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Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like)

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  Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-07 15:14 +0000
    Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Leonardo Campos <leonardoscampos@gmail.com> - 2020-01-07 11:28 -0800
      Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-08 10:38 +0000
    Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2020-01-08 01:22 +0100
      Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-08 10:30 +0000
        Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-08 07:05 -0800
          Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-08 16:18 +0000
            Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-08 08:59 -0800
          Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2020-01-08 19:12 +0000
            Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-08 11:39 -0800
              Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2020-01-09 11:03 +0000
                Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-09 11:18 +0000
                  Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-09 03:59 -0800
                    Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-09 12:52 +0000
                    [OT] Netiquette (was: Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like)) Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2020-01-10 11:26 +0100
                      Re: [OT] Netiquette (was: Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like)) Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-10 07:01 -0800
                        Re: [OT] Netiquette Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2020-01-13 11:00 +0100
                          Re: [OT] Netiquette "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2020-01-13 12:40 +0100
                          Re: [OT] Netiquette Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-13 04:02 -0800
                            Re: [OT] Netiquette jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-13 12:32 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Netiquette Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-13 04:34 -0800
                                Re: [OT] Netiquette jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-13 12:57 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Netiquette Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-13 05:15 -0800
                                    Re: [OT] Netiquette jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-13 13:19 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Netiquette Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-13 05:23 -0800
                                    Re: [OT] Netiquette Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2020-01-13 15:33 +0100
                              Re: [OT] Netiquette Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2020-01-13 13:59 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Netiquette Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2020-01-13 15:31 +0100
                          Re: [OT] Netiquette Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-13 04:33 -0800
                            Re: [OT] Netiquette Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2020-01-13 15:46 +0100
                  Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2020-01-09 18:18 +0000
                  Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-01-09 18:24 +0000
                    Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-09 18:35 +0000
                  Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2020-01-13 20:40 +0100
                    Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) AC Needy <ac.needy@gmail.com> - 2020-01-13 16:51 -0500
                      Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2020-01-19 23:14 +0100
                        Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) dr.s.lartius@gmail.com - 2020-01-19 15:14 -0800
                        Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) AC Needy <ac.needy@gmail.com> - 2020-01-20 02:09 -0500
                        [OT] "Netiquette" (was: Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like)) Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2020-01-21 12:22 +0100
                          Re: [OT] "Netiquette" (was: Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like)) John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2020-01-22 18:05 +0000
                            Re: [OT] "Netiquette" Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2020-01-22 20:47 +0100
                              Re: [OT] "Netiquette" Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-22 12:16 -0800
                                Re: [OT] "Netiquette" AC Needy <ac.needy@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 22:15 -0500
                                Re: [OT] "Netiquette" Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2020-01-23 18:50 +0100
                                  Re: [OT] "Netiquette" Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-01-23 10:37 -0800
                                    Re: [OT] "Netiquette" Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2020-01-24 13:33 +0100
    Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2020-01-08 08:25 +0100
      Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-08 10:41 +0000
    Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 14:17 -0600
      Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> - 2020-01-23 08:52 +0000
        Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like) Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2020-01-23 17:18 -0600

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#37999 — Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like)

Hi, go easy on me, new to this group :)

I'm looking for a library that would enable me to develop a Visio-like UI 
for defining workflows.

In essence I'd like to set up a library of a small number of "object 
types" (forms, statuses, emails for example) and allow my user to drag and 
drop from the library onto the page and easily connect e.g. a form to an 
email).

If the above makes any sense to anyone, could you point me in the right 
direction?

TIA


-- 
jeremy

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#38000

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 12:14:11 PM UTC-3, jeremy wrote:
> Hi, go easy on me, new to this group :)
> 
> I'm looking for a library that would enable me to develop a Visio-like UI 
> for defining workflows.
> 
> In essence I'd like to set up a library of a small number of "object 
> types" (forms, statuses, emails for example) and allow my user to drag and 
> drop from the library onto the page and easily connect e.g. a form to an 
> email).
> 
> If the above makes any sense to anyone, could you point me in the right 
> direction?
> 
> TIA
> 
> 
> -- 
> jeremy

Take a look at this one:

https://gojs.net/latest/samples/index.html

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#38004

In article <50af60d3-5636-4708-af70-2050995cd82d@googlegroups.com>, 
leonardoscampos@gmail.com says...
> 
> On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 12:14:11 PM UTC-3, jeremy wrote:
> > Hi, go easy on me, new to this group :)
> > 
> > I'm looking for a library that would enable me to develop a Visio-like UI 
> > for defining workflows.
> > 
> > In essence I'd like to set up a library of a small number of "object 
> > types" (forms, statuses, emails for example) and allow my user to drag and 
> > drop from the library onto the page and easily connect e.g. a form to an 
> > email).
> > 
> > If the above makes any sense to anyone, could you point me in the right 
> > direction?
> > 
> > TIA
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > jeremy
> 
> Take a look at this one:
> 
> https://gojs.net/latest/samples/index.html

Thanks that has an extremely comprehensive set of features and useful 
getting started examples - thanks.

