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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #38117 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Chris Riesbeck <Chris.Riesbeck@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-03-08 13:10 -0600 |
| Last post | 2018-03-12 20:17 -0400 |
| Articles | 9 on this page of 69 — 11 participants |
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JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Chris Riesbeck <Chris.Riesbeck@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 13:10 -0600
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-08 14:15 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-09 08:30 +0800
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-08 19:37 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-09 11:09 +0800
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-09 05:19 -0800
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2018-03-10 00:02 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-09 19:28 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2018-03-10 03:12 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-09 21:28 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-10 21:41 +0800
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-10 21:09 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-11 10:46 +0800
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-10 22:39 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-09 19:23 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Ricardo Palomares Martinez <rpm.NOADS@proyectonave.es> - 2018-03-10 19:20 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-11 10:49 +0800
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-03-12 15:36 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 11:49 -0800
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-08 15:00 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-08 12:32 -0800
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-08 16:51 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte.net> - 2018-03-09 00:57 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-08 19:20 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-08 19:23 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-08 19:28 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2018-03-09 08:44 +0000
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2018-03-10 00:03 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-09 19:20 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2018-03-10 03:07 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-09 21:32 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte.net> - 2018-03-10 09:50 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2018-03-10 16:39 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-10 21:06 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-12 06:50 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-12 23:41 +0800
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-12 09:10 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-13 07:33 +0800
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-12 20:15 -0400
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 05:46 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-13 09:55 -0400
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 06:42 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-13 09:50 -0400
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 06:57 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-13 10:08 -0400
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 07:58 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-15 12:23 -0400
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2018-03-13 02:28 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2018-03-13 11:39 +0000
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-13 07:54 -0400
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2018-03-13 12:45 +0000
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 05:42 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte.net> - 2018-03-13 23:27 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-14 08:35 +0800
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 05:03 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 05:08 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte.net> - 2018-03-15 11:50 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 05:47 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2018-03-15 12:28 +0000
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 12:08 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte.net> - 2018-03-13 00:58 +0100
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-12 20:02 -0400
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-10 21:03 -0500
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-03-12 05:45 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-12 20:07 -0400
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Uniqua Lykerd <uniqualykerd@protonmail.com> - 2018-03-29 21:22 -0400
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte.net> - 2018-03-30 04:37 +0200
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Gianluca Bonetti <gianluca.bonetti@gmail.com> - 2018-03-11 09:59 -0700
Re: JavaFX disappearing in Java 11 Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-03-12 20:17 -0400
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| From | Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-03-13 00:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <p8747j$qq3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #38146 |
On 2018-03-11 03:06, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > On 3/10/2018 10:39 AM, Silvio wrote: >> I agree with a lot of what you say. It is not all black and white. But >> the advantage for web based clients I see is not from the perspective >> of a developer. Distribution and installation of apps is a major pain. >> Release cycles become shorter and shorter and upgrading installed >> software is an even bigger pain. I have apps on my phone that are >> upgraded more often than I use them. I don't think you can directly compare the situations on the mobile and on the desktop, respectively. Given how limited access the user has to them, for practical intents and purposes, mobiles are more akin to thin clients. And sure, for those, webapps certainly make a lot of sense (the brower then essentially being a virtualization client). >> This all goes away with web >> applications. Zero install/upgrade and a more consistent client >> experience are user advantages. Let's not even start about DLL hell, >> registry creep, viruses etc. > > Deployment is a big advantage of web application and a major reason > why they are so popular. > > A problem that has been attempted solved for fat client applications > via "app stores" and sand-boxing models. With success for phones and > tablets. Without success for desktop computers. Have you guys ever heard of Steam (tm)? -- DF.
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-03-12 20:02 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <p874f4$sol$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #38159 |
On 3/12/2018 7:58 PM, Daniele Futtorovic wrote: > On 2018-03-11 03:06, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 3/10/2018 10:39 AM, Silvio wrote: >>> This all goes away with web >>> applications. Zero install/upgrade and a more consistent client >>> experience are user advantages. Let's not even start about DLL hell, >>> registry creep, viruses etc. >> >> Deployment is a big advantage of web application and a major reason >> why they are so popular. >> >> A problem that has been attempted solved for fat client applications >> via "app stores" and sand-boxing models. With success for phones and >> tablets. Without success for desktop computers. > > Have you guys ever heard of Steam (tm)? True - that is a success. But certainly a very specific market. Arne
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-03-10 21:03 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <p822pp$ndo$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #38141 |
On 3/10/2018 3:50 AM, Daniele Futtorovic wrote: > You mention elsewhere in the thread that M$ is moving away from desktop > apps. Well, yeah, they've moved away from making apps _themselves_. Good > thing too; M$ is an OS manufacturer. They've only ever made apps in > order to sell their OS -- whether they realised it or not. At the same > time, as part of making their OS, they've invested lots of efforts into > enabling /others/ to make desktop apps for their desktop OS. And they've > been very successful at it: creating desktop apps for Windoze was and is > easy and accessible to everyone. That's more than can be said of Apple, > for instance. MS is still doing desktop applications. And selling for billions of dollars. > Lastly, I believe there's some extent of professional bias at play here. > As Java devs, we might be led to believe that all app development is on > the 'net, because that's the jobs we get offered. I wonder whether for > instance a Python dev might have a radically different take on the matter. I think Python would be the about the same as Java. Django, Plone, Zope etc.. Arne
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| From | Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-03-12 05:45 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4800f6bd-4e65-41b9-b034-675f6687179d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #38145 |
On Saturday, March 10, 2018 at 9:03:56 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > MS is still doing desktop applications. And selling for billions of dollars. > I don't know how many desktop applications MS makes these days. I know there's Office 365 which I picture as a web app but does have the option to install as a desktop app, I normally just use Google Docs. I know they use the Windows Store, as Halo Wars is a Windows Store install. I don't know what language they're in but MS has a few games they develop for desktop as well as their xbox.
