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Groups > comp.lang.javascript > #17308 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Asen Bozhilov <asen.bozhilov@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2012-11-19 13:00 -0800 |
| Last post | 2012-12-23 19:13 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 226 — 28 participants |
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Maintainer of the FAQ Asen Bozhilov <asen.bozhilov@gmail.com> - 2012-11-19 13:00 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-11-19 13:34 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ RobG <rgqld@iinet.net.au> - 2012-11-20 01:25 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-11-20 13:39 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Asen Bozhilov <asen.bozhilov@gmail.com> - 2012-11-20 11:24 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-21 19:19 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-11-22 14:09 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-20 19:50 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-11-20 19:56 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-11-21 11:24 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-22 23:34 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-11-23 11:07 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-24 18:30 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ jim.ley@gmail.com - 2012-11-22 03:06 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Asen Bozhilov <asen.bozhilov@gmail.com> - 2012-11-22 07:15 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> - 2012-11-22 08:48 -0700
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-23 20:00 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-11-24 10:36 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-25 19:16 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-11-26 10:18 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-11-26 12:50 +0200
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-11-30 14:23 -0500
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-01 09:24 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-12-01 08:45 -0500
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-12-01 16:17 +0200
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-12 19:30 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-01 18:50 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-02 19:25 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-02 21:31 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Asen Bozhilov <asen.bozhilov@gmail.com> - 2012-12-05 03:48 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-05 12:55 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-12-05 14:52 +0200
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-06 06:16 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-12-05 16:56 -0500
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-12-06 00:20 +0200
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-05 14:47 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 07:11 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 08:37 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-06 17:50 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 08:57 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-06 18:32 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 10:34 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-07 11:05 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-07 07:21 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-11 09:01 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-12 19:37 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-12-07 11:24 -0500
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-11 09:00 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-07 20:54 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-12-08 03:42 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2012-12-08 02:53 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-09 16:43 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-07 11:16 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-08 18:45 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 10:40 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-06 15:16 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 08:48 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-12-06 18:31 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-06 23:06 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 16:24 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-08 18:06 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 01:29 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-12-05 22:24 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-05 23:36 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 00:35 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-07 10:45 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 16:01 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-07 21:00 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-12-08 10:17 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 01:12 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 23:22 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-08 04:46 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-08 15:56 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-08 09:00 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2012-12-08 17:54 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-08 20:53 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 11:02 +0100
Functions in JavaScript vs. mathematics & the name "JavaScript" "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-12-08 23:31 +0200
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Mike Duffy <Use_guestbook_page@website.in.sig> - 2012-12-09 02:02 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 23:12 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-09 16:44 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2012-12-10 01:30 -0500
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-08 16:04 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-08 08:37 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-08 21:34 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-08 21:49 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-09 11:05 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-12-06 03:24 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-06 16:09 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-06 15:23 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-06 17:44 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-07 15:03 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 09:05 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-12-06 18:59 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-12-06 19:24 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-06 19:26 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 14:11 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-07 03:07 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 18:36 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-07 04:11 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 20:26 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-07 20:40 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-07 01:58 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-07 14:32 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-07 07:22 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 11:19 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-07 21:11 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-07 16:19 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-08 18:33 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 22:14 -0800
FAQ source format (was: Maintainer of the FAQ) Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 13:56 +0100
Re: FAQ source format Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-09 08:09 -0800
Re: FAQ source format Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 19:12 -0800
Re: FAQ source format Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-10 20:49 +0000
Re: FAQ source format (was: Maintainer of the FAQ) Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 18:59 -0800
Re: FAQ source format Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-09 20:13 -0800
Re: FAQ source format Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 20:50 -0800
Re: FAQ source format (was: Maintainer of the FAQ) Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-10 20:41 +0000
Re: FAQ source format (was: Maintainer of the FAQ) Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 18:09 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-09 07:06 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 19:12 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-09 20:11 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-10 20:32 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 17:53 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-12 21:07 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2012-12-12 21:52 -0500
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-13 16:05 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-15 00:40 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-13 08:09 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-15 00:40 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-15 11:02 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-16 17:58 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-17 11:22 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-17 10:40 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-17 20:05 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-18 00:31 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Osmo Saarikumpu <osmo@weppipakki.com> - 2012-12-18 10:18 +0200
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-18 13:38 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-18 14:59 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 16:33 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-18 09:26 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-18 23:09 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-18 23:47 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-18 15:21 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-18 16:32 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 08:11 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-19 18:26 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 06:55 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-21 15:46 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-21 06:59 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 08:27 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-21 19:12 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-21 15:30 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 08:24 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-21 19:09 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-21 20:21 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-22 08:58 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-14 08:01 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Adam Silver <adambsilver@gmail.com> - 2012-12-14 00:28 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-15 23:25 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-15 00:39 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-16 00:23 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-15 15:00 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Osmo Saarikumpu <osmo@weppipakki.com> - 2012-12-16 17:14 +0200
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-17 18:33 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-16 17:32 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-16 17:24 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-18 17:15 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-19 18:57 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Osmo Saarikumpu <osmo@weppipakki.com> - 2012-12-27 23:03 +0200
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-28 11:14 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-28 09:12 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-08 18:24 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-12-07 10:11 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-13 09:25 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-14 07:26 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-13 21:45 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-07 21:06 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-08 02:45 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-08 13:30 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-09 17:00 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-12-08 10:14 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-05 09:03 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-05 18:39 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-05 11:56 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-05 12:30 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-06 08:54 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-05 23:38 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-12-13 14:18 -0500
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-15 00:09 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-16 01:54 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-17 18:32 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 07:06 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-18 17:54 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 11:38 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-18 12:50 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-18 23:23 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 19:46 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-19 18:10 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 11:31 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-19 22:54 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 16:36 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-05 22:49 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-06 23:21 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-06 15:08 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 01:01 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Adam Silver <adambsilver@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 07:40 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-06 23:51 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2012-12-08 02:19 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-12-08 03:57 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2012-12-08 03:06 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 09:34 +0100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2012-12-08 13:36 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-22 16:19 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-22 08:59 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-23 13:38 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-12-23 10:49 +0200
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-23 16:58 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1252@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-24 21:03 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-27 09:33 -0800
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1252@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-28 21:33 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-28 11:16 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-28 09:08 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-28 22:01 +1100
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-28 11:26 +0000
Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-23 19:13 +0000
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| From | Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-15 00:39 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <LrPUxRYGb8yQFwJf@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> |
| In reply to | #17699 |
In comp.lang.javascript message <43ekc81dc1h70ji7sfht92m4p4s3fp0v3f@4ax.
com>, Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:01:21, Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au>
posted:
>On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 21:07:04 +0000, in comp.lang.javascript Dr J R
>Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid>
><Y6wAFuQ4HPyQFw7P@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> wrote:
>
>>| In comp.lang.javascript message <18e8688c-731a-46ce-b81f-bdf3b30e1a5d@10
>>| g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:53:39, Scott Sauyet
>[snip]
>>| >I did try to make it clear that my design skills are not strong. I'm
>>| >assuming that there will be someone here who could help create CSS
>>| >that would meet the group's goals for clarity and attractiveness.