-- 
jeremy

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#38001

jeremy wrote:
^^^^^^
Your real name belongs there.

> I'm looking for a library that would enable me to develop a Visio-like UI
> for defining workflows.
> 
> In essence I'd like to set up a library of a small number of "object
> types" (forms, statuses, emails for example) and allow my user to drag and
> drop from the library onto the page and easily connect e.g. a form to an
> email).
> 
> If the above makes any sense to anyone, could you point me in the right
> direction?

<https://www.google.com/>

[My answer would usually have been “Yes”, see 
<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>]

> TIA

YW.

-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
<https://github.com/PointedEars> | <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | Please do not cc me./Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#38003

In article <5561974.lOV4Wx5bFT@PointedEars.de>, PointedEars@web.de says...
> 
> jeremy wrote:
> ^^^^^^
> Your real name belongs there.

Not entirely sure I understand your comment.

<snip>

> > If the above makes any sense to anyone, could you point me in the right
> > direction?
> 
> <https://www.google.com/>

Thanks, I'll see what that's like.

-- 
jeremy

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#38006

On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 11:30:21 UTC+1, jeremy  wrote:
> In article <5561974.lOV4Wx5bFT@PointedEars.de>, PointedEars@web.de says...
> > jeremy wrote:
> > ^^^^^^
> > Your real name belongs there.
> 
> Not entirely sure I understand your comment.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > > If the above makes any sense to anyone, could you point me in the right
> > > direction?
> > 
> > <https://www.google.com/>
> 
> Thanks, I'll see what that's like.

Thomas is a bit picky on netiquette, and not unreasonably so, Usenet is not a
forum, and the demise of Usenet is to begin with the demise of Usenet etiquette.
The first fact he mentions is that you are supposed to use a real name and email
address when you post here: people have to take responsibility for what they
post.  The second fact is about how to ask sensible questions, and telling you
that you should learn how to use a search engine is quite correct: different
would have been if you had tried to look it up and then came here to ask about
specific doubts or difficulties.  And the fact that other people would google
something up for you has that they are essentially violating etiquette, too,
not really helping you and not helping the group grow as a whole either.

That said, does it really matter?  I suppose it's matter of opinion (I won't
belabour), but I won't deny I am another one who thinks RTFM or "look it up"
remain the most appropriate answers to at least half of the questions that get
posted: and not with malice, that is really lesson number one along that
learning curve.

So, I do not mean to bash you (or the others), etiquette too is something we
learn (and of course there is quite more to it than just mentioned above), but
now you have been warned...  ;)

Have fun,

Julio

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#38007

In article <c3a1d466-7a05-4b1f-b178-8a466de6441b@googlegroups.com>, 
julio@diegidio.name says...
> 
> On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 11:30:21 UTC+1, jeremy  wrote:
> > In article <5561974.lOV4Wx5bFT@PointedEars.de>, PointedEars@web.de says...
> > > jeremy wrote:
> > > ^^^^^^
> > > Your real name belongs there.
> > 
> > Not entirely sure I understand your comment.
> > 
> > <snip>
> > 
> > > > If the above makes any sense to anyone, could you point me in the right
> > > > direction?
> > > 
> > > <https://www.google.com/>
> > 
> > Thanks, I'll see what that's like.
> 
> Thomas is a bit picky on netiquette, and not unreasonably so, Usenet is not a
> forum, and the demise of Usenet is to begin with the demise of Usenet etiquette.
> The first fact he mentions is that you are supposed to use a real name and email
> address when you post here: people have to take responsibility for what they
> post.  

Indeed - that is my name and my email address is valid. 

