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What Application Server are you using?

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  What Application Server are you using? Robert Hutchings <rm.hutchings@gmail.com> - 2014-03-10 10:26 -0700
    Re: What Application Server are you using? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2014-03-10 18:35 +0100
      Re: What Application Server are you using? Robert Hutchings <rm.hutchings@gmail.com> - 2014-03-10 10:53 -0700
    Re: What Application Server are you using? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-03-10 18:16 -0400
      Re: What Application Server are you using? "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 21:24 +1100
        Re: What Application Server are you using? Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-03-11 12:12 +0100
    Re: What Application Server are you using? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-03-11 14:00 +0000
      Re: What Application Server are you using? Robert Hutchings <rm.hutchings@gmail.com> - 2014-03-11 08:54 -0700
        Re: What Application Server are you using? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-03-11 17:00 +0000
        Re: What Application Server are you using? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2014-03-11 23:31 +0100
          Re: What Application Server are you using? Robert Hutchings <rm.hutchings@gmail.com> - 2014-03-13 09:24 -0700
            Re: What Application Server are you using? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-03-13 12:45 -0400
              Re: What Application Server are you using? Robert Hutchings <rm.hutchings@gmail.com> - 2014-03-13 10:48 -0700
            Re: What Application Server are you using? markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2014-03-13 10:24 -0700
              Re: What Application Server are you using? Robert Hutchings <rm.hutchings@gmail.com> - 2014-03-13 10:47 -0700
            Re: What Application Server are you using? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-03-16 13:42 -0300

#27713 — What Application Server are you using?

Hi All,

This is my first post, so excuse me if I don't get everything exactly right :)


With the last iteration of Oracle Glassfish in 2014, will JBoss or Jetty pick up that space?  Is WebLogic Oracle's "go to" App Server now?

What are you using?

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#27715

On 10.03.2014 18:26, Robert Hutchings wrote:

> With the last iteration of Oracle Glassfish in 2014, will JBoss or
> Jetty pick up that space?  Is WebLogic Oracle's "go to" App Server
> now?

There was recently a survey done which also covered application containers.

http://www.infoworld.com/t/java-programming/survey-developers-eager-java-8-237462

Kind regards

	robert

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#27716

Thanks Robert!

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#27718

On 3/10/2014 1:26 PM, Robert Hutchings wrote:
> This is my first post, so excuse me if I don't get everything exactly right :)
>
> With the last iteration of Oracle Glassfish in 2014, will JBoss or Jetty pick up that space?  Is WebLogic Oracle's "go to" App Server now?
>
> What are you using?

The 3 big ones for full Java EE are WebSphere, WebLogic and JBoss.

Unless you work for a loyal IBM or BEA/Oracle house, then I suggest you
go for JBoss.

If you only need web Java EE then just go for Tomcat.

Arne

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#27720

"Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message 
news:531e39aa$0$306$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

> The 3 big ones for full Java EE are WebSphere, WebLogic and JBoss.
>
> Unless you work for a loyal IBM or BEA/Oracle house, then I suggest you
> go for JBoss.
>
> If you only need web Java EE then just go for Tomcat.

Arne's advice here is spot-on and it is surprising how many places adopt one 
of the full application servers when Tomcat is really all they need.

BTW Glassfish is not technically "dead".  What happened was that Oracle will 
no longer offer commercial support.

However, Glassfish is open source so *potentially* it could survive and may 
even have another commercial entity take over support.

It is after all a very good product.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] 

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#27721

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 21:24:54 +1100, Qu0ll wrote:

> "Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message 
> news:531e39aa$0$306$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>> The 3 big ones for full Java EE are WebSphere, WebLogic and JBoss.

>> Unless you work for a loyal IBM or BEA/Oracle house, then I suggest you
>> go for JBoss.

>> If you only need web Java EE then just go for Tomcat.
> Arne's advice here is spot-on and it is surprising how many places adopt one 
> of the full application servers when Tomcat is really all they need.

Even if you don't need the full stack right now, it's nice to know that
it's already there, and that adding anything from it is not a lengthy
process of fiddling around.

> BTW Glassfish is not technically "dead".  What happened was that Oracle will 
> no longer offer commercial support.

> However, Glassfish is open source so *potentially* it could survive and may 
> even have another commercial entity take over support.

Personally, I'd be too worried that the abandonment of the commercial
support will send a message that will drive away large parts of the user
base and crush any hopes for the future on potential open source
supporters. I suspect that Glassfish might die purely due to psychological
fallout from Oracles move.

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

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#27722

On 10/03/14 17:26, Robert Hutchings wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> This is my first post, so excuse me if I don't get everything exactly right :)
>
>
> With the last iteration of Oracle Glassfish in 2014, will JBoss or Jetty pick up that space?  Is WebLogic Oracle's "go to" App Server now?
>
> What are you using?

Over the past few years I have developed for and deployed to:

Sun One application stack
Allaire (now Adobe I believe) JRun
Weblogic
Websphere

I don't know if some of these are even still being actively developed.

Weblogic would be my preferred choice but frankly, unless you are
doing some seriously heavy lifting I've found the latest versions of 
Tomcat running on a reasonable spec machine more than adequate for up to 
1000 concurrent sessions.

My server hosting Co keeps trying to sell me 'cloud' services which 
apparently give me failover, load balancing, scalability and other stuff 
that I might have used an app server for in the past.

Tomcat's container managed security is adequate for most applications 
that I encounter day to day, container managed data sources provide a 
measure of scalability even on a single instance and there is even a 
transaction manager I believe although I manage my transactions in the 
Facades.

