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DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes

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  DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-27 16:30 -0400
    Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2014-10-27 14:07 -0700
      Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-27 17:43 -0400
      Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2014-10-28 09:48 +1100
        Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2014-10-27 22:45 -0700
          Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2014-10-28 19:31 +1100
            Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-28 09:59 -0400
            Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-10-28 15:26 +0100
            Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2014-10-31 12:29 +1100
    Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-10-27 22:20 +0100
      Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-27 18:11 -0400
        Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-10-27 23:45 +0100
          Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-27 20:38 -0400
            Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-10-28 19:49 +0100
              Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-28 17:56 -0400
                Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-10-29 21:07 +0100
                  Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-30 12:50 -0400
                    Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-10-30 19:13 +0100
                      Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-30 17:17 -0400
                        Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-10-31 20:35 +0100
          Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-27 23:19 -0400
            Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2014-10-28 10:11 +0000
              Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-10-28 11:42 +0000
                Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-28 09:52 -0400
              Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-28 09:49 -0400
                Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2014-10-29 15:48 +0000
            Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-10-28 15:54 +0100
          Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2014-10-30 08:12 -0700
    Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2014-10-29 15:23 -0200
      Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-10-29 21:47 +0100
        Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2014-10-30 07:32 +0100
      Re: DOM style object property names with vendor prefixes "Chris Beall" <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> - 2014-10-30 10:47 -0400

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#26000

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Chris Beall wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:20:22 -0400, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>> <PointedEars@web.de> wrote:
>
> Please do not post attribution novels.

I have adjusted this in the Opera accounts.ini file on the Followup= line,  
which I eventually found (on OS X 10.8.5) at  
Users/MyUserName/Library/Application Support/Opera/mail/ and using the  
parameters documented at  
http://www.opera.com/help/tutorials/mail/advanced/#imap

What could be more obvious...

Chris Beall

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#26005

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 23:19:34 -0400, "Chris Beall"
<Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> wrote:

>Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>
>> Chris Beall wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:20:22 -0400, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>>> <PointedEars@web.de> wrote:
>>
>> Please do not post attribution novels.
>
>I have adjusted this in the Opera accounts.ini file on the Followup= line,  
>which I eventually found (on OS X 10.8.5) at  
>Users/MyUserName/Library/Application Support/Opera/mail/ and using the  
>parameters documented at  
>http://www.opera.com/help/tutorials/mail/advanced/#imap
>
>What could be more obvious...

Now convince yourself that you will *never* want to post a quote in
another thread.

Because if you do your "Thingy wrote:" line won't convince anyone that
you haven't invented the quote yourself.

  John

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#26006

In article <hsqu4a1of3ondtju34fulgb60dvpv6pumg@4ax.com>, John Harris
<niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 23:19:34 -0400, "Chris Beall"
> <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> wrote:
> 
> >Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> >
> >> Chris Beall wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:20:22 -0400, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
> >>> <PointedEars@web.de> wrote:
> >>
> >> Please do not post attribution novels.
> >
> >I have adjusted this in the Opera accounts.ini file on the Followup= line,  
> >which I eventually found (on OS X 10.8.5) at  
> >Users/MyUserName/Library/Application Support/Opera/mail/ and using the  
> >parameters documented at  
> >http://www.opera.com/help/tutorials/mail/advanced/#imap
> >
> >What could be more obvious...
> 
> Now convince yourself that you will *never* want to post a quote in
> another thread.
> 
> Because if you do your "Thingy wrote:" line won't convince anyone that
> you haven't invented the quote yourself.

And folks should take note that PointyHead does not own this ng,
however much he thinks he does. So use whatever form of attribution you
feel like.

