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Storing dates (was: Putting it all together)

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Followups directed to: comp.databases.mysql

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[F'up2 comp.databases.mysql

Gordon Burditt wrote in comp.lang.php and comp.databases.mysql:

> [“richard” wrote:]
>> Why would anyone store a date in a MySQL
>> database using any data type other than DATE or DATETIME?
> 
> Believe it or not, there are (very rarely) good reasons to do that.
> 
> Genealogy is one example.  It has lots of dates MySQL won't accept.
> First, some people (such as English royalty) can trace their ancestry
> back before 1000 A.D., before the limit on the DATE type.

ACK.

> Second, MySQL doesn't like imprecise dates, such as only a year being
> known.

This can be solved by setting the unknown parts to 1 and have other fields 
of the record specify the precision.

Also, there is the YEAR type (preferably used as YEAR(4)), but it only has a 
range from 1901 to 2155:

<http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.6/en/year.html>

> Third, during a time when both the Julian and Gregorian calendars
> were in use, depending on location, you often see dates recorded
> as "5 January 1712/13" or "5 January 1712/3".  You might also see
> "5 January 1712".

Same there.
 
> Since the Julian calendar as used in the English colonies that later
> became the United States used March 25 as the first day of the year,
> you can get ridiculous-looking records such as a child born: March
> 27, 1700, died: March 23, 1700 (not a mistake:  the child lived
> almost a full year) and born: March 24, 1700, died: March 25, 1701
> (the child lived about 24 hours).  Also, a date recorded as "the
> 6th day of the third month of 1699" might be referring to March or
> May.
> 
> It may be best to treat all dates (birth, death, marriage, graduation,
> etc.) as ranges.

Depends.

> These should be DATE types for efficient sorting and date arithmetic.

That contradicts your premise that dates could be before 1000-01-01 CE.  It 
is usually the dates of birth and death of people born before that date that 
are uncertain and require ranges.  For example, Plato lived “[from] 428/427 
or 424/423 BC[a] [to] 348/347 BC” (Wikipedia).

> It's also important to record the date(s) as stated in the source(s) as
> originally recorded, complete with accurate reproduction of spelling
> errors and in the original language, in text fields (or perhaps as an
> image).  This is not redundant. You may have to do considerable research
> to set the DATE fields from the original source data that may be
> conflicting, imprecise, or ambiguous.

ACK.  But that information should be stored in separate columns.

> You might need to try extening the Gregorian calendar backwards to avoid
> death before birth and other anomalies.

It has been done before.  MySQL already does it, not least because the first 
day of the Gregorian calendar is _not_ 0001-01-01 CE, but 1582-10-15 CE.  

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar#Proleptic_Gregorian_calendar>

This has nothing to do with PHP anymore.  Please stop crossposting (without 
F'up2).


PointedEars
-- 
Sometimes, what you learn is wrong. If those wrong ideas are close to the 
root of the knowledge tree you build on a particular subject, pruning the 
bad branches can sometimes cause the whole tree to collapse.
  -- Mike Duffy in cljs, <news:Xns9FB6521286DB8invalidcom@94.75.214.39>