> The second fact is about how to ask sensible questions, and telling you
> that you should learn how to use a search engine is quite correct: different
> would have been if you had tried to look it up and then came here to ask about
> specific doubts or difficulties.  And the fact that other people would google
> something up for you has that they are essentially violating etiquette, too,
> not really helping you and not helping the group grow as a whole either.

I've been on usenet for a long time - perhaps I didn't articulate my 
question as well as I should (and I actually really appreciate the fact 
that usenet is a text-based medium and that folks should make the effort to 
present their requests / solutions clearly).
> 
> That said, does it really matter?  I suppose it's matter of opinion (I won't
> belabour), but I won't deny I am another one who thinks RTFM or "look it up"
> remain the most appropriate answers to at least half of the questions that get
> posted: and not with malice, that is really lesson number one along that
> learning curve.

Banged to rights here - perhaps I was being a little lazy. Sometimes you 
don't quite know what to look for until someone has given some clues as to 
what you might find IYSWIM. 

> 
> So, I do not mean to bash you (or the others), etiquette too is something we
> learn (and of course there is quite more to it than just mentioned above), but
> now you have been warned...  ;)
> 
> Have fun,

I shall :)

> Julio


-- 
jeremy

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#38008

On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 17:18:29 UTC+1, jeremy  wrote:
> In article <c3a1d466-7a05-4b1f-b178-8a466de6441b@googlegroups.com>, 
> julio@diegidio.name says...
> > On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 11:30:21 UTC+1, jeremy  wrote:
> > > In article <5561974.lOV4Wx5bFT@PointedEars.de>, PointedEars@web.de says...
> > > > jeremy wrote:
> > > > ^^^^^^
> > > > Your real name belongs there.
> > > 
> > > Not entirely sure I understand your comment.
> > > 
> > > <snip>
> > > 
> > > > > If the above makes any sense to anyone, could you point me in the right
> > > > > direction?
> > > > 
> > > > <https://www.google.com/>
> > > 
> > > Thanks, I'll see what that's like.
> > 
> > Thomas is a bit picky on netiquette, and not unreasonably so, Usenet is not a
> > forum, and the demise of Usenet is to begin with the demise of Usenet etiquette.
> > The first fact he mentions is that you are supposed to use a real name and email
> > address when you post here: people have to take responsibility for what they
> > post.  
> 
> Indeed - that is my name and my email address is valid. 

I meant full name: details apart, the point being that people must be able to
know what your real identity is.  And, FYI and for what it's worth, your email
address does not show up at all in Google Groups (thanks again Google, BTW).

> > The second fact is about how to ask sensible questions, and telling you
> > that you should learn how to use a search engine is quite correct: different
> > would have been if you had tried to look it up and then came here to ask about
> > specific doubts or difficulties.  And the fact that other people would google
> > something up for you has that they are essentially violating etiquette, too,
> > not really helping you and not helping the group grow as a whole either.
> 
> I've been on usenet for a long time - perhaps I didn't articulate my 
> question as well as I should (and I actually really appreciate the fact 
> that usenet is a text-based medium and that folks should make the effort to 
> present their requests / solutions clearly).

Have you?  That's not reassuring...  It was all quite clear.  As well as the
suggestion to just look it up, and to also have a look at what a smart question
actually is (that part you have simply snipped).

> > That said, does it really matter?  I suppose it's matter of opinion (I won't
> > belabour), but I won't deny I am another one who thinks RTFM or "look it up"
> > remain the most appropriate answers to at least half of the questions that get
> > posted: and not with malice, that is really lesson number one along that
> > learning curve.
> 
> Banged to rights here

Invited to being collaborative, rather.  You are not being much reasonable at
all.  (Have fun, sure, but responsibly.)

> - perhaps I was being a little lazy. Sometimes you 
> don't quite know what to look for until someone has given some clues as to 
> what you might find IYSWIM.

Indeed, you were given clues, that another world is possible, as well as links
to products...

Enough said, I hope the clarifications were at least useful, if nothing else.

Take care, (EOD.)

Julio

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#38009

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 07:05:43 -0800 (PST), Julio Di Egidio
<julio@diegidio.name> wrote:

  <snip>
>Thomas is a bit picky on netiquette, and not unreasonably so, Usenet is not a
>forum, and the demise of Usenet is to begin with the demise of Usenet etiquette.
>The first fact he mentions is that you are supposed to use a real name and email
>address when you post here: people have to take responsibility for what they
>post.  
  <snip>

So you would never use Student's t-test for quality control because
Student wasn't his name.

