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Groups > comp.lang.javascript > #34414 > unrolled thread

new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale

Started byDr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org>
First post2017-12-31 09:57 -0800
Last post2018-01-25 13:33 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 84 — 11 participants

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  new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2017-12-31 09:57 -0800
    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-12-31 20:48 +0100
      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale JJ <jj4public@vfemail.net> - 2018-01-02 04:41 +0700
        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-01 23:37 +0100
        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-03 02:25 +0100
          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-03 12:55 +0100
          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-04 04:02 -0800
            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Martin Honnen <martin.honnen@gmx.de> - 2018-01-04 13:30 +0100
            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-04 16:48 +0100
    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-06 13:02 -0200
      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-06 11:18 -0800
        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-07 13:07 -0200
          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-07 12:19 -0800
            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-08 11:43 +0000
              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-08 13:26 +0100
                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-08 16:36 +0000
              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-08 06:09 -0800
                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-08 16:33 +0000
                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-08 18:58 +0000
                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-08 19:33 +0000
                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-08 20:26 +0000
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-08 22:10 +0100
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-09 02:55 +0100
                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-09 09:36 +0100
                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-09 02:10 +0100
                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-09 03:35 +0000
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-09 15:51 +1100
                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-09 13:17 +0000
                            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-09 14:44 +0100
                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-09 14:13 +0000
                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-10 17:28 +1100
                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-10 21:01 +0100
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-10 21:00 +0000
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-09 13:19 +0100
                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-20 08:43 -0800
                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-21 15:09 +0000
                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-21 17:25 +0100
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-21 16:41 +0000
                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-21 19:15 +0100
                            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-21 18:56 +0000
                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-21 21:58 +0100
                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-21 23:03 +0000
                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-22 10:41 +0100
                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-22 11:17 -0200
                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-22 14:23 +0000
                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-23 03:50 +0100
                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-23 04:41 +0000
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-23 08:55 +0100
                                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-23 14:44 +0000
                                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-23 20:04 +0100
                                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-23 23:10 +0000
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2018-01-23 08:44 +0000
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-23 03:24 -0800
                                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2018-01-23 13:27 -0800
                                        Zulu time (was: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-24 00:44 +0100
                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-24 01:37 -0200
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-24 04:57 +0100
                                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-24 04:10 +0000
                                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-24 10:19 -0200
                                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-25 08:20 +0100
                                            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2018-01-25 10:26 +0000
                                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-25 14:26 +0000
                                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-26 15:42 +1100
                                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-26 11:19 +0100
                                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-27 07:16 +1100
                                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-26 23:22 +0100
                                                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-27 10:33 +1100
                                                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-27 11:30 +0100
                                                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-28 07:38 +1100
                                                            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-27 23:47 +0100
                                                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-28 10:07 +1100
                                                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-28 01:14 +0000
                                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-28 05:25 +0100
                                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-28 16:07 +1100
                                                    [OT] Fallacies (was: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-28 07:18 +0100
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2018-01-24 13:51 +0000
                                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-24 17:13 -0200
                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-23 03:00 -0800
                            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-23 14:14 +0000
                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-23 15:44 +0100
                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-23 04:24 -0800
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-23 14:29 +0000
    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-23 03:19 -0800
    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-25 13:33 -0800

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#34414 — new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale

FromDr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org>
Date2017-12-31 09:57 -0800
Subjectnew Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale
Message-ID<9acafc2f-1bc7-442f-adb7-ee34368545a8@googlegroups.com>
All of my PCs are set, everywhere that I have found, to
use UK, English, and ISO 8601, including the 24-hour clock.

JavaScript new Date().toLocaleTimeString() in up-to-date
Windows 7, final Windows XP, and probably in Windows 98 &
maybe even in Windows 3.x, and probably also in previous
Windows 10, gave the 24-hour clock, "HH:MM:SS"

Today, I allowed a Windows 10 update on my laptop FUJ-2012
- what arrived was Fall Creators Update, I think.

In the new update, I get "hh:mm:ss PM".  I expect to see
AM tomorrow morning. and an wondering whether the hours
field will have its leading zero before 10:00; I believe
I've seen corresponding ineptitude somewhere in UTC time.

That is the case in all of the browsers I tested, which
are not all that I have.

I don't know what happens in other locales, but it seems
likely that Evertjan & others will be able to tell us.

