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anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

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  anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-02 13:27 -0700
    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> - 2013-02-02 14:57 -0600
      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 03:45 -0700
        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> - 2013-02-03 06:00 -0600
    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2013-02-02 16:27 -0500
      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 03:49 -0700
        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-03 11:00 +0000
        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2013-02-03 10:17 -0500
          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 11:40 -0700
            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2013-02-03 14:00 -0500
              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Richard Yates <richard@yatesguitar.com> - 2013-02-03 13:56 -0800
              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Martin <no@spam.invalid> - 2013-02-04 01:53 +0100
                Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-04 02:40 +0000
                Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-04 09:14 +0000
              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 02:32 -0700
                Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2013-02-04 11:06 -0500
                  Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 09:15 -0700
                    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-04 16:24 +0000
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2013-02-04 11:35 -0500
                        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 02:22 -0700
                          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:16 +0000
                            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 11:49 -0700
                              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-05 21:22 +0000
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-04 16:38 +0000
                        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in   PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-04 17:41 +0100
                          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in   PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-04 16:58 +0000
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 02:21 -0700
                        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:15 +0000
                          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 11:52 -0700
                            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-05 21:23 +0000
                  Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-05 06:00 +0000
                Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 13:49 +0100
                  Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-05 08:22 -0500
                  Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@wizardstower> - 2013-02-05 08:50 -0600
        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-04 08:40 +0100
          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 02:49 -0700
    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-02-02 15:43 -0600
      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 03:57 -0700
    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Keith D. Lee" <keithdlee2012@gmail.com> - 2013-02-02 22:20 +0000
      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 04:13 -0700
        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-04 12:23 +0000
          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 08:57 -0700
            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 14:04 +0100
        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 13:59 +0100
    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-03 10:58 +0100
      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 04:20 -0700
        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2013-02-03 12:44 +0100
          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-03 11:50 +0000
            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2013-02-03 13:47 +0100
              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-03 13:23 +0000
              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-04 11:32 +0000
            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 11:43 -0700
      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-03 13:08 +0000
        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in   PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-03 14:49 +0100
          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-03 08:16 -0600
            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-03 15:28 +0000
              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-03 09:39 -0600
            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-03 17:50 +0100
              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-03 11:24 -0600
                Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-03 19:25 +0000
                  Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-03 20:25 +0000
                    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-03 21:47 +0000
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-03 16:32 -0600
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-03 22:59 +0000
                        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-04 00:21 +0000
                        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-04 11:46 +0000
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-03 23:13 +0000
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in    PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-04 17:21 +0100
                        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in    PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-04 16:28 +0000
                  Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in  PHP? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-03 14:26 -0600
          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in   PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-04 11:37 +0000
    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-03 13:17 +0000
    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-04 08:38 +0100
      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-04 09:04 +0000
        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-04 10:29 +0100
          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-04 09:34 +0000
            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 03:06 -0700
          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 03:01 -0700
          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 09:08 -0700
            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-04 17:34 +0100
            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-04 16:44 +0000
              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 02:36 -0700
                Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-02-05 01:49 -0800
                Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-05 15:03 +0000
                  Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:07 -0700
                    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-05 20:22 +0000
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-05 22:27 +0000
                        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-06 00:06 +0000
                        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-06 04:32 -0700
                          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-06 11:50 +0000
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-06 04:22 -0700
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-06 15:37 +0000
                    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-05 22:13 +0000
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-05 23:38 +0000
            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 02:26 -0700
              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-05 10:31 +0000
                Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 13:41 +0100
                  Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-05 12:56 +0000
                    Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 14:08 +0100
                      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:24 -0700
                        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-05 20:14 +0000
                        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-02-06 06:27 +0100
                        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> - 2013-02-06 19:48 -0600
                          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@wizardstower> - 2013-02-06 22:44 -0600
                            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? GooseMan <TheGoose@gonnagiveittothegander.org> - 2013-02-06 21:38 -0800
                            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-07 15:13 +0100
                            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> - 2013-02-10 08:09 -0600
                  Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:10 -0700
              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-05 21:51 +0000
                Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-05 22:32 +0000
              Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Meeh <meeh@i2pmail.org> - 2013-02-05 17:51 +0100
      Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 02:55 -0700
        Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 13:42 +0100
          Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:28 -0700
            Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-09 20:58 +0100

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#8215 — Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> writes:
> John Hasler wrote:

>> Maintainers are free to use it in scripts.
>
> Certainly not boot time scripts and it appears that it
> is frowned upon for other scripts.
>
> <http://lintian.debian.org/tags/possible-bashism-in-maintainer-script.html>
>
> Ubuntu also adopted the policy of not using bashisms in startup scripts.
>
>   <https://wiki.ubuntu.COM/DashAsBinSh>

Neither of those pages contain instructions to avoid Bash.  They just
tell you not to use Bashisms in scripts starting “#!/bin/sh”.