-- 
"People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility
with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy
Microsoft because the IBM Selectric didn't suck much" - P Seebach, afc

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#26009

Tim Streater wrote:

> In article <hsqu4a1of3ondtju34fulgb60dvpv6pumg@4ax.com>, John Harris
> <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 23:19:34 -0400, "Chris Beall"
>> <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>  >Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> >
>> >> Chris Beall wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:20:22 -0400, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>> >>> <PointedEars@web.de> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Please do not post attribution novels.
>> >
(snip)
>>  Now convince yourself that you will *never* want to post a quote in
>> another thread.
>>  Because if you do your "Thingy wrote:" line won't convince anyone that
>> you haven't invented the quote yourself.
>
> And folks should take note that PointyHead does not own this ng,
> however much he thinks he does. So use whatever form of attribution you
> feel like.
>

I knew that, but I felt that Thomas had a valid point, in spite of the way  
in which he made it.

Chris Beall

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#26008

John Harris wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 23:19:34 -0400, "Chris Beall"
> <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>
>>> Chris Beall wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:20:22 -0400, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>>>> <PointedEars@web.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> Please do not post attribution novels.
>>
>> I have adjusted this in the Opera accounts.ini file on the Followup=  
>> line,
>> which I eventually found (on OS X 10.8.5) at
>> Users/MyUserName/Library/Application Support/Opera/mail/ and using the
>> parameters documented at
>> http://www.opera.com/help/tutorials/mail/advanced/#imap
>>
>> What could be more obvious...
>
> Now convince yourself that you will *never* want to post a quote in
> another thread.
>
> Because if you do your "Thingy wrote:" line won't convince anyone that
> you haven't invented the quote yourself.
>
>   John

I would hope that including a date, timestamp, and email address wouldn't  
convince anyone otherwise, as they are just as easily invented.
In any case, I have no intention of inventing quotes, and I'm not sure I  
want to deal with anyone who things I would.

Chris Beall

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#26024

On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:49:21 -0400, "Chris Beall"
<Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> wrote:

>John Harris wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 23:19:34 -0400, "Chris Beall"
>> <Chris_Beall@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chris Beall wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:20:22 -0400, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>>>>> <PointedEars@web.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Please do not post attribution novels.
>>>
>>> I have adjusted this in the Opera accounts.ini file on the Followup=  
>>> line,
>>> which I eventually found (on OS X 10.8.5) at
>>> Users/MyUserName/Library/Application Support/Opera/mail/ and using the
>>> parameters documented at
>>> http://www.opera.com/help/tutorials/mail/advanced/#imap
>>>
>>> What could be more obvious...
>>
>> Now convince yourself that you will *never* want to post a quote in
>> another thread.
>>
>> Because if you do your "Thingy wrote:" line won't convince anyone that
>> you haven't invented the quote yourself.
>>
>>   John
>
>I would hope that including a date, timestamp, and email address wouldn't  
>convince anyone otherwise, as they are just as easily invented.
>In any case, I have no intention of inventing quotes, and I'm not sure I  
>want to deal with anyone who things I would.

You haven't understood. The paper Thomas keeps pointing to says that
the unique Message-ID can be found in the article's headers. Well,
here's a case where it clearly can't. This destroys the entire
argument of the paper.

If, however, the you include information that will allow you to do a
newsgroup search then you can look at the original article to see if
it's being quoted in context and accurately.

  John

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#26012

Chris Beall wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Chris Beall wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:20:22 -0400, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
>>> <PointedEars@web.de> wrote:
>>
>> Please do not post attribution novels.
> 
> I have adjusted this in the Opera accounts.ini file on the Followup= line,
> which I eventually found (on OS X 10.8.5) at
> Users/MyUserName/Library/Application Support/Opera/mail/ and using the
> parameters documented at
> http://www.opera.com/help/tutorials/mail/advanced/#imap
> 
> What could be more obvious...

Thank you for the modification and for sharing the how-to.

-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | SVN: <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | ES Matrix: <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#26043

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Chris Beall wrote:

>> Could you elaborate?
> 
> (Do not ask a Yes-or-No question unless you want either Yes or No for an 
> answer.)

