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recognize country

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  recognize country nawfer <novalidsforspam@alt.al> - 2013-12-14 14:43 +0100
    Re: recognize country Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-14 08:58 -0500
      Re: recognize country nawfer <novalidsforspam@alt.al> - 2013-12-15 11:16 +0100
        Re: recognize country Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-15 08:37 -0500
    Re: recognize country The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-14 15:27 +0000
    Re: recognize country Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2013-12-14 10:32 -0500
    Re: recognize country Christoph Michael Becker <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2013-12-14 19:55 +0100
      Re: recognize country Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-14 14:52 -0500
        Cross-Posting (was: recognize country) Christoph Michael Becker <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2013-12-14 21:57 +0100
          Re: Cross-Posting Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-14 16:20 -0500
            Re: Cross-Posting Christoph Michael Becker <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2013-12-14 23:25 +0100
              Re: Cross-Posting Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-14 17:36 -0500
          Re: Cross-Posting Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-12-14 22:38 +0100
            Re: Cross-Posting Christoph Michael Becker <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2013-12-14 23:31 +0100
              Re: Cross-Posting Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-12-14 23:55 +0100
                Re: Cross-Posting Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-14 18:08 -0500
                  Re: Cross-Posting Christoph Michael Becker <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2013-12-15 00:35 +0100
                    Re: Cross-Posting Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-12-15 01:13 +0100
    Re: recognize country richard <noreply@example.com> - 2013-12-14 18:56 -0500
      Re: recognize country Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-14 19:09 -0500
        Re: recognize country nawfer <novalidsforspam@alt.al> - 2013-12-15 11:34 +0100
          Re: recognize country "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2013-12-15 11:59 +0100
          Re: recognize country Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-12-15 12:05 +0100
            Re: recognize country Doug Miller <doug_at_milmac_dot_com@example.com> - 2013-12-15 12:51 +0000
            Re: recognize country Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-15 08:49 -0500
          Re: recognize country Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-12-15 13:13 +0000
          Re: recognize country Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-15 08:50 -0500
          Re: recognize country Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-12-15 15:22 +0100
          Re: recognize country The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-15 15:35 +0000
      Re: recognize country Evan Platt <evan@theobvious.espphotography.com.invalid> - 2013-12-14 21:35 -0800
      Re: recognize country Doug Miller <doug_at_milmac_dot_com@example.com> - 2013-12-15 12:42 +0000
      Re: recognize country Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-12-15 15:21 +0000

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#12220 — recognize country

which code to use for send page 
x 
y
z 
depending by user's nation?

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#12221

On 12/14/2013 8:43 AM, nawfer wrote:
> which code to use for send page
> x
> y
> z
> depending by user's nation?
>

How are you going to find the users nation?  IP address is not reliable.

Let's try a different question.  What are you trying to accomplish?


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#12239

Il Sat, 14 Dec 2013 08:58:30 -0500, Jerry Stuckle ha scritto:

> On 12/14/2013 8:43 AM, nawfer wrote:
>> which code to use for send page
>> x
>> y
>> z
>> depending by user's nation?
>>
> 
> How are you going to find the users nation?  IP address is not reliable.
> 
> Let's try a different question.  What are you trying to accomplish?

yes is a double question
how find the users nation
and after
how send relative page

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#12246

On 12/15/2013 5:16 AM, nawfer wrote:
> Il Sat, 14 Dec 2013 08:58:30 -0500, Jerry Stuckle ha scritto:
>
>> On 12/14/2013 8:43 AM, nawfer wrote:
>>> which code to use for send page
>>> x
>>> y
>>> z
>>> depending by user's nation?
>>>
>>
>> How are you going to find the users nation?  IP address is not reliable.
>>
>> Let's try a different question.  What are you trying to accomplish?
>
> yes is a double question
> how find the users nation
> and after
> how send relative page
>

You can't find the user's nation automatically in any even halfway 
reliable way.

But again - what are you trying to accomplish?  Not how should you do 
it.  What's your goal here?


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#12222

On 14/12/13 13:43, nawfer wrote:
> which code to use for send page
> x
> y
> z
> depending by user's nation?
>
almost impossible to RELIABLY detect nation by means of IP address - and 
what about French speakers on holiday in Zululand, anyway?