Notice for instance that (at least in sid) dash.preinst is a #!/bin/bash
script, but dash doesn’t appear on the lintian page.

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#8217 — Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 20:25:39h +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

> Neither of those pages contain instructions to avoid Bash.

But this tends to suggest that bash should be avoided if possible.

From <http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html>

QUOTE

 You may wish to restrict your script to SUSv3 features plus the above set when
 possible so that it may use /bin/sh as its interpreter. Checking your script
 with checkbashisms from the devscripts package or running your script with an
 alternate shell such as posh may help uncover violations of the above requirements.
 If in doubt whether a script complies with these requirements, use /bin/bash. 

UNQUOTE

> Notice for instance that (at least in sid) dash.preinst is a #!/bin/bash
> script, but dash doesn’t appear on the lintian page.

Well Debianistas do not always follow their own recommendations,
do they?  ;)

{init.d/}# ls -1 | wc -l
120

{init.d/}# grep bash *
acpi-support:#!/bin/bash
console-log:#! /bin/bash
nfs-kernel-server:#!/bin/bash

{init.d}# grep '#! */bin/sh' * | wc -l
120

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#8219 — Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

Debian Policy is a standard for Debian maintainers and follows the usual
conventions.  "You may wish" is not a synonym for "shall" or even for
"should".
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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#8220 — Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

On 03/02/13 21:47, J G Miller wrote:
> On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 20:25:39h +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>
>> Neither of those pages contain instructions to avoid Bash.
>
> But this tends to suggest that bash should be avoided if possible.
>
>  From <http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html>
>
> QUOTE
>
>   You may wish to restrict your script to SUSv3 features plus the above set when
>   possible so that it may use /bin/sh as its interpreter. Checking your script
>   with checkbashisms from the devscripts package or running your script with an
>   alternate shell such as posh may help uncover violations of the above requirements.
>   If in doubt whether a script complies with these requirements, use /bin/bash.
>
> UNQUOTE
>
>> Notice for instance that (at least in sid) dash.preinst is a #!/bin/bash
>> script, but dash doesn’t appear on the lintian page.
>
> Well Debianistas do not always follow their own recommendations,
> do they?  ;)
>
> {init.d/}# ls -1 | wc -l
> 120
>
> {init.d/}# grep bash *
> acpi-support:#!/bin/bash
> console-log:#! /bin/bash
> nfs-kernel-server:#!/bin/bash
>
> {init.d}# grep '#! */bin/sh' * | wc -l
> 120
>
That's amazing! 120-3 = 120!


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#8222 — Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 22:59:15h +0000,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> That's amazing! 120-3 = 120!

My cut 'n' paste went wrong.

ls -1 | wc -l
123

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#8241 — Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

On 2013-02-03, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 03/02/13 21:47, J G Miller wrote:

>> Well Debianistas do not always follow their own recommendations,
>> do they?  ;)
>>
>> {init.d/}# ls -1 | wc -l
>> 120
>>
>> {init.d/}# grep bash *
>> acpi-support:#!/bin/bash
>> console-log:#! /bin/bash
>> nfs-kernel-server:#!/bin/bash
>>
>> {init.d}# grep '#! */bin/sh' * | wc -l
>> 120
>>
> That's amazing! 120-3 = 120!
>

no, that'd be /etc/init.d/README and other files with matching 
strings on lines other than the first.

-- 
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

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#8221 — Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> writes:
> Richard Kettlewell wrote:

>> Neither of those pages contain instructions to avoid Bash.
>
> But this tends to suggest that bash should be avoided if possible.
>
> From <http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html>
>
> QUOTE
>
>  You may wish to restrict your script to SUSv3 features plus the above
>  set when possible so that it may use /bin/sh as its
>  interpreter. Checking your script with checkbashisms from the
>  devscripts package or running your script with an alternate shell
>  such as posh may help uncover violations of the above requirements.
>  If in doubt whether a script complies with these requirements, use
>  /bin/bash.
>
> UNQUOTE

You seem to be reading “you may wish to” as “you should”, and perhaps to
have had trouble reading the “if in doubt” part at all.

