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Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming

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Subject Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming
Date Sat, 6 Feb 2016 21:01:00 +0000
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On 06/02/2016 20:28, Scott Sauyet wrote:

[...]
> In a response to (our own?) Stefan Ram, Alan Kay, who coined the
> term "object-oriented", said, "OOP to me means only messaging, local
> retention and protection and hiding of state-process, and extreme
> late-binding of all things."

"Where polymorphic calls--or any other binding operation--aren't 
resolved until runtime." - http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?LateBinding

Alan Kay is mentioning just polymorphism when he says "late-binding of 
all things", and that's the way it works in languages such as C++, Java, 
and C#.

> It is for these reasons that I find the class-based, high-ceremony OOP
> languages to be substantially less persuasive than ones which manage
> other simpler forms of OOP.

Non sequitur. Like it or not, if someone wants to learn about OOP today, 
they cannot ignore the way OOP is implemented by the major languages 
around. You aren't really suggesting that the OP just sticks to 
JavaScript, are you?

> I believe those ideas have been layered onto a simpler core.  That core
> is to me what OOP is all about.

Again, no it's not. You cannot ignore how object-oriented programming is 
implemented by the major object-oriented languages, today.

> The entire class syntax seems overhead to me[...]

What the hell does *syntax* have to do with that? You will always find a 
language that is more concise than others (Python or Haskell, for 
example). The important thing is how *concepts* are implemented by a 
language, not the syntax used to express them. Java and JavaScript have 
*different* object models, one is class-based, the other 
prototype-based. You may like one more than the other, but you cannot 
certainly say that Java is not good to learn OOP. Java is more tied to 
the classic idea of OOP, where encapsulation, inheritance and 
polymorphism are available *in a very simple way*.

-- 
4ndre4
"The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be 
regarded as a criminal offense." (E. Dijkstra)
"Ora, questo "Delta11" non è nulla di più di uno scemo del villaggio" - 
http://goo.gl/1nrkkX

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Thread

Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming bit-naughty@hotmail.com - 2016-02-05 06:55 -0800
  Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming 4ndre4 <4ndre4@4ndre4.com.invalid> - 2016-02-05 18:56 +0000
  Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Tim Slattery <tim@risingdove.com> - 2016-02-05 14:07 -0500
  Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Aleksandro <aleksandro@gmx.com> - 2016-02-05 17:34 -0300
    Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 19:10 -0800
      Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming 4ndre4 <4ndre4@4ndre4.com.invalid> - 2016-02-06 08:33 +0000
        Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 08:24 -0800
          Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming 4ndre4 <4ndre4@4ndre4.com.invalid> - 2016-02-06 18:48 +0000
            Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 12:28 -0800
              Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming 4ndre4 <4ndre4@4ndre4.com.invalid> - 2016-02-06 21:01 +0000
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 15:23 -0800
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Aleksandro <aleksandro@gmx.com> - 2016-02-08 11:45 -0300
            Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-02-08 13:39 -0800
              Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 08:09 -0800
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-02-11 12:22 -0800
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-02-12 11:09 +0000
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-02-12 13:34 -0800
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-02-13 14:40 +0000
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-02-14 10:18 -0800
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-14 21:27 +0100
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-14 10:13 -0400
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2016-05-14 16:47 +0100
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 07:05 -0400
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-05-14 10:08 -0700
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-15 07:02 -0400
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-05-15 13:11 -0700
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-05-15 17:03 +0100
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-05-15 13:20 -0700
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-16 11:55 -0700
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-05-16 21:39 +0200
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-05-17 07:30 -0700
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-05-17 15:34 +0100
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 17:50 -0800
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-02-14 11:15 +0000
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-02-14 11:03 -0800
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-02-15 20:18 +0000
                Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Scott Sauyet <scott.sauyet@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 16:54 -0800
  Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Danny <dann90038@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 15:00 -0800
  Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming RobG <rgqld@iinet.net.au> - 2016-02-06 17:18 +1000
    Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-06 16:01 +0100
    Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming bit-naughty@hotmail.com - 2016-02-07 04:47 -0800
      Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2016-02-07 13:16 +0000
      Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-02-07 17:29 +0000
        Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming bit-naughty@hotmail.com - 2016-02-08 08:53 -0800
          Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2016-02-08 17:33 +0000
  Re: Newbie trying to understand object oriented programming Joao Rodrigues <jr@none.com> - 2016-02-06 11:56 -0200

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