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testing email deliverability...

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  testing email deliverability... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-05 01:48 +0100
    Re: testing email deliverability... Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2014-06-04 18:40 -0700
    Re: testing email deliverability... "Tony Marston" <TonyMarston@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-05 03:47 +0100
      Re: testing email deliverability... Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2014-06-05 04:53 +0000
        Re: testing email deliverability... Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2014-06-05 09:13 +0100
          Re: testing email deliverability... Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2014-06-05 08:05 -0700
        Re: testing email deliverability... Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-09 11:30 +0200
          Re: testing email deliverability... Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2014-06-09 23:08 +0000
            Re: testing email deliverability... Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-10 11:08 +0200
    Re: testing email deliverability... Sam <sam@email-scan.com> - 2014-06-04 22:04 -0500
      Re: testing email deliverability... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-06-04 23:27 -0400
      Re: testing email deliverability... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-05 05:37 +0100
        Re: testing email deliverability... Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2014-06-04 21:55 -0700
        Re: testing email deliverability... Chuck Anderson <cycletourist@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-05 21:36 -0600
          Re: testing email deliverability... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-06-06 09:41 -0400
            Re: testing email deliverability... Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 14:37 +0000
              Re: testing email deliverability... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-06 16:46 +0100
                Re: testing email deliverability... Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2014-06-06 10:39 -0700
    Re: testing email deliverability... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-06-04 23:05 -0400
    Re: testing email deliverability... "AvdB" <nomail@example.invalid> - 2014-06-05 12:59 +0200
      Re: testing email deliverability... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-05 13:51 +0100
    Re: testing email deliverability... Adrienne Boswell <arbpen@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-05 18:39 +0000
      Re: testing email deliverability... Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2014-06-05 20:46 +0000
        Re: testing email deliverability... Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2014-06-05 14:41 -0700
        Re: testing email deliverability... Adrienne Boswell <arbpen@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-05 22:21 +0000
    Re: testing email deliverability... James Moe <jimoeDESPAM@sohnen-moe.com> - 2014-06-05 13:14 -0700
    Re: testing email deliverability... Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-06 14:11 +0200
    Re: testing email deliverability... Chris Davies <chris-usenet@roaima.co.uk> - 2014-06-09 13:53 +0100

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#13792

On 05/06/14 11:59, AvdB wrote:
> "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
> news:lmoeok$5v6$1@news.albasani.net...
>> what I want is a function like
>>
>> is_valid_mail("user12345@gmail.com")
>>
>> that will return true or false if gmail accepts the user as known (yes
>> the spam is always @gmail.com) WITHOUT having to write a dns mx
>> lookup, then connect to socket 25 and etc etc etc..
>>
>> exim -bt tells me if the domain is valid, but not the user.
>>
>> I am not particular how its achieved - anything can be merged into the
>> existing code.
>
> As an idea to work on:
>
> is_valid_mail() checks your database for known users.

There are no known users.

Or hey wouldn't be using the contact page.

> If unknown, display a 'verify first' page.
> Present a unique code which the user has to mail back to you.
> Still not 100% save, but if a user can send using a certain address,
> there's reason to believe he can receive as well. Add the user to your
> database.

Making it bloody awkward for genuine users defeats the purpose.

>
> Not enough?
> Make it a three way handshake.
> The user mails you his code, your autoresponder sends (after verifying
> the code, obviously) another unique code.
> Your form checks { is_valid_mail() or presents_valid_code() }
> You now have proof email traffic is possible in both directions.
>
>
At this point genuine enquirers have simply buggered off elsewhere.

>


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#13794

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote

> I have web contact pages which are used by anyone to send enquiries.
> 
> I want to make sure that anyone using them has a valid reply address 
set 
> in a web form BEFORE I forward the message on to the site 
administrators.
> 
> 
> Mailer is exim, and that's currently but not necessarily invoked by the 
> php mail() function.
> 
> 
> what I want is a function like
> 
> is_valid_mail("user12345@gmail.com")
> 
> that will return true or false if gmail accepts the user as known (yes 
> the spam is always @gmail.com) WITHOUT having to write a dns mx lookup, 
> then connect to socket 25 and etc etc etc..
> 
> exim -bt tells me if the domain is valid, but not the user.
> 
> I am not particular how its achieved - anything can be merged into the 
> existing code.
> 
> anyone done this?
> 
> 

As others have said, there really is no reliable way to do this, other 
than actually sending an email and waiting for a response.  Groupmail by 
Infacta does have the ability to verify addresses in a list.  It waits 
for a response back and whatever the undeliverable response is, invalid 
domain, invalid user, full mailbox, etc.  This allows you to keep clean 
email lists.

