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Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check?

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  Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-05-02 11:56 -0700
    Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-05-02 22:57 -0700
      Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-05-03 04:10 -0700
        Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-05-03 11:42 -0700
          Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-05-04 05:26 -0700
    Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2019-05-03 09:08 +0200
      Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-05-03 04:11 -0700
        Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2019-05-03 15:38 +0200
          Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-05-03 11:39 -0700
            Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? Flng Fck <nothanks@invalid.invalid> - 2019-05-06 09:28 +0200
              Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-05-06 02:36 -0700
                Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? Flng Fck <nothanks@invalid.invalid> - 2019-05-06 12:31 +0200
                Re: Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check? "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2019-05-06 22:20 +0200

#36549 — Opera browser, localisation of toLocaleString and of spell-check?

I have three Windows 10 PCs, with Opera 60.0 update done today.
Opera and Windows are set, as far as I know possible, for UK
and for ISO 8601 date and time, YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss 24-hr.

In one PC, using Opera, new Date().toLocaleString() gives a British
date and 24-hour clock, :-) .  In the others, it gives a US date
and AM/PM clock, :-( .

How do I rectify that?

Also, Opera in each of them is set for English display, and I
see that I can change it to American.  But in each of them the
spelling checker is American & cannot be changed by me - a
one-option setting.  Presumably, I think, an English dictionary
needs to be installed for Opera (and, IIRC, Chrome) ... How?

-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google Groups.           |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#36552

On Thursday, May 2, 2019 at 1:56:18 PM UTC-5, dr.j.r...@gmail.com wrote:
> I have three Windows 10 PCs, with Opera 60.0 update done today.
> Opera and Windows are set, as far as I know possible, for UK
> and for ISO 8601 date and time, YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss 24-hr.
> 
> In one PC, using Opera, new Date().toLocaleString() gives a British
> date and 24-hour clock, :-) .  In the others, it gives a US date
> and AM/PM clock, :-( .
> 
> How do I rectify that?
> 
> Also, Opera in each of them is set for English display, and I
> see that I can change it to American.  But in each of them the
> spelling checker is American & cannot be changed by me - a
> one-option setting.  Presumably, I think, an English dictionary
> needs to be installed for Opera (and, IIRC, Chrome) ... How?


Have you tried any of the options?

<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Date/toLocaleString>

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#36556

On Friday, 3 May 2019 06:57:35 UTC+1, Michael Haufe (TNO)  wrote:
> On Thursday, May 2, 2019 at 1:56:18 PM UTC-5, dr.j.r...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I have three Windows 10 PCs, with Opera 60.0 update done today.
> > Opera and Windows are set, as far as I know possible, for UK
> > and for ISO 8601 date and time, YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss 24-hr.
> > 
> > In one PC, using Opera, new Date().toLocaleString() gives a British
> > date and 24-hour clock, :-) .  In the others, it gives a US date
> > and AM/PM clock, :-( .
> > 
> > How do I rectify that?
> > 
> > Also, Opera in each of them is set for English display, and I
> > see that I can change it to American.  But in each of them the
> > spelling checker is American & cannot be changed by me - a
> > one-option setting.  Presumably, I think, an English dictionary
> > needs to be installed for Opera (and, IIRC, Chrome) ... How?
> 
> 
> Have you tried any of the options?
> 
> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Date/toLocaleString>


That is the Mozilla site, and, as far as I can see, that page
says nothing about how to adjust a copy of Opera so that its
default format for toLocaleString is as desired for any
JavaScript-containing page whatsoever.

But I did not know about "tamldec", and I might, for fun, insert
a Tamil-digits date into the page - I can do that semi-secretly,
so as not to confuse non-Tamil readers.


