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What's a good Javascript book?

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  What's a good Javascript book? I Am Here <iamhereintheworld@gmail.com> - 2012-10-08 06:35 -0700
    Re: What's a good Javascript book? "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-08 13:52 +0000
      Re: What's a good Javascript book? "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2012-10-08 17:03 +0300
        Re: What's a good Javascript book? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-08 15:22 +0100
          Re: What's a good Javascript book? "Mel Smith" <med_cutout_syntel@aol.com> - 2012-10-08 08:56 -0600
    Re: What's a good Javascript book? Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-10-08 16:11 +0200
      Re: What's a good Javascript book? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-09 10:43 +0100
        Re: What's a good Javascript book? Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 13:12 +0200
          Re: What's a good Javascript book? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-10 15:32 +0100
            Re: What's a good Javascript book? Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-10-10 20:13 +0200
              Re: What's a good Javascript book? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-11 14:28 +0100
        Re: What's a good Javascript book? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-09 17:56 +0100
          Re: What's a good Javascript book? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-10 00:32 +0200
            Re: What's a good Javascript book? Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-10-09 16:37 -0700
            Re: What's a good Javascript book? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-10 06:44 +0100
              Re: What's a good Javascript book? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-10 20:09 +0200
              Re: What's a good Javascript book? Dr J R Stockton <reply1241@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2012-10-11 19:43 +0100
    Re: What's a good Javascript book? Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2012-10-08 16:21 +0200
    Re: What's a good Javascript book? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2012-10-08 07:56 -0700
    Re: What's a good [JavaScript] book? Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-10-08 11:38 -0400
      Re: What's a good [JavaScript] book? Matt McDonald <matt@fortybelow.ca> - 2012-10-08 11:42 -0400
        Re: What's a good [JavaScript] book? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-10 00:41 +0200
    Re: What's a good Javascript book? Danny <dann90038@gmail.com> - 2012-10-08 11:57 -0700
      Re: What's a good Javascript book? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-08 20:39 +0100
    Re: What's a good Javascript book? I Am Here <iamhereintheworld@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 06:19 -0700
      Re: What's a good Javascript book? Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2012-10-09 18:43 +0200
        Re: What's a good Javascript book? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-09 10:06 -0700
          Re: What's a good Javascript book? Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 11:43 -0700
            Re: What's a good Javascript book? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-09 20:07 +0100
            Re: What's a good Javascript book? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-09 13:40 -0700
          Re: What's a good Javascript book? Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2012-10-09 20:55 +0200
            Re: What's a good Javascript book? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-09 13:45 -0700
            Re: What's a good Javascript book? Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-10 04:31 -0700
        Re: What's a good Javascript book? Stefan Weiss <krewecherl@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 20:09 +0200
          Re: What's a good Javascript book? Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2012-10-09 21:01 +0200
            Re: What's a good Javascript book? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-09 13:50 -0700
        Re: What's a good Javascript book? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-10 15:26 +0100
          Re: What's a good Javascript book? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-10-10 15:58 +0100
            Re: What's a good Javascript book? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-11 14:39 +0100
              Re: What's a good Javascript book? Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-11 06:52 -0700
                Re: What's a good Javascript book? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-11 17:13 +0100
                  Re: What's a good Javascript book? Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-11 10:39 -0700
                    Re: What's a good Javascript book? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-12 10:37 +0100
                      Re: What's a good Javascript book? Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-12 07:11 -0700
                        Re: What's a good Javascript book? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-13 10:53 +0100
                      Re: What's a good Javascript book? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-12 09:49 -0700
                        Re: What's a good Javascript book? Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-12 10:22 -0700
                          Re: What's a good Javascript book? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-12 13:17 -0700
                      Re: What's a good Javascript book? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-12 20:32 +0100
                        Re: What's a good Javascript book? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-13 10:50 +0100
                          Re: What's a good Javascript book? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-13 19:45 +0100
                            Re: What's a good Javascript book? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-13 21:55 +0200
                              Re: What's a good Javascript book? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-13 21:52 +0100
                                Re: What's a good Javascript book? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-13 23:49 +0200
                                  Re: What's a good Javascript book? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-13 23:57 +0200
                                  Re: What's a good Javascript book? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-13 23:34 +0100
                                    Re: What's a good Javascript book? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-14 02:09 +0200
                                  Re: What's a good Javascript book? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-14 00:00 +0100
                                    Re: What's a good Javascript book? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-14 01:58 +0200
                                      Re: What's a good Javascript book? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-10-14 07:17 +0100
                                        Re: What's a good Javascript book? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-10-15 01:17 +0200
                            Re: What's a good Javascript book? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-14 13:40 +0100
                              Re: What's a good Javascript book? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-10-14 19:03 -0700
                                Re: What's a good Javascript book? John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-10-15 10:42 +0100
      Re: What's a good Javascript book? "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2012-10-09 22:49 +0200
    Re: What's a good Javascript book? Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 12:00 -0700
    Re: What's a good Javascript book? I Am Here <iamhereintheworld@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 06:57 -0700