Note to EjH - in the Subject, sponning does not have its
Dutch meaning; it has the Grytpype-Thynne one.

I am altering my applications to build the time string
from the hour, minute, and second numbers.

The update also did not preserve my chosen screen saver
setting, which is the time.

HNY,

-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google, no spell-check.  |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#34415

From"Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net>
Date2017-12-31 20:48 +0100
Message-ID<XnsA85CD3AB78AA3eejj99@194.109.6.166>
In reply to#34414
Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> wrote on 31 Dec 
2017 in comp.lang.javascript:

> All of my PCs are set, everywhere that I have found, to
> use UK, English, and ISO 8601, including the 24-hour clock.
> 
> JavaScript new Date().toLocaleTimeString() in up-to-date
> Windows 7, final Windows XP, and probably in Windows 98 &
> maybe even in Windows 3.x, and probably also in previous
> Windows 10, gave the 24-hour clock, "HH:MM:SS"
> 
> Today, I allowed a Windows 10 update on my laptop FUJ-2012
> - what arrived was Fall Creators Update, I think.
> 
> In the new update, I get "hh:mm:ss PM".  I expect to see
> AM tomorrow morning. and an wondering whether the hours
> field will have its leading zero before 10:00; I believe
> I've seen corresponding ineptitude somewhere in UTC time.

<!DOCTYPE html>
<script type='text/javascript'> 
    	'use strict';
	document.write(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());

	// in Windows 10 Home ver 1709 build 16299.125:

	// '8:26:41 PM' Google Chrome version 64.0.3282.39       
	    	// (Off.B.) beta (64-bit)

	// '20:27:14' Microsoft Edge 41.16299.15.0
</script>


 
> That is the case in all of the browsers I tested, which
> are not all that I have.
> 
> I don't know what happens in other locales, but it seems
> likely that Evertjan & others will be able to tell us.
> 
> Note to EjH - in the Subject,

What Subject are you talking about, a British one?

> sponning does not have its
> Dutch meaning;

rabbet; runway; slot; chamfer; groove; fluting; rifling

> it has the Grytpype-Thynne one.

I seem to miss the context altogether.

> I am altering my applications to build the time string
> from the hour, minute, and second numbers.

Well, don't use these silly ones,
like ".toLocaleTimeString()",
as they only apply to American logic.

Use standard ones, or their UTC sisters, like:

getDate()
getDay()
getFullYear()
getHours()
getMilliseconds()
getMinutes()
getMonth()
getSeconds()

and

getTimezoneOffset()

======

However, I prefer serverside coding.

> The update also did not preserve my chosen screen saver
> setting, which is the time.

Is your screen worth saving?
Or do you want to save time?

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#34417

FromJJ <jj4public@vfemail.net>
Date2018-01-02 04:41 +0700
Message-ID<1ic3q5nw29i0p$.fh4fksew706v$.dlg@40tude.net>
In reply to#34415
On Sun, 31 Dec 2017 20:48:28 +0100, Evertjan. wrote:
> 
> 	document.write(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());
> 
> 	// in Windows 10 Home ver 1709 build 16299.125:
> 
> 	// '8:26:41 PM' Google Chrome version 64.0.3282.39       
> 	    	// (Off.B.) beta (64-bit)
> 
> 	// '20:27:14' Microsoft Edge 41.16299.15.0

In Windows 7 SP1 x64, my time locale is set to:

- Short format: HH:mm
- Long format: HH:mm:ss

When tested in web browsers:

  console.log(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());

  //"3:58:24 AM" - Chromium 59.0.3067.0 and Firefox ESR 52.1.2
  //"03:58:24" - MSIE 11
  //"03:58:24" - Opera (Presto) 11.64

In Ubuntu v14 x64 set with 24-hour time format:

  console.log(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());

  //"03.58.24" - Firefox 47

In Zorin v12 x64 set with 24-hour time format:

  console.log(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());

  //"03:58:24" - Chromium 60.0.3112.113

In Debian v8.9 x64 set with 24-hour time format:

  console.log(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());

  //"3:58:24 AM" - Firefox ESR 52.3.0


So, it looks like a web browser issue rather than OS.

