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Groups > comp.lang.javascript > #17308 > unrolled thread

Maintainer of the FAQ

Started byAsen Bozhilov <asen.bozhilov@gmail.com>
First post2012-11-19 13:00 -0800
Last post2012-12-23 19:13 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 226 — 28 participants

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Contents

  Maintainer of the FAQ Asen Bozhilov <asen.bozhilov@gmail.com> - 2012-11-19 13:00 -0800
    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-11-19 13:34 -0800
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ RobG <rgqld@iinet.net.au> - 2012-11-20 01:25 -0800
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-11-20 13:39 +0100
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Asen Bozhilov <asen.bozhilov@gmail.com> - 2012-11-20 11:24 -0800
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-21 19:19 +0000
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-11-22 14:09 +1100
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-20 19:50 +0000
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-11-20 19:56 -0800
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-11-21 11:24 +0100
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-22 23:34 +0000
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-11-23 11:07 -0800
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-24 18:30 +0000
    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ jim.ley@gmail.com - 2012-11-22 03:06 -0800
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Asen Bozhilov <asen.bozhilov@gmail.com> - 2012-11-22 07:15 -0800
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> - 2012-11-22 08:48 -0700
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-23 20:00 +0000
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-11-24 10:36 +0100
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1247@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-11-25 19:16 +0000
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-11-26 10:18 +0000
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-11-26 12:50 +0200
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-11-30 14:23 -0500
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-01 09:24 +0000
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-12-01 08:45 -0500
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-12-01 16:17 +0200
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-12 19:30 -0800
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-01 18:50 +0100
    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-02 19:25 +0100
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-02 21:31 +0100
    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Asen Bozhilov <asen.bozhilov@gmail.com> - 2012-12-05 03:48 -0800
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-05 12:55 +0100
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-12-05 14:52 +0200
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-06 06:16 +1100
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-12-05 16:56 -0500
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-12-06 00:20 +0200
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-05 14:47 -0800
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 07:11 -0800
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 08:37 -0800
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-06 17:50 +0100
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 08:57 -0800
                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-06 18:32 +0100
                        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 10:34 -0800
                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-07 11:05 +0000
                            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-07 07:21 -0800
                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-11 09:01 -0800
                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-12 19:37 -0800
                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-12-07 11:24 -0500
                            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-11 09:00 -0800
                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-07 20:54 +0000
                        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-12-08 03:42 +0100
                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2012-12-08 02:53 +0000
                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-09 16:43 +0000
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-07 11:16 +0000
                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-08 18:45 +0000
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 10:40 -0800
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-06 15:16 +0000
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 08:48 -0800
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-12-06 18:31 +0000
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-06 23:06 +0000
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 16:24 -0800
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-08 18:06 +0000
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 01:29 +0100
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-12-05 22:24 +0000
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-05 23:36 +0100
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 00:35 +0100
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-07 10:45 +1100
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 16:01 -0800
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-07 21:00 +0000
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-12-08 10:17 +0000
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 01:12 +0100
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 23:22 +0100
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-08 04:46 +0100
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-08 15:56 +0000
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-08 09:00 -0800
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2012-12-08 17:54 +0000
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-08 20:53 +0100
                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 11:02 +0100
                    Functions in JavaScript vs. mathematics & the name "JavaScript" "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-12-08 23:31 +0200
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Mike Duffy <Use_guestbook_page@website.in.sig> - 2012-12-09 02:02 +0000
                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 23:12 -0800
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-09 16:44 +0000
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2012-12-10 01:30 -0500
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-08 16:04 +0000
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-08 08:37 -0800
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-08 21:34 +0100
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-08 21:49 +0100
                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-09 11:05 +0000
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-12-06 03:24 +0100
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-06 16:09 +0100
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-06 15:23 +0000
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-06 17:44 +0100
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-07 15:03 +0000
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 09:05 -0800
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-12-06 18:59 +0100
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-12-06 19:24 +0100
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-06 19:26 +0100
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 14:11 -0800
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-07 03:07 +0100
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 18:36 -0800
                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-07 04:11 +0100
                        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-06 20:26 -0800
                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-07 20:40 +1100
                            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-07 01:58 -0800
                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-07 14:32 +0100
                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-07 07:22 -0800
                                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 11:19 -0800
                                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-07 21:11 +0100
                                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-07 16:19 -0800
                                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-08 18:33 +0000
                                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 22:14 -0800
                                        FAQ source format (was: Maintainer of the FAQ) Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 13:56 +0100
                                          Re: FAQ source format Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-09 08:09 -0800
                                            Re: FAQ source format Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 19:12 -0800
                                            Re: FAQ source format Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-10 20:49 +0000
                                          Re: FAQ source format (was: Maintainer of the FAQ) Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 18:59 -0800
                                            Re: FAQ source format Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-09 20:13 -0800
                                              Re: FAQ source format Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 20:50 -0800
                                          Re: FAQ source format (was: Maintainer of the FAQ) Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-10 20:41 +0000
                                            Re: FAQ source format (was: Maintainer of the FAQ) Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 18:09 -0800
                                        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-09 07:06 -0800
                                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-09 19:12 -0800
