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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #33074 > unrolled thread

Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week

Started bySang Shin <sangshinpassion@gmail.com>
First post2015-11-10 05:41 -0800
Last post2015-11-12 22:10 -0500
Articles 10 — 5 participants

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Contents

  Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week Sang Shin <sangshinpassion@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 05:41 -0800
    Re: Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 06:38 -0800
      Re: Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-10 12:15 -0500
      Re: Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-10 19:39 -0500
        Re: Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-10 21:01 -0500
          Re: Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-10 21:37 -0500
            Re: Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-11-10 22:13 -0500
        Re: Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 05:04 -0800
          Re: Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-11-11 17:29 -0500
          Re: Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-11-12 22:10 -0500

#33074 — Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week

FromSang Shin <sangshinpassion@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-10 05:41 -0800
SubjectFree auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week
Message-ID<30c5c642-906d-421c-ad54-58fec4d0be50@googlegroups.com>
Folks,

I am conducting 5-day Ruby on Rails online codecamp next week (Nov. 16-20).
And auditing is free.  Please register via 

    https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/6900638692622376961

The topics we will cover are as following:

    Ruby/Rails Installation - Lab, Recording (18m)
    Ruby Basics I  - PDF, Lab, Recording (57m)
    Ruby Basics II - PDF, Lab, Recording (56m)
    Ruby Blocks - PDF,  Lab, Recording (47m)
    Ruby Meta-programming - PDF,  Lab, Recording (35m)
    Rails Basics - PDF,  Lab, Recording part1 (65m) Recording part2 (23m)
    Scaffolding - PDF, Lab, Recording (35m)
    Configuration - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
    Action Controller Basics - PDF, Lab, Recording (65m)
    Routing - PDF, Lab, Recording (54m)
    Active Record I - PDF, Lab, Recording (51m)
    Active Record II - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
    Active Record Associations - PDF,  Lab, Recording (63m)
    Action View Layout and Partial  - PDF, Lab, Recording (41m)
    Action View Form Helpers - PDF, Lab, Recording (60m)
    Ajax and JavaScript - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
    CoffeeScript - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
    Asset Pipeline - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
    Action View HAML - PDF,  Lab, Recording (30m)
    Authentication (using "devise") - PDF, Lab, Recording (50m)
    RSpec I - PDF, Lab, Recording (75m)
    RSpec II - PDF, Lab, Recording (31m )
    Deployment (focused on Cloud) - PDF, Lab, Recording (40m)
    Caching - PDF, Lab, Recording ()

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#33076

FromEric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-10 06:38 -0800
Message-ID<b95dd9c2-4ff6-4062-951e-e69973b06cf6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#33074
On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 8:41:59 AM UTC-5, Sang Shin wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> I am conducting 5-day Ruby on Rails online codecamp next week (Nov. 16-20).
> And auditing is free.  Please register via 
> 
>     https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/6900638692622376961
> 
> The topics we will cover are as following:
> 
>     Ruby/Rails Installation - Lab, Recording (18m)
>     Ruby Basics I  - PDF, Lab, Recording (57m)
>     Ruby Basics II - PDF, Lab, Recording (56m)
>     Ruby Blocks - PDF,  Lab, Recording (47m)
>     Ruby Meta-programming - PDF,  Lab, Recording (35m)
>     Rails Basics - PDF,  Lab, Recording part1 (65m) Recording part2 (23m)
>     Scaffolding - PDF, Lab, Recording (35m)
>     Configuration - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
>     Action Controller Basics - PDF, Lab, Recording (65m)
>     Routing - PDF, Lab, Recording (54m)
>     Active Record I - PDF, Lab, Recording (51m)
>     Active Record II - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
>     Active Record Associations - PDF,  Lab, Recording (63m)
>     Action View Layout and Partial  - PDF, Lab, Recording (41m)
>     Action View Form Helpers - PDF, Lab, Recording (60m)
>     Ajax and JavaScript - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
>     CoffeeScript - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
>     Asset Pipeline - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
>     Action View HAML - PDF,  Lab, Recording (30m)
>     Authentication (using "devise") - PDF, Lab, Recording (50m)
>     RSpec I - PDF, Lab, Recording (75m)
>     RSpec II - PDF, Lab, Recording (31m )
>     Deployment (focused on Cloud) - PDF, Lab, Recording (40m)
>     Caching - PDF, Lab, Recording ()