So mostly let user select a country and set a cookie, or redirect to a 
country specific part of the site.



-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#12223

On Saturday 14 December 2013 08:43, in comp.lang.php, "nawfer"
<novalidsforspam@alt.al> wrote:

> which code to use for send page
> x
> y
> z
> depending by user's nation?

It is not possible to do this *reliably*.

You can /infer/ location (and, thus, country) from the client's IP address
($_SERVER["REMOTE_ADDR"]) and various third-party tools, but this location
is often practically inaccurate, and is theoretically not usable at all.

As for techniques and third-party tools, Let Me Google That For You
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=IP+geolocation

Please note that it *is possible* to have, for instance, an IP address
nominally from a European source, originating from North America, or vice
versa. And, let's not forget tools like Tor, that provide "country-local"
IP addresses for remote systems, by way of an encrypted piping mechanism. 

-- 
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"
PGP public key available upon request

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#12224

nawfer wrote:

> which code to use for send page 
> x 
> y
> z 
> depending by user's nation?
> 

Do you really want to send a specific "page" depending on the visitors
*country*, or do you want to distinguish between different *languages*?
 For the latter you can use the accept-language header[1] sent by the
browser.

[1] <http://tools.ietf.org/search/rfc2616#section-14.4>

And please do not cross-post.

-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#12225

On 12/14/2013 1:55 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
> nawfer wrote:
>
>> which code to use for send page
>> x
>> y
>> z
>> depending by user's nation?
>>
>
> Do you really want to send a specific "page" depending on the visitors
> *country*, or do you want to distinguish between different *languages*?
>   For the latter you can use the accept-language header[1] sent by the
> browser.
>
> [1] <http://tools.ietf.org/search/rfc2616#section-14.4>
>
> And please do not cross-post.
>

Actually, cross-posting is the PREFERRED way of posting to multiple 
(appropriate) newsgroups.  Multi-posting is frowned upon, though.

In this case, both newsgroups he posted to were appropriate for the 
subject (at least based on current information).


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#12226 — Cross-Posting (was: recognize country)

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> On 12/14/2013 1:55 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>>
>> And please do not cross-post.
> 
> Actually, cross-posting is the PREFERRED way of posting to multiple
> (appropriate) newsgroups.  Multi-posting is frowned upon, though.

However, asking a question in multiple newsgroups might easily lead to
separate discussions even when the OP was *cross*-posted, what is not
preferable, IMHO.  And as I do not prefer to (cross-)post to newsgroups
which I am not subscribed to, because I might miss an important reply,
my reply already has split the discussion.

> In this case, both newsgroups he posted to were appropriate for the
> subject (at least based on current information).

Isn't *anything* that is on topic here also on topic in alt.php?

-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#12227 — Re: Cross-Posting

On 12/14/2013 3:57 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>> On 12/14/2013 1:55 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>>>
>>> And please do not cross-post.
>>
>> Actually, cross-posting is the PREFERRED way of posting to multiple
>> (appropriate) newsgroups.  Multi-posting is frowned upon, though.
>
> However, asking a question in multiple newsgroups might easily lead to
> separate discussions even when the OP was *cross*-posted, what is not
> preferable, IMHO.  And as I do not prefer to (cross-)post to newsgroups
> which I am not subscribed to, because I might miss an important reply,
> my reply already has split the discussion.
>

Yes, because YOU changed the posting newsgroup.  Don't change list of 
newsgroups being cross-posted to.

Whether YOU prefer it or not is immaterial.  It is the accepted practice 
on Usenet.  A good description can be found at 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossposting.

>> In this case, both newsgroups he posted to were appropriate for the
>> subject (at least based on current information).
>
> Isn't *anything* that is on topic here also on topic in alt.php?
>

Possibly.  But that's life.  It doesn't mean messages can't be 
cross-posted to both newsgroups.  And whether you read both newsgroups 
or not is also immaterial.  Some people may, for instance, read alt.php 
but not comp.lang.php.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#12229 — Re: Cross-Posting

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> On 12/14/2013 3:57 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/14/2013 1:55 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And please do not cross-post.
>>>
>>> Actually, cross-posting is the PREFERRED way of posting to multiple
>>> (appropriate) newsgroups.  Multi-posting is frowned upon, though.
>>
>> However, asking a question in multiple newsgroups might easily lead to
>> separate discussions even when the OP was *cross*-posted, what is not
>> preferable, IMHO.  And as I do not prefer to (cross-)post to newsgroups
>> which I am not subscribed to, because I might miss an important reply,
>> my reply already has split the discussion.
>>
> 
> Yes, because YOU changed the posting newsgroup.  Don't change list of
> newsgroups being cross-posted to.
> 
> Whether YOU prefer it or not is immaterial.  It is the accepted practice
> on Usenet.  A good description can be found at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossposting.

