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Does anyone understand this?

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  Does anyone understand this? Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 17:17 +0100
    Re: Does anyone understand this? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2015-08-17 19:06 +0200
      Re: Does anyone understand this? Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 19:00 +0100
        Re: Does anyone understand this? e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-08-17 12:39 -0700
        Re: Does anyone understand this? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-17 20:07 -0400
      Re: Does anyone understand this? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-17 20:02 -0400
    Re: Does anyone understand this? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-17 19:53 -0400

#32337 — Does anyone understand this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33927848

particularly

...In its legal papers, Oracle said the ongoing success of Android was 
in danger of "destroying" interest in Java.

Does anyone understand why the success might destroy interest in Java, 
I'd have thought it was the other way around ?

...The "widespread dominance" that Android had achieved in the mobile 
phone market had done "irreversible" damage to Java's potential market, 
said Oracle.

Why? I don't get it


-- 
Laughing Spam Fritter

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#32338

On 17.08.2015 18:17, Eternal Hope wrote:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33927848
>
> particularly
>
> ...In its legal papers, Oracle said the ongoing success of Android was
> in danger of "destroying" interest in Java.
>
> Does anyone understand why the success might destroy interest in Java,
> I'd have thought it was the other way around ?

What they probably mean: it will destroy the interest in the _right_ (as 
in "one and only") Java because people only see and use the _wrong_ Java 
(i.e. the on used on Android devices).

> ...The "widespread dominance" that Android had achieved in the mobile
> phone market had done "irreversible" damage to Java's potential market,
> said Oracle.
>
> Why? I don't get it

On a more abstract level I think Oracle is struggling and that's why 
they turn to lawsuits more and more.  The blog post recently about how 
Oracle intends to deal with people who find vulnerabilities in their 
products show a similar attitude (the post was removed later).  Here is 
a summary:

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2015/08/oracle_cso_mary_ann_davidson_doesn_t_want_to_hear_about_software_vulnerabilities.html

Cheers

	robert

-- 
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

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#32339

On 17/08/2015 18:06, Robert Klemme wrote:
> On 17.08.2015 18:17, Eternal Hope wrote:
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33927848
>>
>> particularly
>>
>> ...In its legal papers, Oracle said the ongoing success of Android was
>> in danger of "destroying" interest in Java.
>>
>> Does anyone understand why the success might destroy interest in Java,
>> I'd have thought it was the other way around ?
>
> What they probably mean: it will destroy the interest in the _right_ (as
> in "one and only") Java because people only see and use the _wrong_ Java
> (i.e. the on used on Android devices).

Oh, OK

>> ...The "widespread dominance" that Android had achieved in the mobile
>> phone market had done "irreversible" damage to Java's potential market,
>> said Oracle.
>>
>> Why? I don't get it
>
> On a more abstract level I think Oracle is struggling and that's why
> they turn to lawsuits more and more.  The blog post recently about how
> Oracle intends to deal with people who find vulnerabilities in their
> products show a similar attitude (the post was removed later).  Here is
> a summary:
>
> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2015/08/oracle_cso_mary_ann_davidson_doesn_t_want_to_hear_about_software_vulnerabilities.html

Good grief ...

I've never really fully understood why Sun and now Oracle pour(ed) what 
must be large amounts of cash into Java and then continue to give it 
away free. I know Oracle bought up WebLogic and flog it for a big wedge 
but I can't see that covering the ex's. If you want the latest 
specification for C you have to pay for it. I know the 'final drafts' 
are free but still, if you want the approved documentation AFAIAA you 
have to stump up the readies.

DuckDuckGo "why is Java free" gives all sorts of reasons, I'm not 
expecting a definitive answer, it's just rhetorical musings really. I've 
earned a good living for years from Java and never paid a penny to a 
vendor. It just seems odd given that you have to pay to take a piss 
these days, someone in the UK has even started flogging cans of Lake 
District air apparently.

Go figure

-- 
Laughing Spam Fritter

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#32342

On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 2:01:03 PM UTC-4, Eternal Hope wrote:
> I've never really fully understood why Sun and now Oracle pour(ed) what 
> must be large amounts of cash into Java and then continue to give it 
> away free. I know Oracle bought up WebLogic and flog it for a big wedge 
> but I can't see that covering the ex's. If you want the latest 
> specification for C you have to pay for it. I know the 'final drafts' 
> are free but still, if you want the approved documentation AFAIAA you 
> have to stump up the readies.
> 
> DuckDuckGo "why is Java free" gives all sorts of reasons, I'm not 
> expecting a definitive answer, it's just rhetorical musings really. I've 
> earned a good living for years from Java and never paid a penny to a 
> vendor. It just seems odd given that you have to pay to take a piss 
> these days, someone in the UK has even started flogging cans of Lake 
> District air apparently.

