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Now that Google is going to remove cookies...

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  Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Groo Vee <groovee@cyberdude.com> - 2021-03-04 07:05 -0800
    Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2021-03-04 10:57 -0800
      Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2021-03-04 20:47 +0100
        Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2021-03-06 18:29 +0100
          Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2021-03-06 23:45 +0100
            Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2021-03-07 23:08 +0100
          Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-03-06 18:30 -0500
            Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2021-03-07 23:09 +0100
            Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2021-03-08 00:31 +0100
              Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2021-03-08 09:50 +0100
                Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2021-03-08 11:44 +0000
                  Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2021-03-08 16:34 +0100
                    Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2021-03-09 18:17 +0000
      Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Groo Vee <groovee@cyberdude.com> - 2021-03-05 20:13 -0800
        Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2021-03-06 07:45 -0800
    Re: Now that Google is going to remove cookies... Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2021-03-06 18:35 +0100

#39570 — Now that Google is going to remove cookies...

...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like BRAVE and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying that it's about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to them??

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#39571

On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:05:32 AM UTC-6, Groo Vee wrote:
> ...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like BRAVE and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying that it's about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to them??

What does this have to do with JavaScript?

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#39572

Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:

> On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:05:32 AM UTC-6, Groo Vee wrote:
>> ...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like BRAVE
>> and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying that it's
>> about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to them??
> 
> What does this have to do with JavaScript?

If I am not mistaken, cookies have been a way to store information using 
JavaScript since JavaScript 1.0.

-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
<https://github.com/PointedEars> | <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | Please do not cc me./Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#39591

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:

> Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:05:32 AM UTC-6, Groo Vee wrote:
>>> ...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like BRAVE
>>> and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying that it's
>>> about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to them??
>>
>> What does this have to do with JavaScript?
> 
> If I am not mistaken, cookies have been a way to store information using 
> JavaScript since JavaScript 1.0.

No, cookies are a way to store information, usually originally created
on the *server*. It has nothing to do with JavaScript. JavaScript can
just use cookies as well.


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#39594

Arno Welzel wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
>> Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:05:32 AM UTC-6, Groo Vee wrote:
>>>> ...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like
>>>> BRAVE and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying
>>>> that it's about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to
>>>> them??
>>> What does this have to do with JavaScript?
>> If I am not mistaken, cookies have been a way to store information using
>> JavaScript since JavaScript 1.0.
> 
> No, cookies are a way to store information, usually originally created
> on the *server*. It has nothing to do with JavaScript. JavaScript can
> just use cookies as well.

Utter nonsense.

-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
<https://github.com/PointedEars> | <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | Please do not cc me./Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#39597

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
> 
>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
>>> Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:05:32 AM UTC-6, Groo Vee wrote:
>>>>> ...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like
>>>>> BRAVE and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying
>>>>> that it's about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to
>>>>> them??
>>>> What does this have to do with JavaScript?
>>> If I am not mistaken, cookies have been a way to store information using
>>> JavaScript since JavaScript 1.0.
>>
>> No, cookies are a way to store information, usually originally created
>> on the *server*. It has nothing to do with JavaScript. JavaScript can
>> just use cookies as well.
> 
> Utter nonsense.

What exactly is "utter nonsense"?

What has <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6265> to do with JavaScript?


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#39596

On 3/6/21 12:29 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
> 
>> Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:05:32 AM UTC-6, Groo Vee wrote:
>>>> ...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like BRAVE
>>>> and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying that it's
>>>> about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to them??
>>>
>>> What does this have to do with JavaScript?
>>
>> If I am not mistaken, cookies have been a way to store information using 
>> JavaScript since JavaScript 1.0.
> 
> No, cookies are a way to store information, usually originally created
> on the *server*. It has nothing to do with JavaScript. JavaScript can
> just use cookies as well.
> 
> 

No, the cookie was a client size storage for a key to allow the
stateless HTTP protocol to remember from one request to another.

An alternative to using the session cookie, was to add a session ID to
the URL of links to provide the key.

Yes, most the information was stored server side, but the cookie
provided a key to that.

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#39598

Richard Damon:

> On 3/6/21 12:29 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
>>
>>> Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:05:32 AM UTC-6, Groo Vee wrote:
>>>>> ...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like BRAVE
>>>>> and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying that it's
>>>>> about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to them??
>>>>
>>>> What does this have to do with JavaScript?
>>>
>>> If I am not mistaken, cookies have been a way to store information using 
>>> JavaScript since JavaScript 1.0.
>>
>> No, cookies are a way to store information, usually originally created
>> on the *server*. It has nothing to do with JavaScript. JavaScript can
>> just use cookies as well.
>>
>>
> 
> No, the cookie was a client size storage for a key to allow the
> stateless HTTP protocol to remember from one request to another.

And? Yes, the client stores the cookie. But cookies are *usually*
*created* on the *server* and not originally designed to be used in
JavaScript.



-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#39599

Richard Damon wrote:

> On 3/6/21 12:29 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
>>> Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:05:32 AM UTC-6, Groo Vee wrote:
>>>>> ...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like
>>>>> BRAVE and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying
>>>>> that it's about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to
>>>>> them??
>>>>
>>>> What does this have to do with JavaScript?
>>>
>>> If I am not mistaken, cookies have been a way to store information using
>>> JavaScript since JavaScript 1.0.
>> 
>> No, cookies are a way to store information, usually originally created
>> on the *server*. It has nothing to do with JavaScript. JavaScript can
>> just use cookies as well.
> 
> No, the cookie was a client size storage for a key to allow the
> stateless HTTP protocol to remember from one request to another.
> 
> An alternative to using the session cookie, was to add a session ID to
> the URL of links to provide the key.
> 
> Yes, most the information was stored server side, but the cookie
> provided a key to that.

