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new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale

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  new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2017-12-31 09:57 -0800
    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2017-12-31 20:48 +0100
      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale JJ <jj4public@vfemail.net> - 2018-01-02 04:41 +0700
        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-01 23:37 +0100
        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-03 02:25 +0100
          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-03 12:55 +0100
          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-04 04:02 -0800
            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Martin Honnen <martin.honnen@gmx.de> - 2018-01-04 13:30 +0100
            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-04 16:48 +0100
    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-06 13:02 -0200
      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-06 11:18 -0800
        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-07 13:07 -0200
          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-07 12:19 -0800
            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-08 11:43 +0000
              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-08 13:26 +0100
                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-08 16:36 +0000
              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-08 06:09 -0800
                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-08 16:33 +0000
                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-08 18:58 +0000
                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-08 19:33 +0000
                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-08 20:26 +0000
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-08 22:10 +0100
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-09 02:55 +0100
                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-09 09:36 +0100
                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-09 02:10 +0100
                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-09 03:35 +0000
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-09 15:51 +1100
                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-09 13:17 +0000
                            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-09 14:44 +0100
                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-09 14:13 +0000
                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-10 17:28 +1100
                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-10 21:01 +0100
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-10 21:00 +0000
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-09 13:19 +0100
                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-20 08:43 -0800
                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-21 15:09 +0000
                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-21 17:25 +0100
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-21 16:41 +0000
                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-21 19:15 +0100
                            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-21 18:56 +0000
                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-21 21:58 +0100
                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-21 23:03 +0000
                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-22 10:41 +0100
                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-22 11:17 -0200
                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-22 14:23 +0000
                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-23 03:50 +0100
                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-23 04:41 +0000
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-23 08:55 +0100
                                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-23 14:44 +0000
                                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-23 20:04 +0100
                                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-23 23:10 +0000
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2018-01-23 08:44 +0000
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-23 03:24 -0800
                                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2018-01-23 13:27 -0800
                                        Zulu time (was: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-24 00:44 +0100
                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-24 01:37 -0200
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-24 04:57 +0100
                                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-24 04:10 +0000
                                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-24 10:19 -0200
                                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-25 08:20 +0100
                                            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2018-01-25 10:26 +0000
                                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-25 14:26 +0000
                                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-26 15:42 +1100
                                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-26 11:19 +0100
                                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-27 07:16 +1100
                                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-26 23:22 +0100
                                                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-27 10:33 +1100
                                                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-27 11:30 +0100
                                                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-28 07:38 +1100
                                                            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-27 23:47 +0100
                                                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-28 10:07 +1100
                                                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Mark-" <nospam@mapson.xyz> - 2018-01-28 01:14 +0000
                                                Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-28 05:25 +0100
                                                  Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-28 16:07 +1100
                                                    [OT] Fallacies (was: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-01-28 07:18 +0100
                                    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2018-01-24 13:51 +0000
                                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-24 17:13 -0200
                          Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-23 03:00 -0800
                            Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-23 14:14 +0000
                              Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2018-01-23 15:44 +0100
                      Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-23 04:24 -0800
                        Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2018-01-23 14:29 +0000
    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-23 03:19 -0800
    Re: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> - 2018-01-25 13:33 -0800

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#34663

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 08:20:51 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
<PointedEars@web.de> wrote:

>Joao Rodrigues wrote:
>
>> Em 24/01/2018 02:10, Mark- escreveu:
>>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>> [pointless rant]
>>> Such a nice congenial fellow.
>> 
>> Indeed. And I wouldn't bother to shout "Man overboard!" if I saw him
>> falling off of my ship. :-D
>
>IOW: You have no evidence, so you believe you have to resort to /ad hominem/ 
>attacks and other fallacies to “save face”.  And feeding the latest troll.

Thomas doesn't understand what /ad hominem/ means.

"Such a nice congenial fellow." was an entirely justified remark about
someone who claimed that Joao wrote the words "[pointless rant]" when
he clearly didn't. That remark was not an ad hominem argument (because
it's not an argument).
  John

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#34664

John G Harris wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 08:20:51 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
> <PointedEars@web.de> wrote:
> 
> > Joao Rodrigues wrote:
> > 
> >> Em 24/01/2018 02:10, Mark- escreveu:
> >>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> >>>>> [pointless rant]
> >>> Such a nice congenial fellow.
> >> 
> >> Indeed. And I wouldn't bother to shout "Man overboard!" if I saw
> him >> falling off of my ship. :-D
> > 
> > IOW: You have no evidence, so you believe you have to resort to /ad
> > hominem/ attacks and other fallacies to “save face”.  And feeding
> > the latest troll.
> 
> Thomas doesn't understand what /ad hominem/ means.
> 
> "Such a nice congenial fellow." was an entirely justified remark about
> someone who claimed that Joao wrote the words "[pointless rant]" when
> he clearly didn't. That remark was not an ad hominem argument (because
> it's not an argument).
>   John

Thomas is lashing out. When folks are angry, generally they speak with
very little sense. He seems to be angry most of the time.