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#8247 — Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

Am 03.02.2013 22:47, schrieb J G Miller:
> On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 20:25:39h +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> 
>> Neither of those pages contain instructions to avoid Bash.
> 
> But this tends to suggest that bash should be avoided if possible.
> 
> From <http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html>
> 
> QUOTE
> 
>  You may wish to restrict your script to SUSv3 features plus the above set when
>  possible so that it may use /bin/sh as its interpreter. Checking your script
>  with checkbashisms from the devscripts package or running your script with an
>  alternate shell such as posh may help uncover violations of the above requirements.
>  If in doubt whether a script complies with these requirements, use /bin/bash. 
> 
> UNQUOTE
> 
>> Notice for instance that (at least in sid) dash.preinst is a #!/bin/bash
>> script, but dash doesn’t appear on the lintian page.
> 
> Well Debianistas do not always follow their own recommendations,
> do they?  ;)
> 
> {init.d/}# ls -1 | wc -l
> 120
> 
> {init.d/}# grep bash *
> acpi-support:#!/bin/bash
> console-log:#! /bin/bash
> nfs-kernel-server:#!/bin/bash
> 
> {init.d}# grep '#! */bin/sh' * | wc -l
> 120
> 

In archlinux all 47 scripts in /etc/rc.d are bash scripts.

In suse 11.4 /etc/init.d (and subdirs) I count 273 /bin/sh and 75 /bin/bash

I never had true Debian because of their conservatism.

/Str.

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#8249 — Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

On 04/02/13 16:21, M. Strobel wrote:
> Am 03.02.2013 22:47, schrieb J G Miller:
>> On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 20:25:39h +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>
>>> Neither of those pages contain instructions to avoid Bash.
>>
>> But this tends to suggest that bash should be avoided if possible.
>>
>>  From <http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html>
>>
>> QUOTE
>>
>>   You may wish to restrict your script to SUSv3 features plus the above set when
>>   possible so that it may use /bin/sh as its interpreter. Checking your script
>>   with checkbashisms from the devscripts package or running your script with an
>>   alternate shell such as posh may help uncover violations of the above requirements.
>>   If in doubt whether a script complies with these requirements, use /bin/bash.
>>
>> UNQUOTE
>>
>>> Notice for instance that (at least in sid) dash.preinst is a #!/bin/bash
>>> script, but dash doesn’t appear on the lintian page.
>>
>> Well Debianistas do not always follow their own recommendations,
>> do they?  ;)
>>
>> {init.d/}# ls -1 | wc -l
>> 120
>>
>> {init.d/}# grep bash *
>> acpi-support:#!/bin/bash
>> console-log:#! /bin/bash
>> nfs-kernel-server:#!/bin/bash
>>
>> {init.d}# grep '#! */bin/sh' * | wc -l
>> 120
>>
>
> In archlinux all 47 scripts in /etc/rc.d are bash scripts.
>
> In suse 11.4 /etc/init.d (and subdirs) I count 273 /bin/sh and 75 /bin/bash
>
> I never had true Debian because of their conservatism.
>
> /Str.
>
my debian server shows one instance of /bin/bash, and that's mysql startup.

All the rest are /bin/sh...

-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#8216 — Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

I wrote:
> [Debian] maintainers are free to use [Bash] in scripts.

J G Miller writes:
> Certainly not boot time scripts and it appears that it
> is frowned upon for other scripts.

From the Debian Policy Manual:

   All command scripts, including the package maintainer scripts inside
   the package and used by dpkg, should have a #! line naming the shell
   to be used to interpret them.  In the case of Perl scripts this
   should be #!/usr/bin/perl.
                                                         
   ....

   Shell scripts (sh and bash) other than init.d scripts should almost
   certainly start with set -e so that errors are detected. init.d
   scripts are something of a special case, due to how frequently they
   need to call commands that are allowed to fail, and it may instead be
   easier to check the exit status of commands directly. See Writing the
   scripts, Section 9.3.2 for more information about writing init.d
   scripts.

   ...

   If a shell script requires non-SUSv3 features from the shell
   interpreter other than those listed above, the appropriate shell must
   be specified in the first line of the script (e.g., #!/bin/bash) and
   the package must depend on the package providing the shell (unless
   the shell package is marked "Essential", as in the case of bash).

   ...    
   
   If in doubt whether a script complies with these requirements, use
   /bin/bash.

   ...
   
   csh and tcsh should be avoided as scripting languages.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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#8240 — Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP?

On 2013-02-03, M. Strobel <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> wrote:
> Am 03.02.2013 14:08, schrieb J G Miller:
>> On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 10:58:04h +0100, M. Strobel wrote:
>> 
>>> But in system administration the bash is the shell that starts Linux up.
>> 
>> Most of the major distributions do not use bash as the startup shell,
>> but dash to provide a Bourne shell (not Bourne Again shell).
>> 
>
> And in which distributions /bin/sh is not a link to /bin/bash?

dash is a debian thing (in name atleast),  
it's used on debian and probably most of the ".deb" distros.