Is Ruby on Rails still a useful thing to learn?
Is GRails still useful/supported/popular?
I tried searching for info and found this thread that suggests they're both dying.
http://www.coderanch.com/t/644878/oa/Play-Java-Play-Scala-Grails

Is Play a better option?
https://www.playframework.com/
This works with Java, or do you have to learn Scala?
Are these technologies for client, server, or both?
Can a website be written with just Javascript, or is that just client side?
Are any of these better than PHP, or to be used in addition to it?

I write client-server desktop applications that just run on the local domain.  I've always thought I should learn web technology but it seems like there's a lot of languages that do the same thing and a new one comes out every year.  I don't want to master any of these only to hear they've dropped support or companies are looking for developers who know something different.

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#33078

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2015-11-10 12:15 -0500
Message-ID<n1t8jo$5et$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#33076
On 11/10/2015 9:38 AM, Eric Douglas wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 8:41:59 AM UTC-5, Sang Shin wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> I am conducting 5-day Ruby on Rails online codecamp next week (Nov. 16-20).
>> And auditing is free.  Please register via 
>>
>>     https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/6900638692622376961
>>
>> The topics we will cover are as following:
>>
>>     Ruby/Rails Installation - Lab, Recording (18m)
>>     Ruby Basics I  - PDF, Lab, Recording (57m)
>>     Ruby Basics II - PDF, Lab, Recording (56m)
>>     Ruby Blocks - PDF,  Lab, Recording (47m)
>>     Ruby Meta-programming - PDF,  Lab, Recording (35m)
>>     Rails Basics - PDF,  Lab, Recording part1 (65m) Recording part2 (23m)
>>     Scaffolding - PDF, Lab, Recording (35m)
>>     Configuration - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
>>     Action Controller Basics - PDF, Lab, Recording (65m)
>>     Routing - PDF, Lab, Recording (54m)
>>     Active Record I - PDF, Lab, Recording (51m)
>>     Active Record II - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
>>     Active Record Associations - PDF,  Lab, Recording (63m)
>>     Action View Layout and Partial  - PDF, Lab, Recording (41m)
>>     Action View Form Helpers - PDF, Lab, Recording (60m)
>>     Ajax and JavaScript - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
>>     CoffeeScript - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
>>     Asset Pipeline - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
>>     Action View HAML - PDF,  Lab, Recording (30m)
>>     Authentication (using "devise") - PDF, Lab, Recording (50m)
>>     RSpec I - PDF, Lab, Recording (75m)
>>     RSpec II - PDF, Lab, Recording (31m )
>>     Deployment (focused on Cloud) - PDF, Lab, Recording (40m)
>>     Caching - PDF, Lab, Recording ()
> 
> Is Ruby on Rails still a useful thing to learn?
> Is GRails still useful/supported/popular?
> I tried searching for info and found this thread that suggests they're both dying.
> http://www.coderanch.com/t/644878/oa/Play-Java-Play-Scala-Grails
>

I don't know myself, but I have a couple of friends who seem to be
making a good living with it.

> Is Play a better option?
> https://www.playframework.com/
> This works with Java, or do you have to learn Scala?
> Are these technologies for client, server, or both?
> Can a website be written with just Javascript, or is that just client side?
> Are any of these better than PHP, or to be used in addition to it?
> 
> I write client-server desktop applications that just run on the local domain.  I've always thought I should learn web technology but it seems like there's a lot of languages that do the same thing and a new one comes out every year.  I don't want to master any of these only to hear they've dropped support or companies are looking for developers who know something different.
> 

There are advantages and disadvantages to every technology.  You need to
define your requirements for a language, then determine which
language(s) best fit your needs.  No one language will be best in every
circumstance - which is why there are so many languages.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#33085

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2015-11-10 19:39 -0500
Message-ID<n1u2np$g8b$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#33076
On 11/10/2015 9:38 AM, Eric Douglas wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 8:41:59 AM UTC-5, Sang Shin wrote:
>> I am conducting 5-day Ruby on Rails online codecamp next week (Nov. 16-20).
>> And auditing is free.