But, that is not going to help you in your application.  I have several 
email addresses, and if I want a response back to something, then I use 
my primary email address.  If it's something I think is going to add me 
to some mailing list, then I use one of the other ones.

So, you could put something on your form like:

"Please use a valid email address.  Your issue will not be addressed if 
our email to you is returned."

-- 
Adrienne Boswell
Arbpen Web Site Design Services - http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info/
The Good Plate - Fresh Gourmet Recipes - http://the-good-plate.com/
Please respond to the group so others can share

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#13796

In comp.lang.php, Adrienne Boswell  <arbpen@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote
>> what I want is a function like
>> is_valid_mail("user12345@gmail.com")
> So, you could put something on your form like:
> 
> "Please use a valid email address. Your issue will not be addressed if
> our email to you is returned."

If anyone believed that, Usenet would have been gone long ago.
How many people post with valid email addresses? Certainly not
Mr Ineptocracy.

Elijah
------
$ dict natural
[snip]
5 definitions found

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:
[snip]
     8. Of or pertaining to the lower or animal nature, as
        contrasted with the higher or moral powers, or that which
        is spiritual; being in a state of nature; unregenerate.
        [1913 Webster]
  
              The natural man receiveth not the things of the
              Spirit of God.                        --1 Cor. ii.
                                                    14.
[snip]

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#13797

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.misc.]
On 2014-06-05, Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> In comp.lang.php, Adrienne Boswell  <arbpen@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote
>>> what I want is a function like
>>> is_valid_mail("user12345@gmail.com")
>> So, you could put something on your form like:
>> 
>> "Please use a valid email address. Your issue will not be addressed if
>> our email to you is returned."
>
> If anyone believed that, Usenet would have been gone long ago.

I disagree.  Usenet questions are (or should be) answered on usenet, so
a valid mailbox in the From: header is not necessary.  But if I'm
running a Q&A where the normal response route is via email, then
requiring a valid mailbox address is perfectly reasonable.

--keith

-- 
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

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#13798

Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote

> In comp.lang.php, Adrienne Boswell  <arbpen@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote
>>> what I want is a function like
>>> is_valid_mail("user12345@gmail.com")
>> So, you could put something on your form like:
>> 
>> "Please use a valid email address. Your issue will not be addressed
>> if our email to you is returned."
> 
> If anyone believed that, Usenet would have been gone long ago.
> How many people post with valid email addresses? Certainly not
> Mr Ineptocracy.
> 

The OP was asking about a form, not Usenet.

-- 
Adrienne Boswell
Arbpen Web Site Design Services - http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info/
The Good Plate - Fresh Gourmet Recipes - http://the-good-plate.com/
Please respond to the group so others can share

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#13795

On 06/04/2014 05:48 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> I have web contact pages which are used by anyone to send enquiries.
>
  There are numerous methods to defeat robo-spammers. The simplest is to
require the sendee to enter a specific text into a field; the text is on
the web page itself, e.g., "Enter 'no-spam-4-me.'" You obviously need to
verify the text when receiving a post. This works quite well for us.

-- 
James Moe
jmm-list at sohnen-moe dot com

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#13801

Am 2014-06-05 02:48, schrieb The Natural Philosopher:

> I have web contact pages which are used by anyone to send enquiries.
> 
> I want to make sure that anyone using them has a valid reply address set 
> in a web form BEFORE I forward the message on to the site administrators.

Without asking the MX you will never know, if the MX is willing to
accept the mail.

And even then - temporary 4xx-failures due to Greylisting are a valid
behaviour as well as failures due to a quota limitation etc. - which all
does *not* mean that the e-mail address is invalid. Unfortunately the
opposite behaviour - accepting a RCPT TO without any error in return -
must not be interpreted as "this is a valid address".

Therefore the usual way to handle this is to send an e-email with a
confirmation request so the user can approve that himself - combined
with a database table to store the pending approvals (which should
timeout after a certain time if no one approves the request - e.g. after
7 days).


-- 
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
http://fahrradzukunft.de

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#13807

In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> I want to make sure that anyone using them has a valid reply address set 
> in a web form BEFORE I forward the message on to the site administrators.

Short of emailing the address and waiting for a reply, you can't.

What you can do is determine whether the address is plausible (syntax,
possible delivery, etc.)

Chris

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