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Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy?

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  Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? groovee@cyberdude.com - 2019-07-17 01:08 -0700
    Re: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2019-07-17 12:36 +0200
    Re: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-07-17 19:10 +0200
      Re: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? groovee@cyberdude.com - 2019-07-17 10:28 -0700
        Re: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-07-18 16:16 +0200
          Re: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? groovee@cyberdude.com - 2019-07-20 00:39 -0700
            Re: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2019-07-20 23:11 +0200
            Re: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? John-Paul Stewart <jpstewart@sympatico.ca> - 2019-07-20 22:17 -0400
              Re: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? groovee@cyberdude.com - 2019-07-24 01:01 -0700
            Re: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-07-23 07:49 +0200
    Re: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2019-07-18 10:26 +0200
    Re: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy? Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-07-21 14:29 +0200

#36954 — Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy?

OK, so I've been hearing that they're gonna shift everything to the "cloud" (I don't really understand that word), and recent news apparently, is that this now includes Microsoft Office!! So - what I'd like to know is, does this mean the end of piracy? Like, guaranteed? IS it possible to crack something running in the browser, or is it simply impossible? WebAssembly, from the *name* of it, sounds like it could accomplish this (I really love the "assembly" part :) ) - WILL it??

..and *another* thing apparently is, that apps in a browser can now be "streamed" - for example 3D apps can be running on a remote server and use IT'S CPU instead of your local one - thus, again, exterminating piracy (and this would be simply IMPOSSIBLE to get around). How is THIS pulled off, exactly? Is this like, VNC, running in a browser or something? :)

Thanks.

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#36955

groovee@cyberdude.com wrote on 17 Jul 2019 in comp.lang.javascript:

> OK, so I've been hearing that they're gonna shift everything to the
> "cloud" (I don't really understand that word), and recent news
> apparently, is that this now includes Microsoft Office!! So - what I'd
> like to know is, does this mean the end of piracy? Like, guaranteed? IS
> it possible to crack something running in the browser, or is it simply
> impossible? WebAssembly, from the *name* of it, sounds like it could
> accomplish this (I really love the "assembly" part :) ) - WILL it?? 
> 
> ..and *another* thing apparently is, that apps in a browser can now be
> "streamed" - for example 3D apps can be running on a remote server and
> use IT'S CPU instead of your local one - thus, again, exterminating
> piracy (and this would be simply IMPOSSIBLE to get around). How is THIS
> pulled off, exactly? Is this like, VNC, running in a browser or
> something? :) 

Off Topic, unrelated to the Javascript Language.

I deplore it, when people [in general] want to know something "exactly",
and at the same time claim to know that things are "simply impossible".

Clouds prevented me to see the eclips last night, btw.

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#36956

groovee@cyberdude.com:

> OK, so I've been hearing that they're gonna shift everything to the
> "cloud" (I don't really understand that word), and recent news
[...]

What does this has to do with JavaScript?


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#36957

Well, apps running in the browser are written in Javascript, obviously. So - whether it's possible to crack them or not, I thought someone here might know.

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#36960

On 17.07.19 19:28, groovee@cyberdude.com wrote:

> Well, apps running in the browser are written in Javascript,
> obviously. So - whether it's possible to crack them or not, I thought
> someone here might know.

It may be possible to gain user credentials if the scripts of the
providers are vulnerable to cross site scripting. But this has nothing
to do with "cloud" - the same is true for web based e-mail services or
corporate "intranets" etc..


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#36961

On Thursday, 18 July 2019 19:46:08 UTC+5:30, Arno Welzel  wrote:

> 
> It may be possible to gain user credentials if the scripts of the
> providers are vulnerable to cross site scripting. 

I'm asking - is it possible that someone can download a copy of the software and use it without paying??

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#36967

Groovee,

> is it possible that someone can download a copy of the software
> and use it without paying??

The answer is: it depends.

1) Yes, you can run the *client-side* software as much as you like (just 
don't allow it access to the internet).

... which won't do you any good if the client-side software depends on 
server-side software to do the actual work though - as it does in your case.

2) Can you tell the server-side software that your non-payed for client-side 
software is actually legit ?

Yeah, sure.    Its just as with lockpicking:  With enough time, 
determination and the right tools you can crack /any/ lock, no matter how 
clever it is constructed.