>>|
>>| This is a newsgroup. No design skills should be used. Plain text won
>>| WWII; the losers started with Fraktur or similar; the other losers
>>| favoured squashed spiders. Any tarting up will reduce accessibility for
>>| some.
>
>How will accessibility be reduced? There are no images, no multi-media
>areas (video or audio) there is no Flash Player required. There isn't
>even any JavaScript on the page (except for code examples).
>
>As I understand it - the source files will be plain text using
>markdown syntax. When viewed as a web page the markdown syntax is
>converted to html elements. The CSS is required to format the text.
>The only accessibility problems that I can see is, if for some strange
>reason, there was a use of a crazy colour scheme.
You use too much jargon. What is markdown? Give examples or
recommended URLs.
>Having a look at the faq.css file that is used to format the current
>FAQ - I would vote to keep this same styling.
>
>BTW: you own home page fails the WAI Level 1 test with 115 errors.
Jargon. What and where is this test? Give URL.
>>| Eschew surplusage.
>
>How so? How would the use of CSS cause excessive or nonessential
>matter?
If any of the CSS is not NEEDED, then it is eschewable surplusage.
>>| >> I cannot see whether you have done so, and it may in this case be
>>| >> totally irrelevant. BUT: also, all Web pages should be tested with
>>| >> Firefox Zoom Text Only. FireFox is a major browser, and ZTO can be much
>>| >> appreciated, especially by older readers.
>>| >
>>| >I'm not sure there is a difference between Firefox's normal zoom mode
>>| >and ZTO in a text-only page, but all the fonts will certainly scale
>>| >properly in the design that's there.
>>|
>>| To be sure, test. Test ASAP.
>>|
>>| If it is fundamentally an ASCII document, it will be OK. But introduce
>>| _any_ CSS layout with units other than (AFAIR) em & ex, and failure is
>>| probable.
>
>What a load of croc. Open a plain text file in your browser then do
>the ctrl-+ and ctrl-- thing. The browser will zoom the text regardless
>if there is a stylesheet attached or not.
I put CSS, not stylesheet.
Indeed it will zoom the text. But you seem not to have noticed the O in
ZTO = Zoom Text Only. Consider these two crude pseudo-buttons :
<div style="height:20px; width: 60px; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div>
<br>
<div style="height:2.5ex; width: 9ex; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div>
and notice the difference in behaviour with and without ZTO in Firefox.
>>| Just roam the Web using Firefox with ZTO turned on, and try a few steps
>>| UP of Ctrl-wheel on each site. Start, say, with a Google search results
>>| page - the results are OK, the foot is neatly OK, the top fails. Try
>>| www.nasa.gov. Try the heartlands of incompetence, www.usa.gov
>>| &http://www.whitehouse.gov/. Contrast https://www.gov.uk/ - and
>>| http://www.whitehouse.gov/our-government !!. But why "our"? - the WWW
>>| is WW. Parochial. http://www.canada.gc.ca/home.html is nearly right.
>>| http://www.govern.ad/ is rather good.
>
>Have you seen your page zoomed to 500%?
In which browser, on what system, and with what screen size?
>>| >> and I rather dislike coloured ink for basic text.
>>| >
>>| >Again, I'm assuming that the design will be thrown away eventually.
>>| >I'm mostly interested in the infrastructure at this point.
>>|
>>| Indeed. But you are including that which should not be there.
>>|
>>| One should, by the way, also test printing in various browsers. One of
>>| our local help-the-people sites is OK on screen for me, dark enough text
>>| on light enough. But, printed in one common browser, the text is
>>| undesirably faint, though readable in a good light etc. Printed in
>>| another common browser, that part of the paper could easily be reused as
>>| lightly shop-soiled white paper. I expect that using black text on
>>| white or light pastel background on screen, with no special media CSS,
>>| would have been fine.
>Nothing special about:
>@media print {
> body, html {
> background-color: white !important;
> color: black !important;
> }
>}
If there is nothing special about it, then it serves no purpose. You
may know what it does, but many will not. I do not know what the site
was, and the paper is now in a sickroom.
But I did not say anything about using media CSS: I was saying what I
expect to actually happen with the page as described - which would have
also been easier to read on-screen. Informative pages should not be
decorated to such an extent that print media CSS is needed for the
information to be readable in print.
And one should still test in various browsers, in case anything
unforeseen happens.
Additionally, US authors should test-print on A4 paper, which is used
almost world-wide, rather than testing only on antiquated Imperial-sized
stuff.
--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Proper <= 4-line sig. separator as above, a line exactly "-- " (SonOfRFC1036)
Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "> " (SonOfRFC1036)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-16 00:23 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <lcpoc8hvni8ttfoja2e5d43po7d6buq9kh@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #17705 |
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 00:39:34 +0000, in comp.lang.javascript Dr J R
Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid>
<LrPUxRYGb8yQFwJf@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> wrote:
>| In comp.lang.javascript message <43ekc81dc1h70ji7sfht92m4p4s3fp0v3f@4ax.
>| com>, Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:01:21, Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au>
>| posted:
>|
>| >On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 21:07:04 +0000, in comp.lang.javascript Dr J R
>| >Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid>
>| ><Y6wAFuQ4HPyQFw7P@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> wrote:
>| >
>| >>| In comp.lang.javascript message <18e8688c-731a-46ce-b81f-bdf3b30e1a5d@10
>| >>| g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:53:39, Scott Sauyet
>| >[snip]
>| >>| >I did try to make it clear that my design skills are not strong. I'm
>| >>| >assuming that there will be someone here who could help create CSS
>| >>| >that would meet the group's goals for clarity and attractiveness.
>| >>|
>| >>| This is a newsgroup. No design skills should be used. Plain text won
>| >>| WWII; the losers started with Fraktur or similar; the other losers
>| >>| favoured squashed spiders. Any tarting up will reduce accessibility for
>| >>| some.
>| >
>| >How will accessibility be reduced? There are no images, no multi-media
>| >areas (video or audio) there is no Flash Player required. There isn't
>| >even any JavaScript on the page (except for code examples).
>| >
>| >As I understand it - the source files will be plain text using
>| >markdown syntax. When viewed as a web page the markdown syntax is
>| >converted to html elements. The CSS is required to format the text.
>| >The only accessibility problems that I can see is, if for some strange
>| >reason, there was a use of a crazy colour scheme.
>|
>| You use too much jargon. What is markdown? Give examples or
>| recommended URLs.
Haven't you been following this thread? Anyway here is a link - with
examples.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown
>| >Having a look at the faq.css file that is used to format the current
>| >FAQ - I would vote to keep this same styling.
>| >
>| >BTW: you own home page fails the WAI Level 1 test with 115 errors.
>|
>| Jargon. What and where is this test? Give URL.
You're the one complaining about "reduce accessibility for some" yet
you don't understand the w3c standards or jargon.
Google "wai online validator". There should be something there for you
within the 1.6million hits.
>| >>| Eschew surplusage.
>| >
>| >How so? How would the use of CSS cause excessive or nonessential
>| >matter?
>|
>| If any of the CSS is not NEEDED, then it is eschewable surplusage.