                                            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-09 20:11 -0800
                                        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-10 20:32 +0000
                                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 17:53 -0800
                                            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-12 21:07 +0000
                                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2012-12-12 21:52 -0500
                                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-13 16:05 +0000
                                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-15 00:40 +0000
                                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-13 08:09 -0800
                                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-15 00:40 +0000
                                                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-15 11:02 -0800
                                                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-16 17:58 +0000
                                                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-17 11:22 +0100
                                                        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-17 10:40 -0800
                                                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-17 20:05 +0100
                                                            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-18 00:31 +0100
                                                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Osmo Saarikumpu <osmo@weppipakki.com> - 2012-12-18 10:18 +0200
                                                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-18 13:38 +0100
                                                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-18 14:59 +0100
                                                                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-18 16:33 +0000
                                                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-18 09:26 -0800
                                                                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-18 23:09 +0100
                                                                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-18 23:47 +0100
                                                                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-18 15:21 -0800
                                                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-18 16:32 +0000
                                                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 08:11 -0800
                                                        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-19 18:26 +0000
                                                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-20 06:55 -0800
                                                            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-21 15:46 +0100
                                                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-21 06:59 -0800
                                                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 08:27 -0800
                                                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-21 19:12 +0100
                                                                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-21 15:30 -0800
                                                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 08:24 -0800
                                                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-21 19:09 +0100
                                                            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-21 20:21 +0000
                                                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-22 08:58 -0800
                                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-14 08:01 +1100
                                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Adam Silver <adambsilver@gmail.com> - 2012-12-14 00:28 -0800
                                                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-15 23:25 +0000
                                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-15 00:39 +0000
                                                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-16 00:23 +1100
                                                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-15 15:00 +0100
                                                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Osmo Saarikumpu <osmo@weppipakki.com> - 2012-12-16 17:14 +0200
                                                        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-17 18:33 +0000
                                                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-16 17:32 +0000
                                                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-16 17:24 +0000
                                                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-18 17:15 +1100
                                                        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-19 18:57 +0000
                                                        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Osmo Saarikumpu <osmo@weppipakki.com> - 2012-12-27 23:03 +0200
                                                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-28 11:14 +1100
                                                            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-28 09:12 +0100
                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-08 18:24 +0000
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-12-07 10:11 +0000
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-13 09:25 -0800
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-14 07:26 +1100
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-12-13 21:45 +0100
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-07 21:06 +0000
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-08 02:45 +0100
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-08 13:30 +1100
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-09 17:00 +0000
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-12-08 10:14 +0000
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-05 09:03 -0800
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-05 18:39 +0100
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-05 11:56 -0800
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-05 12:30 -0800
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-06 08:54 +1100
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-05 23:38 +0100
                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-12-13 14:18 -0500
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1250@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-15 00:09 +0000
                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-16 01:54 +0100
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-17 18:32 +0000
                    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 07:06 -0800
                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-18 17:54 +0100
                        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 11:38 -0800
                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-18 12:50 -0800
                          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-18 23:23 +0100
                            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-18 19:46 -0800
                              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-19 18:10 +0100
                                Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 11:31 -0800
                                  Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-19 22:54 +0100
                      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-19 16:36 +0100
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-12-05 22:49 +0100
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-06 23:21 +0000
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-06 15:08 +0000
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-12-07 01:01 +0100
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Adam Silver <adambsilver@gmail.com> - 2012-12-06 07:40 -0800
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-06 23:51 +0000
    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2012-12-08 02:19 +0000
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2012-12-08 03:57 +0100
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2012-12-08 03:06 +0000
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Cezary Tomczyk <cezary.tomczyk@gmail.com> - 2012-12-08 09:34 +0100
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> - 2012-12-08 13:36 +0000
    Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-22 16:19 +1100
      Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-12-22 08:59 -0800
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-23 13:38 +1100
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-12-23 10:49 +0200
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-23 16:58 -0800
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1252@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-24 21:03 +0000
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-12-27 09:33 -0800
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1252@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-28 21:33 +0000
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-28 11:16 +1100
          Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-28 09:08 +0000
            Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-12-28 22:01 +1100
              Re: Maintainer of the FAQ John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-12-28 11:26 +0000
        Re: Maintainer of the FAQ Dr J R Stockton <reply1251@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-12-23 19:13 +0000