-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google Groups.           |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#36565

dr.j.r...@gmail.com wrote:
> Michael Haufe (TNO)  wrote:
> > dr.j.r...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > I have three Windows 10 PCs, with Opera 60.0 update done today.
> > > Opera and Windows are set, as far as I know possible, for UK
> > > and for ISO 8601 date and time, YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss 24-hr.
> > > 
> > > In one PC, using Opera, new Date().toLocaleString() gives a British
> > > date and 24-hour clock, :-) .  In the others, it gives a US date
> > > and AM/PM clock, :-( .
> > > 
> > > How do I rectify that?
> > > 
> > > Also, Opera in each of them is set for English display, and I
> > > see that I can change it to American.  But in each of them the
> > > spelling checker is American & cannot be changed by me - a
> > > one-option setting.  Presumably, I think, an English dictionary
> > > needs to be installed for Opera (and, IIRC, Chrome) ... How?
> > 
> > 
> > Have you tried any of the options?
> > 
> > <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Date/toLocaleString>
> 
> 
> That is the Mozilla site, and, as far as I can see, that page
> says nothing about how to adjust a copy of Opera so that its
> default format for toLocaleString is as desired for any
> JavaScript-containing page whatsoever.

The Mozilla website is now the accepted community wiki for Web Development [1]. What I was implying is that you should explicitly specify the locale and other options if you need a different display format.

If you are saying that you still want to override what the default implementation is, you should verify that the locale settings of the operating system is set appropriately. Also, Opera's settings have a Language setting you can verify in addition

> But I did not know about "tamldec", and I might, for fun, insert
> a Tamil-digits date into the page - I can do that semi-secretly,
> so as not to confuse non-Tamil readers.

So, you do not own these three machines? Are they part of a Group Policy at a work place?

[1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/technology/browser-makers-agree-to-move-web-documentation-to-mozillas-portal/

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#36570

On Friday, 3 May 2019 19:42:22 UTC+1, Michael Haufe (TNO)  wrote:
> dr.j.r...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Michael Haufe (TNO)  wrote:
> > > dr.j.r...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > I have three Windows 10 PCs, with Opera 60.0 update done today.
> > > > Opera and Windows are set, as far as I know possible, for UK
> > > > and for ISO 8601 date and time, YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss 24-hr.
> > > > 
> > > > In one PC, using Opera, new Date().toLocaleString() gives a British
> > > > date and 24-hour clock, :-) .  In the others, it gives a US date
> > > > and AM/PM clock, :-( .
> > > > 
> > > > How do I rectify that?
> > > > 
> > > > Also, Opera in each of them is set for English display, and I
> > > > see that I can change it to American.  But in each of them the
> > > > spelling checker is American & cannot be changed by me - a
> > > > one-option setting.  Presumably, I think, an English dictionary
> > > > needs to be installed for Opera (and, IIRC, Chrome) ... How?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Have you tried any of the options?
> > > 
> > > <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Date/toLocaleString>
> > 
> > 
> > That is the Mozilla site, and, as far as I can see, that page
> > says nothing about how to adjust a copy of Opera so that its
> > default format for toLocaleString is as desired for any
> > JavaScript-containing page whatsoever.
> 
> The Mozilla website is now the accepted community wiki for Web
> Development [1]. What I was implying is that you should explicitly
> specify the locale and other options if you need a different
> display format.

I don't actually want a _different_ format; I want the same default
format from toLocaleString on all three of my "Opera 60 in
Windows 10 pro systems", all of which are set, wherever I can find,
to British English, UK settings, modified to ISO 8601 date/time.
The computers have differing histories.

 
> If you are saying that you still want to override what the default
> implementation is, you should verify that the locale settings of the
> operating system is set appropriately. Also, Opera's settings have a
> Language setting you can verify in addition.

I've done all relevant settings that I can find from the menus.


> > But I did not know about "tamldec", and I might, for fun, insert
> > a Tamil-digits date into the page - I can do that semi-secretly,
> > so as not to confuse non-Tamil readers.
> 
> So, you do not own these three machines? Are they part of a
> Group Policy at a work place?

I own all three, at home, and got them from the same small supplier
(two purchased, one as a gift).  They were, at different times and
places, not all by the same person, converted from Windows 7 to
Windows 10.