So, if one CSS declaration is not needed on a single page then the
whole site should not use CSS.
Your own site has 31 declarations not used. Is this an example of
"eschewable surplusage"?
>| >>| >> I cannot see whether you have done so, and it may in this case be
>| >>| >> totally irrelevant. BUT: also, all Web pages should be tested with
>| >>| >> Firefox Zoom Text Only. FireFox is a major browser, and ZTO can be much
>| >>| >> appreciated, especially by older readers.
>| >>| >
>| >>| >I'm not sure there is a difference between Firefox's normal zoom mode
>| >>| >and ZTO in a text-only page, but all the fonts will certainly scale
>| >>| >properly in the design that's there.
>| >>|
>| >>| To be sure, test. Test ASAP.
>| >>|
>| >>| If it is fundamentally an ASCII document, it will be OK. But introduce
>| >>| _any_ CSS layout with units other than (AFAIR) em & ex, and failure is
>| >>| probable.
>| >
>| >What a load of croc. Open a plain text file in your browser then do
>| >the ctrl-+ and ctrl-- thing. The browser will zoom the text regardless
>| >if there is a stylesheet attached or not.
>|
>| I put CSS, not stylesheet.
CSS = Cascading Style Sheet.
>| Indeed it will zoom the text. But you seem not to have noticed the O in
>| ZTO = Zoom Text Only. Consider these two crude pseudo-buttons :
>|
>| <div style="height:20px; width: 60px; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div>
>| <br>
>| <div style="height:2.5ex; width: 9ex; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div>
I've test the above in FF 17.0.1, Chrome 23.0.1271.97 m, Safari 5.1.2,
Opera 12.11 and IE 10.0.9200. Using the browser's default zoom
controls (ctrl+ and ctrl-) there is no difference in either of the
texts.
>| and notice the difference in behaviour with and without ZTO in Firefox.
Where is this option within Firefox. I'm using FF 17.0.1.
>| >>| Just roam the Web using Firefox with ZTO turned on, and try a few steps
>| >>| UP of Ctrl-wheel on each site. Start, say, with a Google search results
>| >>| page - the results are OK, the foot is neatly OK, the top fails. Try
>| >>| www.nasa.gov. Try the heartlands of incompetence, www.usa.gov
>| >>| &http://www.whitehouse.gov/. Contrast https://www.gov.uk/ - and
>| >>| http://www.whitehouse.gov/our-government !!. But why "our"? - the WWW
>| >>| is WW. Parochial. http://www.canada.gc.ca/home.html is nearly right.
>| >>| http://www.govern.ad/ is rather good.
>| >
>| >Have you seen your page zoomed to 500%?
>|
>| In which browser, on what system, and with what screen size?
All browsers, all systems and all screen sizes.
>|
>| >>| >> and I rather dislike coloured ink for basic text.
>| >>| >
>| >>| >Again, I'm assuming that the design will be thrown away eventually.
>| >>| >I'm mostly interested in the infrastructure at this point.
>| >>|
>| >>| Indeed. But you are including that which should not be there.
>| >>|
>| >>| One should, by the way, also test printing in various browsers. One of
>| >>| our local help-the-people sites is OK on screen for me, dark enough text
>| >>| on light enough. But, printed in one common browser, the text is
>| >>| undesirably faint, though readable in a good light etc. Printed in
>| >>| another common browser, that part of the paper could easily be reused as
>| >>| lightly shop-soiled white paper. I expect that using black text on
>| >>| white or light pastel background on screen, with no special media CSS,
>| >>| would have been fine.
>|
>| >Nothing special about:
>| >@media print {
>| > body, html {
>| > background-color: white !important;
>| > color: black !important;
>| > }
>| >}
>|
>| If there is nothing special about it, then it serves no purpose. You
>| may know what it does, but many will not. I do not know what the site
>| was, and the paper is now in a sickroom.
>|
>| But I did not say anything about using media CSS: I was saying what I
>| expect to actually happen with the page as described - which would have
>| also been easier to read on-screen. Informative pages should not be
>| decorated to such an extent that print media CSS is needed for the
>| information to be readable in print.
Then maybe you should remove the colours off your own web site. When
you print the pages from your web site you get a dark gray background
with black text. Not the easiest to read.
>| And one should still test in various browsers, in case anything
>| unforeseen happens.
>|
>|
>| Additionally, US authors should test-print on A4 paper, which is used
>| almost world-wide, rather than testing only on antiquated Imperial-sized
>| stuff.
http://jibbering.com/faq/#printSettings
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-15 15:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <2185456.sDcR8J89uG@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #17710 |
Jeff North wrote: [quotations fixed] > Dr J R Stockton wrote: >> Indeed it will zoom the text. But you seem not to have noticed the O in >> ZTO = Zoom Text Only. Consider these two crude pseudo-buttons : >> >> <div style="height:20px; width: 60px; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div> >> <br> >> <div style="height:2.5ex; width: 9ex; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div> > > I've test the above in FF 17.0.1, Chrome 23.0.1271.97 m, Safari 5.1.2, > Opera 12.11 and IE 10.0.9200. Using the browser's default zoom > controls (ctrl+ and ctrl-) there is no difference in either of the > texts. > >>| and notice the difference in behaviour with and without ZTO in Firefox. > > Where is this option within Firefox. I'm using FF 17.0.1. It was in the “View” menu, under “Font Size” or “Zoom”, then “Zoom Text Only”. The option had been disabled by default some time ago as it was in other browsers (probably Opera started that which has had, AFAIK, never an option to zoom the text only). However, it is still useful, primarily for Web develpment. I have only Firefox/Iceweasel 10.0.11 handy on this OS, and it has been a while since I used Firefox elsewhere, so I do not know if it is still there in Fx 17 (which OS?). PointedEars -- Sometimes, what you learn is wrong. If those wrong ideas are close to the root of the knowledge tree you build on a particular subject, pruning the bad branches can sometimes cause the whole tree to collapse. -- Mike Duffy in cljs, <news:Xns9FB6521286DB8invalidcom@94.75.214.39>
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Osmo Saarikumpu <osmo@weppipakki.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-16 17:14 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <kakofi$55h$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #17711 |
On 15.12.2012 16:00, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: >> Jeff North wrote: >> Where is this option within Firefox. I'm using FF 17.0.1. > It was in the “View” menu, under “Font Size” or “Zoom”, then “Zoom Text > Only”. Yes, still is: View --> Zoom --> Zoom Text Only. > The option had been disabled by default some time ago as it was in > other browsers (probably Opera started that which has had, AFAIK, never an > option to zoom the text only). Yes, but browser updates will abide by the preference once you set it manually. > However, it is still useful, primarily for > Web develpment. It is the only Zoom I ever use. > I have only Firefox/Iceweasel 10.0.11 handy on this OS, and > it has been a while since I used Firefox elsewhere, so I do not know if it > is still there in Fx 17 (which OS?). It still here (Win XP), but perhaps slightly hidden under the hood, as IIRC, the menu bar is now deactivated by default in new installations (browswer updates seem to rememember this setting also). Anyways, one can turn on ZTO by navigating to 'about:config' and setting 'browser.zoom.full' to 'false'. -- Best wishes, Osmo
