program can present custom error information if something goes wrong.
>>>>
>>>> A fail() function which will ob_end_clean and then render a suitable
>>>> failure HTML page.
>>>>
>>>> Some sort of debugging functions which will work with output buffer
>>>> capture to generate sensible debug output.
>>>>
>>>> Is there anything else that should be present at the top of a piece of
>>>> code?
>>>>
>>>> Given the fact that some of the above may vary between environments
>>>> such
>>>> as test and production is it feasible to pull in something like the
>>>> above with
>>>>
>>>>     require_once("preamble_code.php");
>>>>
>>>> I have code such as the above at the moment but for various reasons it
>>>> is not completely satisfactory. I wondered if people who were more
>>>> familiar with PHP had come up with a better approach.
>>>>
>>>> If some of the above can be parameterised might it even be possible to
>>>> come up with a universal module that can be pulled in with require_once
>>>> (and then the functions within it called with certain parameters)?
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>
>>>
>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.  Probably the
>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>
>>> <?php
>>> namespace ...;
>>>
>>> use ...;
>>> use ...;
>>>
>>> /**
>>>   * ...
>>>   */
>>> class ...
>>> {
>>> }
>>
>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
> Well, I'm developing large systems on top of Symfony2. namespaces make
> it much easier to manage the auto-loader in an efficient manor. PSR-0
> and all that.
>>
>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>
>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
> 

If you say so.  Last time I used Symfony was before namespaces were
available.  I didn't see a huge advantage in using it, though, and it
forces you to do it their way.  I found I could code pages faster and
better without it.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#16060

On 12/22/15 12:44 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 12/22/2015 2:49 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>> On 12/21/15 4:30 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>> On 12/19/15 2:03 AM, James Harris wrote:
>>>>> In the interests of getting a consistent approach to developing PHP
>>>>> programs do you guys have any guidelines you follow and/or boilerplate
>>>>> you include when writing a new piece of PHP? For HTML output I mean
>>>>> things like the following.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the top of the code: setup such as error_reporting, ini_set etc and
>>>>> constant definitions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Use of ob_start before the code generates 'normal' output so that the
>>>>> program can present custom error information if something goes wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> A fail() function which will ob_end_clean and then render a suitable
>>>>> failure HTML page.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some sort of debugging functions which will work with output buffer
>>>>> capture to generate sensible debug output.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there anything else that should be present at the top of a piece of
>>>>> code?
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the fact that some of the above may vary between environments
>>>>> such
>>>>> as test and production is it feasible to pull in something like the
>>>>> above with
>>>>>
>>>>>      require_once("preamble_code.php");
>>>>>
>>>>> I have code such as the above at the moment but for various reasons it
>>>>> is not completely satisfactory. I wondered if people who were more
>>>>> familiar with PHP had come up with a better approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> If some of the above can be parameterised might it even be possible to
>>>>> come up with a universal module that can be pulled in with require_once
>>>>> (and then the functions within it called with certain parameters)?
>>>>>
>>>>> James
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.  Probably the
>>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>>
>>>> <?php
>>>> namespace ...;
>>>>
>>>> use ...;
>>>> use ...;
>>>>
>>>> /**
>>>>    * ...
>>>>    */
>>>> class ...
>>>> {
>>>> }
>>>
>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>> Well, I'm developing large systems on top of Symfony2. namespaces make
>> it much easier to manage the auto-loader in an efficient manor. PSR-0
>> and all that.
>>>
>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>
>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>
>
> If you say so.  Last time I used Symfony was before namespaces were
> available.  I didn't see a huge advantage in using it, though, and it
> forces you to do it their way.  I found I could code pages faster and
> better without it.

Pages, maybe. Sites, tools, libraries, frameworks, I doubt.