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#17639

FromDr J R Stockton <reply1249@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid>
Date2012-12-09 16:44 +0000
Message-ID<ZoggBKL1$LxQFwiZ@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid>
In reply to#17593
In comp.lang.javascript message <8192572.z9YG5XmbkK@PointedEars.de>,
Sat, 8 Dec 2012 04:46:41, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
posted:

>
>PointedEars

Thank you for that proof of your futility.

-- 
(c) John Stockton, nr London UK.  ???@merlyn.demon.co.uk  Turnpike v6.05  MIME.
 Web  <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
     Check boilerplate spelling -- error is a public sign of incompetence.
    Never fully trust an article from a poster who gives no full real name.

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#17649

FromWally W. <ww84wa@aim.com>
Date2012-12-10 01:30 -0500
Message-ID<e00bc85h4lompcai5kbl37saiek5qc29vs@4ax.com>
In reply to#17593
On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 04:46:41 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

>The term “javascript” (or “Javascript”) is a misnomer, invented by people 
>(or a single person) who do not know better or do not care about using ...

The term "sunrise" is a misnomer, invented by people who (or a single
person) do not know better or do not care about using proper
astronomical concepts that have been known for centuries.

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#17600

FromJohn G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk>
Date2012-12-08 16:04 +0000
Message-ID<w5+GZ7K5T2wQFw+q@J.A830F0FF37FB96852AD08924D9443D28E23ED5CD>
In reply to#17578
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 at 23:22:52, in comp.lang.javascript, Cezary Tomczyk
wrote:

  <snip>
>Personally I think that we should use one name everywhere - I like
>"JavaScript".
  <snip>

If you use 'JavaScript' you have a problem. You would be able to say
'JScript' for Microsoft's product and 'ActionScript' for Adobe's
product, but you would have to say 'Mozilla's JavaScript, I mean the one
in Firefox' for the Mozilla/Firefox product.

  John
-- 
John Harris

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#17602

FromPatricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org>
Date2012-12-08 08:37 -0800
Message-ID<IaKdnVTsG8dM8V7NnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#17600
On 12/8/2012 8:04 AM, John G Harris wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 at 23:22:52, in comp.lang.javascript, Cezary Tomczyk
> wrote:
>
>    <snip>
>> Personally I think that we should use one name everywhere - I like
>> "JavaScript".
>    <snip>
>
> If you use 'JavaScript' you have a problem. You would be able to say
> 'JScript' for Microsoft's product and 'ActionScript' for Adobe's
> product, but you would have to say 'Mozilla's JavaScript, I mean the one
> in Firefox' for the Mozilla/Firefox product.

Even if we used "JScript" it would have to be qualified in many cases to
distinguish the capabilities of different versions of IE.

I suggest being consistent. Use unqualified "JavaScript" when talking
about common features. Use "XXX JavaScript" to restrict a statement to a
particular platform or group of platforms. "XXX" can be as specific as
necessary - "IE" for anything that is true about all versions of
Internet Explorer, "IE9" for features that are first supported in
version 9, etc.