I will not recommend anyone to take RoR training from someone posting
it (aka spamming) a Java group.

> Is Ruby on Rails still a useful thing to learn?
> Is GRails still useful/supported/popular?
> I tried searching for info and found this thread that suggests they're both dying.
> http://www.coderanch.com/t/644878/oa/Play-Java-Play-Scala-Grails
>
> Is Play a better option?
 > https://www.playframework.com/
 > This works with Java, or do you have to learn Scala?
 > Are these technologies for client, server, or both?
 > Can a website be written with just Javascript, or is that just client 
side?
 > Are any of these better than PHP, or to be used in addition to it?

There are always anecdotal stories about this and that.

Let us try a more systematic approach.

See what companies are actually looking for.

Let us use dice.com assuming US market.

Languages:

16783 jobs requiring Java
11918 jobs requiring JavaScript
2804 jobs requiring PHP
1910 jobs requiring Ruby
708 jobs requiring Scala
415 jobs requiring Groovy

Web frameworks:

1150 jobs requiring node.js
883 jobs requiring Rails
862 jobs requiring Struts
545 jobs requiring Play
401 jobs requiring JSF
171 jobs requiring Grails
149 jobs requiring ZF
31 jobs requiring Wicket

Neither RoR nor Grails seems to be dying. But are not in the Java or
PHP league either.

JavaScript with the exception of node.js and similar is client side,
while the rest is server side.

Even with a true client side HTML/CSS/JS app you will need
some services server side for practically all usage.

In the Java world those services would typically be based on JAX-RS.

Arne

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#33088

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2015-11-10 21:01 -0500
Message-ID<n1u7dg$tso$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#33085
On 11/10/2015 7:39 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 11/10/2015 9:38 AM, Eric Douglas wrote:
>> On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 8:41:59 AM UTC-5, Sang Shin wrote:
>>> I am conducting 5-day Ruby on Rails online codecamp next week (Nov.
>>> 16-20).
>>> And auditing is free.
> 
> I will not recommend anyone to take RoR training from someone posting
> it (aka spamming) a Java group.
> 
>> Is Ruby on Rails still a useful thing to learn?
>> Is GRails still useful/supported/popular?
>> I tried searching for info and found this thread that suggests they're
>> both dying.
>> http://www.coderanch.com/t/644878/oa/Play-Java-Play-Scala-Grails
>>
>> Is Play a better option?
>> https://www.playframework.com/
>> This works with Java, or do you have to learn Scala?
>> Are these technologies for client, server, or both?
>> Can a website be written with just Javascript, or is that just client
> side?
>> Are any of these better than PHP, or to be used in addition to it?
> 
> There are always anecdotal stories about this and that.
> 
> Let us try a more systematic approach.
> 
> See what companies are actually looking for.
> 
> Let us use dice.com assuming US market.
> 
> Languages:
> 
> 16783 jobs requiring Java
> 11918 jobs requiring JavaScript
> 2804 jobs requiring PHP
> 1910 jobs requiring Ruby
> 708 jobs requiring Scala
> 415 jobs requiring Groovy
> 
> Web frameworks:
> 
> 1150 jobs requiring node.js
> 883 jobs requiring Rails
> 862 jobs requiring Struts
> 545 jobs requiring Play
> 401 jobs requiring JSF
> 171 jobs requiring Grails
> 149 jobs requiring ZF
> 31 jobs requiring Wicket
> 
> Neither RoR nor Grails seems to be dying. But are not in the Java or
> PHP league either.
> 
> JavaScript with the exception of node.js and similar is client side,
> while the rest is server side.
> 
> Even with a true client side HTML/CSS/JS app you will need
> some services server side for practically all usage.
> 
> In the Java world those services would typically be based on JAX-RS.
> 
> Arne
> 
> 