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#34418

From"Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net>
Date2018-01-01 23:37 +0100
Message-ID<XnsA85DF05BDA963eejj99@194.109.6.166>
In reply to#34417
JJ <jj4public@vfemail.net> wrote on 01 Jan 2018 in comp.lang.javascript:

> On Sun, 31 Dec 2017 20:48:28 +0100, Evertjan. wrote:
>> 
>>      document.write(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());
>> 
>>      // in Windows 10 Home ver 1709 build 16299.125:
>> 
>>      // '8:26:41 PM' Google Chrome version 64.0.3282.39       
>>               // (Off.B.) beta (64-bit)
>> 
>>      // '20:27:14' Microsoft Edge 41.16299.15.0
> 
> In Windows 7 SP1 x64, my time locale is set to:
> 
> - Short format: HH:mm
> - Long format: HH:mm:ss
> 
> When tested in web browsers:
> 
>   console.log(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());
> 
>   //"3:58:24 AM" - Chromium 59.0.3067.0 and Firefox ESR 52.1.2
>   //"03:58:24" - MSIE 11
>   //"03:58:24" - Opera (Presto) 11.64
> 
> In Ubuntu v14 x64 set with 24-hour time format:
> 
>   console.log(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());
> 
>   //"03.58.24" - Firefox 47
> 
> In Zorin v12 x64 set with 24-hour time format:
> 
>   console.log(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());
> 
>   //"03:58:24" - Chromium 60.0.3112.113
> 
> In Debian v8.9 x64 set with 24-hour time format:
> 
>   console.log(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());
> 
>   //"3:58:24 AM" - Firefox ESR 52.3.0
> 
> 
> So, it looks like a web browser issue rather than OS.

Indeed, but only if you take issue with it.

Methinks having the browser or the o.s. settings dictate 
how my web-page will visualize time is a non-issue.

If at all possible, static date/time should be rendered 
serverside, just like all other data code that messses up 
crossbrowser or crossbrowserversion wize.

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#34433

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2018-01-03 02:25 +0100
Message-ID<1998690.EKHdCXc8td@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#34417
JJ wrote:

> So, it looks like a web browser issue rather than OS.

Your logic is flawed.  In order to make that determination, you would have 
to test at least two browsers with two different settings on the same 
operating system.  With that said, the date and time formats are usually not 
determined by the operating system, but by the desktop.

-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
<https://github.com/PointedEars> | <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | Please do not cc me./Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#34435

From"Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net>
Date2018-01-03 12:55 +0100
Message-ID<XnsA85F8367F974Feejj99@194.109.6.166>
In reply to#34433
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> wrote on 03 Jan 2018 in
comp.lang.javascript: 

> JJ wrote:
> 
>> So, it looks like a web browser issue rather than OS.
> 
> Your logic is flawed.  In order to make that determination, you would
> have to test at least two browsers with two different settings on the
> same operating system. 

No, one setting with two browsers will do.

> With that said, the date and time formats are
> usually not determined by the operating system, but by the desktop.

The "DESKTOP", realy?

I did wrote year in this tread:

"Evertjan." wrote on 31 Dec 2017 in comp.lang.javascript:

> <!DOCTYPE html>
> <script type='text/javascript'> 
>          'use strict';
>      document.write(new Date().toLocaleTimeString());
> 
>      // in Windows 10 Home ver 1709 build 16299.125:
> 
>      // '8:26:41 PM' Google Chrome version 64.0.3282.39       
>               // (Off.B.) beta (64-bit)
> 
>      // '20:27:14' Microsoft Edge 41.16299.15.0
> </script>
> 




-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#34449

FromDr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org>
Date2018-01-04 04:02 -0800
Message-ID<ffd15de0-98b4-4f44-b52d-1debb4d1747a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#34433
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 1:25:26 AM UTC, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> JJ wrote:
> 
> > So, it looks like a web browser issue rather than OS.
> 
> Your logic is flawed.  In order to make that determination, you would have 
> to test at least two browsers with two different settings on the same 
> operating system.

No; it is a script engine issue.  AIUI, on a fully-Microsoft PC, the script engine DLL is shared between Internet Explorer (and I suppose, Edge), Windows Scripting Host, applications on Microsoft Office, and anything else that wants to use it.  Other applications, such as Chrome & Vivaldi, may have their own unshared script engines or may share other engines.  And likewise for non-Windows systems.