I realize that JavaScript is a trademark, and that should be
acknowledged in the FAQ, but it is widely used in similar writings,
apparently without problems. For example, see the Wikipedia article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript.

I searched on amazon.com for "ECMAScript". The second item did have the
title "What's New in ECMAScript 5". However, most of the first screenful
of results used "JavaScript" in the book title. The general convention
seems to be to use "JavaScript" to refer to the language in general, and
ECMAScript when talking about that particular standardization effort.

If the objective is to write a FAQ people can understand, we have to use
the term most books and other writings use, the term readers will be
used to. That is clearly "JavaScript".

Patricia

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#17607

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2012-12-08 21:34 +0100
Message-ID<15226427.ycHT9A6HPX@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#17602
Patricia Shanahan wrote:

> On 12/8/2012 8:04 AM, John G Harris wrote:
> > If you use 'JavaScript' you have a problem. You would be able to say
> > 'JScript' for Microsoft's product and 'ActionScript' for Adobe's
> > product, but you would have to say 'Mozilla's JavaScript, I mean the one
> > in Firefox' for the Mozilla/Firefox product.
> 
> […]
> I searched on amazon.com for "ECMAScript". The second item did have the
> title "What's New in ECMAScript 5". However, most of the first screenful
> of results used "JavaScript" in the book title. The general convention
> seems to be to use "JavaScript" to refer to the language in general, and
> ECMAScript when talking about that particular standardization effort.
> 
> If the objective is to write a FAQ people can understand, we have to use
> the term most books and other writings use, the term readers will be
> used to. That is clearly "JavaScript".

Your logic is flawed.  Two wrongs make no right.  The FAQ should not promote 
misconceptions of incompetent people (or people who were forced by their 
publishers to change the title, which is essentially the same).


PointedEars
-- 
    realism:    HTML 4.01 Strict
    evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
    madness:    XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
                                                    -- Bjoern Hoehrmann

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#17608

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2012-12-08 21:49 +0100
Message-ID<2627690.c6jmhtmzg9@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#17602
Patricia Shanahan wrote:

> On 12/8/2012 8:04 AM, John G Harris wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 at 23:22:52, in comp.lang.javascript, Cezary Tomczyk
>> wrote:
>>
>>    <snip>
>>> Personally I think that we should use one name everywhere - I like
>>> "JavaScript".
>>    <snip>
>>
>> If you use 'JavaScript' you have a problem. You would be able to say
>> 'JScript' for Microsoft's product and 'ActionScript' for Adobe's
>> product, but you would have to say 'Mozilla's JavaScript, I mean the one
>> in Firefox' for the Mozilla/Firefox product.
> 
> Even if we used "JScript" it would have to be qualified in many cases to
> distinguish the capabilities of different versions of IE.

Correct.  There are different JScript versions as there are versions of 
IE/MSHTML, WSH and ASP (.NET) to support them. [1]  The reader should become 
acquainted with that fact, or they will never be able to write scripts that 
work in different versions of IE/MSHTML, WSH or ASP (.NET).

A problem occurs with JScript 9.0 and 9.1, though, because Microsoft in 
their infinite wisdom[tm] have decided for the new version of the MSDN 
Library to document that language version misleadingly as “Microsoft 
implementation of JavaScript”, while it is nowhere near the capabilities of 
(Mozilla) JavaScript [2].  Also, ScriptEngine() still correctly returns 
"JScript" [3], completing the confusion to beginners.


PointedEars
___________
[1] <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hbxc2t98(VS.85).aspx>
[2] <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/d1et7k7c(VS.94).aspx>
[3] <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/efy5bay1(VS.94).aspx>
-- 
Use any version of Microsoft Frontpage to create your site.
(This won't prevent people from viewing your source, but no one
will want to steal it.)
  -- from <http://www.vortex-webdesign.com/help/hidesource.htm> (404-comp.)

