Re: PHP CSV

From	Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.php
Subject	Re: PHP CSV
Date	2015-02-04 12:55 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<matmdr$64k$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(14 earlier) <040220151329007325%timstreater@greenbee.net> <mat90n$af9$1@dont-email.me> <54d23d2c$0$2882$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl> <matffs$6go$1@dont-email.me> <54d25193$0$2845$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>

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On 2/4/2015 12:07 PM, Erwin Moller wrote:
> On 2/4/2015 4:57 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 2/4/2015 10:39 AM, Erwin Moller wrote:
>>> On 2/4/2015 3:06 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 2/4/2015 8:29 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>>> In article <mat59b$qn4$1@dont-email.me>, Jerry Stuckle
>>>>> <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/4/2015 7:19 AM, Erwin Moller wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/19/2014 4:59 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> return does not create invalid output.  die() and exit() do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have *never* found a need for either one in a properly
>>>>>>>> constructed
>>>>>>>> script.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I use exit() after a header location combi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if (whatever){
>>>>>>>       dostuff();
>>>>>>>       header("location: ....");
>>>>>>>       exit;
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is an easy way to redirect, and terminate the script, and not
>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>> a (possibly huge) else-part.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you (Jerry) think that that approach isn't properly?
>>>>>>> If so, why?
>>>>>
>>>>>> With a properly constructed script, you don't need to call exit()
>>>>>> after
>>>>>> a header() call, either.
>>>>>
>>>>> I use exit when processing is complete. Sometimes that happens inside
>>>>> an "if" or other construct.
>>>>>
>>>>> I certainly don't intend, ever, to use convoluted if/then/else just so
>>>>> that processing always arrives at the last line of a script.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which terminates processing immediately - and anything after that point
>>>> (such as </BODY> and </HTML> tags is not sent to the browser.  This
>>>> causes an invalid page to be generated.
>>>>
>>>> Do your clients know you're generating invalid HTML for them?
>>>>
>>>
>>> In my above example, the script did something useful in doStuff();
>>> Then, redirects to another page with the header("location: ....").
>>>
>>> I never intended to give the idea my example was outputting HTML to a
>>> browser (but should have said so to avoid confusion).
>>>
>>> I often use PHP to processing some posting/do some task, and when
>>> finished, set  header/location to another page. (That will also avoid
>>> the dreaded back-button/formpost confirmation that confuses most
>>> non-webprogrammers = 99.9% of the world).
>>>
>>> So using exit() seems completely valid to me.
>>>
>>> For clarity's sake: I dislike half-finished HTML too, just like you, and
>>> when the script produces output, it *should* finish the document in a
>>> valid way. No discussion there.
>>>
>>> You just triggered me by your statement that you never use exit(), when
>>> you program properly.
>>> I use exit for the very reason Tim Steater gave: to avoid too much code
>>> into if-then-else constructs, for the sake of finishing at some point at
>>> the end.
>>> IMHO it makes the script less readable.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Erwin Moller
>>>
>>> PS: If in your opinion only MVC is proper programming, than I can see
>>> why you never encounter exit() anymore.
>>>
>>
>> I never do use exit().  There is no need for it, even in your example.
>> Proper code structure eliminates the problem.
> 
> There is no "problem" to eliminate.
> We differ in opinion here: When exit() is used properly (=in a logical
> place), it is all very clear what is going on.
>

You obviously haven't worked on big projects with 20-50 programmers
working for 1-3 years.  Or had to go back and make a change to a program
with 10K+ LOC that isn't well structured.  It can be a huge problem.

>   Structured programming
>> does not make code less readable, if it's done properly.  And it does
>> make the code more maintainable.  You don't have to, for instance, try
>> to analyze a bunch of code to determine why your change did not take
>> effect - because you had already exited the code earlier.
> 
> That totally depends on the place where the exit() is used.
> I often have a bunch of these to process different kinds of situations:
> 
> if (whatever){
>     dostuff();
>     header("location: ....");
>     exit;
> }
> 
> if (whatever2){
>     dostuff2();
>     header("location: ....");
>     exit;
> }
> 
> If you would read through that code, you would surely find the exits
> right away, I am sure.
> 
> But, of course, when the exit() is hidden somewhere horribly deep away,
> in a totally idiotic place, then yes, that would be a problem.
> 
> In my opinion that is matter of programming hygiene.
> 