My apologies -- I wasn't aware that changing the list of newsgroups
being cross-posted to is frowned upon.  Thanks for pointing that out. :)

-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#12231 — Re: Cross-Posting

On 12/14/2013 5:25 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>> On 12/14/2013 3:57 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/14/2013 1:55 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> And please do not cross-post.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, cross-posting is the PREFERRED way of posting to multiple
>>>> (appropriate) newsgroups.  Multi-posting is frowned upon, though.
>>>
>>> However, asking a question in multiple newsgroups might easily lead to
>>> separate discussions even when the OP was *cross*-posted, what is not
>>> preferable, IMHO.  And as I do not prefer to (cross-)post to newsgroups
>>> which I am not subscribed to, because I might miss an important reply,
>>> my reply already has split the discussion.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, because YOU changed the posting newsgroup.  Don't change list of
>> newsgroups being cross-posted to.
>>
>> Whether YOU prefer it or not is immaterial.  It is the accepted practice
>> on Usenet.  A good description can be found at
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossposting.
>
> My apologies -- I wasn't aware that changing the list of newsgroups
> being cross-posted to is frowned upon.  Thanks for pointing that out. :)
>

It's not - if you're removing newsgroups which are no longer appropriate 
(possibly because of the changing nature of the discussion).

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#12228 — Re: Cross-Posting

Christoph Michael Becker wrote:

> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 12/14/2013 1:55 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>>> And please do not cross-post.
>> 
>> Actually, cross-posting is the PREFERRED way of posting to multiple
>> (appropriate) newsgroups.  Multi-posting is frowned upon, though.
> 
> However, asking a question in multiple newsgroups might easily lead to
> separate discussions even when the OP was *cross*-posted, what is not
> preferable, IMHO.  And as I do not prefer to (cross-)post to newsgroups
> which I am not subscribed to, because I might miss an important reply,
> my reply already has split the discussion.

If the Followup-To header field is specified properly, so as to avoid the 
condition you are describing, there is no intrinsic problem with crossposts.  
Mr. Stuckle is correct there.

See also [de] <http://www.liesmal.de/fup2-faq>.
 
>> In this case, both newsgroups he posted to were appropriate for the
>> subject (at least based on current information).
> 
> Isn't *anything* that is on topic here also on topic in alt.php?

In theory, yes.  But there is no alt.php except on Google Groups and similar 
archives, and peculiarly maintained news servers.

The problem with *this* crosspost is that, *and* that alt.ALL – by contrast 
to comp.ALL – does not belong to the Big 8.  Where comp.ALL is order, 
alt.ALL is anarchy; it is therefore a bad idea to crosspost to alt.ALL /and/ 
comp.ALL.  In general, crossposting across hierarchy borders is a bad idea 
for several reasons.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_(Usenet)>


PointedEars
-- 
Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on
a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web,
when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another
computer, another word processor, or another network. -- Tim Berners-Lee

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#12230 — Re: Cross-Posting

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
> 
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 12/14/2013 1:55 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>>>> And please do not cross-post.
>>>
>>> Actually, cross-posting is the PREFERRED way of posting to multiple
>>> (appropriate) newsgroups.  Multi-posting is frowned upon, though.
>>
>> However, asking a question in multiple newsgroups might easily lead to
>> separate discussions even when the OP was *cross*-posted, what is not
>> preferable, IMHO.  And as I do not prefer to (cross-)post to newsgroups
>> which I am not subscribed to, because I might miss an important reply,
>> my reply already has split the discussion.
> 
> If the Followup-To header field is specified properly, so as to avoid the 
> condition you are describing, there is no intrinsic problem with crossposts.  
> Mr. Stuckle is correct there.

