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What do you put in the <noscript/> section for a script-heavy page?

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  What do you put in the <noscript/> section for a script-heavy page? luserdroog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2019-09-29 13:17 -0700
    Re: What do you put in the <noscript/> section for a script-heavy page? luserdroog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2019-09-29 13:24 -0700
      Re: What do you put in the <noscript/> section for a script-heavy page? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-09-29 13:43 -0700
    Re: What do you put in the <noscript/> section for a script-heavy page? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-09-29 13:41 -0700
      Re: What do you put in the <noscript/> section for a script-heavy page? luserdroog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2019-09-29 20:14 -0700
        Re: What do you put in the <noscript/> section for a script-heavy page? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-09-29 20:58 -0700
          Re: What do you put in the <noscript/> section for a script-heavy page? luserdroog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 00:01 -0700
            Re: What do you put in the <noscript/> section for a script-heavy page? luserdroog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2019-09-30 00:22 -0700

#37467 — What do you put in the <noscript/> section for a script-heavy page?

In my latest rewrite of my Turtle Doodle web app, I've been able
to achieve all of the functionality I had with the previous php/mysql
backend but just using javascript and session storage.

But I still want to do something useful with the backend since it's
closer to my usual unix scripting pov. So, how stupid is this following idea?

Present all the js functionality in the script tag, BUT present static content
in the noscript area. It should be a usable version of the usual dynamic page,
albeit requiring a roundtrip on every operation. 

I think for the simple drawings I'm trying to do, I can easily generate
an svg with a polyline, eg.

<svg width="504" height="376">
<polyline points="
10,10 30,10 30,30 70,30 70,50
110,50 110,70 150,70 150,90 190,90
190,110 230,110 230,130 250,130
" style="fill:white;stroke:black;stroke-width:2" />
</svg>

The bad part I forsee is -- after reimplementing the same thing I already
have but in a different language with even weirder user interaction --
*keeping* the two different programs in sync so all functions are 
appropriately duplicated.

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#37468

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 3:17:49 PM UTC-5, luserdroog wrote:
> In my latest rewrite of my Turtle Doodle web app, I've been able
> to achieve all of the functionality I had with the previous php/mysql
> backend but just using javascript and session storage.
> 
> But I still want to do something useful with the backend since it's
> closer to my usual unix scripting pov. So, how stupid is this following idea?
> 
> Present all the js functionality in the script tag, BUT present static content
> in the noscript area. It should be a usable version of the usual dynamic page,
> albeit requiring a roundtrip on every operation. 
> 
[snip svg digression]
> The bad part I forsee is -- after reimplementing the same thing I already
> have but in a different language with even weirder user interaction --
> *keeping* the two different programs in sync so all functions are 
> appropriately duplicated.

Or is this a good place use Node.js? How hard is to serve node scripts
with Apache? 

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#37470

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 3:24:09 PM UTC-5, luserdroog wrote:
> [...]
>
> Or is this a good place use Node.js? How hard is to serve node scripts
> with Apache?

Node.js is straightforward enough to get running, but at this point I don't know what you need a server for.

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#37469

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 3:17:49 PM UTC-5, luserdroog wrote:
> In my latest rewrite of my Turtle Doodle web app, I've been able
> to achieve all of the functionality I had with the previous php/mysql
> backend but just using javascript and session storage.
> 
> But I still want to do something useful with the backend since it's
> closer to my usual unix scripting pov. So, how stupid is this following idea?


What does "something" consist of?

> Present all the js functionality in the script tag, BUT present static content
> in the noscript area. It should be a usable version of the usual dynamic page,
> albeit requiring a roundtrip on every operation. 

Seems excessive. You have access to the DOM, I don't know what you need the server for at this point.

> I think for the simple drawings I'm trying to do, I can easily generate
> an svg with a polyline, eg.
> 
> <svg width="504" height="376">
> <polyline points="
> 10,10 30,10 30,30 70,30 70,50
> 110,50 110,70 150,70 150,90 190,90
> 190,110 230,110 230,130 250,130
> " style="fill:white;stroke:black;stroke-width:2" />
> </svg>
> 
> The bad part I forsee is -- after reimplementing the same thing I already
> have but in a different language with even weirder user interaction --
> *keeping* the two different programs in sync so all functions are 
> appropriately duplicated.

Stick with what you're doing right now with canvas since you already understand the basics of it. Further down the line when it's working reconsider in retrospect, not during your first prototype.

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#37473

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 3:42:01 PM UTC-5, Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
> On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 3:17:49 PM UTC-5, luserdroog wrote:
> > In my latest rewrite of my Turtle Doodle web app, I've been able
> > to achieve all of the functionality I had with the previous php/mysql
> > backend but just using javascript and session storage.
> > 
> > But I still want to do something useful with the backend since it's
> > closer to my usual unix scripting pov. So, how stupid is this following idea?
> 
> 
> What does "something" consist of?