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-17 18:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <gj$ezJSCW2zQFwFb@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> |
| In reply to | #17722 |
In comp.lang.javascript message <kakofi$55h$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Sun, 16 Dec 2012 17:14:03, Osmo Saarikumpu <osmo@weppipakki.com> posted: > >It still here (Win XP), but perhaps slightly hidden under the hood, as >IIRC, the menu bar is now deactivated by default in new installations >(browswer updates seem to rememember this setting also). > >Anyways, one can turn on ZTO by navigating to 'about:config' and setting >'browser.zoom.full' to 'false'. Copied, with minor tweaks, into my <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/www-use1.htm#ZTO1>, comment on which would be welcome, especially from you. I did not know, but should have guessed, about the 'about:config' setting. Thanks. -- (c) John Stockton, nr London UK. E-addr via Homepage. Turnpike v6.05 MIME. <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> TP/BP/Delphi/&c., FAQqy topics & links; <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/clpb-faq.txt> RAH Prins : c.l.p.b mFAQ.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-16 17:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mzSfnSK2WgzQFwlm@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> |
| In reply to | #17711 |
In comp.lang.javascript message <2185456.sDcR8J89uG@PointedEars.de>, Sat, 15 Dec 2012 15:00:56, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> posted: >It was in the “View” menu, under “Font Size” or “Zoom”, then “Zoom Text >Only”. The option had been disabled by default some time ago as it was in >other browsers (probably Opera started that which has had, AFAIK, never an >option to zoom the text only). However, it is still useful, primarily for >Web develpment. I disagree with the last four "'word's". For a large majority of the pages that I frequently read, ZTO makes the text easier to read without expanding the pictures (which I do not want enlarged) and the circumambient blurb (which I do not want). Some pages not designed for ZTO fail unreadably with ZTO in use, most do not have significant visible defects. My preferred window size is reasonable, usually 1280 px wide; and my eyesight is satisfactory in spite of my seniority. YSCIB. -- (c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME. Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-16 17:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <MD9VbdJJPgzQFwCP@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> |
| In reply to | #17710 |
In comp.lang.javascript message <lcpoc8hvni8ttfoja2e5d43po7d6buq9kh@4ax.
com>, Sun, 16 Dec 2012 00:23:29, Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au>
posted:
>On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 00:39:34 +0000, in comp.lang.javascript Dr J R
>Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid>
><LrPUxRYGb8yQFwJf@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> wrote:
>
>>| In comp.lang.javascript message <43ekc81dc1h70ji7sfht92m4p4s3fp0v3f@4ax.
>>| com>, Fri, 14 Dec 2012 08:01:21, Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au>
>>| posted:
>>|
>>| >On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 21:07:04 +0000, in comp.lang.javascript Dr J R
>>| >Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid>
>>| ><Y6wAFuQ4HPyQFw7P@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> wrote:
>>| >
>>| >>| In comp.lang.javascript message <18e8688c-731a-46ce-b81f-bdf3b30e1a5d@10
>>| >>| g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:53:39, Scott Sauyet
>>| >[snip]
>>| >>| >I did try to make it clear that my design skills are not strong. I'm
>>| >>| >assuming that there will be someone here who could help create CSS
>>| >>| >that would meet the group's goals for clarity and attractiveness.
>>| >>|
>>| >>| This is a newsgroup. No design skills should be used. Plain text won
>>| >>| WWII; the losers started with Fraktur or similar; the other losers
>>| >>| favoured squashed spiders. Any tarting up will reduce accessibility for
>>| >>| some.
>>| >
>>| >How will accessibility be reduced? There are no images, no multi-media
>>| >areas (video or audio) there is no Flash Player required. There isn't
>>| >even any JavaScript on the page (except for code examples).
>>| >
>>| >As I understand it - the source files will be plain text using
>>| >markdown syntax. When viewed as a web page the markdown syntax is
>>| >converted to html elements. The CSS is required to format the text.
>>| >The only accessibility problems that I can see is, if for some strange
>>| >reason, there was a use of a crazy colour scheme.
>>|
>>| You use too much jargon. What is markdown? Give examples or
>>| recommended URLs.
>
>Haven't you been following this thread? Anyway here is a link - with
>examples.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown
>
>
>>| >Having a look at the faq.css file that is used to format the current
>>| >FAQ - I would vote to keep this same styling.
>>| >
>>| >BTW: you own home page fails the WAI Level 1 test with 115 errors.
>>|
>>| Jargon. What and where is this test? Give URL.
>
>You're the one complaining about "reduce accessibility for some" yet
>you don't understand the w3c standards or jargon.
>
>Google "wai online validator". There should be something there for you
>within the 1.6million hits.
You should give the URL of the validator that you are referring to.
>>| >>| Eschew surplusage.
>>| >
>>| >How so? How would the use of CSS cause excessive or nonessential
>>| >matter?
>>|
>>| If any of the CSS is not NEEDED, then it is eschewable surplusage.
>
>So, if one CSS declaration is not needed on a single page then the
>whole site should not use CSS.
Try an EFL course. It may work.
>Your own site has 31 declarations not used. Is this an example of
>"eschewable surplusage"?
To be helpful, you could give the URLs of the pages that you have looked
at, and the declarations that you think have not been used in my site.
I'd not be surprised if a few had become now redundant. But there seems
to be fewer than 50 CSS "variables", and I am sure that most, at least,
are used.
>>| >>| >> I cannot see whether you have done so, and it may in this case be
>>| >>| >> totally irrelevant. BUT: also, all Web pages should be tested with
>>| >>| >> Firefox Zoom Text Only. FireFox is a major browser, and ZTO
>>| >>| >>can be much
>>| >>| >> appreciated, especially by older readers.
>>| >>| >
>>| >>| >I'm not sure there is a difference between Firefox's normal zoom mode
>>| >>| >and ZTO in a text-only page, but all the fonts will certainly scale
>>| >>| >properly in the design that's there.
>>| >>|
>>| >>| To be sure, test. Test ASAP.
>>| >>|
>>| >>| If it is fundamentally an ASCII document, it will be OK. But introduce
>>| >>| _any_ CSS layout with units other than (AFAIR) em & ex, and failure is
>>| >>| probable.
>>| >
>>| >What a load of croc. Open a plain text file in your browser then do
>>| >the ctrl-+ and ctrl-- thing. The browser will zoom the text regardless
>>| >if there is a stylesheet attached or not.
>>|
>>| I put CSS, not stylesheet.
>
>CSS = Cascading Style Sheet.
>
>>| Indeed it will zoom the text. But you seem not to have noticed the O in
>>| ZTO = Zoom Text Only. Consider these two crude pseudo-buttons :
>>|
>>| <div style="height:20px; width: 60px; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div>
>>| <br>
>>| <div style="height:2.5ex; width: 9ex; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div>
>
>I've test the above in FF 17.0.1, Chrome 23.0.1271.97 m, Safari 5.1.2,
>Opera 12.11 and IE 10.0.9200. Using the browser's default zoom
>controls (ctrl+ and ctrl-) there is no difference in either of the
>texts.