The intent of the original article was to suggest that anyone who
writes or maintains code using a toLocale string method of a
JavaScript Date object might do well to consider the possible
effects of varying what might be considered to be an appropriate
format for the string.  These include :

* Breach of ISO8601
* Displayed string now can be longer and of inconsistent length
  (in characters and/or ems and/or pixels)
* Breaking code logic
* Annoyance


ECMA please note : Global needs a new Object, containing all of the Locale information in an internationally-defined format, read/write and settable to any specific locality known by the OS.

We could then, for example, sit comfortably in Pompey and test our Web pages to find out what the incoming Potarneylanders would see in their own systems, without confusing other applications in our own computers.

-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google, no spell-check.  |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#34451

FromMartin Honnen <martin.honnen@gmx.de>
Date2018-01-04 13:30 +0100
Message-ID<p2l6ok$6u9$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#34449
On 04.01.2018 13:02, Dr J R Stockton wrote:

> AIUI, on a fully-Microsoft PC, the script engine DLL is shared between Internet Explorer (and I suppose, Edge), Windows Scripting Host, applications on Microsoft Office, and anything else that wants to use it.  

That is a thing of the past. IE moved away from the ActiveX based 
JScript engine long ago. Edge for sure doesn't share the script engine 
with Windows Script Host, it has its own script engine. The script 
engine of Edge is under continuous development, the one for IE not. (see 
for instance the Edge columns at 
https://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es6/ compared to the IE 11 column)

And the engine for WSH hasn't been developed further I think since IE 
got its own, not ActiveX based one.

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#34452

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2018-01-04 16:48 +0100
Message-ID<2491699.5yOe22vNvG@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#34449
Dr J R Stockton wrote:

> On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 1:25:26 AM UTC, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
> wrote:
>> JJ wrote:
>> > So, it looks like a web browser issue rather than OS.
>> Your logic is flawed.  In order to make that determination, you would
>> have to test at least two browsers with two different settings on the
>> same operating system.
> 
> No;

Yes it is.

> it is a script engine issue.  

Evidently not only.  To be more precise, and as the method names indicate, 
it is first determined by the locale, however that is set.  For example,

  LC_TIME=de_CH.UTF-8 firefox-esr

causes

  d.toLocaleString() === "4.1.2018, 16:41:34"

while

  LC_TIME=C firefox-esr

causes

  d.toLocaleString() === "1/4/2018, 4:41:34 PM"

for the same Date d, whereas “firefox-esr” starts navigator.userAgent === 
"Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0".

> AIUI, on a fully-Microsoft PC […]

There is no such thing, and there is not only Microsoft Windows.  “JJ” had 
tested on different *Linux* distributions, without taking into account that 
the distribution does not determine the date and time format, but first the 
locale which may be determined by settings of the used desktop 
(environment)¹, and then the used script engine.

________
¹  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_environment>
-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
<https://github.com/PointedEars> | <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | Please do not cc me./Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#34485

FromJoao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com>
Date2018-01-06 13:02 -0200
Message-ID<p2qodd$1rd5$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#34414
On 31/12/2017 15:57, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
> All of my PCs are set, everywhere that I have found, to
> use UK, English, and ISO 8601, including the 24-hour clock.
> 
> JavaScript new Date().toLocaleTimeString() in up-to-date
> Windows 7, final Windows XP, and probably in Windows 98 &
> maybe even in Windows 3.x, and probably also in previous
> Windows 10, gave the 24-hour clock, "HH:MM:SS"
> 
> Today, I allowed a Windows 10 update on my laptop FUJ-2012
> - what arrived was Fall Creators Update, I think.
> 
> In the new update, I get "hh:mm:ss PM".  I expect to see
> AM tomorrow morning. and an wondering whether the hours
> field will have its leading zero before 10:00; I believe
> I've seen corresponding ineptitude somewhere in UTC time.
> 
> That is the case in all of the browsers I tested, which
> are not all that I have.
> 
> I don't know what happens in other locales, but it seems
> likely that Evertjan & others will be able to tell us.
> 

You may use .toLocaleTimeString() with the new locales and options 
arguments [1]:

var date = new Date();
var options = {
   year: 'numeric', month: 'numeric', day: 'numeric',
   hour: 'numeric', minute: 'numeric', second: 'numeric',
   hour12: false,
   timeZone: 'GMT' // London - UK
};

console.log(date.toLocaleTimeString('en-GB', options));
// 06/01/2018, 14:57:25

Or use the Intl object from the ECMAScript Internationalization API [2] 
directly:

console.log(new Intl.DateTimeFormat('en-GB', options).format(date));