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#34666

On 25/01/2018 9:26 PM, John G Harris wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 08:20:51 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
> <PointedEars@web.de> wrote:
> 
>> Joao Rodrigues wrote:
>>
>>> Em 24/01/2018 02:10, Mark- escreveu:
>>>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>>> [pointless rant]
>>>> Such a nice congenial fellow.
>>>
>>> Indeed. And I wouldn't bother to shout "Man overboard!" if I saw him
>>> falling off of my ship. :-D
>>
>> IOW: You have no evidence, so you believe you have to resort to /ad hominem/
>> attacks and other fallacies to “save face”.  And feeding the latest troll.
> 
> Thomas doesn't understand what /ad hominem/ means.
> 
> "Such a nice congenial fellow." was an entirely justified remark about
> someone who claimed that Joao wrote the words "[pointless rant]" when
> he clearly didn't. That remark was not an ad hominem argument (because
> it's not an argument).
>    John
> 

Ad hominem is not an argument it is a form of rebuttal.

Andrew Poulos

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#34667

Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> wrote on 26 Jan 2018 in 
comp.lang.javascript:

> Ad hominem is not an argument it is a form of rebuttal.

Wrong.

1 A rebuttal is a form of argument, as it is a form of evidence that is 
presented to contradict or nullify other evidence that has been presented by 
an adverse party.

2 Ad-hominem is an adjective, so it cannot be "a rebuttal".
"An ad-hominem" can only be a shortcut for "An ad-hominem something",
like an "An ad-hominem rebuttal", which is a form of fallacious argument.

3 An ad-hominem argument is a pseudo-argument,
as the argument is not about the subject of the discussion,
but fallaciously attacks the opponent.

Such fallacy is called "the ad-hominem fallacy".

"argumentum ad hominem" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem>:

"Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for 
argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby an 
argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute 
of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, 
rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]"


-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#34668

On 26/01/2018 9:19 PM, Evertjan. wrote:
> Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> wrote on 26 Jan 2018 in
> comp.lang.javascript:
> 
>> Ad hominem is not an argument it is a form of rebuttal.
> 
> Wrong.

I don't think so.

> 1 A rebuttal is a form of argument, as it is a form of evidence that is
> presented to contradict or nullify other evidence that has been presented by
> an adverse party.
> 
> 2 Ad-hominem is an adjective, so it cannot be "a rebuttal".
> "An ad-hominem" can only be a shortcut for "An ad-hominem something",
> like an "An ad-hominem rebuttal", which is a form of fallacious argument.
> 
> 3 An ad-hominem argument is a pseudo-argument,
> as the argument is not about the subject of the discussion,
> but fallaciously attacks the opponent.
> 
> Such fallacy is called "the ad-hominem fallacy".
> 
> "argumentum ad hominem" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem>:
> 
> "Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for
> argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby an
> argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute
> of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument,
> rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]"

"argumentum ad hominem, is a... whereby an argument is rebutted..."

which seems to me to say that an argument is a rebutted using ad hominem!

Andrew Poulos

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#34669

Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> wrote on 26 Jan 2018 in
comp.lang.javascript: 

> On 26/01/2018 9:19 PM, Evertjan. wrote:
>> Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> wrote on 26 Jan 2018 in
>> comp.lang.javascript:
>> 
>>> Ad hominem is not an argument it is a form of rebuttal.
>> 
>> Wrong.
> 
> I don't think so.

Well, my below arguments speak for themselves.
 