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#16062

On 1/2/2016 2:09 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
> On 12/22/15 12:44 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 12/22/2015 2:49 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>> On 12/21/15 4:30 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>> On 12/19/15 2:03 AM, James Harris wrote:
>>>>>> In the interests of getting a consistent approach to developing PHP
>>>>>> programs do you guys have any guidelines you follow and/or
>>>>>> boilerplate
>>>>>> you include when writing a new piece of PHP? For HTML output I mean
>>>>>> things like the following.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the top of the code: setup such as error_reporting, ini_set etc
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> constant definitions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Use of ob_start before the code generates 'normal' output so that the
>>>>>> program can present custom error information if something goes wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A fail() function which will ob_end_clean and then render a suitable
>>>>>> failure HTML page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some sort of debugging functions which will work with output buffer
>>>>>> capture to generate sensible debug output.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there anything else that should be present at the top of a
>>>>>> piece of
>>>>>> code?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given the fact that some of the above may vary between environments
>>>>>> such
>>>>>> as test and production is it feasible to pull in something like the
>>>>>> above with
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      require_once("preamble_code.php");
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have code such as the above at the moment but for various
>>>>>> reasons it
>>>>>> is not completely satisfactory. I wondered if people who were more
>>>>>> familiar with PHP had come up with a better approach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If some of the above can be parameterised might it even be
>>>>>> possible to
>>>>>> come up with a universal module that can be pulled in with
>>>>>> require_once
>>>>>> (and then the functions within it called with certain parameters)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing. 
>>>>> Probably the
>>>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>>>
>>>>> <?php
>>>>> namespace ...;
>>>>>
>>>>> use ...;
>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>
>>>>> /**
>>>>>    * ...
>>>>>    */
>>>>> class ...
>>>>> {
>>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
>>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>> Well, I'm developing large systems on top of Symfony2. namespaces make
>>> it much easier to manage the auto-loader in an efficient manor. PSR-0
>>> and all that.
>>>>
>>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>>
>>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>>
>>
>> If you say so.  Last time I used Symfony was before namespaces were
>> available.  I didn't see a huge advantage in using it, though, and it
>> forces you to do it their way.  I found I could code pages faster and
>> better without it.
> 
> Pages, maybe. Sites, tools, libraries, frameworks, I doubt.
> 
> 

Yes, frameworks.  I can code pages as they need to be coded, instead of
trying to work around the restrictions of crappy frameworks.

And my pages are smaller and load faster also, because I don't have to
load tons of unnecessary junk.

But it's all about knowing how to code.


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#16065

On 1/2/16 12:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 1/2/2016 2:09 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>> On 12/22/15 12:44 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 12/22/2015 2:49 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>> On 12/21/15 4:30 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/19/15 2:03 AM, James Harris wrote:
>>>>>>> In the interests of getting a consistent approach to developing PHP
>>>>>>> programs do you guys have any guidelines you follow and/or
>>>>>>> boilerplate
>>>>>>> you include when writing a new piece of PHP? For HTML output I mean
>>>>>>> things like the following.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the top of the code: setup such as error_reporting, ini_set etc
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> constant definitions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Use of ob_start before the code generates 'normal' output so that the
>>>>>>> program can present custom error information if something goes wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A fail() function which will ob_end_clean and then render a suitable
>>>>>>> failure HTML page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some sort of debugging functions which will work with output buffer
>>>>>>> capture to generate sensible debug output.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there anything else that should be present at the top of a
>>>>>>> piece of
>>>>>>> code?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given the fact that some of the above may vary between environments
>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>> as test and production is it feasible to pull in something like the
>>>>>>> above with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       require_once("preamble_code.php");
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have code such as the above at the moment but for various
>>>>>>> reasons it
>>>>>>> is not completely satisfactory. I wondered if people who were more
>>>>>>> familiar with PHP had come up with a better approach.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If some of the above can be parameterised might it even be
>>>>>>> possible to
>>>>>>> come up with a universal module that can be pulled in with
>>>>>>> require_once
>>>>>>> (and then the functions within it called with certain parameters)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>>>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.
>>>>>> Probably the
>>>>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <?php
>>>>>> namespace ...;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /**
>>>>>>     * ...
>>>>>>     */
>>>>>> class ...
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like C++,
>>>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>>> Well, I'm developing large systems on top of Symfony2. namespaces make
>>>> it much easier to manage the auto-loader in an efficient manor. PSR-0
>>>> and all that.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you say so.  Last time I used Symfony was before namespaces were
>>> available.  I didn't see a huge advantage in using it, though, and it
>>> forces you to do it their way.  I found I could code pages faster and
>>> better without it.
>>
>> Pages, maybe. Sites, tools, libraries, frameworks, I doubt.
>>
>>
>
> Yes, frameworks.  I can code pages as they need to be coded, instead of
> trying to work around the restrictions of crappy frameworks.
>
> And my pages are smaller and load faster also, because I don't have to
> load tons of unnecessary junk.
I doubt that.  Though I don't doubt they have more bugs and are harder 
to maintain.
>
> But it's all about knowing how to code.
Indeed it is.