-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google Groups.           |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#36553

dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com wrote on 02 May 2019 in comp.lang.javascript:

> I have three Windows 10 PCs, with Opera 60.0 update done today.
> Opera and Windows are set, as far as I know possible, for UK
> and for ISO 8601 date and time, YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss 24-hr.
> 
> In one PC, using Opera, new Date().toLocaleString() gives a British
> date and 24-hour clock, :-) .  In the others, it gives a US date
> and AM/PM clock, :-( .
> 
> How do I rectify that?

Do not use these browser and locale dependent nonsense,
not in JS, not in VBS, not etc.,
and build your own date/time strings from scratch.

I just copy such scratch-functions from script to script,
and adapt them at will.

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#36557

On Friday, 3 May 2019 08:08:38 UTC+1, Evertjan.  wrote:
> JRS wrote on 02 May 2019 in comp.lang.javascript:
> 
> > I have three Windows 10 PCs, with Opera 60.0 update done today.
> > Opera and Windows are set, as far as I know possible, for UK
> > and for ISO 8601 date and time, YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss 24-hr.
> > 
> > In one PC, using Opera, new Date().toLocaleString() gives a British
> > date and 24-hour clock, :-) .  In the others, it gives a US date
> > and AM/PM clock, :-( .
> > 
> > How do I rectify that?
> 
> Do not use these browser and locale dependent nonsense,
> not in JS, not in VBS, not etc.,
> and build your own date/time strings from scratch.
> 
> I just copy such scratch-functions from script to script,
> and adapt them at will.

The Web is not a write-only medium, and even assiduous authors
sometimes find it necessary to read pages written by the
incompletely enlightened.  So I want each of my browsers to work
in the same way on each of my PCs (and, if possible, to work
correctly).

I have many such functions in include files, such as INC-DATE.JS,
as you may remember.  But here I don't want to use include files;
I want to be able to send the page that I am writing by E-mail as
an attachment, and one which will not need to have auxiliary stuff
sent as well.  So, after writing the page with my standard
auxiliary *.JS and *.CSS files, I have incorporated the small
amount of JS and CSS needed within the page itself.  I can do the
same with the date functions.

- - - 

Here's a thought : Given any all-numeric date+time string with
separated fields, one can usually, but not always, identify at
sight which field is which.

If it is known that a string represents the date+time 2001-02-03
04:05:06, one can always identify the fields by their final
digits.  One can easily generate a Date Object with that value,
GMT or LCT, from new Date(0) by numerically setting the fields.
So one can now, by RegExps, generate from that Date Object a
string containing (not necessarily only) the digits 123456
representing the field order.  One should be able to use that to
cause a RegExp to rearrange the date+time supplied into ISO order;
and that means that one can do the same with that digit string to
rearrange any string of the original format into the proper order.
It is the penultimate step which currently eludes me.

Note : I do not need the answer, but it would be nice to have it.


-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google Groups.           |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#36562

dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com wrote on 03 May 2019 in comp.lang.javascript:

> On Friday, 3 May 2019 08:08:38 UTC+1, Evertjan.  wrote:
>> JRS wrote on 02 May 2019 in comp.lang.javascript:
>> 
>> > I have three Windows 10 PCs, with Opera 60.0 update done today.
>> > Opera and Windows are set, as far as I know possible, for UK
>> > and for ISO 8601 date and time, YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss 24-hr.
>> > 
>> > In one PC, using Opera, new Date().toLocaleString() gives a British
>> > date and 24-hour clock, :-) .  In the others, it gives a US date
>> > and AM/PM clock, :-( .
>> > 
>> > How do I rectify that?
>> 
>> Do not use these browser and locale dependent nonsense,
>> not in JS, not in VBS, not etc.,
>> and build your own date/time strings from scratch.
>> 
>> I just copy such scratch-functions from script to script,
>> and adapt them at will.
> 
> The Web is not a write-only medium, and even assiduous authors
> sometimes find it necessary to read pages written by the
> incompletely enlightened.  So I want each of my browsers to work
> in the same way on each of my PCs (and, if possible, to work
> correctly).
> 
> I have many such functions in include files, such as INC-DATE.JS,
> as you may remember.  But here I don't want to use include files;
> I want to be able to send the page that I am writing by E-mail as
> an attachment, and one which will not need to have auxiliary stuff
> sent as well.  So, after writing the page with my standard
> auxiliary *.JS and *.CSS files, I have incorporated the small
> amount of JS and CSS needed within the page itself.  I can do the
> same with the date functions.