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#16639

Patricia Shanahan wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>> Have you considered the TryStatement productions?
>> 
>> I have, and that is indeed a case where any other statement but a Block
>> statement is not allowed.  However, that does not prove your argument,
>> only its premise.
> 
> In that case, we may have to just agree to differ. You seem to have a
> very deeply built-in assumption that a Block must be a Statement, to the
> extent that even when discussing the standard you talk about "a Block
> statement", a phrase that does not appear in it, rather than terms such
> as "a Block" or "a Block of code", that do appear in the standard.

For crying out loud.  When something is specified in a subsection of the 
main section titled "Statements", and any other subsection of that section 
specifies a different statement; when it is directly produced by the 
/Statement/ goal symbol as all other direct results of that production that 
are defined in the same main section, then it is not very far-fetched to 
assume that this something is meant to be a statement as well.  Indeed, it 
is not logical to assume that the opposite is the case.

But, as they say, the proof is in the pudding.  If what is produced by the 
/Block/ production would not be a statement, then

  { 42 }

would not be a syntactically valid ECMAScript /Program/, because it cannot 
be produced by anything other than the production chain

  /Program/
→ /SourceElements/
→ /SourceElement/
→ /Statement/
→ /Block/
→ { /StatementList/ }
→ { /Statement/ }
→ { /ExpressionStatement/ }
→ …
→ { 42 }

You will observe, however, that this code compiles in all conforming 
implementations without syntax error, and that the result of that /Program/ 
is 42, because the result of the /Block/ statement is 42, because the result 
of the /ExpressionStatement/ 42 is, necessarily, 42.  Which is what the 
production rules specify.

QED.


PointedEars
-- 
> If you get a bunch of authors […] that state the same "best practices"
> in any programming language, then you can bet who is wrong or right...
Not with javascript. Nonsense propagates like wildfire in this field.
  -- Richard Cornford, comp.lang.javascript, 2011-11-14

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#16633

On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 at 19:45:17, in comp.lang.javascript, Patricia 
Shanahan wrote:
>John G Harris wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 at 20:32:57, in comp.lang.javascript, Patricia
>> Shanahan wrote:
>>    <snip>
>>> According to the grammar in
>>> http://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/5.1/, Statement can be
>>> expanded to Block, so some blocks are statements. On the other hand,
>>> there are contexts which require Block rather than Statement, for
>>> example in a TryStatement. A block that appears where a statement is not
>>> permitted cannot be a statement.
>>   <snip>
>>  I don't agree with your reasoning there. The standard says 'try' 
>>must be
>> followed by a block statement. If it said that 'try' must be followed by
>
>Could you give me a reference for where you are getting the phrase
>"block statement"?
   <snip>

"block statement" comes from the same verbal contortion that converts 
"IfStatement statement" into "if statement". It's not defined, but most 
readers will understand what is meant.

Would it help if the name "Block" were replaced by "CompoundStatement", 
as in other similar languages. It wouldn't change the syntax nor would 
it change the semantics; you'd still have the same language.

(Aside: We don't know why the inventor used "Block". Perhaps it was a 
case of "Block" can't be confused with a keyword, unlike "if", and he 
was fed up with typing long names.)

Your point about the try statement doesn't follow the usual advice to 
Keep It Simple. The Block components in a try statement do exactly the 
same job as elsewhere, so why think of them differently, especially as 
the standard doesn't even hint at any difference.

   John
-- 
John Harris

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#16641

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:40:57 +0100, John G Harris
<john@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

>"block statement" comes from the same verbal contortion that converts 
>"IfStatement statement" into "if statement". It's not defined, but most 
>readers will understand what is meant.