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#17626

FromJohn G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk>
Date2012-12-09 11:05 +0000
Message-ID<zO5ad3I$BHxQFwld@J.A830F0FF37FB96852AD08924D9443D28E23ED5CD>
In reply to#17608
On Sat, 8 Dec 2012 at 21:49:31, in comp.lang.javascript, Thomas 
'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

   <snip>
>A problem occurs with JScript 9.0 and 9.1, though, because Microsoft in
>their infinite wisdom[tm] have decided for the new version of the MSDN
>Library to document that language version misleadingly as “Microsoft
>implementation of JavaScript”,
   <snip>

By coincidence, it's in Microsoft's interests to have 'JavaScript' 
become a generic name, in the same way that 'hoover' keeps threatening 
to become one. Then no-one can refer to those rival open source people's 
product without writing an essay.

   John

OT I remember seeing a car advertised as a "Toyota Land Cruiser jeep".
-- 
John Harris

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#17512

FromChristoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de>
Date2012-12-06 03:24 +0100
Message-ID<k9ovj3$7ff$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#17484
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> There are surely better forums for technical discussions about
> JacaScript nowadays. The best that this group could do is to act as a
> fairly friendly and open forum that welcomes newcomers. From this
> standpoint, I can hardly imagine a worse choice for the FAQ maintainer.

IMHO support in this newsgroup and maintaining the FAQ are not /too/
closely related.  The FAQ should be a sober document; support should be
friendly and kind.

OTOH both shouldn't differ /too/ much. If the FAQ says (2.1):

| The term "javascript" is used as a common name for all dialects of
| ECMAScript.

support answers shouldn't state:

| There is no "javascript".

IMHO that's extremly confusing for newcomers, who have read the FAQ (at
least it was for me).  Avoiding the term "javascript" and instead
speaking of "JavaScript" when actually "ECMAScript" is meant is even
more confusing and wrong.  And when anybody wants to name the language
Brendan Eich developed for Netscape Navigator as Mocha, LiveScript,
JavaScript, which was later standardized as ECMAScript, in all its
dialects and flavors, IMHO it seems to be quite appropriate to use an
artificial name such as "javascript".

Just *my* two cents about /some/ of the issues regarding the new
maintainer of the FAQ.  Definitely nothing that (dis)qualifies Thomas
for this role.

-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#17514

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2012-12-06 16:09 +0100
Message-ID<2177393.4orgOXNLzl@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#17512
Christoph Becker wrote:

> Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
>> There are surely better forums for technical discussions about
>> JacaScript nowadays. The best that this group could do is to act as a
>> fairly friendly and open forum that welcomes newcomers. From this
>> standpoint, I can hardly imagine a worse choice for the FAQ maintainer.
> 
> IMHO support in this newsgroup and maintaining the FAQ are not /too/
> closely related.  The FAQ should be a sober document; support should be
> friendly and kind.

Allow me clarify a few misconceptions you appear to have.

This is a Usenet discussion group, not a customer support forum.  Those who 
give answers here are volunteers, doing this in their free time, for free.  
Which is why politeness here is (as usual) a good idea, but, as you can see 
in many postings by several people, it is *optional*.  For example, if 
someone thinks that you are telling or doing nonsense, you will be told 
upfront, in public, that what you are telling or doing *is* nonsense.  You 
will not be told that it would be “not quite right” in order to pamper your 
oversensitive customer soul.

There is an old saying here: “Usenet is not a right.”  You have no right to 
receive a quick answer.  You have no right to receive a polite answer.  You 
have no right to receive a correct answer.  You have no right to receive an 
answer that helps you.  You have no right to receive an answer *at all*.  
Good answers, and the *free time* invested by people to give them, are 
*earned* by posting interesting, thought-provoking questions and ideas.

That has been so for more than a decade and it should continue to be so, for 
that is how we can weed out the mistakes, and people can become better 
developers than before they subscribed to the newsgroup.  If you cannot deal 
with that approach, please go elsewhere.  Perhaps to those “better forums” 
(which cannot be and actually are _not_ better in terms of *quality*, of 
course).

IOW, should the subscribers of this newsgroup ever agree that it became a 
customer support forum, I am gone.  This is not a threat; it is a fact.