Well, methinks you cannot weapon yourself against yet unknown bad pages.

> Here's a thought : Given any all-numeric date+time string with
> separated fields, one can usually, but not always, identify at
> sight which field is which.

So what about 03/05/2019 and 05/03/2019 ?

And 19/03/05 ?

And what zone is '17:28 +02:00 GMT' ?
 
> If it is known 

Well, I submit it is not.

> that a string represents the date+time 2001-02-03
> 04:05:06, one can always identify the fields by their final
> digits.  One can easily generate a Date Object with that value,
> GMT or LCT, from new Date(0) by numerically setting the fields.
> So one can now, by RegExps, generate from that Date Object a
> string containing (not necessarily only) the digits 123456
> representing the field order.  One should be able to use that to
> cause a RegExp to rearrange the date+time supplied into ISO order;
> and that means that one can do the same with that digit string to
> rearrange any string of the original format into the proper order.
> It is the penultimate step which currently eludes me.
> 
> Note : I do not need the answer, but it would be nice to have it.

Yes, when you understand the specific ludicrous idea's of the distant 
scripter, regex can help you out, I presume. Otherwise you have to trust 
your runtime instinct or allow your code to make an even bigger mess than 
the original mess.

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#36564

On Friday, 3 May 2019 14:38:31 UTC+1, Evertjan.  wrote:
> JRS wrote on 03 May 2019 in comp.lang.javascript:
> 
> > On Friday, 3 May 2019 08:08:38 UTC+1, Evertjan.  wrote:
> >> JRS wrote on 02 May 2019 in comp.lang.javascript:
> >> 
> >> > I have three Windows 10 PCs, with Opera 60.0 update done today.
> >> > Opera and Windows are set, as far as I know possible, for UK
> >> > and for ISO 8601 date and time, YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss 24-hr.
> >> > 
> >> > In one PC, using Opera, new Date().toLocaleString() gives a British
> >> > date and 24-hour clock, :-) .  In the others, it gives a US date
> >> > and AM/PM clock, :-( .
> >> > 
> >> > How do I rectify that?
> >> 
> >> Do not use these browser and locale dependent nonsense,
> >> not in JS, not in VBS, not etc.,
> >> and build your own date/time strings from scratch.
> >> 
> >> I just copy such scratch-functions from script to script,
> >> and adapt them at will.
> > 
> > The Web is not a write-only medium, and even assiduous authors
> > sometimes find it necessary to read pages written by the
> > incompletely enlightened.  So I want each of my browsers to work
> > in the same way on each of my PCs (and, if possible, to work
> > correctly).
> > 
> > I have many such functions in include files, such as INC-DATE.JS,
> > as you may remember.  But here I don't want to use include files;
> > I want to be able to send the page that I am writing by E-mail as
> > an attachment, and one which will not need to have auxiliary stuff
> > sent as well.  So, after writing the page with my standard
> > auxiliary *.JS and *.CSS files, I have incorporated the small
> > amount of JS and CSS needed within the page itself.  I can do the
> > same with the date functions.
> 
> Well, methinks you cannot weapon yourself against yet unknown bad pages.
> 
> > Here's a thought : Given any all-numeric date+time string with
> > separated fields, one can usually, but not always, identify at
> > sight which field is which.
> 
> So what about 03/05/2019 and 05/03/2019 ?

I wrote "usually, but not always".

> And 19/03/05 ?
> 
> And what zone is '17:28 +02:00 GMT' ?