Not quite.

There are actually two aspects of cookies:

  1. Storing information server-side:

     On HTTP request, create a server-side session with a session ID (using,
     and store all information server-side until the session expires.
     The information stored server-side is NOT called “cookie(s)”;
     see e.g. <https://php.net/setcookie> and cf.
     <https://www.php.net/manual/en/intro.session.php>.

  2. Storing information client-side:

     a) For a server-side session, store the session ID in a cookie
        client-side, by sending a HTTP response message containing a
        “Set-Cookie” header field.  On every suitable HTTP request,
        the client includes the session ID in the “Cookie” header field of
        the HTTP request message.

<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Set-Cookie>
<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Cookie>

     b) For a client-side (usually browser) session or for temporary storage
        that survives the end of a client-side session (given by the
        “expires“ value), store all the data in cookies client-side.  The
        client will transfer all relevant cookies to the server as described
        in a), but the data can also be exclusively used client-side.

Cookies can be read and set using the “document.cookie” property, unless 
they had been set with the “httponly” flag set.

<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Document/cookie>

-- 
PointedEars
FAQ: <http://PointedEars.de/faq> | <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix>
<https://github.com/PointedEars> | <http://PointedEars.de/wsvn/>
Twitter: @PointedEars2 | Please do not cc me./Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#39601

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:

[...]
>      b) For a client-side (usually browser) session or for temporary storage
>         that survives the end of a client-side session (given by the
>         “expires“ value), store all the data in cookies client-side.  The
>         client will transfer all relevant cookies to the server as described
>         in a), but the data can also be exclusively used client-side.
> 
> Cookies can be read and set using the “document.cookie” property, unless 
> they had been set with the “httponly” flag set.
> 
> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Document/cookie>

The better way to store information client side only is the web storage:

<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Storage_API>


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#39604

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 09:50:39 +0100, Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de>
wrote:

  <snip>
>The better way to store information client side only is the web storage:
>
><https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Storage_API>

Features don't become off-topic just because there are now better ways
to do something.

  John

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#39605

John G Harris:

> On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 09:50:39 +0100, Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de>
> wrote:
> 
>   <snip>
>> The better way to store information client side only is the web storage:
>>
>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Storage_API>
> 
> Features don't become off-topic just because there are now better ways
> to do something.

"off-topic"? Did I miss anything? Where did I talk about "off-topic"?


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#39607

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 16:34:44 +0100, Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de>
wrote:

>John G Harris:
>
>> On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 09:50:39 +0100, Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>   <snip>
>>> The better way to store information client side only is the web storage:
>>>
>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Storage_API>
>> 
>> Features don't become off-topic just because there are now better ways
>> to do something.
>
>"off-topic"? Did I miss anything? Where did I talk about "off-topic"?

Oh, I do apologise. I thought I was talking to everyone. In future
I'll remember that if I quote you it means I'm talking only to you.

You were the first to mention a better way to do it, so it seemed the
best place to say that we are still allowed to discuss old ways.

Still, you *have* written
> This has nothing to do with JavaScript.
- twice.

  John

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#39584

On Friday, 5 March 2021 at 00:27:35 UTC+5:30, Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
> On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:05:32 AM UTC-6, Groo Vee wrote: 
> > ...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like BRAVE and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying that it's about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to them??
> What does this have to do with JavaScript?

Just saying...all of us work with browsers over here, so....it's not really that it doesn't concern us! (and we SURF too!)

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#39588

On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 10:13:12 PM UTC-6, Groo Vee wrote:
> On Friday, 5 March 2021 at 00:27:35 UTC+5:30, Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote: 
> > On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:05:32 AM UTC-6, Groo Vee wrote: 
> > > ...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like BRAVE and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying that it's about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to them?? 
> > What does this have to do with JavaScript?
> Just saying...all of us work with browsers over here, so....it's not really that it doesn't concern us! (and we SURF too!)

Google is removing THIRD-PARTY cookies. I haven't any evidence that they would remove first-party cookies.

Given that Chrome uses the browser itself to spy on you, it's not like it matters when it comes to privacy. It looks to me simply to be another monopoly move to cut out competitor ad platforms.

Other browsers have already done similar in blocking 3rd party cookies. Brave is the only major browser that is serious about privacy.

Firefox goes through the motions, but is beholden to Google for its paycheck.

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#39592

Groo Vee:

> ...from Chrome, shouldn't the OTHER browsers also follow suit? Like BRAVE and Firefox? (Surely BRAVE should be the first, always saying that it's about privacy?). Is there any way to get word through to them??

This has nothing to do with JavaScript.

And of course Google does *not* remove cookies!

It is about "third party" cookies sent when visiting websites which
includes elements by third party websites. Usually these are ads served
by ad networks which try to set cookies to track users:

<https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/14/21064698/google-third-party-cookies-chrome-two-years-privacy-safari-firefox>

And Google is also not the first one to do so - in fact Safari and
Firefox blocking third party cookies for a while already. Google is just
following this practice with Chrome as well.

-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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