So you would like to destroy all books by Mark Twain because Mark
Twain was not his name.

You are being silly. It's the content that counts, not the authority
of the person perporting to be the author. In particular, we neither
know nor care if Julio Di Egidio is the name you are known to your
family, friends, employer, etc. We read the words.

  John

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#38010

On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 20:13:01 UTC+1, John G Harris  wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 07:05:43 -0800 (PST), Julio Di Egidio
> <julio@diegidio.name> wrote:
> 
>   <snip>
> >Thomas is a bit picky on netiquette, and not unreasonably so, Usenet is not a
> >forum, and the demise of Usenet is to begin with the demise of Usenet etiquette.
> >The first fact he mentions is that you are supposed to use a real name and email
> >address when you post here: people have to take responsibility for what they
> >post.  
>   <snip>
> 
> So you would never use Student's t-test for quality control because
> Student wasn't his name.
> 
> So you would like to destroy all books by Mark Twain because Mark
> Twain was not his name.
> 
> You are being silly.

I am taking about Usenet, you are being silly.

> It's the content that counts, not the authority

But I said why, on Usenet, it is expected.  Do anonymous posting where it is
appropriate, not here.

Does that help?  I guess not, not anymore...

*Plonk*

Julio

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#38016

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 11:39:25 -0800 (PST), Julio Di Egidio
<julio@diegidio.name> wrote:

>On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 20:13:01 UTC+1, John G Harris  wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 07:05:43 -0800 (PST), Julio Di Egidio
>> <julio@diegidio.name> wrote:
>> 
>>   <snip>
>> >Thomas is a bit picky on netiquette, and not unreasonably so, Usenet is not a
>> >forum, and the demise of Usenet is to begin with the demise of Usenet etiquette.
>> >The first fact he mentions is that you are supposed to use a real name and email
>> >address when you post here: people have to take responsibility for what they
>> >post.  
>>   <snip>
>> 
>> So you would never use Student's t-test for quality control because
>> Student wasn't his name.
>> 
>> So you would like to destroy all books by Mark Twain because Mark
>> Twain was not his name.
>> 
>> You are being silly.
>
>I am taking about Usenet, you are being silly.
>
>> It's the content that counts, not the authority
>
>But I said why, on Usenet, it is expected.  Do anonymous posting where it is
>appropriate, not here.
  <snip>

Who said anything about "anonymous" posting? I certainly didn't.
Please pay attention in future.

  John

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#38017

In article <c22e1ftbrl52qmbsrg2jpbjrf079ln5du0@4ax.com>, 
niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid says...
> >But I said why, on Usenet, it is expected.  Do anonymous posting where it is
> >appropriate, not here.
>   <snip>
> 
> Who said anything about "anonymous" posting? I certainly didn't.
> Please pay attention in future.
> 
In my experience, real names are not "expected" on usenet - certainly i've 
never been pulled up for it in any other groups - so perhaps it's a 
preference on this one. I would't want to change my posting identity for 
different newsgroups - bit of a faff.

However I do appreciate that each ng might have its own standards and 
expecations of poster behaviour.


-- 
jeremy

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#38018

On Thursday, 9 January 2020 12:18:52 UTC+1, jeremy  wrote:
> In article <c22e1ftbrl52qmbsrg2jpbjrf079ln5du0@4ax.com>, 
> niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid says...

Still messing up with quotes and attributions?

> > >But I said why, on Usenet, it is expected.  Do anonymous posting where it is
> > >appropriate, not here.
> >   <snip>
> > 
> > Who said anything about "anonymous" posting? I certainly didn't.
> > Please pay attention in future.
> > 
> In my experience, real names are not "expected" on usenet - certainly i've
> never been pulled up for it in any other groups

I was talking Usenet etiquette, which is a fact, and you simply keep making
stuff up.

Either your "long experience on Usenet" is max 5 years and you have in fact
no clue what you are talking about, or you and your alter-ego there just did
a plain spamming stunt and now you just keep adding bullshit to offence.

> However I do appreciate that each ng might have its own standards and 
> expecations of poster behaviour.

This ain't alt.pics, that's for sure...