See also <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html> (referred to 
from the FAQ).


HTH

PointedEars
-- 
    realism:    HTML 4.01 Strict
    evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
    madness:    XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
                                                    -- Bjoern Hoehrmann

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#17518

FromJohn G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk>
Date2012-12-06 15:23 +0000
Message-ID<Qw7lqLF2hLwQFwql@J.A830F0FF37FB96852AD08924D9443D28E23ED5CD>
In reply to#17514
On Thu, 6 Dec 2012 at 16:09:20, in comp.lang.javascript, Thomas
'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

  <snip>
>You have no right to receive a polite answer.
  <snip>

**** off.

  John
-- 
John Harris

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#17521

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2012-12-06 17:44 +0100
Message-ID<1782985.ZbPghN5Lpa@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#17518
John G Harris wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> 
>   <snip>
>>You have no right to receive a polite answer.
>   <snip>
> 
> **** off.

There could not be a better example for what I said.  Thank you.


PointedEars
-- 
    realism:    HTML 4.01 Strict
    evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
    madness:    XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
                                                    -- Bjoern Hoehrmann

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#17561

FromJohn G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk>
Date2012-12-07 15:03 +0000
Message-ID<3shegvE2UgwQFw$H@J.A830F0FF37FB96852AD08924D9443D28E23ED5CD>
In reply to#17521
On Thu, 6 Dec 2012 at 17:44:53, in comp.lang.javascript, Thomas
'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>John G Harris wrote:
>
>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>
>>   <snip>
>>>You have no right to receive a polite answer.
>>   <snip>
>>
>> **** off.
>
>There could not be a better example for what I said.  Thank you.

You're welcome.

  John

PS Apologies to John Stockton for spelling spin-off without a hyphen.

-- 
John Harris

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#17525

FromPatricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org>
Date2012-12-06 09:05 -0800
Message-ID<soWdnXSHDusPTV3NnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#17514
On 12/6/2012 7:09 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
...
> There is an old saying here: “Usenet is not a right.”  You have no right to
> receive a quick answer.  You have no right to receive a polite answer.  You
> have no right to receive a correct answer.  You have no right to receive an
> answer that helps you.  You have no right to receive an answer *at all*.
> Good answers, and the *free time* invested by people to give them, are
> *earned* by posting interesting, thought-provoking questions and ideas.
...

I agree that a questioner has no right to an answer. I do think any
human being, in any social interaction, including asking a question in a
technical forum, has a right to common politeness. I have no problem
with not answering a question. I do have a problem with people answering
a question impolitely.

Impolite answers to questions just weed out anyone who does not have
enough self-confidence, and prior commitment to Usenet, to ignore
impoliteness.

Patricia

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#17527

FromChristoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de>
Date2012-12-06 18:59 +0100
Message-ID<k9qmc3$9hq$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#17514
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> IMHO support in this newsgroup and maintaining the FAQ are not 
>> /too/
>>> closely related.  The FAQ should be a sober document; support 
>>> should be friendly and kind.
> Allow me clarify a few misconceptions you appear to have.
> 
> [...]

Thanks for the clarifications; they concur with my conception of a
Usenet discussion group.  And of course I don't want to turn this
newsgroup into a support forum.

> For example, if someone thinks that you are telling or doing 
> nonsense, you will be told upfront, in public, that what you are 
> telling or doing *is* nonsense. You will not be told that it would be
> “not quite right” in order to pamper your oversensitive customer 
> soul.

IMHO some kindness and politeness will never hurt.[1]  Perhaps the one
who's telling or doing nonsense today, would have been a valuable
regular contributor to the newsgroup tomorrow, if he had not been scared
away.

> If you cannot deal with that approach, please go elsewhere.

I can deal with this approach, so I will stay.

> IOW, should the subscribers of this newsgroup ever agree that it 
> became a customer support forum, I am gone.

That would be a great loss for this newsgroup.  (in all honesty)

> This is not a threat; it is a fact.