-- 
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

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#8197

In article <kejss302gi7@news6.newsguy.com>,
 crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> wrote:

> (Apologies for the cross-post.)
> 
> I don't like bash, haven't seen anything that crude since back in the 
> days when I was writing FORTRAN and BASIC, so I've been writing all of 
> my local applications in PHP.

Quite right too. Life's too short to fart about with types and 
line-noise masquerading as a shell script.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#8228

crankypuss, 2013-02-02 21:27:

[...]
> Is there a forum where the other folks (presuming there are any) who
> have been writing applications in PHP hang out?  Don't say "yeah dummy,
> go to comp.lang.python" please, my homor quotient is maxed out for
> today. <g>

Maybe <http://gtk.php.net/> is what you are looking for.

But this is still very limited - i recommend to learn C++ and how to use
Qt. See <http://qt-project.org/downloads>.

Qt also provides "Qt Creator" - a nice IDE including GUI designer,
debugger etc.. (see <http://qt-project.org/wiki/Category:Tools::QtCreator>).


-- 
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

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#8230

In article <510F6570.8060103@arnowelzel.de>,
 Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> crankypuss, 2013-02-02 21:27:
> 
> [...]
> > Is there a forum where the other folks (presuming there are any) who
> > have been writing applications in PHP hang out?  Don't say "yeah dummy,
> > go to comp.lang.python" please, my homor quotient is maxed out for
> > today. <g>
> 
> Maybe <http://gtk.php.net/> is what you are looking for.

Website hasn't been updated for three years.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#8232

Am 04.02.2013 10:04, schrieb Tim Streater:

> In article <510F6570.8060103@arnowelzel.de>,
> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>> crankypuss, 2013-02-02 21:27:
>>
>> [...]
>> > Is there a forum where the other folks (presuming there are any) who
>> > have been writing applications in PHP hang out?  Don't say "yeah dummy,
>> > go to comp.lang.python" please, my homor quotient is maxed out for
>> > today. <g>
>>
>> Maybe <http://gtk.php.net/> is what you are looking for.
>
> Website hasn't been updated for three years.

I know - but this is everything i'm aware of for building "standalone" 
applications with a GUI. If you can recommend something better - feel 
free to do so. Maybe the OP will understand, why using PHP for this 
purpose is not the best idea ;-)


-- 
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

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#8234

In article <kenv1g$ich$1@dont-email.me>,
 Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> Am 04.02.2013 10:04, schrieb Tim Streater:
> 
> > In article <510F6570.8060103@arnowelzel.de>,
> > Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >
> >> crankypuss, 2013-02-02 21:27:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >> > Is there a forum where the other folks (presuming there are any) who
> >> > have been writing applications in PHP hang out?  Don't say "yeah dummy,
> >> > go to comp.lang.python" please, my homor quotient is maxed out for
> >> > today. <g>
> >>
> >> Maybe <http://gtk.php.net/> is what you are looking for.
> >
> > Website hasn't been updated for three years.
> 
> I know - but this is everything i'm aware of for building "standalone" 
> applications with a GUI. If you can recommend something better - feel 
> free to do so. Maybe the OP will understand, why using PHP for this 
> purpose is not the best idea ;-)

I can't, unfortunately, I've been waiting for the gtk stuff myself for 6 
or 7 years.

That doesn't stop me writing scripts in PHP. Neither does it stop me 
writing applications where I do the GUI bit in Javascript and the 
backend stuff in PHP. Heavy? Sure, but who cares. That's why we have 
multi-core, multi-GHz CPUs.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#8238

On 02/04/2013 02:34 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <kenv1g$ich$1@dont-email.me>,
> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 04.02.2013 10:04, schrieb Tim Streater:
>>
>> > In article <510F6570.8060103@arnowelzel.de>,
>> > Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> >
>> >> crankypuss, 2013-02-02 21:27:
>> >>
>> >> [...]
>> >> > Is there a forum where the other folks (presuming there are any) who
>> >> > have been writing applications in PHP hang out?  Don't say "yeah
>> dummy,
>> >> > go to comp.lang.python" please, my homor quotient is maxed out for
>> >> > today. <g>
>> >>
>> >> Maybe <http://gtk.php.net/> is what you are looking for.
>> >
>> > Website hasn't been updated for three years.
>>
>> I know - but this is everything i'm aware of for building "standalone"
>> applications with a GUI. If you can recommend something better - feel
>> free to do so. Maybe the OP will understand, why using PHP for this
>> purpose is not the best idea ;-)
>
> I can't, unfortunately, I've been waiting for the gtk stuff myself for 6
> or 7 years.
>
> That doesn't stop me writing scripts in PHP. Neither does it stop me
> writing applications where I do the GUI bit in Javascript and the
> backend stuff in PHP. Heavy? Sure, but who cares. That's why we have
> multi-core, multi-GHz CPUs.
>