I would not consider dice.com to be a reliable indication of any demand.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#33090

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2015-11-10 21:37 -0500
Message-ID<n1u9m5$rei$2@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#33088
On 11/10/2015 9:01 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 11/10/2015 7:39 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> See what companies are actually looking for.
>>
>> Let us use dice.com assuming US market.
>>
>> Languages:
>>
>> 16783 jobs requiring Java
>> 11918 jobs requiring JavaScript
>> 2804 jobs requiring PHP
>> 1910 jobs requiring Ruby
>> 708 jobs requiring Scala
>> 415 jobs requiring Groovy
>>
>> Web frameworks:
>>
>> 1150 jobs requiring node.js
>> 883 jobs requiring Rails
>> 862 jobs requiring Struts
>> 545 jobs requiring Play
>> 401 jobs requiring JSF
>> 171 jobs requiring Grails
>> 149 jobs requiring ZF
>> 31 jobs requiring Wicket

> I would not consider dice.com to be a reliable indication of any demand.

It may not be perfect, but it is a lot better than
any anecdotal evidence.

Arne

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#33094

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2015-11-10 22:13 -0500
Message-ID<n1ubk5$3td$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#33090
On 11/10/2015 9:37 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 11/10/2015 9:01 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 11/10/2015 7:39 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> See what companies are actually looking for.
>>>
>>> Let us use dice.com assuming US market.
>>>
>>> Languages:
>>>
>>> 16783 jobs requiring Java
>>> 11918 jobs requiring JavaScript
>>> 2804 jobs requiring PHP
>>> 1910 jobs requiring Ruby
>>> 708 jobs requiring Scala
>>> 415 jobs requiring Groovy
>>>
>>> Web frameworks:
>>>
>>> 1150 jobs requiring node.js
>>> 883 jobs requiring Rails
>>> 862 jobs requiring Struts
>>> 545 jobs requiring Play
>>> 401 jobs requiring JSF
>>> 171 jobs requiring Grails
>>> 149 jobs requiring ZF
>>> 31 jobs requiring Wicket
> 
>> I would not consider dice.com to be a reliable indication of any demand.
> 
> It may not be perfect, but it is a lot better than
> any anecdotal evidence.
> 
> Arne
> 
> 

No, it is not.  Bad data is worse than no data at all.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#33105

FromEric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-11 05:04 -0800
Message-ID<1473221e-ef24-4a7c-b5c3-d2248d16aa92@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#33085
On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 7:39:37 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> I will not recommend anyone to take RoR training from someone posting
> it (aka spamming) a Java group.

I certainly wouldn't pay for a class from a spammer but if it's legit in teaching anything I'd be interested in checking out a free tutorial.

> See what companies are actually looking for.
> 
> Let us use dice.com assuming US market.
> 
> Languages:
> 
> 16783 jobs requiring Java
> 11918 jobs requiring JavaScript
> 2804 jobs requiring PHP
> 1910 jobs requiring Ruby
> 708 jobs requiring Scala
> 415 jobs requiring Groovy
> 
> Web frameworks:
> 
> 1150 jobs requiring node.js
> 883 jobs requiring Rails
> 862 jobs requiring Struts
> 545 jobs requiring Play
> 401 jobs requiring JSF
> 171 jobs requiring Grails
> 149 jobs requiring ZF
> 31 jobs requiring Wicket
> 
> Neither RoR nor Grails seems to be dying. But are not in the Java or
> PHP league either.

Number of current job openings is not an indicator of whether a language is dying.  You'd have to see long term trends.  Having fewer job openings could be a good thing if it's gaining popularity and there's a lot fewer developers applying.

> JavaScript with the exception of node.js and similar is client side,
> while the rest is server side.
> 
> Even with a true client side HTML/CSS/JS app you will need
> some services server side for practically all usage.