"GMT" is neither numeric nor a separator.  One cannot tell the intended Time Zone as properly defined; from the "GMT" it could be that of Greenwich or that of the Azores, I think, and from the "+02:00" it could be two Time Zones to the East (West??).  Also, "+" is not a separator.
 
> > If it is known 
> 
> Well, I submit it is not.

You should have read further before writing that.  One can
CREATE, in author's code, various strings which undoubtedly,
in the opinion of the browser,
represent a specific chosen date+time, GMT or LCT, unless there is
a serious fault in the Date Object and/or its basic routines.
(The last Safari for Windows had such a fault, appearing to
contain in the code a 3 where a 4 should have been.)

> > that a string represents the date+time 2001-02-03
> > 04:05:06, one can always identify the fields by their final
> > digits.  One can easily generate a Date Object with that value,
> > GMT or LCT, from new Date(0) by numerically setting the fields.

Or by using new Date(981173106000) which generates a Date Object
representing that date/time in UTC.

> > So one can now, by RegExps, generate from that Date Object a
> > string containing (not necessarily only) the digits 123456
> > representing the field order.  One should be able to use that to
> > cause a RegExp to rearrange the date+time supplied into ISO order;
> > and that means that one can do the same with that digit string to
> > rearrange any string of the original format into the proper order.
> > It is the penultimate step which currently eludes me.
> > 
> > Note : I do not need the answer, but it would be nice to have it.


-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google Groups.           |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#36578

Il 03/05/2019 20:39, dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com ha scritto:
>
>> And what zone is '17:28 +02:00 GMT' ?


> "GMT" is neither numeric nor a separator.  One cannot tell the intended Time Zone as properly defined; from the "GMT" it could be that of Greenwich or that of the Azores, I think, and from the "+02:00" it could be two Time Zones to the East (West??).  Also, "+" is not a separator.


GMT+2 is in the middle east: Rome is GMT+1, Tel Aviv is GMT+2

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#36579

On Monday, 6 May 2019 08:28:51 UTC+1, Flng Fck  wrote:
> Il 03/05/2019 20:39, JRS ha scritto:
> >
> >> And what zone is '17:28 +02:00 GMT' ?
> 
> 
> > "GMT" is neither numeric nor a separator.  One cannot tell the intended Time Zone as properly defined; from the "GMT" it could be that of Greenwich or that of the Azores, I think, and from the "+02:00" it could be two Time Zones to the East (West??).  Also, "+" is not a separator.
> 
> 
> GMT+2 is in the middle east: Rome is GMT+1, Tel Aviv is GMT+2

Of course (roughly).  GMT+2 contains the Middle East; but the Middle
East does not contain GMT+2, but only part of it.

Rome is in the true Time Zone GMT+1; but in Summer Time it is on
the Microsoft /et al/ time zone GMT+2.

EjH's '17:28 +02:00 GMT' might have an intended meaning; but it is
improperly formed, and is best considered as a bludner.

-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google Groups.           |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#36580

Il 06/05/2019 11:36, dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com ha scritto:
>
>> GMT+2 is in the middle east: Rome is GMT+1, Tel Aviv is GMT+2
>>

> Of course (roughly).  GMT+2 contains the Middle East; but the Middle
> East does not contain GMT+2, but only part of it.

That's why I wrote "is IN the Middle East"

> Rome is in the true Time Zone GMT+1; but in Summer Time it is on
> the Microsoft /et al/ time zone GMT+2.
>
> EjH's '17:28 +02:00 GMT' might have an intended meaning; but it is
> improperly formed, and is best considered as a bludner.


One thing is sure: '17:28 +02:00 GMT' is not a zone, it's a time and not 
even a precise one, just for the DST issue

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#36581

dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com wrote on 06 May 2019 in comp.lang.javascript:

> EjH's '17:28 +02:00 GMT' might have an intended meaning; but it is
> improperly formed, and is best considered as a bludner.

Don't know what a bludner is, but I would say, that its just the point, 
that those strings are inconsistent with primary logic.

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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