Do not answer Yes-or-No questions with anything other than a Yes or a
No unless you want to invite further Yes-or-No questions.

  -- Scott

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#26027

On 27/10/2014 18:30, Chris Beall wrote:
> I occasionally use JavaScript to dynamically modify style sheets.  This
> requires that I know the DOM equivalent of CSS property names.  For
> example: CSS property name 'animation-duration' becomes DOM name
> 'animationDuration'.  The general conversion formula seems to be: remove
> hyphens and capitalize the next letter (camel case).
> 
> But, for bleeding-edge functions, it often becomes necessary to add
> vendor-specific prefixes.  If there's a standard rule for that syntax, I
> haven't found it and would appreciate a pointer or two.

There's a W3C Recommendation for the CSS 2.1 Specification, section
4.1.2.1 Vendor-specific extensions:
<http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#vendor-keywords>


> Example:
> '-moz-animation-duration' seems to become 'MozAnimationDuration', but
> '-webkit-animation-duration' seems to become 'webkitAnimationDuration',
> i.e. a different case pattern.  When I say 'seems to become' I am
> referring to the results of experimentation on my part, which may be
> erroneous and which is complicated by the fact that some browsers don't
> seem to support modification of vendor-specific values at all.
> 
> I would appreciate authoritative references.

There are some tools that help dealing with the "Vendor-specific
extensions", as described in this article:
<http://css-tricks.com/how-to-deal-with-vendor-prefixes/>

Sometimes, I simply open the console in the target browser and try to
retrieve the attributes of a given element (the one who has
vendor-specific prefixes), e.g.

var el = document.getElementById('someID');
var atts = el.attributes;
[].slice.call(atts).forEach(function(item) {
  console.log(item.name + ': ' + item.value)
});

And sometimes I create a dummy div and retrieve its style, e.g.

var parseEl = document.createElement('div');
var css = parseEl.style;
for (i in css) {
  if (/moz|webkit/i.test(i)) console.log(i + ': ' + css[i])
}


-- 
Joao Rodrigues

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#26030

Joao Rodrigues wrote:

> On 27/10/2014 18:30, Chris Beall wrote:
>> [?] CSS property name 'animation-duration' becomes DOM name
>> 'animationDuration'.  The general conversion formula seems to be:
>> remove hyphens and capitalize the next letter (camel case).
>> 
>> But, for bleeding-edge functions, it often becomes necessary to add
>> vendor-specific prefixes.  If there's a standard rule for that syntax, I
>> haven't found it and would appreciate a pointer or two.
> 
> There's a W3C Recommendation for the CSS 2.1 Specification, section
> 4.1.2.1 Vendor-specific extensions:
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#vendor-keywords>

You are missing the point.  The question was about if there are any formal 
specifications as to how style property names translate to style *object* 
property names.

There are not; there are only de-facto standards (which Mozilla *appears* 
not to care to follow for some reason).
 
>> I would appreciate authoritative references.
> 
> There are some tools that help dealing with the "Vendor-specific
> extensions", as described in this article:
> <http://css-tricks.com/how-to-deal-with-vendor-prefixes/>

There is nothing authoritative about this site, so it fails to meet the 
request.

I strongly recommend to avoid all the approaches mentioned there except CSS 
preprocessors like LESS and SASS (use them server-side if possible).

> Sometimes, I simply open the console in the target browser and try to
> retrieve the attributes of a given element (the one who has
> vendor-specific prefixes), e.g.
> 
> var el = document.getElementById('someID');
> var atts = el.attributes;
> [].slice.call(atts).forEach(function(item) {
>   console.log(item.name + ': ' + item.value)
> });

I am not sure if this is a good idea at all.
 
> And sometimes I create a dummy div and retrieve its style, e.g.
> 
> var parseEl = document.createElement('div');
> var css = parseEl.style;
> for (i in css) {

(Unguarded) for-in iteration over host objects certainly is a Very Bad Idea, 
as you have been told before.