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#16069

On 1/4/2016 1:42 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
> On 1/2/16 12:14 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 1/2/2016 2:09 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>> On 12/22/15 12:44 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 12/22/2015 2:49 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>> On 12/21/15 4:30 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/21/2015 5:53 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/19/15 2:03 AM, James Harris wrote:
>>>>>>>> In the interests of getting a consistent approach to developing PHP
>>>>>>>> programs do you guys have any guidelines you follow and/or
>>>>>>>> boilerplate
>>>>>>>> you include when writing a new piece of PHP? For HTML output I mean
>>>>>>>> things like the following.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At the top of the code: setup such as error_reporting, ini_set etc
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> constant definitions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Use of ob_start before the code generates 'normal' output so
>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>> program can present custom error information if something goes
>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A fail() function which will ob_end_clean and then render a
>>>>>>>> suitable
>>>>>>>> failure HTML page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some sort of debugging functions which will work with output buffer
>>>>>>>> capture to generate sensible debug output.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there anything else that should be present at the top of a
>>>>>>>> piece of
>>>>>>>> code?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given the fact that some of the above may vary between environments
>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>> as test and production is it feasible to pull in something like the
>>>>>>>> above with
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       require_once("preamble_code.php");
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have code such as the above at the moment but for various
>>>>>>>> reasons it
>>>>>>>> is not completely satisfactory. I wondered if people who were more
>>>>>>>> familiar with PHP had come up with a better approach.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If some of the above can be parameterised might it even be
>>>>>>>> possible to
>>>>>>>> come up with a universal module that can be pulled in with
>>>>>>>> require_once
>>>>>>>> (and then the functions within it called with certain parameters)?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 99.9% of my php files look something like the following.  If I use
>>>>>>> require/include, it is a very specialized thing I'm doing.
>>>>>>> Probably the
>>>>>>> bootstrap or front-controller.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <?php
>>>>>>> namespace ...;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>>> use ...;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /**
>>>>>>>     * ...
>>>>>>>     */
>>>>>>> class ...
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do you use namespaces?  They are very useful in languages like
>>>>>> C++,
>>>>>> but pretty worthless in PHP.
>>>>> Well, I'm developing large systems on top of Symfony2. namespaces make
>>>>> it much easier to manage the auto-loader in an efficient manor. PSR-0
>>>>> and all that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I said before, I do use it for my own classes, and things like
>>>>>> userids/passwords, which I store outside of my DOCUMENT_ROOT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I have never found a need for namespaces in PHP (unlike C++).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you say so.  Last time I used Symfony was before namespaces were
>>>> available.  I didn't see a huge advantage in using it, though, and it
>>>> forces you to do it their way.  I found I could code pages faster and
>>>> better without it.
>>>
>>> Pages, maybe. Sites, tools, libraries, frameworks, I doubt.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes, frameworks.  I can code pages as they need to be coded, instead of
>> trying to work around the restrictions of crappy frameworks.
>>
>> And my pages are smaller and load faster also, because I don't have to
>> load tons of unnecessary junk.
> I doubt that.  Though I don't doubt they have more bugs and are harder
> to maintain.

You have no idea.  They are easy to maintain and have few bugs because
they don't include all kinds of unnecessary stuff.  And since they don't
include unnecessary stuff, they load more quickly.

Try coding for a site which gets up to 1K page views per second, for
instance.  You aren't going to get that with Symfony2 or any other
framework.

>>
>> But it's all about knowing how to code.
> Indeed it is.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#16071

Jerry Stuckle schrieb am 2016-01-04 um 20:41:

> On 1/4/2016 1:42 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
[...]
>> I doubt that.  Though I don't doubt they have more bugs and are harder
>> to maintain.
> 
> You have no idea.  They are easy to maintain and have few bugs because
> they don't include all kinds of unnecessary stuff.  And since they don't
> include unnecessary stuff, they load more quickly.
> 
> Try coding for a site which gets up to 1K page views per second, for
> instance.  You aren't going to get that with Symfony2 or any other
> framework.