[1] 
<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Date/toLocaleTimeString>
[2] 
<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/DateTimeFormat>

Cheers,
Joao Rodrigues

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#34490

FromDr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org>
Date2018-01-06 11:18 -0800
Message-ID<49e9404e-ae0e-4e2c-ab90-bb1afd2b5409@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#34485
On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 3:02:17 PM UTC, Joao Rodrigues wrote:
> On 31/12/2017 15:57, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
> > All of my PCs are set, everywhere that I have found, to
> > use UK, English, and ISO 8601, including the 24-hour clock.
> > ...

> You may use .toLocaleTimeString() with the new locales and options 
> arguments [1]:
> 
> var date = new Date();
> var options = {
>    year: 'numeric', month: 'numeric', day: 'numeric',
>    hour: 'numeric', minute: 'numeric', second: 'numeric',
>    hour12: false,
>    timeZone: 'GMT' // London - UK
> };
> 
> console.log(date.toLocaleTimeString('en-GB', options));
> // 06/01/2018, 14:57:25


toLocaleTimeString SHOULD NOT give the _date_, so either the spec or the implementation is WRONG.

> Or use the Intl object from the ECMAScript Internationalization API [2] 
> directly:
> 
> console.log(new Intl.DateTimeFormat('en-GB', options).format(date));

It can give the same, but that format is not ISO8601:2004 (which, according to Wikipedia, is the latest).  Date field order wrong, date separator wrong. date/time separator wrong.  The method appears unknown to IE11 in Win7.

Also, timeZone is a terminological ineptitude; a Time Zone is defined as the set of places which, in local winter, have the same offset from GMT/UTC.

I believe that one current user is closely enough associated with ECMA : please ask ECMA to BUY a current copy of ISO8601 and READ it.

-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google, no spell-check.  |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#34500

FromJoao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com>
Date2018-01-07 13:07 -0200
Message-ID<p2td2l$1qgt$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#34490
On 06/01/2018 17:18, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 3:02:17 PM UTC, Joao Rodrigues wrote:
>> On 31/12/2017 15:57, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
>>> All of my PCs are set, everywhere that I have found, to
>>> use UK, English, and ISO 8601, including the 24-hour clock.
>>> ...
> 
>> You may use .toLocaleTimeString() with the new locales and options
>> arguments [1]:
>>
>> var date = new Date();
>> var options = {
>>     year: 'numeric', month: 'numeric', day: 'numeric',
>>     hour: 'numeric', minute: 'numeric', second: 'numeric',
>>     hour12: false,
>>     timeZone: 'GMT' // London - UK
>> };
>>
>> console.log(date.toLocaleTimeString('en-GB', options));
>> // 06/01/2018, 14:57:25
> 
> 
> toLocaleTimeString SHOULD NOT give the _date_, so either the spec or the implementation is WRONG.

The Date.prototype.toLocaleTimeString method indeed returns a time as a 
string value (implementation-dependent) in the current time zone that is 
appropriate to the host environment's current locale or a specified locale.

Modern browsers implement the Date.prototype.toLocaleTimeString method 
as specified in the ECMA-402 Internationalization API.

In the example above, the locales parameter was specified as 'en-GB' and 
the options parameter was used to customise the returning string. I 
apologise for adding the date portion in the formatting options as this 
was misleading to you, however I only did that to show what can be done 
with that parameter.


> 
>> Or use the Intl object from the ECMAScript Internationalization API [2]
>> directly:
>>
>> console.log(new Intl.DateTimeFormat('en-GB', options).format(date));
> 
> It can give the same, but that format is not ISO8601:2004 (which, according to Wikipedia, is the latest).  Date field order wrong, date separator wrong. date/time separator wrong.

As I said above, I used the options parameter to format the returning 
string as "date, time", but I recognise that was not a good idea given I 
was using the toLocaleTimeString() method. :-(


>  The method appears unknown to IE11 in Win7.