>> 1 A rebuttal is a form of argument, as it is a form of evidence that is
>> presented to contradict or nullify other evidence that has been
>> presented by an adverse party.
>> 
>> 2 Ad-hominem is an adjective, so it cannot be "a rebuttal".
>> "An ad-hominem" can only be a shortcut for "An ad-hominem something",
>> like an "An ad-hominem rebuttal", which is a form of fallacious
>> argument. 
>> 
>> 3 An ad-hominem argument is a pseudo-argument,
>> as the argument is not about the subject of the discussion,
>> but fallaciously attacks the opponent.
>> 
>> Such fallacy is called "the ad-hominem fallacy".
>> 
>> "argumentum ad hominem" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem>:
>> 
>> "Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for
>> argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby
>> an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other
>> attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with
>> the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument
>> itself.[2]" 
> 
> "argumentum ad hominem, is a... whereby an argument is rebutted..."
> 
> which seems to me to say that an argument is a rebutted using ad
> hominem! 

No, it is fallacious so it is not.

> which seems to me to say that an argument is a rebutted using ad
> hominem! 

No, it is not, because "ad-hominem" is an adjective.

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#34670

On 27/01/2018 9:22 AM, Evertjan. wrote:
> Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> wrote on 26 Jan 2018 in
> comp.lang.javascript:
> 
>> On 26/01/2018 9:19 PM, Evertjan. wrote:
>>> Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> wrote on 26 Jan 2018 in
>>> comp.lang.javascript:
>>>
>>>> Ad hominem is not an argument it is a form of rebuttal.
>>>
>>> Wrong.
>>
>> I don't think so.
> 
> Well, my below arguments speak for themselves.
>   
>>> 1 A rebuttal is a form of argument, as it is a form of evidence that is
>>> presented to contradict or nullify other evidence that has been
>>> presented by an adverse party.
>>>
>>> 2 Ad-hominem is an adjective, so it cannot be "a rebuttal".
>>> "An ad-hominem" can only be a shortcut for "An ad-hominem something",
>>> like an "An ad-hominem rebuttal", which is a form of fallacious
>>> argument.
>>>
>>> 3 An ad-hominem argument is a pseudo-argument,
>>> as the argument is not about the subject of the discussion,
>>> but fallaciously attacks the opponent.
>>>
>>> Such fallacy is called "the ad-hominem fallacy".
>>>
>>> "argumentum ad hominem" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem>:
>>>
>>> "Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for
>>> argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby
>>> an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other
>>> attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with
>>> the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument
>>> itself.[2]"
>>
>> "argumentum ad hominem, is a... whereby an argument is rebutted..."
>>
>> which seems to me to say that an argument is a rebutted using ad
>> hominem!
> 
> No, it is fallacious so it is not.

To me it reads: argumentum ad hominem [a strategy and a noun] used to 
rebut an argument. How do you read the wikipedia quote?

>> which seems to me to say that an argument is a rebutted using ad
>> hominem!
> 
> No, it is not, because "ad-hominem" is an adjective.

I don't see the point of claiming it a specific grammatical element as 
meaning that it cannot be used to rebut an argument.

Andrew Poulos

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#34671

Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> wrote on 27 Jan 2018 in 
comp.lang.javascript:

>> No, it is fallacious so it is not.
> 
> To me it reads: argumentum ad hominem [a strategy and a noun] used to 
> rebut an argument. How do you read the wikipedia quote?

I read the Latin.

>>> which seems to me to say that an argument is a rebutted using ad
>>> hominem!
>> 
>> No, it is not, because "ad-hominem" is an adjective.
> 
> I don't see the point of claiming it a specific grammatical element as 
> meaning that it cannot be used to rebut an argument.

I was only claiming your sentence stinks.

You cannot rebut anything with a fallacy.

And, to speak with Stephan Fry: 'It is not nice, not nice at all'.

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#34672

On 27/01/2018 9:30 PM, Evertjan. wrote:

> You cannot rebut anything with a fallacy.

Yet I read posters here doing it "all the time".

Andrew Poulos

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#34673

Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> wrote on 27 Jan 2018 in 
comp.lang.javascript:

> On 27/01/2018 9:30 PM, Evertjan. wrote:
> 
>> You cannot rebut anything with a fallacy.
> 
> Yet I read posters here doing it "all the time".

Wrong.

A rebuttal that does not work out is not a rebuttal.

>  "all the time"

Bigly?

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#34674

On 28/01/2018 9:47 AM, Evertjan. wrote:
> Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> wrote on 27 Jan 2018 in
> comp.lang.javascript:
> 
>> On 27/01/2018 9:30 PM, Evertjan. wrote:
>>
>>> You cannot rebut anything with a fallacy.
>>
>> Yet I read posters here doing it "all the time".
> 
> Wrong.

Not wrong!

And I used to wonder why this NG is all but dead.