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Thread

Putting it all together richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-20 10:20 -0400
  Re: Putting it all together Evan Platt <evan@theobvious.espphotography.com.invalid> - 2014-06-20 08:11 -0700
    Re: Putting it all together richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-20 11:24 -0400
      Re: Putting it all together Doug Miller <doug_at_milmac_dot_com@example.com> - 2014-06-20 17:15 +0000
      Re: Putting it all together Evan Platt <evan@theobvious.espphotography.com.invalid> - 2014-06-20 20:01 -0700
  Re: Putting it all together Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-20 08:21 -0700
  Re: Putting it all together Norman Peelman <npeelman@cfl.rr.com> - 2014-06-20 21:06 -0400
  Re: Putting it all together Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-06-21 03:02 +0000
  Re: Putting it all together Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-06-21 03:09 +0000
  Re: Putting it all together Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-20 20:13 -0700
    Re: Putting it all together richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-20 23:34 -0400
      Re: Putting it all together Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-20 20:48 -0700
      Re: Putting it all together Evan Platt <evan@theobvious.espphotography.com.invalid> - 2014-06-20 21:00 -0700
      Re: Putting it all together Doug Miller <doug_at_milmac_dot_com@example.com> - 2014-06-21 04:22 +0000
        Re: Putting it all together Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-20 22:11 -0700
          Re: Putting it all together Evan Platt <evan@theobvious.espphotography.com.invalid> - 2014-06-20 22:39 -0700
        Re: Putting it all together gordonb.zp2md@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-06-21 04:15 -0500
          Storing dates (was: Putting it all together) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-06-21 12:15 +0200
            Re: Storing dates richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-21 11:10 -0400
              Re: Storing dates Doug Miller <doug_at_milmac_dot_com@example.com> - 2014-06-21 17:42 +0000
                Re: Storing dates richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-21 14:28 -0400
                Re: Storing dates Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-21 12:04 -0700
                Re: Storing dates Doug Miller <doug_at_milmac_dot_com@example.com> - 2014-06-21 19:06 +0000
                Re: Storing dates Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-21 22:06 +0100
                Re: Storing dates Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-06-21 17:09 -0400
                Re: Storing dates Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-21 22:33 +0100
                Re: Storing dates Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-06-21 17:49 -0400
                Re: Storing dates Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-06-22 14:38 +0200
                Re: Storing dates Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-21 14:31 -0700
                Re: Storing dates Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-06-21 22:44 +0100
                Re: Storing dates Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-06-22 14:59 +0200
                Re: Storing dates Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-06-21 23:19 +0000
                Re: Storing dates Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-22 08:53 +0200
                Re: Storing dates "Erick T. Barkhuis" <erick.use-net@ardane.c.o.m> - 2014-06-22 08:03 +0000
                Re: Storing dates Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-06-22 09:29 -0400
                Re: Storing dates "Erick T. Barkhuis" <erick.use-net@ardane.c.o.m> - 2014-06-22 14:24 +0000
                Re: Storing dates Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2014-06-22 10:32 -0400
                Re: Storing dates "Erick T. Barkhuis" <erick.use-net@ardane.c.o.m> - 2014-06-22 14:45 +0000
                Re: Storing dates Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-06-22 19:44 +0000
                Re: Storing dates Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-22 08:26 -0700
                Re: Storing dates gordonb.q26od@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-06-22 10:00 -0500
                Re: Storing dates Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-22 16:47 +0200
                Re: Storing dates richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-22 13:55 -0400
                Re: Storing dates Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-22 12:31 -0700
                Re: Storing dates Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-06-24 22:27 +0200
                Re: Storing dates Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-06-22 19:52 +0000
                Re: Storing dates Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-22 21:52 +0200
                Re: Storing dates richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-22 14:05 -0400
                Re: Storing dates Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-22 21:56 +0200
                Re: Storing dates richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-22 22:46 -0400
                Re: Storing dates Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-23 08:11 +0200
                Re: Storing dates richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-23 02:37 -0400
                Re: Storing dates Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-23 11:10 +0200
                Re: Storing dates Evan Platt <evan@theobvious.espphotography.com.invalid> - 2014-06-23 06:50 -0700
                Re: Storing dates richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-23 11:13 -0400
                Re: Storing dates Evan Platt <evan@theobvious.espphotography.com.invalid> - 2014-06-23 09:13 -0700
                Re: Storing dates Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-23 22:33 +0200
                Re: Storing dates richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-22 23:04 -0400
                Re: Storing dates Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-23 08:12 +0200
                Re: Storing dates Geoff Muldoon <geoff.muldoon@trap.gmail.com> - 2014-06-23 16:45 +1000
                Re: Storing dates richard <noreply@example.com> - 2014-06-23 07:58 -0400
                Re: Storing dates Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-23 09:50 -0700
                Re: Storing dates Christoph Michael Becker <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2014-06-23 19:02 +0200
                Re: Storing dates Geoff Muldoon <geoff.muldoon@trap.gmail.com> - 2014-06-24 12:00 +1000
                Re: Storing dates Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-06-24 22:38 +0200
                Re: Storing dates Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-22 15:30 -0700
                Re: Storing dates "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2014-06-22 20:10 -0500
          Re: Putting it all together Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2014-06-21 03:34 -0700
      Re: Putting it all together Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-06-21 10:23 +0000
      Re: Putting it all together bill <william@TechServSys.com> - 2014-06-21 07:03 -0400
        Re: Putting it all together Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-06-21 15:11 +0000
      Re: Putting it all together "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2014-06-21 10:57 -0500
      Re: Putting it all together Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2014-06-22 08:45 +0200

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