I did some tests.

The machine: Xeon E3-1231 with 32 GB RAM und 2x512 GB SSD (Samsung Pro
850) as RAID 1. Apache uses PHP as a module and at the time of testing
no one else is accessing the machine.

Apache bench with the following command line:

ab -n 10000 -c 100 http://server.example/script.php

First a really simple script - which results in about 12000 requests per
second:

<?php
echo "Hello World";
?>

Now with a simple database connection - just opening a MySQL connection
and closing it again:

<?php
$link = mysqli_connect("localhost", "user", "password");
if($link)
{
	echo "OK";
	mysqli_close($link);
}
?>

The same benchmark now only reports less than 500(!) requests per
second. And yes - the MySQL database runs quite fine. But the overhead
of opening and closing the connection all the time really hurts the
performance as it takes at least 1-2 ms just for that.



-- 
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
http://fahrradzukunft.de

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#16074

On 1/4/2016 4:54 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle schrieb am 2016-01-04 um 20:41:
> 
>> On 1/4/2016 1:42 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
> [...]
>>> I doubt that.  Though I don't doubt they have more bugs and are harder
>>> to maintain.
>>
>> You have no idea.  They are easy to maintain and have few bugs because
>> they don't include all kinds of unnecessary stuff.  And since they don't
>> include unnecessary stuff, they load more quickly.
>>
>> Try coding for a site which gets up to 1K page views per second, for
>> instance.  You aren't going to get that with Symfony2 or any other
>> framework.
> 
> I did some tests.
> 
> The machine: Xeon E3-1231 with 32 GB RAM und 2x512 GB SSD (Samsung Pro
> 850) as RAID 1. Apache uses PHP as a module and at the time of testing
> no one else is accessing the machine.
> 
> Apache bench with the following command line:
> 
> ab -n 10000 -c 100 http://server.example/script.php
>

ab does not do page views.  It does hits only.  It does not retrieve
linked URIs or process javascript.

> First a really simple script - which results in about 12000 requests per
> second:
> 
> <?php
> echo "Hello World";
> ?>
> 
> Now with a simple database connection - just opening a MySQL connection
> and closing it again:
> 

Wow.  You can do a hello world script!

> <?php
> $link = mysqli_connect("localhost", "user", "password");
> if($link)
> {
> 	echo "OK";
> 	mysqli_close($link);
> }
> ?>
> 

And even connect to a database!

> The same benchmark now only reports less than 500(!) requests per
> second. And yes - the MySQL database runs quite fine. But the overhead
> of opening and closing the connection all the time really hurts the
> performance as it takes at least 1-2 ms just for that.
> 
> 
> 

Now how about *REAL* pages.  But you just proved you can't do them.
You're just trolling.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#16076

Jerry Stuckle unfriendly as usual:

> On 1/4/2016 4:54 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle schrieb am 2016-01-04 um 20:41:
>>
>>> On 1/4/2016 1:42 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> I doubt that.  Though I don't doubt they have more bugs and are harder
>>>> to maintain.
>>>
>>> You have no idea.  They are easy to maintain and have few bugs because
>>> they don't include all kinds of unnecessary stuff.  And since they don't
>>> include unnecessary stuff, they load more quickly.
>>>
>>> Try coding for a site which gets up to 1K page views per second, for
>>> instance.  You aren't going to get that with Symfony2 or any other
>>> framework.
>>
>> I did some tests.
>>
>> The machine: Xeon E3-1231 with 32 GB RAM und 2x512 GB SSD (Samsung Pro
>> 850) as RAID 1. Apache uses PHP as a module and at the time of testing
>> no one else is accessing the machine.
>>
>> Apache bench with the following command line:
>>
>> ab -n 10000 -c 100 http://server.example/script.php
>>
> 
> ab does not do page views.  It does hits only.  It does not retrieve
> linked URIs or process javascript.

Yep - so the number of page views will definitely be even *lower*, not
higher. To get an impression how fast (or slow) a server is, this is
still a good estimation - and YOU KNOW THIS!


>> First a really simple script - which results in about 12000 requests per
>> second:
>>
>> <?php
>> echo "Hello World";
>> ?>
>>
>> Now with a simple database connection - just opening a MySQL connection
>> and closing it again:
>>
> 
> Wow.  You can do a hello world script!

