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Re: Surprise!

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  Re: Surprise! Jeff Higgins <invalid@invalid.org> - 2020-04-26 05:06 -0400
    Re: Surprise! Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2020-04-26 13:00 +0000
      Re: Surprise! Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2020-04-27 09:13 +0200
        Re: Surprise! Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2020-04-27 12:12 +0000
          Re: Surprise! Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2020-04-27 08:34 -0400
            Re: Surprise! Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2020-04-27 13:52 +0000
              Re: Surprise! Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2020-04-27 10:04 -0400
            Re: Surprise! Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2020-04-27 10:09 -0400
          Re: Surprise! Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2020-04-27 06:36 -0700
            Re: Surprise! Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2020-04-27 09:46 -0400

#39454 — Re: Surprise!

On 9/19/19 3:28 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>    Write this:
> 
> public final class A
> { public static void main( final java.lang.String[] args )
>    { B.hello(); }}
> 
> public final class B
> { public static void hello()
>    { java.lang.System.out.println( "Hello!" ); }}
> 
>    and save it as "Main.java". Then call:
> 
> java Main.java
> 
>    with a recent JDK. What you have there is a file named
>    "Main.java" that does /not/ contain a class "Main", and
>    it has /two/ public classes. Yet, the above command will
>    happily print,
> 
> Hello!
> 
>    .
> 
> 

https://docs.oracle.com/en/java/javase/14/docs/specs/man/java.html#using-source-file-mode-to-launch-single-file-source-code-programs

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#39457

On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 05:06:48 -0400, Jeff Higgins wrote:

> On 9/19/19 3:28 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>    Write this:
>> 
>> public final class A { public static void main( final
>> java.lang.String[] args )
>>    { B.hello(); }}
>> 
>> public final class B { public static void hello()
>>    { java.lang.System.out.println( "Hello!" ); }}
>> 
>>    and save it as "Main.java". Then call:
>> 
>> java Main.java
>> 
>>    with a recent JDK. What you have there is a file named "Main.java"
>>    that does /not/ contain a class "Main", and it has /two/ public
>>    classes. Yet, the above command will happily print,
>>
Not here. I rearranged your source because I prefer opening and closing 
brackets to align. Here's the result: 

$ cat Main.java
public final class A
{
   public static void main( final java.lang.String[] args )
   {
      B.hello();
   }
}

public final class B
{
   public static void hello()
   {
      java.lang.System.out.println( "Hello!" );
   }
}

$ javac -version
javac 1.8.0_242

$ javac Main.java
Main.java:1: error: class A is public, should be declared in a file named 
A.java
public final class A
             ^
Main.java:9: error: class B is public, should be declared in a file named 
B.java
public final class B
             ^
2 errors

This is using Open Java 1.8 installed from the RedHat Fedora 31 package 
repository and is exactly what I'd expect to see, since the name of a non-
nested class declaration should match the sourcefile name.
  

 -- 
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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#39458

On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 13:00:20 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 05:06:48 -0400, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> On 9/19/19 3:28 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>> [...] with a recent JDK. [...]

> This is using Open Java 1.8 [...]

Calling 1.8 "recent" is quite a stretch ;)

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

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#39459

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:13:59 +0200, Joerg Meier wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 13:00:20 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 05:06:48 -0400, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>> On 9/19/19 3:28 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>> [...] with a recent JDK. [...]
> 
>> This is using Open Java 1.8 [...]
> 
> Calling 1.8 "recent" is quite a stretch ;)
>
True enough, but AFAIK its still supported, alongside 11 and 14, for 
Fedora Linux. I recently saw stats (in The Register) showing the majority 
of developers are still using 8, and #242 is the most recent Java 8 
release.

If its just as easy to move from Java 8 to 11 or 14 as it still is to 
compile a K&R source file under that latest ANSI C compiler, then I'm 
happy to move on, but is it that easy? Somehow I've gotten the impression 
that it may not be.