     It is hardly a contortion.  I have used "if statement" since my
first programming which is way before JavaScript existed.  Many of us
know more than one programming language.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#16642

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 at 19:03:13, in comp.lang.javascript, Gene Wirchenko
wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:40:57 +0100, John G Harris
><john@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>"block statement" comes from the same verbal contortion that converts
>>"IfStatement statement" into "if statement". It's not defined, but most
>>readers will understand what is meant.
>
>     It is hardly a contortion.

I wasn't saying it's wrong. If I'd called it a verbal elision would you
have understood me ?


>I have used "if statement" since my
>first programming which is way before JavaScript existed.  Many of us
>know more than one programming language.

So do I, starting with Deuce Alphacode.

  John
-- 
John Harris

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#16519

I Am Here wrote on 09 okt 2012 in comp.lang.javascript:

> Thanks guys, for all the replies. Count on me as a new addition to
> this group :) 
> 
> The 3 books I have are "Javascript Cookbook", "Sams Teach Yourself
> Javascript in 24 hours" and one called "HTML, XHTML, CSS and
> Javascript" which is absolutely useless. Also, I recently bought
> "Supercharged Javascript Graphics" where I can't follow the code,
> which is what brought me to this group. 

Javascrit has many different implementations that run on different 
platforms and applications. It seems the total is too difficult for 
writers with dollar-signs in their eyes.

> Yes, it's the referring to object properties as array subscripts that
> I find confusing, but also as colon separated items inside a {} block.
> I'll post more on this when my head clears up a little, I've got a
> slight fever at the moment, and I just can't stay at the computer too
> long :) 
> 
> Anyway, a little introduction telling me which country each of you are
> from would be nice to start with :) 

More often than not, we either have the country in the signature, or our 
emailadres suggests it.

> Me, I'm Indian. 

Can mean two things, [we] Europeans suspect you are from India,
the Americans think you are from an American "first nation".

> Bye for the moment.

Wouldn't it be nice if we had your name, so we recognize your next 
posting. A usenet conform signature would be even nicer.

Hopefuly it is only the fever that made you forget. 

I wish you a speedy recovery.

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#16511

I Am Here wrote:
> Can someone recommend me a good book which will cover ALL important
> features of Javascript?

No.

As some have suggested (although others have disagreed), David
Flanagan's _JavaScript: The Definitive Guide_ is worth a read.  I've
owned four of the six editions over the years (1, 3, 5, & 6) and it's
continuously improved.  To my mind, it's by far the best overall
reference to the language available in a single volume.  But don't
take it as being as definitive as its title suggests.  It has its
warts like all such books.

Douglas Crockford's _JavaScript: The Good Parts_ is absolutely worth
reading.  But pay attention to the caveats Stefan voiced.  It is
opinionated, and while his opinions are well thought out, they are not
necessarily better than your own.  Read it.  Learn from it.  But take
it with a large grain of salt.

Stoyen Stefanov's _JavaScript Patterns_ shows a number of excellent
techniques for organizing code to achieve various ends.  It is not a
beginner book, but once you understand the basics of the language,
it's definitely worth a read, and might help people more accustom to
languages like Java and C++/C# bridge the gap to Javascript.

Nicolas Zakas's _High Performance Javascript_ teaches a great deal
about how to build larger-scale systems that use Javascript.  If you
need to build large Javascript systems, this is worth a read.  But
this material is already a little dated, and will likely become more
so unless further editions are released.  Again, this is not a first
book on Javascript.

I have not been entirely through this one myself, but I hear really
good things about _Eloquent Javascript_, by Marijn Haverbeke.  This is
an actual beginner tutorial, with enough in-depth material to bring
the reader up to at least an intermediate level.

The only book I know of on Javascript testing is Christian Johansen's
_Test-Driven JavaScript Development_.  This is quite well done and
absolutely worth a read if you are interested in unit testing your
Javascript.

  -- Scott

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#16659

Hey,
This thread seems to have gone off-topic quite a bit, but just to answer somebody's question up there, I'm FROM India, and I prefer not to use my real name because things can get quite personal on newsgroups, I might end up making friends and chatting with them, and I wouldn't want, say my BOSS to be able to read them!

Anyway, as I have more questions, I'll post them, but I'm also not giving up on the other place I go to (a web board), where I can get to what *I* posted by clicking on "My Posts", and see what replies have come in quickly.

Bye for now :)

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