As of IE 11 in standards document mode, toLocaleTimeString() uses 
Intl.DateTimeFormat internally to format the time, which adds support 
for the locales and options arguments:
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/scripting/javascript/reference/tolocaletimestring-method-date-javascript>

But it seems to me that IE 11 doesn't recognise some values for the 
options parameter such as "GMT" for timeZone. So I have rewritten the 
the example as below to work in IE 11 under Win 10:

var date = new Date();
var options = {
   hour: '2-digit',
   minute: '2-digit',
   second: '2-digit',
   hour12: false
};
document.write('<p>' + date.toLocaleTimeString('en-GB', options) + '</p>');

> 
> Also, timeZone is a terminological ineptitude; a Time Zone is defined as the set of places which, in local winter, have the same offset from GMT/UTC.
> 

ECMAScript implementations must recognize at least "UTC" for timeZone in 
the options parameter. The default is the runtime's default time zone. 
Implementations may also recognize the time zone names of the IANA time 
zone database, such as "Asia/Shanghai", "Asia/Kolkata", "America/New_York".
<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Date/toLocaleTimeString>

-- 
Joao Rodrigues

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#34505

FromDr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org>
Date2018-01-07 12:19 -0800
Message-ID<6dcb20f6-7e19-4cb9-b9d5-5f0e4bc7f073@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#34500
On Sunday, January 7, 2018 at 3:07:13 PM UTC, Joao Rodrigues wrote:
> On 06/01/2018 17:18, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 3:02:17 PM UTC, Joao Rodrigues wrote:
> >> On 31/12/2017 15:57, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
> >>> All of my PCs are set, everywhere that I have found, to
> >>> use UK, English, and ISO 8601, including the 24-hour clock.
> >>> ...

 
> > Also, timeZone is a terminological ineptitude; a Time Zone is defined as the set of places which, in local winter, have the same offset from GMT/UTC.
> > 
> 
> ECMAScript implementations must recognize at least "UTC" for timeZone in 
> the options parameter. The default is the runtime's default time zone. 
> Implementations may also recognize the time zone names of the IANA time 
> zone database, such as "Asia/Shanghai", "Asia/Kolkata", "America/New_York".
> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Date/toLocaleTimeString>

ECMA has accepted a terminological ineptitude.

The IANA — Time Zone Database at https://www.iana.org/time-zones is not a Time Zone Database : "It is updated periodically to reflect changes made by political bodies to time zone boundaries, UTC offsets, and daylight-saving rules.".  It has a California address, and it is well known that Americans, especially over on that coast, disregard International Standards, etc. *

The proper meaning of Time Zone is that in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_zone - "A time zone is a region of the globe that observes a uniform standard time ...".  And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_time - "In regions where daylight saving time is used, that time is defined by another offset, from the standard time in its applicable time zones." in which the last two words should be replaced by 'regions' or similar.

So the UK (excepting, AIUI, one very small part) and Iceland are in the GMT Time Zone (WET (UTC+0)), even when the UK (but not Iceland) has Summer Time.

Granted, Wikipedia is not definitive; but in this case it is right.


* The Americans love standards - that is why they make so many different ones of their own whenever the whim takes them.

-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google, no spell-check.  |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#34515

FromJon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu>
Date2018-01-08 11:43 +0000
Message-ID<slrnp56mbm.236.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
In reply to#34505
On 2018-01-07, Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> wrote:
> So the UK (excepting, AIUI, one very small part) and Iceland are in
> the GMT Time Zone (WET (UTC+0)), even when the UK (but not Iceland)
> has Summer Time.

Where are you getting this idea that the time zone in the UK should
be called "the GMT Time Zone"? It is a contradiction in terms since
GMT is not a time zone and the UK is not on GMT during the summer.

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#34517

From"Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net>
Date2018-01-08 13:26 +0100
Message-ID<XnsA86488D05EF11eejj99@194.109.6.166>
In reply to#34515
Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote on 08 Jan 2018 in 
comp.lang.javascript:

> On 2018-01-07, Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> wrote:
>> So the UK (excepting, AIUI, one very small part) and Iceland are in
>> the GMT Time Zone (WET (UTC+0)), even when the UK (but not Iceland)
>> has Summer Time.
> 
> Where are you getting this idea that the time zone in the UK should
> be called "the GMT Time Zone"? It is a contradiction in terms since
> GMT is not a time zone and the UK is not on GMT during the summer.

No, John is right.

The "time-zone" does not change during summer-time time-shift,
as time-zone defines a zone, read region, not a time.



