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Groups > comp.lang.javascript > #12689 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2012-03-13 22:35 -0700 |
| Last post | 2012-03-17 23:27 -0700 |
| Articles | 2 on this page of 42 — 13 participants |
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onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-13 22:35 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2012-03-13 22:40 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Norman Peelman <npeelmandog@cfl.rr.com> - 2012-03-14 17:59 -0400
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2012-03-14 15:10 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-14 17:57 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2012-03-14 19:39 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2012-03-14 23:53 -0300
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2012-03-14 20:26 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-14 22:13 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2012-03-14 22:40 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-15 08:25 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2012-03-18 13:07 -0300
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2012-03-19 00:05 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup "Mel Smith" <med_cutout_syntel@aol.com> - 2012-03-19 09:54 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-19 12:37 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup "Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivoort@interxnl.net> - 2012-03-19 20:53 +0000
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-19 16:20 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-03-20 12:12 +1100
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-19 18:45 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2012-03-20 17:17 +1100
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2012-03-20 16:37 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-20 19:25 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Dr J R Stockton <reply1212@merlyn.demon.co.uk.not.invalid> - 2012-03-21 19:27 +0000
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-21 19:19 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup "Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivoort@interxnl.net> - 2012-03-22 16:06 +0000
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-22 09:59 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup "Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivoort@interxnl.net> - 2012-03-22 18:10 +0000
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-03-22 19:19 +0000
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Mike Duffy <Use_guestbook_page@website.in.sig> - 2012-03-23 01:44 +0000
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-22 12:36 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup "Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivoort@interxnl.net> - 2012-03-23 09:05 +0000
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup "Mel Smith" <med_cutout_syntel@aol.com> - 2012-03-19 15:49 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Ross McKay <au.org.zeta.at.rosko@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-16 12:59 +1100
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-15 21:58 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Ross McKay <au.org.zeta.at.rosko@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-16 18:13 +1100
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-16 08:11 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup John G Harris <john@nospam.demon.co.uk> - 2012-03-16 16:58 +0000
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-16 12:05 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Dr J R Stockton <reply1211@merlyn.demon.co.uk.not.invalid> - 2012-03-17 19:13 +0000
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Ross McKay <au.org.zeta.at.rosko@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-18 12:46 +1100
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> - 2012-03-17 19:13 -0700
Re: onkeydown and onkeyup Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-03-17 23:27 -0700
Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]
| From | David Mark <dmark.cinsoft@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-03-17 19:13 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ae439ff1-ee10-4841-b24a-3571bf554970@w1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #12867 |
On Mar 17, 9:46 pm, Ross McKay <au.org.zeta.at.ro...@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 19:13:41 +0000, Dr J R Stockton wrote: > > >In comp.lang.javascript message <f065m7drajqg13nlbufmrvj4pminbato7h@4ax. > >com>, Fri, 16 Mar 2012 12:59:29, Ross McKay <au.org.zeta.at.rosko@invali > >d.invalid> posted: > > >>Gene, it sounds a lot like you are enforcing non-web data entry on web > >>browsers. This means that anyone used to using web applications that > >>behave in the standard way will have problems with your data entry > >>restrictions. > > >That does not matter for what is essentially an intranet application > >(even if accessible over the public internet), with users already > >trained to work in that fashion and given one specific browser. > > Sure, as long as you have a static pool of users who are never replaced > with new blood with other experiences, and who can separate their user > interface experiences with different tools sufficiently. Gene has > indicated that this is the case with his users; good enough for me. The users are immortal? :) > > It has not been so for the users of applications I've worked on (e.g. > just when everyone seems settled down with how the applications work, > half of them are either promoted, retrenched, or go on maternity leave > and new hires start learning afresh). That sounds like a more realistic expectation. > IME, it is better to make > allowance for people new to a system than to constrict them with an > alien environment, and fitting in with established UI behaviour helps > keep people focussed on what they actually need to learn rather than how > to enter data. > > From what Gene describes of his environment, he is actually doing all of > that, so I have no quibbles with his approach other than that it > requires more hoop jumping and may need adjustments every time a new > version of IE comes out. He's happy with that; well and good. Or if the company decides to switch to or add another browser, adds an extranet for mobile use, etc. > > For users of applications I write this century, my base assumption is > that they have experience of using online forms, and *maybe* have some > other data entry experience. Many of them have little more experience > entering data into a computer than what they've gathered using web > searches, Facebook, online ordering, and banking. Thus, I try to keep > data entry UI as friendly as possible, whilst still ensuring that data > is validated before accepting it. > > >Those writing for another specific browser may well find testing also in > >Current Opera useful, since it takes only two clicks to do a W3C > >validation and another to see the result. > > Or use the Web Developer plugin for Firefox. (NB: I concur with your > statements on Opera, just offering the alternative; and any of Opera, > Firefox, Chrome are better than fighting with IE while writing new > code!) > > >Aside : The content of SHOWTREE.HTM did move into JS-PROPS.HTM. > > Applause? :) There was much rejoicing. Yea. :)
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-03-17 23:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <qovam75to9k4e97vlhkjmf8cbf00r9sf50@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #12867 |
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:46:52 +1100, Ross McKay
<au.org.zeta.at.rosko@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 19:13:41 +0000, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
>
>>In comp.lang.javascript message <f065m7drajqg13nlbufmrvj4pminbato7h@4ax.
>>com>, Fri, 16 Mar 2012 12:59:29, Ross McKay <au.org.zeta.at.rosko@invali
>>d.invalid> posted:
>>>
>>>Gene, it sounds a lot like you are enforcing non-web data entry on web
>>>browsers. This means that anyone used to using web applications that
>>>behave in the standard way will have problems with your data entry
>>>restrictions.
>>
>>That does not matter for what is essentially an intranet application
>>(even if accessible over the public internet), with users already
>>trained to work in that fashion and given one specific browser.
Quite.
>Sure, as long as you have a static pool of users who are never replaced
>with new blood with other experiences, and who can separate their user
>interface experiences with different tools sufficiently. Gene has
>indicated that this is the case with his users; good enough for me.
Employee turnover is low. They are not stupid and can learn, so
even if it is different, they will learn it soon enough. If they use
the app, they will be doing a lot of DE. It is not a case of using it
only occasionally and forgetting how in between.
>It has not been so for the users of applications I've worked on (e.g.
>just when everyone seems settled down with how the applications work,
>half of them are either promoted, retrenched, or go on maternity leave
>and new hires start learning afresh). IME, it is better to make
Not the case for me.
>allowance for people new to a system than to constrict them with an
>alien environment, and fitting in with established UI behaviour helps
>keep people focussed on what they actually need to learn rather than how
>to enter data.
IME, it is better to make allowances for those who will be using
a system heavily. A newbie will be a newbie for only a short time.
>From what Gene describes of his environment, he is actually doing all of
>that, so I have no quibbles with his approach other than that it
>requires more hoop jumping and may need adjustments every time a new
>version of IE comes out. He's happy with that; well and good.
Exactly. Anything has trade-offs. There is no one answer.
>For users of applications I write this century, my base assumption is
>that they have experience of using online forms, and *maybe* have some
>other data entry experience. Many of them have little more experience
>entering data into a computer than what they've gathered using web
>searches, Facebook, online ordering, and banking. Thus, I try to keep
>data entry UI as friendly as possible, whilst still ensuring that data
>is validated before accepting it.
My definition of friendly is different, because the situation is
different.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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