Andrew Poulos

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#34675

Andrew Poulos wrote:

> On 28/01/2018 9:47 AM, Evertjan. wrote:
> >Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> wrote on 27 Jan 2018 in
> > comp.lang.javascript:
> > 
> > > On 27/01/2018 9:30 PM, Evertjan. wrote:
> > > 
> > > > You cannot rebut anything with a fallacy.
> > > 
> > > Yet I read posters here doing it "all the time".
> > 
> > Wrong.
> 
> Not wrong!
> 
> And I used to wonder why this NG is all but dead.
> 
> Andrew Poulos

Civility is missing from many responses. This portion of the thread
began when I said, I forget his identity, was not a congenial person.
And what I said was true. IIRC he said a portion of a fellow’s post was
a "pointless rant". His pointless rant comment had no value, except to
make himself feel better/superior/above/disdainful/smarter/etc. than
the other fellow. Uncivil.

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#34676

Andrew Poulos wrote:

> Ad hominem is not an argument

Wrong.  It is a *fallacious* argument, constituting a *fallacy*.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Red_herring_fallacies>

> it is a form of rebuttal.

Every rebuttal is a counterargument, therefore it is also an argument.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterargument>

-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
<https://github.com/PointedEars> | <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | Please do not cc me./Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#34677

On 28/01/2018 3:25 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Andrew Poulos wrote:
> 
>> Ad hominem is not an argument
> 
> Wrong.  It is a *fallacious* argument, constituting a *fallacy*.

A fallacy is something which renders an argument invalid. Whereas a 
fallacious argument would be an argument based on a mistaken belief but 
might not necessarily mean the argument to be invalid ("Cats will push 
everything off flat surfaces. There are still things on Earth therefore 
the Earth is not flat.")

Anyhow it's been asserted that "Ad hominem" is an adjective: now it's a 
noun.

> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Red_herring_fallacies>
> 
>> it is a form of rebuttal.
> 
> Every rebuttal is a counterargument, therefore it is also an argument.
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterargument>

Yes that's *one* meaning for rebuttal but telling, say, one's employer 
"To take their job and shove it" would not, by me at least, be 
considered a counter-argument.

Anyhow I half-expected someone to quote the relevant Monty Python skit. 
No one has yet so here's the link:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvcnx6-0GhA>

Andrew Poulos

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#34678 — [OT] Fallacies (was: new Date().toLocaleTimeString() sponned in Fall Creators Update. UL locale)

Andrew Poulos wrote:

> On 28/01/2018 3:25 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Andrew Poulos wrote:
>>> Ad hominem is not an argument
>> Wrong.  It is a *fallacious* argument, constituting a *fallacy*.
> 
> A fallacy is something which renders an argument invalid. Whereas a
> fallacious argument would be an argument based on a mistaken belief but
> might not necessarily mean the argument to be invalid ("Cats will push
> everything off flat surfaces. There are still things on Earth therefore
> the Earth is not flat.")

No, the words “fallacy” and “fallacious” have several meanings; you are 
referring to one in the second part, while the another one (that you are 
referring to in the first part) applies in this context: “fallacious” is 
simply the adjective to “fallacy” there.  (This curious approach of yours
to definitions could be seen as a kind of equivocation, another fallacy.)

<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fallacy>
<https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fallacy>
<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fallacy>

<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fallacious>

See also, *in addition to the Wikipedia article I already referred you to*:

<https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/>
<https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem>
 
> Anyhow it's been asserted that "Ad hominem" is an adjective: now it's a
> noun.

As you can also read in Wikipedia (referred in the first article that I 
referred you to, and you had quoted from earlier), /ad hominem/ is short
for /*argumentum* ad hominem/ which means “argument towards/against the 
(hu)man/person”.  This refutes¹ your argument (see below) regarding its 
meaning and renders this follow-up discussion moot.
 
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/argumentum#Latin>
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ad#Preposition_4>
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hominem#Latin>

> Anyhow I half-expected someone to quote the relevant Monty Python skit.
> No one has yet so here's the link:
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvcnx6-0GhA>

:-D

However, it should be noted that the meaning of “argument” as used in that 
skit is different than in “/ad hominem/ argument”.  The word has adopted a 
second meaning in English to refer to a whole, rather heated exchange of 
words since it had been imported from Latin:

<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/argument>
<https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/argument>
<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/argument>

Regarding /*ad* hominem/, this one is also very nice:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbI-fDzUJXI>

HTH.


F’up2 poster

_______
¹  Interestingly, “refute” and “rebut” are synonyms, with the former
   being from Latin /refūtō/ (literally: “I beat back”) directly, while
   the latter apparently took a detour via Old French /rebouter/ (same
   meaning, and probably from the same Proto-Indoeuropean root).

