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Compresssion of random binary data

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  Compresssion of random binary data jonas.thornvall@gmail.com - 2016-07-11 10:51 -0700
    Re: Compresssion of random binary data "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2016-07-11 21:52 +0200
    Re: Compresssion of random binary data Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-11 21:36 +0100
      Re: Compresssion of random binary data "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-07-11 13:49 -0700
    Re: Compresssion of random binary data "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-07-11 14:18 -0700
    Re: Compresssion of random binary data "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-07-11 17:17 -0700

#30836 — Compresssion of random binary data

What kind of statistic law or mathematical conjecture  or is it even a physical law is violated by compression of random binary data? 

I only know that Shanon theorised it could not be done, but were there any proof? 

What is to say that you can not do it if the symbolic representation is richer than the symbolic represenatation of the dataset. 

Isn't it a fact that the set of squareroots actually depict numbers in a shorter way than their actual representation. 

Now the inpretator or program must know the rules. And i have very good rules to make it happen. 

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#30837

jonas.thornvall@gmail.com wrote on 11 Jul 2016 in comp.lang.javascript:

> What kind of statistic law or mathematical conjecture  or is it even a
> physical law is violated by compression of random binary data? 
> 
> I only know that Shanon theorised it could not be done, but were there
> any proof? 
> 
> What is to say that you can not do it if the symbolic representation is
> richer than the symbolic represenatation of the dataset. 
> 
> Isn't it a fact that the set of squareroots actually depict numbers in a
> shorter way than their actual representation. 
> 
> Now the inpretator or program must know the rules. And i have very good
> rules to make it happen. 

You are off topic, this is not your private playground.

Please go away, Jonas, or discuss Javascript.

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#30838

jonas.thornvall@gmail.com writes:

> What kind of statistic law or mathematical conjecture or is it even a
> physical law is violated by compression of random binary data?
>
> I only know that Shanon theorised it could not be done, but were there
> any proof?

There are theorems (i.e. proved statements) about this, yes.

> What is to say that you can not do it if the symbolic representation
> is richer than the symbolic represenatation of the dataset.

Yes, of course.  The theorems deal with that because they take into
account the information content of the symbols used.

> Isn't it a fact that the set of squareroots actually depict numbers in
> a shorter way than their actual representation.

Why stop there?  The square roots are numbers too, so *their* square
roots should be even shorter.  But then the square roots of the square
roots of the square roots would be shorter still.  You could go on
indefinitely if it were generally true.

> Now the inpretator or program must know the rules. And i have very
> good rules to make it happen.

Yes, very good compression is indeed possible.  If yours is better than
the schemes used to date, you should publish it.

-- 
Ben.

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#30839

On Monday, July 11, 2016 at 3:36:23 PM UTC-5, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> jonas.thornvall writes:

> > Now the inpretator or program must know the rules. And i have very
> > good rules to make it happen.
> 
> Yes, very good compression is indeed possible.  If yours is better than
> the schemes used to date, you should publish it.

The dinosaurs beat us to it:

<http://qwantz.com/index.php?comic=354>

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#30840

On Monday, July 11, 2016 at 12:51:17 PM UTC-5, jonas.t...@gmail.com wrote:
> What kind of statistic law or mathematical conjecture  or is it even a physical law is violated by compression of random binary data? 
> 
> I only know that Shanon theorised it could not be done, but were there any proof? 
> 
> What is to say that you can not do it if the symbolic representation is richer than the symbolic represenatation of the dataset. 
> 
> Isn't it a fact that the set of squareroots actually depict numbers in a shorter way than their actual representation. 
> 
> Now the inpretator or program must know the rules. And i have very good rules to make it happen.

This is off-topic for CLJS.

If you think you have another bit of woo-woo to sell us in compression algorithms, I would invite you to prove it first by compressing the following file [1]:

<http://marknelson.us/attachments/million-digit-challenge/AMillionRandomDigits.bin>

And afterwards post the JavaScript that accomplished it.

Also, it's not a conjecture. You can prove it yourself using the pigeonhole principle. If you don't know what that is, than you are even more likely to not have the magic compression algorithm you think you do. For enlightenment on this topic:

<http://matt.might.net/articles/why-infinite-or-guaranteed-file-compression-is-impossible/>

[1] details: <http://www.drdobbs.com/architecture-and-design/the-enduring-challenge-of-compressing-ra/240049914>

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#30841

On 7/11/2016 10:51 AM, jonas.thornvall@gmail.com wrote:
> What kind of statistic law or mathematical conjecture  or is it even a physical law is violated by compression of random binary data?
>
> I only know that Shanon theorised it could not be done, but were there any proof?
>
> What is to say that you can not do it if the symbolic representation is richer than the symbolic represenatation of the dataset.
>
> Isn't it a fact that the set of squareroots actually depict numbers in a shorter way than their actual representation.
>
> Now the inpretator or program must know the rules. And i have very good rules to make it happen.

In the context of "Fantasy Island: The Very Far Over the Rainbow Edition":

I have always had an odd thought that an "extremely insecure cipher" can 
perhaps encrypt compressed data into a pattern rich form, that can be 
compressed again such that the "meta data of the encryption" and the 
newly compressed data is smaller than the original plaintext. Of course 
this is fantasy land because the process of finding the correct fractal 
can take an extremely long, long, long time... Compressed fractal 
formulas can be part of the meta data.

lol. ;^)

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