Everytime *I* have added this to a statement, it was in fact meant as a
threat. ;)

[1] <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#idp30009456>
-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#17528

FromChristoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de>
Date2012-12-06 19:24 +0100
Message-ID<k9qnqq$dr9$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#17527
My apologies for not having properly quoted the beginning of my former
post.  It should have read:

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>
> Christoph Becker wrote:
>
>> Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
>>> There are surely better forums for technical discussions about
>>> JacaScript nowadays. The best that this group could do is to act as a
>>> fairly friendly and open forum that welcomes newcomers. From this
>>> standpoint, I can hardly imagine a worse choice for the FAQ maintainer.
>>
>> IMHO support in this newsgroup and maintaining the FAQ are not /too/
>> closely related.  The FAQ should be a sober document; support should be
>> friendly and kind.
>
> Allow me clarify a few misconceptions you appear to have.

-- 
Christoph M. Becker

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#17529

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2012-12-06 19:26 +0100
Message-ID<1446010.IrhOTgHkso@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#17527
Christoph Becker wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> IMHO support in this newsgroup and maintaining the FAQ are not
>>> /too/
>>>> closely related.  The FAQ should be a sober document; support
>>>> should be friendly and kind.
>> Allow me clarify a few misconceptions you appear to have.
>> 
>> [...]
> 
> Thanks for the clarifications; they concur with my conception of a
> Usenet discussion group.  And of course I don't want to turn this
> newsgroup into a support forum.

Good.

>> For example, if someone thinks that you are telling or doing
>> nonsense, you will be told upfront, in public, that what you are
>> telling or doing *is* nonsense. You will not be told that it would be
>> “not quite right” in order to pamper your oversensitive customer
>> soul.
> 
> IMHO some kindness and politeness will never hurt.[1]

AISB.

> Perhaps the one who's telling or doing nonsense today, would have been a
> valuable regular contributor to the newsgroup tomorrow, if he had not been
> scared away.

In my experience, those who are scared away by being told the truth, usually 
because they have delusions of entitlement, are not going to be valuable 
regular contributors.
 

PointedEars
-- 
    realism:    HTML 4.01 Strict
    evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
    madness:    XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
                                                    -- Bjoern Hoehrmann

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#17537

FromPatricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org>
Date2012-12-06 14:11 -0800
Message-ID<TIydnSu3dcDahVzNnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#17529
On 12/6/2012 10:26 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Christoph Becker wrote:
...
>> Perhaps the one who's telling or doing nonsense today, would have been a
>> valuable regular contributor to the newsgroup tomorrow, if he had not been
>> scared away.
>
> In my experience, those who are scared away by being told the truth, usually
> because they have delusions of entitlement, are not going to be valuable
> regular contributors.

Obviously, anyone who gets scared away is not going to be a contributor
in the future. We will never know whether a given individual would have
become a valuable regular contributor given more encouraging treatment.

I do realize that expecting friendly and welcoming treatment on Usenet
these days is indeed a delusion. I just think that Usenet would be both
more active and more enjoyable if that changed.

Patricia

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#17550

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2012-12-07 03:07 +0100
Message-ID<2458355.mBAsdCNDOn@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#17537
Patricia Shanahan wrote:

> On 12/6/2012 10:26 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Christoph Becker wrote:
>>> Perhaps the one who's telling or doing nonsense today, would have been a
>>> valuable regular contributor to the newsgroup tomorrow, if he had not
>>> been scared away.
>>
>> In my experience, those who are scared away by being told the truth,
>> usually because they have delusions of entitlement, are not going to be
>> valuable regular contributors.
> 
> Obviously, anyone who gets scared away is not going to be a contributor
> in the future. We will never know whether a given individual would have
> become a valuable regular contributor given more encouraging treatment.

No, my point and observation is that a person who is not asking their 
question in a smart way and will be scared of by comments as to that is just 
a hit-and-run luser who has no intention of becoming a regular contributor 
in the first place.  And it is only those who are sometimes met with what 
seems like hostility because of the way they ask their question (if they 
even ask for, and not simply *demand* a solution).

> I do realize that expecting friendly and welcoming treatment on Usenet
> these days is indeed a delusion. I just think that Usenet would be both
> more active and more enjoyable if that changed.