Yep.  With almost any desktop application you can imagine, unless it's 
written *very* poorly, the amount of time spent waiting for the user to 
do something is a couple orders of magnitude larger than the time spent 
actually doing processing.  Desktop applications are only serving one 
user and he's as slow as a human, it's different from a server 
supporting a zillion requests from all and sundry.

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#8237

On 02/04/2013 02:29 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Am 04.02.2013 10:04, schrieb Tim Streater:
>
>> In article <510F6570.8060103@arnowelzel.de>,
>> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>>
>>> crankypuss, 2013-02-02 21:27:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>> > Is there a forum where the other folks (presuming there are any) who
>>> > have been writing applications in PHP hang out?  Don't say "yeah
>>> dummy,
>>> > go to comp.lang.python" please, my homor quotient is maxed out for
>>> > today. <g>
>>>
>>> Maybe <http://gtk.php.net/> is what you are looking for.
>>
>> Website hasn't been updated for three years.
>
> I know - but this is everything i'm aware of for building "standalone"
> applications with a GUI. If you can recommend something better - feel
> free to do so. Maybe the OP will understand, why using PHP for this
> purpose is not the best idea ;-)
>
>

Maybe the OP will understand that his ncurses-based applications work 
whether X is started or not.  The OP has looked and grasps the idea that 
Qt and Gtk require an X server.  And the OP has written sufficient GUI 
code in C++ to recognize a crap interface when he sees one.  But thanks, 
you appeared to be trying to help, and that's appreciated.

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#8245

On 02/04/2013 02:29 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Am 04.02.2013 10:04, schrieb Tim Streater:
>
>> In article <510F6570.8060103@arnowelzel.de>,
>> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>>
>>> crankypuss, 2013-02-02 21:27:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>> > Is there a forum where the other folks (presuming there are any) who
>>> > have been writing applications in PHP hang out?  Don't say "yeah
>>> dummy,
>>> > go to comp.lang.python" please, my homor quotient is maxed out for
>>> > today. <g>
>>>
>>> Maybe <http://gtk.php.net/> is what you are looking for.
>>
>> Website hasn't been updated for three years.
>
> I know - but this is everything i'm aware of for building "standalone"
> applications with a GUI. If you can recommend something better - feel
> free to do so. Maybe the OP will understand, why using PHP for this
> purpose is not the best idea ;-)

Sometimes it's hard for me to grasp the idea that most people just use 
whatever is sitting on the shelf and would never consider the idea of 
building something else; usually it's at least as difficult for them to 
grasp the idea that for me applications are not half as interesting as 
the tools that enable them.  See, I don't *care* what's available this 
week for writing standalone apps under PHP, what I mostly care about is 
what the underlying operating system will support reliably and what the 
PHP language itself is capable of.

The original post didn't ask for someone to help a poor weenie build 
desktop applications in PHP, it asked who else is writing Linux or 
cross-system applications in PHP, with perhaps some hope of finding out 
where they're discussing it.

So far the answer is "no, we're using stuff we think is easier" with the 
possibility that M. Strobel is also engaged in this bizarre activity 
(though he didn't say yea or nay but commented on its applicability).

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#8250

Am 04.02.2013 17:08, schrieb crankypuss:

> Sometimes it's hard for me to grasp the idea that most people just use whatever is
> sitting on the shelf and would never consider the idea of building something else;
> usually it's at least as difficult for them to grasp the idea that for me
> applications are not half as interesting as the tools that enable them.  See, I don't
> *care* what's available this week for writing standalone apps under PHP, what I
> mostly care about is what the underlying operating system will support reliably and
> what the PHP language itself is capable of.
> 
> The original post didn't ask for someone to help a poor weenie build desktop
> applications in PHP, it asked who else is writing Linux or cross-system applications
> in PHP, with perhaps some hope of finding out where they're discussing it.
> 
> So far the answer is "no, we're using stuff we think is easier" with the possibility
> that M. Strobel is also engaged in this bizarre activity (though he didn't say yea or
> nay but commented on its applicability).

I meant to say you could do it in PHP (build desktop applications), but nobody does
it because of how things evolved.

I am using Tcl/Tk for the desktop and for helpers to web applications, and PHP for
the web.

/Str.

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