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-03-12 20:07 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <p874no$tc5$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #38153 |
On 3/12/2018 8:45 AM, Eric Douglas wrote: > On Saturday, March 10, 2018 at 9:03:56 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> MS is still doing desktop applications. And selling for billions of dollars. > > I don't know how many desktop applications MS makes these days. I > know there's Office 365 which I picture as a web app but does have > the option to install as a desktop app, I normally just use Google > Docs. MS Office is still very much alive. Latest version is 2016. Both Windows and Mac. Arne
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| From | Uniqua Lykerd <uniqualykerd@protonmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-03-29 21:22 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <p9k3gq$18pl$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #38123 |
Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte.net> Wrote in message: > On 2018-03-08 22:51, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 3/8/2018 3:32 PM, Eric Douglas wrote: >>> Do end users need 2 separate installs? >> >> For development: yes. For running: not clear to me. > > I can't imagine they would possibly require an additional install for a > user to run JavaFX apps. Especially not when having to install the JRE > is already a hurdle (to Java-on-the-desktop at least) in many places. > > Note that they're talking about the JDK in that article, not the JRE. > End users don't (need to) install the JDK. > > -- > DF. > I'm building GUI apps based on JavaFX (and have been considering Codename One as a replacement). Installation is rather straightforward with Java 8, if you pack your own classes plus JRE into a single executable. Decoupling JavaFX is no different than adding other 3rd-party libraries. -- ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
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| From | Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-03-30 04:37 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <p9k7u9$rdm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #38214 |
On 2018-03-30 03:22, Uniqua Lykerd wrote: > Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte.net> Wrote in message: >> On 2018-03-08 22:51, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> On 3/8/2018 3:32 PM, Eric Douglas wrote: >>>> Do end users need 2 separate installs? >>> >>> For development: yes. For running: not clear to me. >> >> I can't imagine they would possibly require an additional install for a >> user to run JavaFX apps. Especially not when having to install the JRE >> is already a hurdle (to Java-on-the-desktop at least) in many places. >> >> Note that they're talking about the JDK in that article, not the JRE. >> End users don't (need to) install the JDK. >> > > I'm building GUI apps based on JavaFX (and have been considering > Codename One as a replacement). > > Installation is rather straightforward with Java 8, if you pack > your own classes plus JRE into a single executable. Decoupling > JavaFX is no different than adding other 3rd-party > libraries. You gonna bundle the whole JRE into your installer? Pulling in platform-specific things? Will you have to distribute an update on every JRE update? And, how many floppies in that going to require!? Perhaps you mean just pulling in a potentially-decoupled JavaFX part of the JRE? But which will still have platform-specific stuff? And still require you to publish updates to your app in order to leverage improvements in the framework? That does not sound like a Good Thing to me. And very contrary to the whole idea of a JVM. -- DF.
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| From | Gianluca Bonetti <gianluca.bonetti@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-03-11 09:59 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <5693ba0c-1be2-4f0a-a8f4-6a33e4b2be7a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #38117 |
Il giorno giovedì 8 marzo 2018 20:10:57 UTC+1, Chris Riesbeck ha scritto: > https://www.infoworld.com/article/3261066/java/javafx-will-be-removed-from-the-java-jdk.html > > While I won't miss JavaFX per se, just this morning I changed some code > to use java.util.javafx.Pair. > > I can still use java.util.AbstractMap.SimpleImmutableEntry, or roll my > own, but, jeepers, my timing was off. > > And yes, I've read this great thread on whether a Pair is good idea: > > http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/core-libs-dev/2010-March/thread.html#3973 Hi There is still OpenJFX https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/OpenJFX/Main Bye gl
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-03-12 20:17 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <p875ai$u2d$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #38151 |
On 3/11/2018 12:59 PM, Gianluca Bonetti wrote: > Il giorno giovedì 8 marzo 2018 20:10:57 UTC+1, Chris Riesbeck ha scritto: >> https://www.infoworld.com/article/3261066/java/javafx-will-be-removed-from-the-java-jdk.html >> >> While I won't miss JavaFX per se, just this morning I changed some code >> to use java.util.javafx.Pair. >> >> I can still use java.util.AbstractMap.SimpleImmutableEntry, or roll my >> own, but, jeepers, my timing was off. >> >> And yes, I've read this great thread on whether a Pair is good idea: >> >> http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/core-libs-dev/2010-March/thread.html#3973 > > There is still OpenJFX > https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/OpenJFX/Main From the announcement: <quote> Oracle fully open sourced JavaFX through “OpenJFX” in 2011, and continues to contribute to its open-source development. ... Consequently: * Oracle will continue to support JavaFX new fixes for Java SE 8 until 2022. * Having open sourced JavaFX and related tools, Oracle is working with interested third parties to make it easier to build and maintain JavaFX as a separately distributable open-source module. <quote> Arne
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