That's the crazy part of the web development career path.  There are languages used only for clients and other languages used only on servers and you have to know them all to find a new job because the companies mix and match.

> In the Java world those services would typically be based on JAX-RS.

Oh great, one more thing to learn?

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#33109

FromJeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid>
Date2015-11-11 17:29 -0500
Message-ID<n20fbp$phm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#33105
On 11/11/2015 08:04 AM, Eric Douglas wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 7:39:37 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> I will not recommend anyone to take RoR training from someone posting
>> it (aka spamming) a Java group.
>
> I certainly wouldn't pay for a class from a spammer but if it's legit in teaching anything I'd be interested in checking out a free tutorial.
>
I guess an ROR course advertisment on cljp is spam.
I've not taken any of Sang Shin's courses, but I've heard
considerably more positive than negative - even after he
moved to a paid subscription format.
<http://www.jpassion.com/portal/>

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#33115

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2015-11-12 22:10 -0500
Message-ID<n23kbc$3rp$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#33105
On 11/11/2015 8:04 AM, Eric Douglas wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 7:39:37 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> Let us use dice.com assuming US market.
>>
>> Languages:
>>
>> 16783 jobs requiring Java
>> 11918 jobs requiring JavaScript
>> 2804 jobs requiring PHP
>> 1910 jobs requiring Ruby
>> 708 jobs requiring Scala
>> 415 jobs requiring Groovy
>>
>> Web frameworks:
>>
>> 1150 jobs requiring node.js
>> 883 jobs requiring Rails
>> 862 jobs requiring Struts
>> 545 jobs requiring Play
>> 401 jobs requiring JSF
>> 171 jobs requiring Grails
>> 149 jobs requiring ZF
>> 31 jobs requiring Wicket
>>
>> Neither RoR nor Grails seems to be dying. But are not in the Java or
>> PHP league either.
>
> Number of current job openings is not an indicator of whether a
> language is dying.

If companies hire a lot then it can not really be called dying.

> You'd have to see long term trends.

Well - you have no guarantee that trends will continue.

"past performance does not necessarily predict future results" is they
say.

But for some of the the language part I can actually provide some history:

               18-Dec-2011         10-Nov-2015
Java             16135                16783
PHP               3328                 2804
Ruby              1661                 1910

Surprisingly little change in 4 years!

>                                                     Having fewer job
 > openings could be a good thing if it's gaining popularity and there's a
> lot fewer developers applying.

Job openings are just the demand side.

There is obviously also a supply side.

To estimate supply vs demand I will recommend that you look
at how long the job ads has been up.

long time => supply < demand
short time => supply > demand

You could also try and look at salary levels.

high => supply < demand
low => supply > demand

But even though that is what economic theory predicts then the
modern job market is rather complex when it gets to salary
determination.

Anyway - indeed.com gives the following average salaries:

Java         102 K$
JavaScript    99 K$
PHP           89 K$
Ruby         107 K$
Scala        120 K$
Groovy       112 K$

But if you want my subjective guess, then I think this more reflect the
type of developers choosing the languages than it reflects supply
and demand.

Or to be more specific: I don't think Scala being in the top reflect
that companies demand more Scala developers than there are available - I
think it reflects that the developers that master Scala are all top
developers (because it is not an easy language to master) and they
would get a good salary no matter what they chose to program in.

>> JavaScript with the exception of node.js and similar is client side,
>> while the rest is server side.
>>
>> Even with a true client side HTML/CSS/JS app you will need
>> some services server side for practically all usage.
>
> That's the crazy part of the web development career path. There are
> languages used only for clients and other languages used only on servers
> and you have to know them all to find a new job because the companies
> mix and match.

The "full stack developer" is in fashion right now.

But there is so much you need to know.

HTML, CSS, client side JS
a server side language
SQL
XML, XSD, XPath
JSON
general OOP
etc.

>> In the Java world those services would typically be based on JAX-RS.
>
> Oh great, one more thing to learn?

Guess so.

But it is relative easy.

Arne

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