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Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example

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On 3/16/14, 6:14 PM, Lew Pitcher wrote:
> On Sunday 16 March 2014 20:12, in comp.lang.php, "Scott Johnson"
> <noonehome@chalupasworld.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/16/14, 2:29 PM, Lew Pitcher wrote:
>>> On Sunday 16 March 2014 16:22, in comp.lang.php, "richard"
>>> <noreply@example.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snipe snipped]
>>>
>>>> The table I have now consists of the following columns.
>>>> songid,hits, title, author, license.
>>>> Please explain how this data should be normalised.
>>>> And why.
>>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, I don't think that you have to normalize your
>>> tables. Your table design seems to work for you. Normalization won't
>>> "fix" anything, because nothing is "broken".
>>
>> Nobody said his DB was broken
>
> Perhaps. I haven't been following every post.
>
> The point is that richard's current design will not, of itself, cause a
> problem. It will, however (as I implied later) be less than optimal.
>
> But, if richard isn't concerned about optimal performance or design, then
> there's nothing that normalization will bring to him.
>
>> rather an effort to....(read next section)
>
> Yes, I'm familiar with the effort. I've "assisted" richard a couple of
> times, and find his design and implementation less than... what I would do.
>
> But, I'm not him.
>
>>> What normalization (and, a proper database design, for that matter)
>>> /will/ do is make data maintenance and manipulation easier and possibly
>>> more efficient. For big datasets, normalization reduces storage costs,
>>> improves data reliability, and makes data manipulation (and the program
>>> development that goes with it) more consistant.
>>>
>>
>> What for the most part most have been trying to explain.  And yes at
>> time it gets in the weeds out of frustration but the foundation has been
>> solid all along.
>>
>>> You seem to need none of these benefits.  So, normalization is not for
>>> you. Perhaps, when your application and database grow larger, you will
>>> see the need for the improvements that database normalization and proper
>>> database design bring.
>>
>> It is when your DB is small that you want to incorporate a normalized
>> design so you can work out exactly what you need before you start having
>> to code and run DB routines to normalize it.
>>
>> Nightmare scenario.
>
> Very true. And, most of the "you need normalization" and "you need to
> redesign your data table structure" comments have been well-meant attempts
> to address that scenario.
>
>> Kind of like saying, don't get health insurance until you are
>> sick....wait.  Never mind
>
> Yup.
>
> Richard has passed on the health insurance. Nothing that we say will change
> his mind. All we are doing is cluttering up an unrelated newsgroup with
> unrequested advice that won't be listened to.
>
> Bottom line: richard's app works to his satisfaction, without a proper
> database design and without database normalization. I think that the
> subject is closed, and it is time to move on.
>
> --30--
>


All Points valid and taken.

Scotty

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Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-03-16 16:22 -0400
  Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Luuk <luuk@invalid.lan> - 2014-03-16 21:54 +0100
    Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-03-16 19:20 -0400
      Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Scott Johnson <noonehome@chalupasworld.com> - 2014-03-16 17:05 -0700
        Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-03-16 21:43 -0400
          Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-17 04:17 +0000
  Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Luuk <luuk@invalid.lan> - 2014-03-16 21:56 +0100
  Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2014-03-16 17:29 -0400
    Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Scott Johnson <noonehome@chalupasworld.com> - 2014-03-16 17:12 -0700
      Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2014-03-16 21:14 -0400
        Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Scott Johnson <noonehome@chalupasworld.com> - 2014-03-16 19:47 -0700
        Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-03-16 22:54 -0400
        Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-03-25 15:28 +0100
      Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Derek Turner <frderek@cesmail.net> - 2014-03-17 09:37 +0000
  Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Doug Miller <doug_at_milmac_dot_com@example.com> - 2014-03-16 21:34 +0000
  Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-03-16 18:02 -0400
    Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-03-16 19:09 -0400
      Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-03-16 21:13 -0400
  Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Geoff Muldoon <geoff.muldoon@trap.gmail.com> - 2014-03-17 10:55 +1100
    Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-03-16 20:13 -0400
      Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Geoff Muldoon <geoff.muldoon@trap.gmail.com> - 2014-03-17 14:54 +1100
  Re: Mr. Stuckle and Mr. Miller - explain normalisation with an example Gabe <usenet@moojuice.net> - 2014-03-17 13:56 +0000

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