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer,
treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

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#27725

Please forgive my ignorance, but I thought Apache Tomcat was specifically designed as a "servlet engine" for JSP.  Is that correct or incorrect?  :)

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#27728

On 11/03/14 15:54, Robert Hutchings wrote:
> Please forgive my ignorance, but I thought Apache Tomcat was specifically designed as a "servlet engine" for JSP.  Is that correct or incorrect?  :)
>

Java Server Pages compile to Servlets, I suppose it's really correct to 
describe Tomcat as a 'Servlet Engine', or 'Servlet Container' but it's 
more than that, it's a pukka web server as well. When I started to use 
Tomcat it was mostly used as a Servlet Engine behind an Apache httpd 
front end ... and many people still use it that way. However over the 
years the performance has improved so much that personally I can do 
without the overhead of configuring Apache and focus instead on 
configuring Tomcat. My Tomcat servers listen on port 80 just like Apache 
httpd and serve static content as well as dynamic. I have the container 
managed data sources configured and access them via a JNDI lookup just 
like the heavyweight servers. The kind of things I can't do OOTB are 
host entity/stateful/stateless session beans or host remote interfaces 
via RMI-IIOP. There is no built in messaging or support for distributed 
transactions(last time I looked), however given that most of these 
things were designed to provide scalability and given that memory is now 
so cheap and server performance is now so good I see little point in the 
added complexity of an application server. Servlets and jsps are all 
part of J2EE or whatever it's called now so I suppose you *could* call 
Tomcat a lightweight app server.

I mostly do smaller business applications now, a few hundred visitors a 
day no more than 1000 concurrent sessions but otherwise a full blown 
database backed business application and I have never had any problems 
with performance. I guess it depends on what you intend to do and how 
you see the application scaling in the future.

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer,
treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

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#27734

On 03/11/2014 04:54 PM, Robert Hutchings wrote:
> Please forgive my ignorance, but I thought Apache Tomcat was
> specifically designed as a "servlet engine" for JSP.  Is that correct
> or incorrect?  :)

Servlets are older than JSP.  IIRC Tomcat started out as the reference 
implementation of the Servlet standard but soon matured into a full web 
server including servlet container and later JSP container.  It's not a 
JEE application server but it contains a number of those features.  Fun 
fact: JBoss (which is called Wildfly now if I'm not mistaken) used to 
contain a fork of Tomcat code for the web container.  Not sure about the 
current implementation - either it has evolved away from original Tomcat 
code or they did a rewrite at some point in time.

Kind regards

	robert

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#27750

Hi Robert,

When we talk about "application servers" or "containers", what exactly does this mean?  These are, in themselves, applications, correct?  They are an application that enables other applications.  So, for example, Tomcat runs as an application or UNIX process(es) and a Java servlet executes in the context of the Tomcat instance...is that correct? 

I'm coming from a "mid-range background," Tandem NonStop and Windows .NET via VB or C#.

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#27751

On 3/13/2014 12:24 PM, Robert Hutchings wrote:
> When we talk about "application servers" or "containers", what
> exactly does this mean?  These are, in themselves, applications,
> correct?  They are an application that enables other applications.
> So, for example, Tomcat runs as an application or UNIX process(es)
> and a Java servlet executes in the context of the Tomcat
> instance...is that correct?

Consider it a software stack:

your web app
Tomcat
Java
OS

> I'm coming from a "mid-range background," Tandem NonStop and Windows
> .NET via VB or C#.

ASP.NET is not that different from a Java EE web container (aka servlet
container).

Arne

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#27754

Thanks!

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#27752

More or less.

Tomcat, JBoss, Glassfish, etc. are all applications to the Unix 
environment.  (Or whatever environment/OS you run.)

But in the parlance of web programming, your application is the thing 
that a client sees in their web browser.  Both JBoss and Tomcat at least 
(and probably all other containers) are capable of running more than one 
application as a separate virtual host.  Exactly like Apache is capable 
of running separate websites as virtual hosts.

It's really a quibble over semantics.  You could call a Java Enterprise 
Edition container a framework, but the entry point for the OS is the 
container itself, and the app runs as a series of callbacks. 
"Container" is just JEE parlance for the thing that does that work for 
you (processes incoming request, sends a response, connects to a DB, 
etc.) which conforms to their JEE specification of what a container does.

In the same way we call a database a database even though it's really an 
application too, we have different names for different specific types of 
applications: demon, shell, name server, etc.  Container is just one of 
those names.



On 3/13/2014 9:24 AM, Robert Hutchings wrote:
> Hi Robert,
>
> When we talk about "application servers" or "containers", what
> exactly does this mean?  These are, in themselves, applications,
> correct?  They are an application that enables other applications.
> So, for example, Tomcat runs as an application or UNIX process(es)
> and a Java servlet executes in the context of the Tomcat
> instance...is that correct?
>
> I'm coming from a "mid-range background," Tandem NonStop and Windows
> .NET via VB or C#.
>

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#27753

Thanks!

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#27767

On 03/13/2014 01:24 PM, Robert Hutchings wrote:
> Hi Robert,
>
> When we talk about "application servers" or "containers", what exactly does this mean?  These are, in themselves, applications, correct?  They are an application that enables other applications.  So, for example, Tomcat runs as an application or UNIX process(es) and a Java servlet executes in the context of the Tomcat instance...is that correct?
>
> I'm coming from a "mid-range background," Tandem NonStop and Windows .NET via VB or C#.
>
Good answers from others. I'll emphasize one other thing: the "server" 
bit. In a nutshell, a server serves - it responds to requests to do 
something on another program's behalf. In the case of an application 
server (container), the server serves the applications, providing common 
services.

AHS
-- 
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign:
that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
-- Jonathan Swift

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