*Plonk*

Julio

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#38019

In article <7600c9f7-0668-4ce4-8771-bf4c902de29a@googlegroups.com>, 
julio@diegidio.name says...
> 
> On Thursday, 9 January 2020 12:18:52 UTC+1, jeremy  wrote:
> > In article <c22e1ftbrl52qmbsrg2jpbjrf079ln5du0@4ax.com>, 
> > niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid says...
> 
> Still messing up with quotes and attributions?
> 
> > > >But I said why, on Usenet, it is expected.  Do anonymous posting where it is
> > > >appropriate, not here.
> > >   <snip>
> > > 
> > > Who said anything about "anonymous" posting? I certainly didn't.
> > > Please pay attention in future.
> > > 
> > In my experience, real names are not "expected" on usenet - certainly i've
> > never been pulled up for it in any other groups
> 
> I was talking Usenet etiquette, which is a fact, and you simply keep making
> stuff up.

Jolly good. Go take a look at uk.comp.sys.mac - and find a lovely community 
of folk who help each other out - with no insistence on e.g. full names 
being present. That ng is as representative of usenet as this one - I'm 
making nothing up, merely sharing my experience (which is 15+ years but is 
limited to no more than 10 newsgroups in that time I'll confess).

I am not "making stuff up" - just actually having a conversation but it 
appears you've got all huffy.
> 
> Either your "long experience on Usenet" is max 5 years and you have in fact
> no clue what you are talking about, or you and your alter-ego 

Crikey, you're looking for something that isn't there.

> there just did
> a plain spamming stunt and now you just keep adding bullshit to offence.
> 
> > However I do appreciate that each ng might have its own standards and 
> > expecations of poster behaviour.
> 
> This ain't alt.pics, that's for sure...
> 
> *Plonk*
> 

Crumbs - what a diva.


-- 
jeremy

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#38024 — [OT] Netiquette (was: Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like))

On 09.01.20 12:59, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

> On Thursday, 9 January 2020 12:18:52 UTC+1, jeremy  wrote:
>> In article <c22e1ftbrl52qmbsrg2jpbjrf079ln5du0@4ax.com>, 
>> niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid says...
> 
> Still messing up with quotes and attributions?
> 
>>>> But I said why, on Usenet, it is expected.  Do anonymous posting where it is
>>>> appropriate, not here.
>>>   <snip>
>>>
>>> Who said anything about "anonymous" posting? I certainly didn't.
>>> Please pay attention in future.
>>>
>> In my experience, real names are not "expected" on usenet - certainly i've
>> never been pulled up for it in any other groups
> 
> I was talking Usenet etiquette, which is a fact, and you simply keep making
> stuff up.

See: <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855>

Did I miss anything? I couldn't find any rule there that one should only
post using a real name. Only for real time communication the *opposite*
is true:

"If a user is using a nickname alias or pseudonym, respect that
user's desire for anonymity.  Even if you and that person are
close friends, it is more courteous to use his nickname.  Do
not use that person's real name online without permission."

I know at least the German Netiquette based of RFC1855 with some
additions in 1997 tells the people they should always use their real
name - but when this text was first published 23 years(!) ago when the
internet was way different compared to today. Even if you see the last
edit to fix typos etc. as the latest relevant update - this was 2006,
which is also already 14 years ago. At that time companies like Facebook
or Google were not that powerful as they are today. Asking people today
to provide there full real name in public media to show their
"politeness" should be considered evil.

BTW: at least in Germany a provider *must* allow the users to use a
nickname in public communication channels, even if you are required to
register with your real identiy.

I post using my real name - but this is solely my own decision as I am
willing to accept the potential risks involved and I would never
recommend anyone to do the same just because there is a 23 year old
"recommendation" to do so.


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#38025 — Re: [OT] Netiquette (was: Re: Library for drag/drop/connect objects (visio-like))

On Friday, 10 January 2020 11:26:38 UTC+1, Arno Welzel  wrote:
> On 09.01.20 12:59, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
> > On Thursday, 9 January 2020 12:18:52 UTC+1, jeremy  wrote:
> >> In article <c22e1ftbrl52qmbsrg2jpbjrf079ln5du0@4ax.com>, 
> >> niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid says...
> > 
> > Still messing up with quotes and attributions?
> > 
> >>>> But I said why, on Usenet, it is expected.  Do anonymous posting where it is
> >>>> appropriate, not here.
> >>>   <snip>
> >>>
> >>> Who said anything about "anonymous" posting? I certainly didn't.
> >>> Please pay attention in future.
> >>>
> >> In my experience, real names are not "expected" on usenet - certainly i've
> >> never been pulled up for it in any other groups
> > 
> > I was talking Usenet etiquette, which is a fact, and you simply keep
> > making stuff up.
> 
> See: <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855>

That is not *Usenet* etiquette (I don't even know where the original Usenet
FAQ is, probably lost under 20+ years of bullshit as everything else that
counts), that is generic netiquette, but indeed you can see enough hints in
there already!