You are missing the point.  I have been using and contributing to Usenet for 
12 years now, and I think I have come to know this place very well from own 
experience and from what was passed on by friendly, knowledgable people who 
are even longer here.  The delusion actually is that Usenet has ever been 
different, and that it needs to change now.  It has not, and it should not.

Instead, it is the majority of the generation who has grown up without 
Usenet who have changed for the worse; who have acquired a customer 
mentality that makes them believe they do not need to make *any* effort in 
order to solve their problem.  And *that* is the cause of them being treated 
unfriendly (if at all), because they are doing this at the expense of (the 
free time of) everybody else.  Hit-and-run lusers with delusions of grandeur 
and entitlement.  I have no problem seeing them leave.


HTH

PointedEars
-- 
Sometimes, what you learn is wrong. If those wrong ideas are close to the 
root of the knowledge tree you build on a particular subject, pruning the 
bad branches can sometimes cause the whole tree to collapse.
  -- Mike Duffy in cljs, <news:Xns9FB6521286DB8invalidcom@94.75.214.39>

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#17551

FromPatricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org>
Date2012-12-06 18:36 -0800
Message-ID<9r2dnZSB8rCJy1zNnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#17550
On 12/6/2012 6:07 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
...
> You are missing the point.  I have been using and contributing to Usenet for
> 12 years now, and I think I have come to know this place very well from own
> experience and from what was passed on by friendly, knowledgable people who
> are even longer here.  The delusion actually is that Usenet has ever been
> different, and that it needs to change now.  It has not, and it should not.

I don't know what it was like before about 1983, when I got access.
I've been a more-or-less continuous participant since then.

I until about the last decade I don't think I ever felt really
uncomfortable reading responses to questions from obvious newbies. An
under researched question could always be handled by politely suggesting
possible research actions.

I think there was a big difference in the 1980's relative to now. Most
participants worked in a relatively small set of technically-orientated
businesses, universities, and the like. That meant we had a much higher
probability of meeting or having mutual acquaintances.

Patricia

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#17552

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2012-12-07 04:11 +0100
Message-ID<43735093.ohA7tYpd2c@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#17551
Patricia Shanahan wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> You are missing the point.  I have been using and contributing to Usenet
>> for 12 years now, and I think I have come to know this place very well
>> from own experience and from what was passed on by friendly, knowledgable
>> people who
>> are even longer here.  The delusion actually is that Usenet has ever been
>> different, and that it needs to change now.  It has not, and it should
>> not.
> 
> I don't know what it was like before about 1983, when I got access.
> I've been a more-or-less continuous participant since then.
> 
> I until about the last decade I don't think I ever felt really
> uncomfortable reading responses to questions from obvious newbies. An
> under researched question could always be handled by politely suggesting
> possible research actions.

Which is still being done.  But you cannot recommend a possible research 
action to a person who is obviously not willing to do any research.

(Let's be on-topic for a minute ;-))

The FAQ is for people who are willing to do that, either because they know 
that it is expected that you check a newsgroup's FAQ before you post or 
because they are pointed to it in a posting.

Therefore, that FAQ needs to be current and easily readable.  I know that 
the former is not the case, and you have confirmed my suspicion that the 
latter is not the case, too.  Which is why I applied for the job more than 
two weeks ago and offered optional hosting of it on my server to increase 
uptime, following the OP by Asen the day before.

So – what exactly are we waiting for now?  If the assumption is correct that 
we do need a FAQ, why is it still not maintained?

> I think there was a big difference in the 1980's relative to now. Most
> participants worked in a relatively small set of technically-orientated
> businesses, universities, and the like. That meant we had a much higher
> probability of meeting or having mutual acquaintances.

Very probable.  Usenet has grown into mainstream through the Web (Google 
Groups, through DejaNews, to be precise) – which accounts for the change in 
expectation from questioners – and is currently shrinking because the 
mainstream has shifted to the Web.


PointedEars
-- 
> If you get a bunch of authors […] that state the same "best practices"
> in any programming language, then you can bet who is wrong or right...
Not with javascript. Nonsense propagates like wildfire in this field.
  -- Richard Cornford, comp.lang.javascript, 2011-11-14

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