-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#34520

FromJon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu>
Date2018-01-08 16:36 +0000
Message-ID<slrnp577fq.236.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
In reply to#34517
On 2018-01-08, Evertjan. <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> wrote:
> Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote on 08 Jan 2018 in 
> comp.lang.javascript:
>> Where are you getting this idea that the time zone in the UK should
>> be called "the GMT Time Zone"? It is a contradiction in terms since
>> GMT is not a time zone and the UK is not on GMT during the summer.
>
> No, John is right.
>
> The "time-zone" does not change during summer-time time-shift,
> as time-zone defines a zone, read region, not a time.

Obviously I'm not denying that the UK (currently) has a time zone.
What I would like is a reference that someone with the authority to do
so has given that time zone the exceedingly misleading name of "GMT".

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#34518

FromDr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org>
Date2018-01-08 06:09 -0800
Message-ID<f50bfebd-bc68-460c-b3ff-d28e6595d120@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#34515
On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 11:44:00 AM UTC, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On 2018-01-07, Dr J R Stockton <...> wrote:
> > So the UK (excepting, AIUI, one very small part) and Iceland are in
> > the GMT Time Zone (WET (UTC+0)), even when the UK (but not Iceland)
> > has Summer Time.
> 
> Where are you getting this idea that the time zone in the UK should
> be called "the GMT Time Zone"? It is a contradiction in terms since
> GMT is not a time zone and the UK is not on GMT during the summer.

I get the idea from reading truly authoritative sources of information, such as, but not necessarily all of, and not only, NPL, BIPM, NIST - and by remembering that Microsoft is unreliable.

By law, UK Time is GMT-based (unless the law has changed); but in actuality UK time is UTC-based, in all parts, and the Summer Time offset is an hour ahead of Winter Time.

AISB, a Time Zone is defined as a set of places which have the same Standard Time offset from GMT/UTC - and Standard Time is Winter Time, with Summer Time being offset forward from that (in practice, by a multiple of 30 minutes).  ((( The delightful story that the Irish, realising that Summer Time lasts longer than Winter Time, decided to use GMT+1 as their Standard Time and set their clocks back by an hour for Winter is presumed to be untrue.  Alas. )))

Most computers, although intermittently synchronised to a UTC source, actually use GMT+drift, since they ignore Leap Seconds.

-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google, no spell-check.  |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#34519

FromJon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu>
Date2018-01-08 16:33 +0000
Message-ID<slrnp577bh.236.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
In reply to#34518
On 2018-01-08, Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> wrote:
> On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 11:44:00 AM UTC, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> Where are you getting this idea that the time zone in the UK should
>> be called "the GMT Time Zone"? It is a contradiction in terms since
>> GMT is not a time zone and the UK is not on GMT during the summer.
>
> I get the idea from reading truly authoritative sources of
> information, such as, but not necessarily all of, and not only, NPL,
> BIPM, NIST - and by remembering that Microsoft is unreliable.

It's Microsoft that (falsely/misleadingly) claims that the UK's
time zone is "GMT". What is your reason for agreeing with them?
"NPL BIPM NIST" is not a cite.

> AISB, a Time Zone is defined as a set of places which have the same
> Standard Time offset from GMT/UTC - and Standard Time is Winter
> Time, with Summer Time being offset forward from that (in practice,
> by a multiple of 30 minutes).

Yes. None of that contradicts the facts that GMT is not a Time Zone,
and also the time in the UK in the summer is not GMT.

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#34521

From"Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz>
Date2018-01-08 18:58 +0000
Message-ID<p30f0k$i1j$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#34519
Jon Ribbens wrote:

> Yes. None of that contradicts the facts that GMT is not a Time Zone...

What? 

GMT IS a time zone (UTC + 0).
Countless sources state GMT as a time zone.

Just one of thousands, https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/

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#34522

FromJon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu>
Date2018-01-08 19:33 +0000
Message-ID<slrnp57hsf.236.jon+usenet@sable.unequivocal.eu>
In reply to#34521
On 2018-01-08, Mark- <nospam@mapson.xyz> wrote:
> Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> Yes. None of that contradicts the facts that GMT is not a Time Zone...
>
> What? 
>
> GMT IS a time zone (UTC + 0).

Please read the thread. As everyone is agreed, a Time Zone is
a geographic area or set of areas which use a common time standard.
"GMT" is not a geographic area, it *is* a time standard, and one
which in summer time does not equal the time used in the UK.

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