Usenet wants real identities because it is an unmoderated, "democratic"
means where each and every single person has to take responsibility or it
just won't work.  As well as it requires not feeding nut cases, and not
feeding the trolls...  And the demise of Usenet, which is indeed first
and foremost the demise of Usenet etiquette, indeed mainly coincides with
the advent of Google Groups, and it's a matter of some 15 years max (I
said 5 years earlier, that was a momentary lapse of reason, sometimes I
forget how long I have been "in computers").

> Did I miss anything? I couldn't find any rule there that one should only
> post using a real name. Only for real time communication the *opposite*
> is true:
> 
> "If a user is using a nickname alias or pseudonym, respect that
> user's desire for anonymity.  Even if you and that person are
> close friends, it is more courteous to use his nickname.  Do
> not use that person's real name online without permission."
> 
> I know at least the German Netiquette based of RFC1855 with some
> additions in 1997 tells the people they should always use their real
> name - but when this text was first published 23 years(!) ago when the
> internet was way different compared to today. Even if you see the last
> edit to fix typos etc. as the latest relevant update - this was 2006,
> which is also already 14 years ago. At that time companies like Facebook
> or Google were not that powerful as they are today. Asking people today
> to provide there full real name in public media to show their
> "politeness" should be considered evil.
> 
> BTW: at least in Germany a provider *must* allow the users to use a
> nickname in public communication channels, even if you are required to
> register with your real identiy.
> 
> I post using my real name - but this is solely my own decision as I am
> willing to accept the potential risks involved and I would never
> recommend anyone to do the same just because there is a 23 year old
> "recommendation" to do so.

I disagree even on that, and very strongly so: it is because of that vile
contra-philosophy that this world is the shithole for everybody that it
is up to total annihilation, aka you guys just won't even contemplate just
doing the right thing ever...  But of course I can see your point there,
and, if you and the others reread what I actually wrote, I had not to in
fact said otherwise at any point, I have repreatdly tried to say that
I was giving a "history lesson" and nothing more.  Indeed, I do agree with
you on that: this *is* a new world, where nobody can even really read
anymore (which is not about "alphabetism", it's about "lobotomy")...

Indeed, as before, I hope that helps and you just don't take it personally:
I am an optimist...

EOD: cross-post to alt.philosphy and alt.the-demise-of-the-human.race for
more.

;)

Julio

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#38040 — Re: [OT] Netiquette

On 10.01.20 16:01, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

> On Friday, 10 January 2020 11:26:38 UTC+1, Arno Welzel  wrote:
>> On 09.01.20 12:59, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 9 January 2020 12:18:52 UTC+1, jeremy  wrote:
>>>> In article <c22e1ftbrl52qmbsrg2jpbjrf079ln5du0@4ax.com>, 
>>>> niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid says...
>>>
>>> Still messing up with quotes and attributions?
>>>
>>>>>> But I said why, on Usenet, it is expected.  Do anonymous posting where it is
>>>>>> appropriate, not here.
>>>>>   <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> Who said anything about "anonymous" posting? I certainly didn't.
>>>>> Please pay attention in future.
>>>>>
>>>> In my experience, real names are not "expected" on usenet - certainly i've
>>>> never been pulled up for it in any other groups
>>>
>>> I was talking Usenet etiquette, which is a fact, and you simply keep
>>> making stuff up.
>>
>> See: <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855>
> 
> That is not *Usenet* etiquette (I don't even know where the original Usenet
> FAQ is, probably lost under 20+ years of bullshit as everything else that
> counts), that is generic netiquette, but indeed you can see enough hints in
> there already!


<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855>

3.2.3. NetNews

    - Publicize the nature of the feed you receive.  If you do not get
      a full feed, people may want to know why not.

    - Be aware that the multiplicity of News Reader clients may cause
      the News Server being blamed for problems in the clients.

    - Honor requests from users immediately if they request cancellation
      of their own posts or invalid posts, such as chain letters.