-- 
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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#39460

On 4/27/2020 8:12 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:13:59 +0200, Joerg Meier wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 13:00:20 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 05:06:48 -0400, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/19 3:28 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>>> [...] with a recent JDK. [...]
>>
>>> This is using Open Java 1.8 [...]
>>
>> Calling 1.8 "recent" is quite a stretch ;)
>>
> True enough, but AFAIK its still supported, alongside 11 and 14, for
> Fedora Linux.

Yes. AdoptOpenJDK will supply updates until May 2026.

https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html

>        I recently saw stats (in The Register) showing the majority
> of developers are still using 8,

Yes. But a lot of them are in the process of upgrading to 11 now.

> If its just as easy to move from Java 8 to 11 or 14 as it still is to
> compile a K&R source file under that latest ANSI C compiler, then I'm
> happy to move on, but is it that easy? Somehow I've gotten the impression
> that it may not be.

Java upgrades are usually pretty easy.

But some can cause a bit of work.

1.4 -> 1.5 was one of them.

8 -> 11 is one of them.

Things to be aware of include:
* if you use unsupported SUN classes then you may need ti
   circumvent the module system introduced in Java 9 to
   get your stuff to build and run
* if you use JAX-WS or JAXB then that is now a
   separate download - it is no longer builtin
   Java SE
* if you use JavaFX then that is now a
   separate download - it is no longer builtin
   Java SE
* if you use CORBA then you need to find
   another implementation

But if you get JAX-WS and JAXB then my guess is that 99.8% of all
Java 8 code will work with 11.

Arne

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#39463

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:34:35 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> On 4/27/2020 8:12 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:13:59 +0200, Joerg Meier wrote:
>>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 13:00:20 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 05:06:48 -0400, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>>>> On 9/19/19 3:28 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>>>> [...] with a recent JDK. [...]
>>>
>>>> This is using Open Java 1.8 [...]
>>>
>>> Calling 1.8 "recent" is quite a stretch ;)
>>>
>> True enough, but AFAIK its still supported, alongside 11 and 14, for
>> Fedora Linux.
> 
> Yes. AdoptOpenJDK will supply updates until May 2026.
> 
> https://adoptopenjdk.net/support.html
> 
>>        I recently saw stats (in The Register) showing the majority
>> of developers are still using 8,
> 
> Yes. But a lot of them are in the process of upgrading to 11 now.
> 
>> If its just as easy to move from Java 8 to 11 or 14 as it still is to
>> compile a K&R source file under that latest ANSI C compiler, then I'm
>> happy to move on, but is it that easy? Somehow I've gotten the
>> impression that it may not be.
> 
> Java upgrades are usually pretty easy.
> 
> But some can cause a bit of work.
> 
> 1.4 -> 1.5 was one of them.
> 
> 8 -> 11 is one of them.
> 
> Things to be aware of include:
> * if you use unsupported SUN classes then you may need ti
>    circumvent the module system introduced in Java 9 to get your stuff
>    to build and run
> * if you use JAX-WS or JAXB then that is now a
>    separate download - it is no longer builtin Java SE
> * if you use JavaFX then that is now a
>    separate download - it is no longer builtin Java SE
> * if you use CORBA then you need to find
>    another implementation
> 
> But if you get JAX-WS and JAXB then my guess is that 99.8% of all Java 8
> code will work with 11.
> 
Thanks, Arne.

I don't use any of the gotchas you mention - nothing, really, outside the 
what was in the 1.6 standard library, apart from some 3rd party stuff:

- the Coco/R syntax generator 
- RiverLayout, 
- a geodesy package,
- dnsjava,
- mail stuff (jaf ?, javamail, mstor)
- jcharset
- jdbc for PostgreSQL

so it looks as though the move should be straight forward.