   <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/refute> pp.
-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
<https://github.com/PointedEars> | <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | Please do not cc me./Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#34659

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:37:32 -0200, Joao Rodrigues
<groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> wrote:


  <snip>
> but the Prime Meridian doesn't actually pass through 
>the stainless steel mark on the ground on which visitors stand to strike 
>a pose. It's easy to check with a GPS equipment that the zero meridian 
>is some metres away from that mark on the ground.
  <snip>

Yes, and and also no. UK Ordnance Survey longitudes are different from
US GPS longitudes. They can be different by 100m. See
  <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmvHZ4omB2A>

Also, the Astronomer Royal moved the Prime Meridian by about 20m in
the late 1800s without tell anyone outside the observatory.

  John

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#34660

Em 24/01/2018 11:51, John G Harris escreveu:
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:37:32 -0200, Joao Rodrigues
> <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>    <snip>
>> but the Prime Meridian doesn't actually pass through
>> the stainless steel mark on the ground on which visitors stand to strike
>> a pose. It's easy to check with a GPS equipment that the zero meridian
>> is some metres away from that mark on the ground.
>    <snip>
> 
> Yes, and and also no. UK Ordnance Survey longitudes are different from
> US GPS longitudes. They can be different by 100m. See
>    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmvHZ4omB2A>
> 
> Also, the Astronomer Royal moved the Prime Meridian by about 20m in
> the late 1800s without tell anyone outside the observatory.
>  

Interesting info. Thanks!

-- 
Joao Rodrigues

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#34639

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 4:41:28 PM UTC, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On 2018-01-21, Evertjan. <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> wrote:
> > Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote on 21 Jan 2018 in 
> > comp.lang.javascript:

> Ok, I'll meet you in Trafalgar Square on 1st June at at 3pm (GMT).
> At what time in UTC do you think I am saying I will be there?

You are saying (assuming current rules) UTC 15:00:00 +/- < 0.9 s - or possibly <=.  Remember, when timing your arrival, that you are unlikely to be able to know the exact GMT time, since, although UK legal time is apparently GMT, the disseminated time in the UK is UTC-based.

-- 
  (c) John Stockton, near London, UK.  Using Google, no spell-check.  |
 Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org - or as Reply-To, if any.             |

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#34647

On 2018-01-23, Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> wrote:
> On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 4:41:28 PM UTC, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>> On 2018-01-21, Evertjan. <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> wrote:
>> > Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote on 21 Jan 2018 in 
>> > comp.lang.javascript:
>
>> Ok, I'll meet you in Trafalgar Square on 1st June at at 3pm (GMT).
>> At what time in UTC do you think I am saying I will be there?
>
> You are saying (assuming current rules) UTC 15:00:00 +/- < 0.9 s -
> or possibly <=.  Remember, when timing your arrival, that you are
> unlikely to be able to know the exact GMT time, since, although UK
> legal time is apparently GMT, the disseminated time in the UK is
> UTC-based.

No, sorry, I meant the "GMT time zone" that you claim is a thing
that exists, so I meant 1500 BST / 1400 UTC.

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#34649

Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote on 23 Jan 2018 in 
comp.lang.javascript:

> On 2018-01-23, Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stockton@physics.org> wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 4:41:28 PM UTC, Jon Ribbens wrote:
>>> On 2018-01-21, Evertjan. <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> wrote:
>>> > Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote on 21 Jan 2018 in 
>>> > comp.lang.javascript:
>>
>>> Ok, I'll meet you in Trafalgar Square on 1st June at at 3pm (GMT).
>>> At what time in UTC do you think I am saying I will be there?
>>
>> You are saying (assuming current rules) UTC 15:00:00 +/- < 0.9 s -
>> or possibly <=.  Remember, when timing your arrival, that you are
>> unlikely to be able to know the exact GMT time, since, although UK
>> legal time is apparently GMT, the disseminated time in the UK is
>> UTC-based.
> 
> No, sorry, I meant the "GMT time zone" that you claim is a thing
> that exists, so I meant 1500 BST / 1400 UTC.

I grant you you could have erroneously ment time-zone, 
but your meaning does not make it correct, as I said before,
because, if you add the 'word' GMT to a time, 
the primary if not only meaning is GMTime.

Anyway, 
altough you offered money to prove your point,
[how silly that is, Trumpian even],
I will not be there for you.

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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