    - Have "Usenet", "Netnews" and "News" aliased and make sure someone
      reads the mail.

> Usenet wants real identities because it is an unmoderated, "democratic"
> means where each and every single person has to take responsibility or it
> just won't work.  As well as it requires not feeding nut cases, and not
> feeding the trolls...  And the demise of Usenet, which is indeed first

"Taking responsibility" has nothing to do with real names. It's just
easier to filter people only use their real name. But if they don't
behave properly, it makes no difference if they use their real name or not.

One can also behave properly when using a pseudonym and for groups which
are about sexuality etc. pseudonyms are "officially" allowed, at least
for de.*: <https://www.kirchwitz.de/~amk/dni/netiquette>.

> and foremost the demise of Usenet etiquette, indeed mainly coincides with
> the advent of Google Groups, and it's a matter of some 15 years max (I
> said 5 years earlier, that was a momentary lapse of reason, sometimes I
> forget how long I have been "in computers").

Google Groups has nothing to do with this as it started in 2001 and not
1997.



-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#38041 — Re: [OT] Netiquette

Arno Welzel and others wrote in comp.lang.javascript: 

> Re: [OT] Netiquette

Netiquette in NEVER off-topic on a NG,
it automaticly shares its topicness with the topic.

-- 
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

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#38042 — Re: [OT] Netiquette

On Monday, 13 January 2020 11:00:17 UTC+1, Arno Welzel  wrote:
> On 10.01.20 16:01, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
> > On Friday, 10 January 2020 11:26:38 UTC+1, Arno Welzel  wrote:
> >> On 09.01.20 12:59, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, 9 January 2020 12:18:52 UTC+1, jeremy  wrote:
> >>>> In article <c22e1ftbrl52qmbsrg2jpbjrf079ln5du0@4ax.com>, 
> >>>> niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid says...
> >>>
> >>> Still messing up with quotes and attributions?
> >>>
> >>>>>> But I said why, on Usenet, it is expected.  Do anonymous posting where it is
> >>>>>> appropriate, not here.
> >>>>>   <snip>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Who said anything about "anonymous" posting? I certainly didn't.
> >>>>> Please pay attention in future.
> >>>>>
> >>>> In my experience, real names are not "expected" on usenet - certainly i've
> >>>> never been pulled up for it in any other groups
> >>>
> >>> I was talking Usenet etiquette, which is a fact, and you simply keep
> >>> making stuff up.
> >>
> >> See: <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855>
> > 
> > That is not *Usenet* etiquette (I don't even know where the original Usenet
> > FAQ is, probably lost under 20+ years of bullshit as everything else that
> > counts), that is generic netiquette, but indeed you can see enough hints in
> > there already!
> 
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855>
> 
> 3.2.3. NetNews
> 
>     - Publicize the nature of the feed you receive.  If you do not get
>       a full feed, people may want to know why not.
> 
>     - Be aware that the multiplicity of News Reader clients may cause
>       the News Server being blamed for problems in the clients.
> 
>     - Honor requests from users immediately if they request cancellation
>       of their own posts or invalid posts, such as chain letters.
> 
>     - Have "Usenet", "Netnews" and "News" aliased and make sure someone
>       reads the mail.

Yeah, you quote and SO WHAT?  You cannot articulate a thought??  And, to
the point, you do understand that That is not *Usenet* etiquette, it's
everything with Usenet mentioned among other things...??  What the fuck
is wrong with you too?

> > Usenet wants real identities because it is an unmoderated, "democratic"
> > means where each and every single person has to take responsibility or it
> > just won't work.  As well as it requires not feeding nut cases, and not
> > feeding the trolls...  And the demise of Usenet, which is indeed first
> 
> "Taking responsibility" has nothing to do with real names.

Another nonsensical statement...

You guys are fucking insane, a bunch of stupid irrecoverable unteachable
cunts indeed.

*Plonk*

Julio

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#38043 — Re: [OT] Netiquette

In article <9b1926c0-fb92-479c-b7a4-c2504237ed0f@googlegroups.com>, 
julio@diegidio.name says...
> *Plonk*
> 

What's the effect of this? I assume it means "you're in my killfile" or 
"I'm abandoning this conversation".

You already did this on 8th January so what's its purpose? Is it also a 
part of usenet etiquette?

-- 
jeremy

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