Then it seems clear that you have not used Zoom Text Only, since my
versions of IE, Chrome, and Opera on this PC do not have it, AFAICS.
The important points about Zoom Text Only are that it is controlled by
way of a control with that name; and that the name is not a full
description of the effect. For more, search my site for "dog" (8 hits,
choose one).
>>| and notice the difference in behaviour with and without ZTO in Firefox.
>
>Where is this option within Firefox. I'm using FF 17.0.1.
In the obvious place. Of course, if you have turned off the relevant
menu bar (or not turned it on), the place will not be obvious.
>>| >>| Just roam the Web using Firefox with ZTO turned on, and try a few steps
>>| >>| UP of Ctrl-wheel on each site. Start, say, with a Google search results
>>| >>| page - the results are OK, the foot is neatly OK, the top fails. Try
>>| >>| www.nasa.gov. Try the heartlands of incompetence, www.usa.gov
>>| >>| &http://www.whitehouse.gov/. Contrast https://www.gov.uk/ - and
>>| >>| http://www.whitehouse.gov/our-government !!. But why "our"? - the WWW
>>| >>| is WW. Parochial. http://www.canada.gc.ca/home.html is nearly right.
>>| >>| http://www.govern.ad/ is rather good.
>>| >
>>| >Have you seen your page zoomed to 500%?
>>|
>>| In which browser, on what system, and with what screen size?
>
>All browsers, all systems and all screen sizes.
Only one of my browsers appears to have a 500% setting. You must have a
wonderful set of systems if you can test at all screen sizes.
>>|
>>| >>| >> and I rather dislike coloured ink for basic text.
>>| >>| >
>>| >>| >Again, I'm assuming that the design will be thrown away eventually.
>>| >>| >I'm mostly interested in the infrastructure at this point.
>>| >>|
>>| >>| Indeed. But you are including that which should not be there.
>>| >>|
>>| >>| One should, by the way, also test printing in various browsers. One of
>>| >>| our local help-the-people sites is OK on screen for me, dark enough text
>>| >>| on light enough. But, printed in one common browser, the text is
>>| >>| undesirably faint, though readable in a good light etc. Printed in
>>| >>| another common browser, that part of the paper could easily be reused as
>>| >>| lightly shop-soiled white paper. I expect that using black text on
>>| >>| white or light pastel background on screen, with no special media CSS,
>>| >>| would have been fine.
>>|
>>| >Nothing special about:
>>| >@media print {
>>| > body, html {
>>| > background-color: white !important;
>>| > color: black !important;
>>| > }
>>| >}
>>|
>>| If there is nothing special about it, then it serves no purpose. You
>>| may know what it does, but many will not. I do not know what the site
>>| was, and the paper is now in a sickroom.
>>|
>>| But I did not say anything about using media CSS: I was saying what I
>>| expect to actually happen with the page as described - which would have
>>| also been easier to read on-screen. Informative pages should not be
>>| decorated to such an extent that print media CSS is needed for the
>>| information to be readable in print.
>
>Then maybe you should remove the colours off your own web site. When
>you print the pages from your web site you get a dark gray background
>with black text. Not the easiest to read.
But I rarely do that. I usually only print other people's pages. And a
test print of the first page of my humorous.htm comes out in
black'n'colour on white. Perhaps you have infelicitous settings. Note:
if you read that, you should see the word "Kangaroos". There are some
of those near the dog.
>>| And one should still test in various browsers, in case anything
>>| unforeseen happens.
>>|
>>|
>>| Additionally, US authors should test-print on A4 paper, which is used
>>| almost world-wide, rather than testing only on antiquated Imperial-sized
>>| stuff.
>
>http://jibbering.com/faq/#printSettings
Not helpful. JavaScript and stylesheets cannot control the size and
shape of the paper that is put into the printer. Note that non-US
authors should test only on A4 and its associates, to encourage
intelligent world standardisation.
Anyway, the entire section 10.9 is misconceived. Print settings can be
changed by politely asking the user to change them before printing.
Q for others : why was PDP 014747 amusing?
--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Proper <= 4-line sig. separator as above, a line exactly "-- " (SonOfRFC1036)
Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "> " (SonOfRFC1036)
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| From | Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-18 17:15 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <pm4tc8lg858c9k35bpqo7mqhb2892ud07l@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #17724 |
On Sun, 16 Dec 2012 17:24:25 +0000, in comp.lang.javascript Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> <MD9VbdJJPgzQFwCP@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> wrote: >| In comp.lang.javascript message <lcpoc8hvni8ttfoja2e5d43po7d6buq9kh@4ax. >| com>, Sun, 16 Dec 2012 00:23:29, Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> >| posted: >| >| >On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 00:39:34 +0000, in comp.lang.javascript Dr J R >| >Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> >| ><LrPUxRYGb8yQFwJf@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> wrote: [snip] >| >>| >Having a look at the faq.css file that is used to format the current >| >>| >FAQ - I would vote to keep this same styling. >| >>| > >| >>| >BTW: you own home page fails the WAI Level 1 test with 115 errors. >| >>| >| >>| Jargon. What and where is this test? Give URL. >| > >| >You're the one complaining about "reduce accessibility for some" yet >| >you don't understand the w3c standards or jargon. >| > >| >Google "wai online validator". There should be something there for you >| >within the 1.6million hits. >| >| You should give the URL of the validator that you are referring to. If you must know, which I sincerely doubt, I was using a FF plugin. >| >>| >>| Eschew surplusage. >| >>| > >| >>| >How so? How would the use of CSS cause excessive or nonessential >| >>| >matter? >| >>| >| >>| If any of the CSS is not NEEDED, then it is eschewable surplusage. >| > >| >So, if one CSS declaration is not needed on a single page then the >| >whole site should not use CSS. >| >| Try an EFL course. It may work. >| >| >Your own site has 31 declarations not used. Is this an example of >| >"eschewable surplusage"? >| >| To be helpful, you could give the URLs of the pages that you have looked >| at, and the declarations that you think have not been used in my site. >| I'd not be surprised if a few had become now redundant. But there seems >| to be fewer than 50 CSS "variables", and I am sure that most, at least, >| are used. CSS doesn't use variables - it uses declarations (unless you are using something like SASS, SCSS or LESS). http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ referencing http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/styles-a.css 6 textarea 8 button 13 fieldset 15 span.EQN 17 .AND 21 .FLT 23 .FRT 27 form,.TRY,.SRC,.OPT 30 form,.TRY 33 .SRC 34 .OPT 35 .OPT 43 .FAT 46 .INL 52 .ALT 54 .ART 56 .UND 58 .STK 64 .ITL 66 .TTY 68 .PRP 70 .BCP 72 .NUN 74 .HID 76 .CLB 78 .MID 80 .NOW [snip] >| > >| >>| Indeed it will zoom the text. But you seem not to have noticed the O in >| >>| ZTO = Zoom Text Only. Consider these two crude pseudo-buttons : >| >>| >| >>| <div style="height:20px; width: 60px; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div> >| >>| <br> >| >>| <div style="height:2.5ex; width: 9ex; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div> >| > >| >I've test the above in FF 17.0.1, Chrome 23.0.1271.97 m, Safari 5.1.2, >| >Opera 12.11 and IE 10.0.9200. Using the browser's default zoom >| >controls (ctrl+ and ctrl-) there is no difference in either of the >| >texts. >| >| Then it seems clear that you have not used Zoom Text Only, since my >| versions of IE, Chrome, and Opera on this PC do not have it, AFAICS. >| The important points about Zoom Text Only are that it is controlled by >| way of a control with that name; and that the name is not a