Until now, I have used the follow up header only to point the discussion
to an appropriate newsgroup.  Apparently, there are other good uses.
Thanks for pointing that out.

> See also [de] <http://www.liesmal.de/fup2-faq>.

It seems the domain is not accessible (for me); it responds with 403:
Forbidden.

-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#12232 — Re: Cross-Posting

Christoph Michael Becker wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> See also [de] <http://www.liesmal.de/fup2-faq>.
> 
> It seems the domain is not accessible (for me); it responds with 403:
> Forbidden.

WFM.


PointedEars
-- 
    realism:    HTML 4.01 Strict
    evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
    madness:    XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
                                                    -- Bjoern Hoehrmann

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#12233 — Re: Cross-Posting

On 12/14/2013 5:55 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>
>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> See also [de] <http://www.liesmal.de/fup2-faq>.
>>
>> It seems the domain is not accessible (for me); it responds with 403:
>> Forbidden.
>
> WFM.
>
>
> PointedEars
>

I get the same thing Christoph does.  Maybe because we're not in 
Germany?  Or maybe we need a login?


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#12234 — Re: Cross-Posting

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> On 12/14/2013 5:55 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>>
>>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> See also [de] <http://www.liesmal.de/fup2-faq>.
>>>
>>> It seems the domain is not accessible (for me); it responds with 403:
>>> Forbidden.
>>
>> WFM.
> 
> I get the same thing Christoph does.  Maybe because we're not in
> Germany?  Or maybe we need a login?

Well, I am in (and from, by the way) Germany -- however, geolocation
detection might not properly work.

Anyway, the wayback machine got the same response on Dezember 8, 2013[1].

[1]
<http://web.archive.org/web/20131208180148/http://www.liesmal.de/fup2-faq/>

-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#12237 — Re: Cross-Posting

Christoph Michael Becker wrote:

> Jerry Stuckle wrote: 
>> On 12/14/2013 5:55 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Christoph Michael Becker wrote:
>>>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>> See also [de] <http://www.liesmal.de/fup2-faq>.
>>>>
>>>> It seems the domain is not accessible (for me); it responds with 403:
>>>> Forbidden.
>>>
>>> WFM.
>> 
>> I get the same thing Christoph does.  Maybe because we're not in
>> Germany?  Or maybe we need a login?
> 
> Well, I am in (and from, by the way) Germany -- however, geolocation
> detection might not properly work.
> 
> Anyway, the wayback machine got the same response on Dezember 8, 2013[1].

I am in Switzerland, and it WFM in any browser on both GNU/Linux and 
Windows, with clean browser cache, respectively.  There is no login 
required; it is a public FAQ (not by me).

I do not think any geolocation filter is used, because it was written for 
the German-*speaking* Usenet which has participants worldwide.  I suspect it 
might be a User-Agent filter, which would also explain why the Wayback 
machine could not access that resource.

> [1]
> <http://web.archive.org/web/20131208180148/http://www.liesmal.de/fup2-faq/>

Strangely enough, though, Google could access and cache it:

<http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZDR9dnmrgkkJ:www.liesmal.de/fup2-faq/>


F'up2 comp.infosystems.www.authoring.misc

PointedEars
-- 
Prototype.js was written by people who don't know javascript for people
who don't know javascript. People who don't know javascript are not
the best source of advice on designing systems that use javascript.
  -- Richard Cornford, cljs, <f806at$ail$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>

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#12235

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:43:34 +0100, nawfer wrote:

> which code to use for send page 
> x 
> y
> z 
> depending by user's nation?

GeoIP.
This utility reporsts the country based on user's location.
But why not let the user select the proper page wotj a dropdown list?

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#12236

On 12/14/2013 6:56 PM, richard wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:43:34 +0100, nawfer wrote:
>
>> which code to use for send page
>> x
>> y
>> z
>> depending by user's nation?
>
> GeoIP.

Which is just as accurate as any other IP-based location service.  IOW, 
not very.

> This utility reporsts the country based on user's location.
> But why not let the user select the proper page wotj a dropdown list?
>

It all depends on what he's trying to accomplish.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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