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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #36446 > unrolled thread
| Started by | pablo <pa24959122@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-04-16 11:53 -0700 |
| Last post | 2017-04-18 20:05 -0400 |
| Articles | 7 on this page of 27 — 6 participants |
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hash map pablo <pa24959122@gmail.com> - 2017-04-16 11:53 -0700
Re: hash map Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-04-16 19:10 +0000
Re:hash map omegajunior <omegajunior@protonmail.com> - 2017-04-16 17:11 -0400
Re: hash map pablo <pa24959122@gmail.com> - 2017-04-17 04:31 -0700
Re: hash map Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-17 05:11 -0700
Re: hash map pablo <pa24959122@gmail.com> - 2017-04-17 05:32 -0700
Re: hash map Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-17 05:58 -0700
Re: hash map Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-04-17 09:10 -0400
Re: hash map pablo <pa24959122@gmail.com> - 2017-04-17 06:53 -0700
Re: hash map Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-04-17 10:15 -0400
Re: hash map pablo <pa24959122@gmail.com> - 2017-04-17 07:25 -0700
Re: hash map Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-17 07:46 -0700
Re: hash map Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-04-17 10:54 -0400
Re: hash map pablo <pa24959122@gmail.com> - 2017-04-17 08:29 -0700
Re: hash map Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-17 08:44 -0700
Re: hash map Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-04-17 12:07 -0400
Re: hash map pablo <pa24959122@gmail.com> - 2017-04-17 09:32 -0700
Re: hash map Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-04-17 23:14 +0000
Re: hash map Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-04-17 20:22 -0400
Re: hash map Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-04-18 01:20 +0000
Re: hash map Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-04-18 20:01 -0400
Re: hash map Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-04-19 09:02 +0000
Re: hash map Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-18 04:54 -0700
Re: hash map Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-04-18 20:03 -0400
Re: hash map Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2017-04-19 08:55 +0000
Re: hash map Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-19 04:45 -0700
Re: hash map Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-04-18 20:05 -0400
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-18 20:01 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <od69c6$1mvd$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #36484 |
On 4/17/2017 9:20 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote: > On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 20:22:50 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 4/17/2017 7:14 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote: >>> I know this is off-topic for this newsgroup, but if I knew any book >>> that covered programming in Java as well as "K&R C ed. 2" covers C I'd >>> have recommended that. >> >> If one was to learn a simpler procedural language before going for a >> more complex object oriented language, then I would suggest Pascal not >> C. > > Fair enough, but can you recommend any readily obtainable Pascal book > that's as good as either edition of the K&R C book? Some of the O'Reilly > books come close but that's about it. Been some years since I was into Pascal intro books. Probably some years since there has really been a market for Pascal intro books. So I don't know what books are available. I just believe that Pascal is an excellent language for learning basic control structures, simple data structure and algorithms. Arne
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| From | Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-19 09:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <od793b$tvf$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #36488 |
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 20:01:10 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > I just believe that Pascal is an excellent language for learning basic > control structures, simple data structure and algorithms. > No disagreement here - I have a copy of 'Software Tools in Pascal' as well as Sedgewick's "Algorithms", which also uses Pascal. Both books have very readable Pascal code in them. I've implemented all the code in 'Software Tools' in PL/9, a derivative of PL/M, which both used to be common on early 8-bit machines, and implemented bits of Sedgewick in C. Both gave almost 1:1 statement correspondence with the Pascal originals and were very easy to do. The same is probably true for Pascal->Java as well. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |
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| From | Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-18 04:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <05ce1a1e-7040-4ba9-b3c2-eedf3b89646f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #36482 |
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 8:22:58 PM UTC-4, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > If one was to learn a simpler procedural language before going > for a more complex object oriented language, then I would suggest > Pascal not C. > > Arne I would suggest BASIC. That's what we learned in 8th grade.
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-18 20:03 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <od69gv$1mvd$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #36485 |
On 4/18/2017 7:54 AM, Eric Douglas wrote: > On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 8:22:58 PM UTC-4, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> If one was to learn a simpler procedural language before going >> for a more complex object oriented language, then I would suggest >> Pascal not C. > > I would suggest BASIC. That's what we learned in 8th grade. VB.NET is a very complex language. VB6 is a somewhat complex language. And more primitive Basic dialects (GWBasic and similar) does not lean themselves as well to teaching good structured code. Obviously I may have missed something in between. Arne
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| From | Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-19 08:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <od78l9$tvf$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #36489 |
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 20:03:43 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > And more primitive Basic dialects (GWBasic and similar) > does not lean themselves as well to teaching good structured code. > Here's an interesting one: https://projects.drogon.net/rtb/ Known as Return To Basics (rtb), it isn't really Basic but is a line numberless, structured interactive language that is aimed at doing the same job. It is implemented as a P-coded interpretive system and was developed on, and currently runs on, a RaspberryPi. As implemented, its a graphical interpreter: use your favourite editor to write rtb programs and then use the rtb interpreter to run them, complete with its built in graphics package which uses traditional, early Spectrum/CoCo/Trash 80/ Apple II style graphics. I've only played with it briefly, but it looks like a reasonable teaching language, and certainly a lot better than the likes of Scratch. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |
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| From | Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-19 04:45 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d05515a4-ab3a-41bc-b052-f8e293766fe9@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #36489 |
On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 8:03:51 PM UTC-4, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > And more primitive Basic dialects (GWBasic and similar) > does not lean themselves as well to teaching good > structured code. > > Obviously I may have missed something in between. > > Arne I'm not sure what the most primitive BASIC was but we wrote it on TRS80s. It had the ugly GOTO verb, otherwise worked fine for teaching the basics of variable assignment type stuff. Since it was the first thing I learned (COBOL the second), I'm not sure what else is great for someone who has never coded before. I have tried to teach Java to one or two who have never coded before and it seems like it may not be the easiest language for beginners. I don't know if the BlueJ editor does anything to help you code or if they use it in schools because it makes you check everything manually. Eclipse is great with the code assist, fixing indentation for you, highlighting missed braces kind of stuff. If you can't get your code properly indented to match up the braces and parentheses you're probably not going far with Java. That's step one. Step two is getting proper variables, with proper scopes and naming conventions.
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-18 20:05 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <od69kb$1mvd$3@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #36485 |
On 4/18/2017 10:21 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 8:22:58 PM UTC-4, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> If one was to learn a simpler procedural language before going
>>> for a more complex object oriented language, then I would suggest
>>> Pascal not C.
>> I would suggest BASIC. That's what we learned in 8th grade.
>
> I teach object-oriented languages like C++, Java, C#, and
> Python.
>
> The way I do this, is to teach gradually incrementing
> sub-languages.
That is another way.
> Programs look like
>
> public final class Main
> { public static void main( final java.lang.String[] args )
> { java.lang.System.out.println
> ( 1+2*3 ); }}
But why not teach them to write Java that looks like Java!?!?
Arne
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