full >| description of the effect. For more, search my site for "dog" (8 hits, >| choose one). WOW you've stumbled across the reason for not using px. How many years has this been a web standard? Secondly, ZTO maybe useful for developers but since most browsers have this option hidden or doesn't support it then the average user wouldn't know about it and would default to the full page zoom feature. Therefore ZTO has very limited use. IOW you are making mountains out of mole hills. >| >>| and notice the difference in behaviour with and without ZTO in Firefox. >| > >| >Where is this option within Firefox. I'm using FF 17.0.1. >| >| In the obvious place. Of course, if you have turned off the relevant >| menu bar (or not turned it on), the place will not be obvious. Can you contort yourself any further? >| >>| >>| Just roam the Web using Firefox with ZTO turned on, and try a few steps >| >>| >>| UP of Ctrl-wheel on each site. Start, say, with a Google search results >| >>| >>| page - the results are OK, the foot is neatly OK, the top fails. Try >| >>| >>| www.nasa.gov. Try the heartlands of incompetence, www.usa.gov >| >>| >>| &http://www.whitehouse.gov/. Contrast https://www.gov.uk/ - and >| >>| >>| http://www.whitehouse.gov/our-government !!. But why "our"? - the WWW >| >>| >>| is WW. Parochial. http://www.canada.gc.ca/home.html is nearly right. >| >>| >>| http://www.govern.ad/ is rather good. >| >>| > >| >>| >Have you seen your page zoomed to 500%? >| >>| >| >>| In which browser, on what system, and with what screen size? >| > >| >All browsers, all systems and all screen sizes. >| >| Only one of my browsers appears to have a 500% setting. IE 10 can zoom to 1250%. >| You must have a >| wonderful set of systems if you can test at all screen sizes. Playing stupid I see. The zoom level if not relevant to screen/viewport size. [snip] >| >>| And one should still test in various browsers, in case anything >| >>| unforeseen happens. >| >>| >| >>| >| >>| Additionally, US authors should test-print on A4 paper, which is used >| >>| almost world-wide, rather than testing only on antiquated Imperial-sized >| >>| stuff. >| > >| >http://jibbering.com/faq/#printSettings >| >| Not helpful. JavaScript and stylesheets cannot control the size and >| shape of the paper that is put into the printer. Note that non-US >| authors should test only on A4 and its associates, to encourage >| intelligent world standardisation. Read your first sentence then apply it to the second sentence. >| Anyway, the entire section 10.9 is misconceived. Print settings can be >| changed by politely asking the user to change them before printing. ... and if they refuse to do so? The printing of web pages is seldom done. Why should a user change the page settings just for your site only to have it affect their Word or Excel printouts?
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| From | Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-19 18:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ki+PjhMb4g0QFwd8@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> |
| In reply to | #17750 |
In comp.lang.javascript message <pm4tc8lg858c9k35bpqo7mqhb2892ud07l@4ax. com>, Tue, 18 Dec 2012 17:15:16, Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> posted: >On Sun, 16 Dec 2012 17:24:25 +0000, in comp.lang.javascript Dr J R >Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> ><MD9VbdJJPgzQFwCP@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> wrote: > >>| In comp.lang.javascript message <lcpoc8hvni8ttfoja2e5d43po7d6buq9kh@4ax. >>| com>, Sun, 16 Dec 2012 00:23:29, Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> >>| posted: >>| >>| >On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 00:39:34 +0000, in comp.lang.javascript Dr J R >>| >Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> >>| ><LrPUxRYGb8yQFwJf@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> wrote: > > >[snip] > >>| >>| >Having a look at the faq.css file that is used to format the current >>| >>| >FAQ - I would vote to keep this same styling. >>| >>| > >>| >>| >BTW: you own home page fails the WAI Level 1 test with 115 errors. >>| >>| >>| >>| Jargon. What and where is this test? Give URL. >>| > >>| >You're the one complaining about "reduce accessibility for some" yet >>| >you don't understand the w3c standards or jargon. >>| > >>| >Google "wai online validator". There should be something there for you >>| >within the 1.6million hits. >>| >>| You should give the URL of the validator that you are referring to. > >If you must know, which I sincerely doubt, I was using a FF plugin. But you do not say which plugin or where from. And one should not be expected to install plugins just in order to verify your assertions in News. >>| >>| >>| Eschew surplusage. >>| >>| > >>| >>| >How so? How would the use of CSS cause excessive or nonessential >>| >>| >matter? >>| >>| >>| >>| If any of the CSS is not NEEDED, then it is eschewable surplusage. >>| > >>| >So, if one CSS declaration is not needed on a single page then the >>| >whole site should not use CSS. >>| >>| Try an EFL course. It may work. >>| >>| >Your own site has 31 declarations not used. Is this an example of >>| >"eschewable surplusage"? >>| >>| To be helpful, you could give the URLs of the pages that you have looked >>| at, and the declarations that you think have not been used in my site. >>| I'd not be surprised if a few had become now redundant. But there seems >>| to be fewer than 50 CSS "variables", and I am sure that most, at least, >>| are used. > >CSS doesn't use variables - it uses declarations (unless you are using >something like SASS, SCSS or LESS). Indeed. The correct word escaped me at the moment of writing, which is why "variables" is quoted. EFL. > >http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ referencing >http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/styles-a.css >6 textarea >8 button >13 fieldset >15 span.EQN >17 .AND >21 .FLT >23 .FRT >27 form,.TRY,.SRC,.OPT >30 form,.TRY >33 .SRC >34 .OPT >35 .OPT >43 .FAT >46 .INL >52 .ALT >54 .ART >56 .UND >58 .STK >64 .ITL >66 .TTY >68 .PRP >70 .BCP >72 .NUN >74 .HID >76 .CLB >78 .MID >80 .NOW > >[snip] I see no point in tailoring a different CSS file for each different page. That CSS file is used on the vast majority of my pages; and it is cached once for a whole trip around the site, and short-term following trips. It is not a large file - the master copy is 3726 bytes - and none of those sections is large. The real question that you should have asked yourself is "Are any of those entries never used in the whole site, or used only in one page?" There is at least such; as an exercise, you can locate all that may exist. The same principle applies to include files. >>| >>| Indeed it will zoom the text. But you seem not to have noticed the O in >>| >>| ZTO = Zoom Text Only. Consider these two crude pseudo-buttons : >>| >>| >>| >>| <div style="height:20px; width: 60px; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div> >>| >>| <br> >>| >>| <div style="height:2.5ex; width: 9ex; background:cyan;">AAAAA</div> >>| > >>| >I've test the above in FF 17.0.1, Chrome 23.0.1271.97 m, Safari 5.1.2, >>| >Opera 12.11 and IE 10.0.9200. Using the browser's default zoom >>| >controls (ctrl+ and ctrl-) there is no difference in either of the >>| >texts. >>| >>| Then it seems clear that you have not used Zoom Text Only, since my >>| versions of IE, Chrome, and Opera on this PC do not have it, AFAICS. >>| The important points about Zoom Text Only are that it is controlled by >>| way of a control with that name; and that the name is not a full >>| description of the effect. For more, search my site for "dog" (8 hits, >>| choose one). > >WOW you've stumbled across the reason for not using px. How many years >has this been a web standard? Many, no doubt. For how many years has it been commonly understood and employed by the majorities of Web programmers and of readers of this group? None, I think. >Secondly, ZTO maybe useful for developers but since most browsers have >this option hidden or doesn't support it then the average user >wouldn't know about it and would default to the full page zoom >feature. Therefore