A very good question to which I don't have a good answer. For my purposes
"something" should consist of code which exercises back-end coding skillz.
Whatever might help land me a job. 

> > Present all the js functionality in the script tag, BUT present static content
> > in the noscript area. It should be a usable version of the usual dynamic page,
> > albeit requiring a roundtrip on every operation. 
> 
> Seems excessive. You have access to the DOM, I don't know what you need the server for at this point.
> 
> > I think for the simple drawings I'm trying to do, I can easily generate
> > an svg with a polyline, eg.
> > 
> > <svg width="504" height="376">
> > <polyline points="
> > 10,10 30,10 30,30 70,30 70,50
> > 110,50 110,70 150,70 150,90 190,90
> > 190,110 230,110 230,130 250,130
> > " style="fill:white;stroke:black;stroke-width:2" />
> > </svg>
> > 
> > The bad part I forsee is -- after reimplementing the same thing I already
> > have but in a different language with even weirder user interaction --
> > *keeping* the two different programs in sync so all functions are 
> > appropriately duplicated.
> 
> Stick with what you're doing right now with canvas since you already understand the basics of it. Further down the line when it's working reconsider in retrospect, not during your first prototype.

I suppose I agree. Another week or so polishing this turkey, tho,
and I may need to move on to something with more teeth. Something
actually useful maybe. A friend of mine suggested a git portal, somewhat
like a github lite, would be useful if it worked well.

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#37474

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 10:14:44 PM UTC-5, luserdroog wrote:
> [...]
>
> I suppose I agree. Another week or so polishing this turkey, tho,
> and I may need to move on to something with more teeth. Something
> actually useful maybe. A friend of mine suggested a git portal, somewhat
> like a github lite, would be useful if it worked well.

In the past when I've interviewed some people with hard to discern skills (Usually those coding bootcamp candidates). In those cases I've assigned a "homework" assignment that I would code review later with them. You could try your hand at it:


# Weather Application 

## Scope 

### Application Description 

Using the free weather service <http://openweathermap.org/API> you will build an application that allows users to know the weather for the week. The application should work in all modern browsers. The application should be accessible from a url.

### Requirements 

A user should be able to lookup the current forecast based on a location. 

This should be possible by entering a search 

This should be possible by getting the current user's location based on the browser's Geolocation feature. 

The user should be able to configure some defaults 

Forecast Range: How many days to forecast 

Default Location 

Temperature (Fahrenheit or Celsius) 

Anything else you think would be useful

Feel free to look at other weather applications for inspiration: 

https://www.wunderground.com/ 
https://weather.com/ 
http://www.accuweather.com
Etc. 

The source code should be saved at a web accessible repository such as

https://github.com
http://dev.azure.com
https://gitlab.com/

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#37477

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 10:58:58 PM UTC-5, Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
> On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 10:14:44 PM UTC-5, luserdroog wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> > I suppose I agree. Another week or so polishing this turkey, tho,
> > and I may need to move on to something with more teeth. Something
> > actually useful maybe. A friend of mine suggested a git portal, somewhat
> > like a github lite, would be useful if it worked well.
> 
> In the past when I've interviewed some people with hard to discern skills (Usually those coding bootcamp candidates). In those cases I've assigned a "homework" assignment that I would code review later with them. You could try your hand at it:
> 
> 
> # Weather Application 
> 
[snip]

Thanks, that seems well scoped. I'll give it a go.
FWIW Turtle Doodle is uploaded. If I don't need a backend,
I suppose I don't need a Linode account just yet.

https://luser-dr00g.github.io/doodle6/?doodle=A160FRFLFRFLFRFLFRFLFRFLFRFLFRFLFRFLFRFL

I plan to add the ability to name each doodle, and maybe
to click on line segments to select them.
Then maybe an *include* or *call* mechanism to link doodles
together.

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#37478

On Monday, September 30, 2019 at 2:01:24 AM UTC-5, luserdroog wrote:
> FWIW Turtle Doodle is uploaded. If I don't need a backend,
> I suppose I don't need a Linode account just yet.
> 
> https://luser-dr00g.github.io/doodle6/?doodle=A160FRFLFRFLFRFLFRFLFRFLFRFLFRFLFRFLFRFL
> 
> I plan to add the ability to name each doodle, and maybe
> to click on line segments to select them.
> Then maybe an *include* or *call* mechanism to link doodles
> together.

Darnit. From my other laptop, the middle-sized 2-column layout
isn't activating.

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