>   if (/moz|webkit/i.test(i)) console.log(i + ': ' + css[i])
> }

Should be at least /^(moz|webkit)/i.
 
-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | SVN: <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | ES Matrix: <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#26035

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Joao Rodrigues wrote:
>> On 27/10/2014 18:30, Chris Beall wrote:
>>> […] CSS property name 'animation-duration' becomes DOM name
>>> 'animationDuration'.  The general conversion formula seems to be:
>>> remove hyphens and capitalize the next letter (camel case).
>>> 
>>> But, for bleeding-edge functions, it often becomes necessary to add
>>> vendor-specific prefixes.  If there's a standard rule for that syntax, I
>>> haven't found it and would appreciate a pointer or two.
>> 
>> There's a W3C Recommendation for the CSS 2.1 Specification, section
>> 4.1.2.1 Vendor-specific extensions:
>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#vendor-keywords>
> 
> You are missing the point.  The question was about if there are any formal
> specifications as to how style property names translate to style *object*
> property names.
> 
> There are not; there are only de-facto standards (which Mozilla *appears*
> not to care to follow for some reason).

Make that _WebKit_.

-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | SVN: <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | ES Matrix: <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#26042

Joao Rodrigues wrote:

> On 27/10/2014 18:30, Chris Beall wrote:
>> I occasionally use JavaScript to dynamically modify style sheets.  This
>> requires that I know the DOM equivalent of CSS property names.  For
>> example: CSS property name 'animation-duration' becomes DOM name
>> 'animationDuration'.  The general conversion formula seems to be: remove
>> hyphens and capitalize the next letter (camel case).
>>
>> But, for bleeding-edge functions, it often becomes necessary to add
>> vendor-specific prefixes.  If there's a standard rule for that syntax, I
>> haven't found it and would appreciate a pointer or two.
>
> There's a W3C Recommendation for the CSS 2.1 Specification, section
> 4.1.2.1 Vendor-specific extensions:
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#vendor-keywords>

Good information, but addresses CSS syntax, not DOM syntax.
So, in CSS, "All CSS syntax is case-insensitive within the ASCII range  
(i.e., [a-z] and [A-Z] are equivalent), except for parts that are not  
under the control of CSS." and, for vendor prefixes, "Keywords and  
property names beginning with -' or '_' are reserved for vendor-specific  
extensions.", which, as a later table in the same reference shows, doesn't  
mean vendors will always use the syntax reserved for them.
In the DOM objects representing CSS properties, however, different  
conventions (perhaps they are rules, but the authoritative reference has  
been elusive thus far).  The convention seem to be (whether  
vendor-specific prefixes are being used or not): 1. lowercase the property  
name, 2, uppercase each letter that follows a dash, 3. remove all dashes.
Thus W3C 'official' property names (which never start with a dash) will  
always be camel-cased in the DOM, while vendor-specific ones will always  
have an uppercase letter at, and only at, the beginning of each word, ex:  
border-top becomes borderTop, -moz-animation-duration becomes  
MozAnimationDuration.
The DOM representation IS case sensitive, so doing the conversion  
correctly is important if you are modifying the DOM.
All of the above was determined by experiment.  Since experiments seldom  
cover all possibilities, I would appreciate hearing about contrary  
experimental results.

(snip)
>> I would appreciate authoritative references.
>
> There are some tools that help dealing with the "Vendor-specific
> extensions", as described in this article:
> <http://css-tricks.com/how-to-deal-with-vendor-prefixes/>

If I were doing commercial work, I might seek out such tools, but I prefer  
hand coding, which helps me understand what I did if I have to go back  
later to make a change.  It's harder for me to stay current with multiple  
tools than with a few basic specifications.  Just a personal preference.

Chris Beall

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