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Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy??

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On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 6:42:49 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
> 
> > On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 6:48:40 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
> > wrote:
> >> Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
> >> > No. By "sufficient" I mean expressive enough to represent and enforce
> >> > the semantic meaning of what the notation represents. Example:
> >> > 
> >> > var imgBird;
> >> > 
> >> > vs.
> >> > 
> >> > var bird: Image;
> >> 
> >> But that is merely your *opinion*.  Apparently more people think that the
> >> current ECMAScript type system is sufficient than not, either because
> >> they do not care; because they are using ECMAScript implementations like
> >> Dart, TypeScript, and Flow that have static type-checking natively; or
> >> because they use precompilers or some other way to enforce types.
> > 
> > It is less of an opinion than you think.
> 
> It is more of an opinion than *you* think.
> 
> > You've even admitted so without
> > realizing it:
> > 
> > 1. You can't make a claim about sufficiency either way if you don't care
> > about using a proper level of abstraction. I could name every variable
> > with a single letter and get by. For example, look at Mentifakes code.
> > This is a non-argument.
> 
> Fallacy: Slippery slope.

Missapplied categorization.

You've defined "sufficient" as a function of not caring or as a property of some alternative language. This is not even wrong [1]

> > 2. If you're using a superset or an alternative language for your medium
> > of expression then you've admitted an insufficiency.
> 
> Fallacy: Affirming the antecedent.

Modus Ponens is an inference rule, not a fallacy. You stated the proposition, I stated the implication.

> > Either your language can represent and enforce your domain or discourse,
> > or it can't.
> 
> Fallacy: False dilemma.

You can't be half pregnant nor half stupid. If you think this is not a binary choice, present another.
 
> > Also, since when is Dart an ECMAScript implementation?
> 
> Apparently it is not, and the author of the cited article has confused the 
> fact that it is also an Ecma standard with the idea that it were also an 
> ECMAScript implementation.
> 
> <https://dart.dev/guides/language/specifications/DartLangSpec-v2.2.pdf>

...and you did not do your due diligence before using it as reference. 
Given your anal-retentiveness on the topic and how much you attack other group members over it, I hope this becomes a learning moment.

 
> > Type conversion and dynamic checking is irrelevant.
> 
> No, it is not.  First of all, I said “*implicit* type conversion”; and 
> second, in many cases these two features *are* sufficient to implement
> an algorithm.

This is still irrelevant to the topic of Hungarian Notation. 
An algorithm has nothing to do with it, and a type system is also directly irrelevant to that.

> > You have information encoded inside of a variable name.
> 
> In a well-written program you have *always* information “encoded [_in_] […] 
> a variable [_identifier_]”.  That is the *purpose* of a variable identifier.

Bonus points for misunderstanding Hungarian Notation and the point I made.

Yes, variable names have semantic meaning to the programmer. 
Hungarian Notation extends this with extra-linguistic typing information such as 'intAge'.

This is a problem because the developer is now playing the role of type checker instead of the language.
How do I know that 'Age' is an 'int'? Because I said so, or because the language said so?
Does that mean the developer is wrong to do so? Only if there are lingustic mechanisms available to fulfill this role.

> And Hungarian notation was *your* idea as the *only* alternative to static 
> type-checking.  It is not.

Quote me where I said this. This is FUD.

> > This is the same smell as using Stringly Typed programming: The meaning of
> > the program is not part of the program.
> 
> That is another fallacy.  This time I leave it to you to find out the type.

It's called "Lahn's false assumption"

> >> > JavaScript still lacks any meaningful syntactic means of such
> >> > representation. There not even anything significant on the road map[1].
> >> That depends on what you consider “JavaScript” to be, but it is mostly
> >> true.
> > 
> > I'm referring to "JavaScript" primarily as ES3 -> ES2019 and the common
> > implementations thereof without extensions.
> 
> That is much too broad a statement, then.

I could have made it broader and still be accurate. Though I still wouldn't have included Dart in my list...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

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Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-07-20 12:53 -0700
  Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2019-07-21 15:15 +1000
  Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-07-22 03:07 -0700
  Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? Martin Honnen <martin.honnen@gmx.de> - 2019-07-22 16:20 +0200
    Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-07-30 08:20 -0700
  Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-07-30 18:24 -0700
    Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-07-31 04:14 -0700
      Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-07-31 05:32 -0700
        Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2019-07-31 18:22 +0200
          Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-08-02 02:37 -0700
            Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2019-08-02 13:38 +0200
              Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-08-02 05:59 -0700
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2019-08-02 17:55 +0200
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-08-02 15:57 -0700
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-08-03 06:11 -0700
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-08-04 11:44 +0200
              Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-08-02 15:10 -0700
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2019-08-03 08:59 +0200
                OT: Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-08-03 05:18 -0700
                Re: OT: Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2019-08-03 15:27 +0200
                Re: OT: Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-08-03 09:28 -0700
                Re: OT: Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2019-08-04 12:32 +0200
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-08-04 11:30 +0200
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-08-04 15:31 -0700
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-08-05 13:48 +0200
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-08-05 16:51 -0700
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-08-07 01:42 +0200
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-08-07 01:47 -0700
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-08-08 20:56 +0200
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-08-08 13:16 -0700
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> - 2019-08-08 23:57 -0600
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-08-09 12:48 +0200
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-08-05 06:37 -0700
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2019-08-05 18:46 +0100
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-08-06 03:39 -0700
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-08-05 17:30 -0700
            Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-08-02 15:05 -0700
      Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-07-31 18:58 -0700
        Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-08-02 05:01 -0700
          Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-08-02 16:07 -0700
            Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-08-03 08:19 -0700
              Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2019-08-03 18:42 -0700
                Re: Firefox changed IFRAME behaviour - I need a remedy?? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-08-04 11:27 +0200

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