Yup, and along the same lines:

if (whatever) {
   dostuff();
   header("location: ....");
} elseif (whatever2) {
   dostuff();
   header("location: ....");
}

Clear, concise, and no exit() required

> 
>>
>> I've just seen too many problems in other languages such as C/C++ caused
>> by people not wanting to structure their code properly with if-then-else
>> statements - and the problems it can cause.
>>
> 
> Well, yes.
> C/C++ is really a different beast.
> I use PHP for a reason: ease of programming in a forgiving environment
> (type juggling, no memory allocation, strong array structure/functions,
>  etc).
> 

It's a different beast - but it's still the same structured programming
concepts.  PHP obviously took much of its syntax from C.  And structured
programming has nothing to do with type juggling, memory allocation, etc.

> It is, of course, possible to screw up royally in any language.
> 
> I think I heard that line first from you when I entered usenet, a
> hundred years ago. :-)
> 
> Regards,
> Erwin Moller
> 

Could be.  I've seen a lot of screw-ups in my decades of programming.
And not all were from newbies.  Some were from people who should know
better.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Thread

PHP CSV Joydeep Chakrabarty <chalao.adda@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 17:09 +0530
  Re: PHP CSV Markus Heinz <markus.heinz@uni-dortmund.de> - 2014-12-18 13:11 +0100
    Re: PHP CSV "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-12-18 13:27 +0100
      Re: PHP CSV Joydeep Chakrabarty <chalao.adda@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 18:26 +0530
        Re: PHP CSV Markus Heinz <markus.heinz@uni-dortmund.de> - 2014-12-18 14:43 +0100
          Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-12-18 09:24 -0500
          Re: PHP CSV Joydeep Chakrabarty <chalao.adda@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 20:56 +0530
            Re: PHP CSV Markus Heinz <markus.heinz@uni-dortmund.de> - 2014-12-18 16:57 +0100
              Re: PHP CSV "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-12-18 17:04 +0100
              Re: PHP CSV Joydeep Chakrabarty <chalao.adda@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 21:52 +0530
                Re: PHP CSV Markus Heinz <markus.heinz@uni-dortmund.de> - 2014-12-18 17:38 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Joydeep Chakrabarty <chalao.adda@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 16:49 +0000
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-12-18 21:34 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-12-19 09:43 +0000
                Re: PHP CSV "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-12-19 14:05 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-12-19 10:59 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Matthew Carter <m@ahungry.com> - 2014-12-19 14:21 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-12-19 18:17 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2014-12-20 00:35 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-02-04 13:19 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-04 08:03 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-02-04 13:29 +0000
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-04 09:06 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-02-04 15:26 +0000
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-04 10:40 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Paul Herber <paul@pherber.com> - 2015-02-04 16:11 +0000
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-04 11:23 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-02-04 17:08 +0000
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-04 12:48 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-02-04 17:05 +0000
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-04 12:49 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-02-04 18:14 +0000
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-04 13:37 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Matthew Carter <m@ahungry.com> - 2015-02-04 15:23 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2015-02-04 21:54 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-04 16:32 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-04 16:31 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-02-04 16:39 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-04 10:57 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-02-04 18:07 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-04 12:55 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-02-06 23:26 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2015-02-07 01:38 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-06 19:44 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2015-02-07 14:49 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-02-07 14:28 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-06 19:42 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2015-02-07 04:33 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-02-07 14:26 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2015-02-07 14:45 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-07 08:54 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2015-02-07 16:54 +0100
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-07 11:00 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-02-07 08:51 -0500
                Re: PHP CSV "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2015-02-07 14:55 +0100
        Re: PHP CSV Olaf Schmitt <thesys@gmx.de> - 2014-12-19 01:16 +0100
        Re: PHP CSV Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-12-19 02:14 +0000
    Re: PHP CSV Joydeep Chakrabarty <chalao.adda@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 18:13 +0530
      Re: PHP CSV Derek Turner <frderek@cesmail.net> - 2014-12-18 12:55 +0000
        Re: PHP CSV Joydeep Chakrabarty <chalao.adda@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 18:33 +0530
          Re: PHP CSV Derek Turner <frderek@cesmail.net> - 2014-12-18 13:10 +0000
      Re: PHP CSV Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-12-18 08:17 -0500
      Re: PHP CSV "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-12-18 15:16 +0100

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