-- 
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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#39464

On 4/27/2020 9:52 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:34:35 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 4/27/2020 8:12 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> If its just as easy to move from Java 8 to 11 or 14 as it still is to
>>> compile a K&R source file under that latest ANSI C compiler, then I'm
>>> happy to move on, but is it that easy? Somehow I've gotten the
>>> impression that it may not be.
>>
>> Java upgrades are usually pretty easy.
>>
>> But some can cause a bit of work.
>>
>> 1.4 -> 1.5 was one of them.
>>
>> 8 -> 11 is one of them.
>>
>> Things to be aware of include:
>> * if you use unsupported SUN classes then you may need ti
>>     circumvent the module system introduced in Java 9 to get your stuff
>>     to build and run
>> * if you use JAX-WS or JAXB then that is now a
>>     separate download - it is no longer builtin Java SE
>> * if you use JavaFX then that is now a
>>     separate download - it is no longer builtin Java SE
>> * if you use CORBA then you need to find
>>     another implementation
>>
>> But if you get JAX-WS and JAXB then my guess is that 99.8% of all Java 8
>> code will work with 11.
> 
> I don't use any of the gotchas you mention - nothing, really, outside the
> what was in the 1.6 standard library, apart from some 3rd party stuff:
> 
> - the Coco/R syntax generator
> - RiverLayout,
> - a geodesy package,
> - dnsjava,
> - mail stuff (jaf ?, javamail, mstor)
> - jcharset
> - jdbc for PostgreSQL
> 
> so it looks as though the move should be straight forward.

Give it a try.

:-)

Arne

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#39465

On 4/27/2020 8:34 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> 8 -> 11 is one of them.
> 
> Things to be aware of include:
> * if you use unsupported SUN classes then you may need ti
>    circumvent the module system introduced in Java 9 to
>    get your stuff to build and run
> * if you use JAX-WS or JAXB then that is now a
>    separate download - it is no longer builtin
>    Java SE
> * if you use JavaFX then that is now a
>    separate download - it is no longer builtin
>    Java SE
> * if you use CORBA then you need to find
>    another implementation
> 
> But if you get JAX-WS and JAXB then my guess is that 99.8% of all
> Java 8 code will work with 11.

They did try to avoid breaking things.

This code actually works:

public class NewStuff {
	public static void main(String[] args) {
		int var = 123;
		var i = 456;
		System.out.println(var + i);
	}
}


Arne

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#39461

On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 8:13:04 AM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > Calling 1.8 "recent" is quite a stretch ;)
> >
> True enough, but AFAIK its still supported, alongside 11 and 14, for 
> Fedora Linux. I recently saw stats (in The Register) showing the majority 
> of developers are still using 8, and #242 is the most recent Java 8 
> release.
> 
> If its just as easy to move from Java 8 to 11 or 14 as it still is to 
> compile a K&R source file under that latest ANSI C compiler, then I'm 
> happy to move on, but is it that easy? Somehow I've gotten the impression 
> that it may not be.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Martin    | martin at
> Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

I'm using 8 right now.  It is easy enough to move from 8 to 11 (when is the next LTS?) but getting government approval?

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#39462

On 4/27/2020 9:36 AM, Eric Douglas wrote:
> On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 8:13:04 AM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> Calling 1.8 "recent" is quite a stretch ;)
>>>
>> True enough, but AFAIK its still supported, alongside 11 and 14, for
>> Fedora Linux. I recently saw stats (in The Register) showing the majority
>> of developers are still using 8, and #242 is the most recent Java 8
>> release.
>>
>> If its just as easy to move from Java 8 to 11 or 14 as it still is to
>> compile a K&R source file under that latest ANSI C compiler, then I'm
>> happy to move on, but is it that easy? Somehow I've gotten the impression
>> that it may not be.
> 
> I'm using 8 right now.  It is easy enough to move from 8 to 11 (when is the next LTS?) but getting government approval?

It has changed a bit, but right now my understanding is that
17 (September 2021) will be next LTS.

Arne

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