ZTO has very limited use. IOW you are making >mountains out of mole hills. It has use; albeit to the more intelligent users, who know that it exists. >>| >>| and notice the difference in behaviour with and without ZTO in Firefox. >>| > >>| >Where is this option within Firefox. I'm using FF 17.0.1. >>| >>| In the obvious place. Of course, if you have turned off the relevant >>| menu bar (or not turned it on), the place will not be obvious. > >Can you contort yourself any further? EFL. >>| >>| >>| Just roam the Web using Firefox with ZTO turned on, and try >>| >>| >>|a few steps >>| >>| >>| UP of Ctrl-wheel on each site. Start, say, with a Google >>| >>| >>|search results >>| >>| >>| page - the results are OK, the foot is neatly OK, the top >>| >>| >>|fails. Try >>| >>| >>| www.nasa.gov. Try the heartlands of incompetence, www.usa.gov >>| >>| >>| &http://www.whitehouse.gov/. Contrast https://www.gov.uk/ - and >>| >>| >>| http://www.whitehouse.gov/our-government !!. But why "our"? >>| >>| >>|- the WWW >>| >>| >>| is WW. Parochial. http://www.canada.gc.ca/home.html is >>| >>| >>|nearly right. >>| >>| >>| http://www.govern.ad/ is rather good. >>| >>| > >>| >>| >Have you seen your page zoomed to 500%? >>| >>| >>| >>| In which browser, on what system, and with what screen size? >>| > >>| >All browsers, all systems and all screen sizes. >>| >>| Only one of my browsers appears to have a 500% setting. > >IE 10 can zoom to 1250%. I do not have IE10. >>| You must have a >>| wonderful set of systems if you can test at all screen sizes. > >Playing stupid I see. The zoom level if not relevant to >screen/viewport size. But you wrote about all screen sizes, and so you should have tested at all screen sizes. And all browsers. And all systems. >[snip] > >>| >>| And one should still test in various browsers, in case anything >>| >>| unforeseen happens. >>| >>| >>| >>| >>| >>| Additionally, US authors should test-print on A4 paper, which is used >>| >>| almost world-wide, rather than testing only on antiquated Imperial-sized >>| >>| stuff. >>| > >>| >http://jibbering.com/faq/#printSettings >>| >>| Not helpful. JavaScript and stylesheets cannot control the size and >>| shape of the paper that is put into the printer. Note that non-US >>| authors should test only on A4 and its associates, to encourage >>| intelligent world standardisation. > >Read your first sentence then apply it to the second sentence. > >>| Anyway, the entire section 10.9 is misconceived. Print settings can be >>| changed by politely asking the user to change them before printing. > >... and if they refuse to do so? That is up to them to choose. >The printing of web pages is seldom done. Badly timed. For a useful Christmas present, I've lately printed out more Web pages "at once" than I usually print in a year (the pages are available to the well-informed public, but are not found by search engines). >Why should a user change the >page settings just for your site only to have it affect their Word or >Excel printouts? The average user only prints one set of pages at a time, and is intelligent enough to revert such setting changes directly after use. YMMV. -- (c) John Stockton, nr London UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk DOS 3.3, 6.20; WinXP. Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQqish topics, acronyms and links. PAS EXE TXT ZIP via <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/00index.htm> My DOS <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/batfiles.htm> - also batprogs.htm.
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| From | Osmo Saarikumpu <osmo@weppipakki.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-27 23:03 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <kbid2u$5ci$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #17750 |
On 18.12.2012 8:15, Jeff North wrote: > The printing of web pages is seldom done. And how, please reveal, are you discerning this? I, for one, find myself printing "web pages" constantly, especially travel documents and such. And not only me, but friends and family are incessantly contacting me because of my printing facilities. -- Best wishes, Osmo
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| From | Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-28 11:14 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <u0ppd8h1v0rjid5uo0dt8g312s7pno8mgv@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #17848 |
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 23:03:29 +0200, in comp.lang.javascript Osmo Saarikumpu <osmo@weppipakki.com> <kbid2u$5ci$1@speranza.aioe.org> wrote: >| On 18.12.2012 8:15, Jeff North wrote: >| >| > The printing of web pages is seldom done. >| >| And how, please reveal, are you discerning this? I, for one, find myself >| printing "web pages" constantly, especially travel documents and such. Do you print out every web page that you visit? Seledom != never. >| And not only me, but friends and family are incessantly contacting me >| because of my printing facilities. I hope you are charging them commercial rates for the printouts.
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| From | "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-28 09:12 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA1375DA021063eejj99@194.109.133.133> |
| In reply to | #17855 |
Jeff North wrote on 28 dec 2012 in comp.lang.javascript: > On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 23:03:29 +0200, in comp.lang.javascript Osmo > Saarikumpu <osmo@weppipakki.com> > <kbid2u$5ci$1@speranza.aioe.org> wrote: > >>| On 18.12.2012 8:15, Jeff North wrote: >>| >>| > The printing of web pages is seldom done. >>| >>| And how, please reveal, are you discerning this? I, for one, find >>| myself printing "web pages" constantly, especially travel documents >>| and such. > > Do you print out every web page that you visit? Seledom != never. > >>| And not only me, but friends and family are incessantly contacting >>| me because of my printing facilities. > > I hope you are charging them commercial rates for the printouts. Some of my pages are the result of database requests and can additionally be formatted clientside by interactive js/css, and the resolt is ment to be printed out [to pdf.] Some of my pages are just ment for my personal use in manipulating databases or for only one person in the organisation of that website. [Using the right-click for other than standard use is sometimes perfectly handy in these cases.] Focusing only on a supposed "typical" "one to many" website in the FAQ is not logical for this NG, like it is not logical to implicitly presume browser js in the FAQ. -- Evertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
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| From | Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-08 18:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <UK9DZdNEX4wQFwZw@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> |
| In reply to | #17560 |
In comp.lang.javascript message <11045641.EKsec1E7oM@PointedEars.de>, Fri, 7 Dec 2012 14:32:05, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> posted: >What you are proposing is for me to create a new FAQ from scratch instead, >in my free time, while the current outdated FAQ continues to be online as >*the* cljs FAQ, continues to be posted daily here, and going to waste. >Because as I understand it I can not simply copy the current FAQ content and >do with it as I please; nor would I want to. If you want to write a FAQ, do it on your tatty Web site, and announce it here. This group can then assess whether it is worth recommending, and in what fashion; or whether is should be described adversely. It seems likely that Jim Ley would be happy, if requested by someone appropriate (such as me), to make a one-off edit to the current FAQ inserting a suitable provided link text. -- (c) John Stockton, nr London UK. Mail, see homepage. DOS 3.3, 6.20; WinXP, 7. Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links. PAS EXE TXT ZIP via <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/00index.htm> My DOS <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/batfiles.htm> - also batprogs.htm.