It's just an example.


>> <?php
>> $link = mysqli_connect("localhost", "user", "password");
>> if($link)
>> {
>> 	echo "OK";
>> 	mysqli_close($link);
>> }
>> ?>
>>
> 
> And even connect to a database!

It's just an example.


>> The same benchmark now only reports less than 500(!) requests per
>> second. And yes - the MySQL database runs quite fine. But the overhead
>> of opening and closing the connection all the time really hurts the
>> performance as it takes at least 1-2 ms just for that.
>>
>>
>>
> 
> Now how about *REAL* pages.  But you just proved you can't do them.

You know the word of the meaning "example" or "really simple script"?


> You're just trolling.

I want to help others with *examples* what can affect the speed of PHP
scripts. Some readers may also notice that there is a benchmark tool
with Apache (ab) they did not noticed yet.

And do you call this trolling?



-- 
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
http://fahrradzukunft.de

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#16078

On 1/4/2016 10:19 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle unfriendly as usual:
> 
>> On 1/4/2016 4:54 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Jerry Stuckle schrieb am 2016-01-04 um 20:41:
>>>
>>>> On 1/4/2016 1:42 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>>> I doubt that.  Though I don't doubt they have more bugs and are harder
>>>>> to maintain.
>>>>
>>>> You have no idea.  They are easy to maintain and have few bugs because
>>>> they don't include all kinds of unnecessary stuff.  And since they don't
>>>> include unnecessary stuff, they load more quickly.
>>>>
>>>> Try coding for a site which gets up to 1K page views per second, for
>>>> instance.  You aren't going to get that with Symfony2 or any other
>>>> framework.
>>>
>>> I did some tests.
>>>
>>> The machine: Xeon E3-1231 with 32 GB RAM und 2x512 GB SSD (Samsung Pro
>>> 850) as RAID 1. Apache uses PHP as a module and at the time of testing
>>> no one else is accessing the machine.
>>>
>>> Apache bench with the following command line:
>>>
>>> ab -n 10000 -c 100 http://server.example/script.php
>>>
>>
>> ab does not do page views.  It does hits only.  It does not retrieve
>> linked URIs or process javascript.
> 
> Yep - so the number of page views will definitely be even *lower*, not
> higher. To get an impression how fast (or slow) a server is, this is
> still a good estimation - and YOU KNOW THIS!
>

Not at all.  You're doing page views from a single client.  There are no
concurrent requests as occurs in a live system.  And I have no idea what
your network is, either - which also affects speed.

IOW, your test is worthless.

> 
>>> First a really simple script - which results in about 12000 requests per
>>> second:
>>>
>>> <?php
>>> echo "Hello World";
>>> ?>
>>>
>>> Now with a simple database connection - just opening a MySQL connection
>>> and closing it again:
>>>
>>
>> Wow.  You can do a hello world script!
> 
> It's just an example.
> 

Glad you can do that much!

> 
>>> <?php
>>> $link = mysqli_connect("localhost", "user", "password");
>>> if($link)
>>> {
>>> 	echo "OK";
>>> 	mysqli_close($link);
>>> }
>>> ?>
>>>
>>
>> And even connect to a database!
> 
> It's just an example.
> 

Wow!

> 
>>> The same benchmark now only reports less than 500(!) requests per
>>> second. And yes - the MySQL database runs quite fine. But the overhead
>>> of opening and closing the connection all the time really hurts the
>>> performance as it takes at least 1-2 ms just for that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Now how about *REAL* pages.  But you just proved you can't do them.
> 
> You know the word of the meaning "example" or "really simple script"?
>

Yes, I know the meaning of "example".  But I also know what constitutes
a valid test and what does not.  Yours does not.

> 
>> You're just trolling.
> 
> I want to help others with *examples* what can affect the speed of PHP
> scripts. Some readers may also notice that there is a benchmark tool
> with Apache (ab) they did not noticed yet.
>

Yes, but it doesn't emulate a high request rate as you get in the real
world.  It is good at showing how quickly the web server responds to
individual request.  But that's about it.

> And do you call this trolling?
> 
> 

No, I call it being argumentative with invalid data.

Now try running it from 1,000 separate servers, all connected via
broadband with your server running on a high speed backbone in a data
center.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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