The only problem is that a) it takes a /lot/ of effort and knowledge, and b) 
If-and-when you make the slightest mistake the "home owners" (the company 
running the servers you connect to) will be alerted to your intrusion - 
without you noticing it.

And when that happens they will most likely try to figure out who you are. 
And when they do you are, with the current internet laws, in big trouble.

tl;dr:
Yes, its possible.   But not just anybody can do it (crack a program). And 
even if they can they can be caught by even the slightest mistake.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#36968

On 2019-07-20 3:39 a.m., groovee@cyberdude.com wrote:
> 
> I'm asking - is it possible that someone can download a copy of the
> software and use it without paying??

It is impossible to answer that in the general case. There are many
factors that come into play. It all depends on how the software was
written.  With desktop software, some applications run once they're
installed and others require a license key. Whether or not a license key
is needed is a design decision those authors made, not an inherent
property of desktop software. It is similar with cloud software. How it
runs and what authorization is needed is largely a design decision for
the implementors of that software, not an inherent property of the
nature of cloud software.

Also note that "cloud" does not always mean "JavaScript" or "running in
the browser".  (Which was what Evertjan was alluding to when he -- quite
correctly -- pointed out that this discussion is off-topic in this
newsgroup.)

At https://products.office.com/en-ca/explore-office-for-home you can see
that Microsoft's "Office 365" "cloud" offering gives you software that
is "Fully installed on your PC or Mac, no Internet access needed to
create or edit documents."  In that case, "the cloud" is used to
distribute the software, share documents, presumably periodically verify
that your subscription is paid up, etc.  It is most certainly not trying
to run Word or Excel in your browser.  By contrast, I believe Google's
cloud-based word processor and spreadsheet do run in your browser.
Those two companies made very different design decisions when
implementing their cloud-based software.  So you can see that your
question about piracy requires different answers (which in turn depend
on different factors) for each piece of cloud-based software.

Many companies are using the cloud to verify software licenses in an
effort to reduce or eliminate piracy (whether or not the application is
running in the browser).  That's because they've chosen to use the cloud
to do so, not because there is any inherent property of the cloud that
prevents piracy.

It is also important to remember that "the cloud" is not necessarily
well-defined.  Almost everything Internet-related gets labelled as being
in "the cloud" these days.  It is currently a popular marketing buzzword
that means different things to different people and different companies.
 Some of those companies just use the phrase "the cloud" to sound trendy
and up-to-date.

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#36980

On Sunday, 21 July 2019 07:47:58 UTC+5:30, John-Paul Stewart  wrote:

> By contrast, I believe Google's
> cloud-based word processor and spreadsheet do run in your browser.


Yes, correct, this is what I was referring to. Also, things like THIS, which have FINALLY happened: 4j.com !!


So, assume that no connection to the server is needed to play these games - NOW can they be cracked??? Or is it possible to PURPOSELY make it "connect to the server" just to make sure the paid-for version is being played? How would that work, exactly? How easy would it be to remove that protection check? (since the damn thing is all source? - or is it now NOT with WebAassembly?). THIS is what I'm trying to find out....

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#36977

On 20.07.19 09:39, groovee@cyberdude.com wrote:

> On Thursday, 18 July 2019 19:46:08 UTC+5:30, Arno Welzel  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> It may be possible to gain user credentials if the scripts of the 
>> providers are vulnerable to cross site scripting.
> 
> I'm asking - is it possible that someone can download a copy of the
> software and use it without paying??

Very unlikely since the software runs on a server and the part which is
sent to the browser (HTML, CSS, JavaScript) is not enough to use it
without the server part.

Or in other words: is it possible to download a copy of the software
which runs Dropbox or Google Docs or Facebook?


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#36959

ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote on 17 Jul 2019 in 
comp.lang.javascript:

> groovee@cyberdude.com writes:
>>Subject: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy?
> 
>   The end of piracy or the end of privacy ...

Both rather pyroclastic events! 

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#36972

On 17/07/2019 23:23, Stefan Ram wrote:
> groovee@cyberdude.com writes:
>> Subject: Does "cloud" mean the end of piracy?
> 
>    The end of piracy or the end of privacy ...
> 
> 

+1

-- 
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
Soviet_Mario - (aka Gatto_Vizzato)

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