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| From | Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-07 10:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <timstreater-543CFC.10115407122012@news.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #17550 |
In article <2458355.mBAsdCNDOn@PointedEars.de>, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> wrote: > Patricia Shanahan wrote: > > Obviously, anyone who gets scared away is not going to be a contributor > > in the future. We will never know whether a given individual would have > > become a valuable regular contributor given more encouraging treatment. > > No, my point and observation is that a person who is not asking their > question in a smart way and will be scared of by comments as to that is just > a hit-and-run luser who has no intention of becoming a regular contributor > in the first place. And it is only those who are sometimes met with what > seems like hostility because of the way they ask their question (if they > even ask for, and not simply *demand* a solution). > Instead, it is the majority of the generation who has grown up without > Usenet who have changed for the worse; who have acquired a customer > mentality that makes them believe they do not need to make *any* effort in > order to solve their problem. And *that* is the cause of them being treated > unfriendly (if at all), because they are doing this at the expense of (the > free time of) everybody else. Hit-and-run lusers with delusions of grandeur > and entitlement. I have no problem seeing them leave. Here we have it in black and white from PointyHead's own mouth. Only smart users need apply; if you are puzzled, confused, or are having trouble formulating a question so PointyHead can give a yes/no answer, then as far as he is concerned you can fuck right off. -- Tim "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-13 09:25 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <gn3kc8l9fvqjmb5oengup2hgn5smfgc629@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #17527 |
On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 18:59:33 +0100, Christoph Becker
<cmbecker69@gmx.de> wrote:
>Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
[snip]
>> For example, if someone thinks that you are telling or doing
>> nonsense, you will be told upfront, in public, that what you are
>> telling or doing *is* nonsense. You will not be told that it would be
>> “not quite right” in order to pamper your oversensitive customer
>> soul.
>
>IMHO some kindness and politeness will never hurt.[1] Perhaps the one
>who's telling or doing nonsense today, would have been a valuable
>regular contributor to the newsgroup tomorrow, if he had not been scared
>away.
I was just reading today in another newsgroup where
comp.lang.javascript was mentioned. One poster had tried it years ago
and was quite turned off by the ill manners he ran into. What do you
think the impression of comp.lang.javascript is there now? Lower than
it could be.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| From | Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-14 07:26 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <t9ednSR3ru1jpFfNnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #17695 |
On 14/12/2012 4:25 AM, Gene Wirchenko wrote: > On Thu, 06 Dec 2012 18:59:33 +0100, Christoph Becker > <cmbecker69@gmx.de> wrote: > >> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: > > [snip] > >>> For example, if someone thinks that you are telling or doing >>> nonsense, you will be told upfront, in public, that what you are >>> telling or doing *is* nonsense. You will not be told that it would be >>> “not quite right” in order to pamper your over sensitive customer >>> soul. >> >> IMHO some kindness and politeness will never hurt.[1] Perhaps the one >> who's telling or doing nonsense today, would have been a valuable >> regular contributor to the newsgroup tomorrow, if he had not been scared >> away. > > I was just reading today in another newsgroup where > comp.lang.javascript was mentioned. One poster had tried it years ago > and was quite turned off by the ill manners he ran into. What do you > think the impression of comp.lang.javascript is there now? Lower than > it could be. Really? Someone was quite turned off by ill manners on the internet! Next you'll be telling me that someone else found a factual error. Andrew Poulos
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| From | "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-13 21:45 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA128DD575E0E9eejj99@194.109.133.133> |
| In reply to | #17695 |
Gene Wirchenko wrote on 13 dec 2012 in comp.lang.javascript: > I was just reading today in another newsgroup where > comp.lang.javascript was mentioned. One poster had tried it years ago > and was quite turned off by the ill manners he ran into. What do you > think the impression of comp.lang.javascript is there now? Lower than > it could be. Well Gene, I don't think a Usenet NG is ment to make an impression, be it good or bad. I don't think such impression should be the goal or norm of the users. This NG is for discussion of Javascript, and that it does. It is not a helpdesk and it is not a forum to keep people being "turned off" by bad manners of some. If you don't like a/this Usenet NG, you are free not to read the group. If you like good manners, please contribute to the discussions in that way. Perhaps your example of "good" manners will help your goal. I couldn't care less if the manners of some are strange, rude or bad in somone elses eyes. I think the repetitive discussion of manners becomes a tiny bit off topic. Let's talk Javascript, damn it. -- Evertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
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| From | Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-07 21:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <2AerrtQJplwQFwMv@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> |
| In reply to | #17514 |
In comp.lang.javascript message <2177393.4orgOXNLzl@PointedEars.de>, Thu, 6 Dec 2012 16:09:20, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> posted: > >IOW, should the subscribers of this newsgroup ever agree that it became a >customer support forum, I am gone. This is not a threat; it is a fact. Let us all vote for that. The main purpose of computing newsgroups is to be support forums. Dessicated esoteric discussions should be taken to more private groups. -- (c) John Stockton, nr London UK. Mail, see homepage. DOS 3.3, 6.20; WinXP, 7. Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links. PAS EXE TXT ZIP via <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/00index.htm> My DOS <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/batfiles.htm> - also batprogs.htm.
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-08 02:45 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1476348.1Akpal8nx8@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #17581 |
Dr J R Stockton wrote: > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn posted: >> IOW, should the subscribers of this newsgroup ever agree that it became a >> customer support forum, I am gone. This is not a threat; it is a fact. > > Let us all vote for that. The main purpose of computing newsgroups is > to be support forums. Dessicated esoteric discussions should be taken > to more private groups. Straw man. (If only that posting was in any way surprising.) -- PointedEars
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| From | Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-12-08 13:30 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <gcGdnaOcSMjLO1_NnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #17581 |
On 8/12/2012 8:06 AM, Dr J R Stockton wrote: > In comp.lang.javascript message <2177393.4orgOXNLzl@PointedEars.de>, > Thu, 6 Dec 2012 16:09:20, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> > posted: > >> >> IOW, should the subscribers of this newsgroup ever agree that it became a >> customer support forum, I am gone. This is not a threat; it is a fact. > > Let us all vote for that. The main purpose of computing newsgroups is > to be support forums. Dessicated esoteric discussions should be taken > to more private groups. The main purposes of NGs are in fact to: - connect with peers - hold online discussions - exchange files That people ask questions, that usually get answered, in comp.lang.javascript doesn't make it a support forum. BTW is "dessicated" an English word? So far as my English Oxford Dictionary is concerned its not, while "desiccated" is. Andrew Poulos
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