Re: Nasty language semantics

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Message-ID	<3103701.jcOgjVbhT3@PointedEars.de> (permalink)
From	Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Reply-To	Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <php@PointedEars.de>
Organization	PointedEars Software (PES)
Date	Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:29:10 +0200
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Subject	Re: Nasty language semantics
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August Karlstrom wrote:

> On 2011-07-18 17:55, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> August Karlstrom wrote:
>>> Don't be silly. There are several programming languages in which `='
>>> denote (surprise) equality.
>> And I have found all programs written in any of those programming
>> languages to be more difficult to maintain than the rest.  One such
>> language is VBScript (which is particularly bad designed in other
>> respects as well).
> 
> That's because they have been badly designed in other respects as you
> mention.

NAK.

>> I would always consider it a result of bad language design for a
>> (built-in) operator to have such very different meanings.
> 
> Agreed. The assignment symbol should ideally be a left arrow

NAK.  As was said before, this is programming, not math.

> but as we all know it is not available on a standard keyboard or in the
> ASCII character set. I think `:=' is a reasonable alternative.

So are `=', `==' and `===', if only for keeping the well-established C 
tradition (which makes it easier to learn yet another programming language, 
mind you).

But there is another option: a compiler could disallow or warn about 
assignment in conditional expressions if it was not obvious that this was 
intended (as indicated by another pair of parentheses around the 
assignment).  AFAIK, the Java compiler (javac) and the Mozilla JavaScript 
Validator include a switch to generate a warning.  PHP's JIT-compiler SHOULD 
also do this with the E_WARNING or E_COMPILE_WARNING bits set (but PHP 
5.3.3-7+squeeze3 with Suhosin-Patch (cli) does not.)

PointedEars
-- 
var bugRiddenCrashPronePieceOfJunk = (
    navigator.userAgent.indexOf('MSIE 5') != -1
    && navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Mac') != -1
)  // Plone, register_function.js:16

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error message I don understand "liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com" <liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com> - 2011-07-15 14:38 +0000
  Re: error message I don understand Billy Mays <81282ed9a88799d21e77957df2d84bd6514d9af6@myhashismyemail.com> - 2011-07-15 10:44 -0400
    Re: error message I don understand "liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com" <liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com> - 2011-07-15 17:26 +0000
      Re: error message I don understand The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-15 18:45 +0100
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              Re: error message I don understand "liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com" <liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com> - 2011-07-16 09:17 +0000
                Re: error message I don understand The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-16 13:52 +0100
              Re: error message I don understand Heinrich Käsner <heinkasner@gmail.com> - 2011-08-02 07:02 -0700
          Re: error message I don understand The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-15 21:35 +0100
          Re: error message I don understand Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-07-16 09:30 -0400
            Re: error message I don understand "liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com" <liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com> - 2011-07-16 19:14 +0000
              Re: error message I don understand The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-16 22:18 +0100
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  Re: error message I don understand Denis McMahon <denis.m.f.mcmahon@gmail.com> - 2011-07-16 19:28 +0000
    Re: error message I don understand "liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com" <liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com> - 2011-07-17 08:21 +0000
      Re: error message I don understand Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-07-17 11:10 +0200
        Re: error message I don understand The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-17 10:20 +0100
          Re: error message I don understand Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-07-17 09:01 -0400
        Re: error message I don understand Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-07-17 09:00 -0400
          Re: error message I don understand Denis McMahon <denis.m.f.mcmahon@gmail.com> - 2011-07-17 14:53 +0000
            Re: error message I don understand dougatmilmacdotcom@example.com (Doug Miller) - 2011-07-17 16:26 +0000
            Re: error message I don understand "liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com" <liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com> - 2011-07-18 16:11 +0000
        Re: error message I don understand Denis McMahon <denis.m.f.mcmahon@gmail.com> - 2011-07-17 14:52 +0000
          Re: error message I don understand Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-07-18 17:19 +0200
            Re: error message I don understand The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-18 17:01 +0100
        Re: error message I don understand "liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com" <liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com> - 2011-07-18 16:07 +0000
          Re: error message I don understand Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-07-18 18:27 +0200
            Re: error message I don understand "liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com" <liebling.kreuzberg@gmail.com> - 2011-07-18 20:12 +0000
  Re: error message I don understand August Karlstrom <fusionfile@gmail.com> - 2011-07-17 14:55 +0200
    Re: error message I don understand Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-07-17 09:03 -0400
      Re: error message I don understand August Karlstrom <fusionfile@gmail.com> - 2011-07-17 16:50 +0200
        Re: error message I don understand Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-07-17 12:26 -0400
        Re: error message I don understand "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2011-07-17 11:31 -0500
          Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) August Karlstrom <fusionfile@gmail.com> - 2011-07-17 19:47 +0200
            Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-07-17 14:12 -0400
            Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2011-07-17 13:26 -0500
            Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2011-07-17 20:23 +0100
              Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-17 20:50 +0100
                Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2011-07-17 15:17 -0500
                Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-17 21:21 +0100
                Re: Nasty language semantics Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-07-18 18:17 +0200
                Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2011-07-17 23:06 +0100
                Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) August Karlstrom <fusionfile@gmail.com> - 2011-07-18 00:48 +0200
                Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-07-17 19:23 -0400
                Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) August Karlstrom <fusionfile@gmail.com> - 2011-07-18 01:51 +0200
                Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-07-17 21:18 -0400
                Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2011-07-18 09:22 +0100
                Re: Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2011-07-18 10:57 -0500
        Re: error message I don understand Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-07-18 17:55 +0200
          Nasty language semantics (Was: error message I don understand) August Karlstrom <fusionfile@gmail.com> - 2011-07-18 20:31 +0200
            Re: Nasty language semantics Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-07-18 21:29 +0200

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