Aren't most things free these days?  I can get Java free and write code that runs on any device that supports a full Java install.  I can get C# free and write code that runs on any device that has Windows.  There's usually a catch paid for by someone.  Do you have to pay to put Java on a device ie a blu-ray player?  Don't they also have a paid Java, with extended support life?  I wonder how much they get from that.

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#32349

On 8/17/2015 2:00 PM, Eternal Hope wrote:
> I've never really fully understood why Sun and now Oracle pour(ed) what
> must be large amounts of cash into Java and then continue to give it
> away free. I know Oracle bought up WebLogic and flog it for a big wedge
> but I can't see that covering the ex's. If you want the latest
> specification for C you have to pay for it. I know the 'final drafts'
> are free but still, if you want the approved documentation AFAIAA you
> have to stump up the readies.
>
> DuckDuckGo "why is Java free" gives all sorts of reasons, I'm not
> expecting a definitive answer, it's just rhetorical musings really. I've
> earned a good living for years from Java and never paid a penny to a
> vendor. It just seems odd given that you have to pay to take a piss
> these days, someone in the UK has even started flogging cans of Lake
> District air apparently.

Most languages, development frameworks and development tools
are free today.

PHP is free. C# and .NET is free. C/C++ is often free.

Java would lose out in competition if SUN/Oracle had/started to
charge for it.

Arne

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#32348

On 8/17/2015 1:06 PM, Robert Klemme wrote:
> On a more abstract level I think Oracle is struggling and that's why
> they turn to lawsuits more and more.  The blog post recently about how
> Oracle intends to deal with people who find vulnerabilities in their
> products show a similar attitude (the post was removed later).  Here is
> a summary:
>
> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2015/08/oracle_cso_mary_ann_davidson_doesn_t_want_to_hear_about_software_vulnerabilities.html

Well - the headline is not true - and the content is grossly
misleading.

Let us pick a couple of quotes from:

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/oracle-security-chief-to-customers-stop-checking-our-code-for-vulnerabilities/

<quote>
This is why we require customers to log a service request for each 
alleged issue (not just hand us a report) and provide a proof of concept 
(which some tools can generate).
</quote>

So Oracle indeed want to hear about software vulnerabilities
if people follow Oracle's process for it.

The real beef seems to be:

<quote>
A customer can’t analyze the code to see whether there is a control that 
prevents the attack the scanning tool is screaming about (which is most 
likely a false positive)
</quote>

<quote>
She dismissed such reports, saying that "we don’t just accept scan 
reports as 'proof that there is a there, there,' in part because whether 
you are talking static or dynamic analysis, a scan report is not proof 
of an actual vulnerability. Often, they are not much more than a pile of 
steaming … FUD. (That is what I planned on saying all along: FUD.)
</quote>

Which seems to say that she is very tired of receiving a stream of
vulnerability reports based on some analysis tool claiming
there is a vulnerability.

That is very different from the headline used many places.

So I think the conclusion is that:
* Oracle do accept vulnerability reports
* Oracle has a process for things [no surprise]
* Oracle do not have a problem threatening with legal action [no surprise]
* Oracle has a CSO that is clueless about PR
* The internet is full of misleading information [no surprise]

Arne

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#32347

On 8/17/2015 12:17 PM, Eternal Hope wrote:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33927848
>
> particularly
>
> ...In its legal papers, Oracle said the ongoing success of Android was
> in danger of "destroying" interest in Java.
>
> Does anyone understand why the success might destroy interest in Java,
> I'd have thought it was the other way around ?
>
> ...The "widespread dominance" that Android had achieved in the mobile
> phone market had done "irreversible" damage to Java's potential market,
> said Oracle.
>
> Why? I don't get it

Android is not a complete and certified Java, so in Oracle's world
it is not Java.

So you should read it as:

<translated>
The "widespread dominance" that Android had achieved in the mobile
phone market had done "irreversible" damage to the potential market
for Java ME and Java SE Embedded products from Oracle.
</translated>

Arne

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