Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #27558 > unrolled thread

error discription and solution

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.java.programmer

Contents

  error discription and solution Navneet Mathpal <navneetmathpal93@gmail.com> - 2014-02-20 00:59 -0800
    Re: error discription and solution Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2014-02-20 14:05 -0800
    Re: error discription and solution Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-02-21 08:56 -0800
      Re: error discription and solution lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-02-21 17:53 +0000
        Re: error discription and solution Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-02-26 10:22 -0800
          Re: error discription and solution lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-02-26 19:30 +0000
            Re: error discription and solution Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-02-26 21:26 +0100
              Re: error discription and solution lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-02-26 21:19 +0000
                Re: error discription and solution Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-02-26 23:04 +0100
                Re: error discription and solution leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-02-26 16:53 -0600
                  Re: error discription and solution lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-02-27 08:34 +0000
              Re: error discription and solution lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-03-03 09:27 +0000
                Re: error discription and solution Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-03-03 11:56 +0100
                  Re: error discription and solution lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-03-03 12:08 +0000
                    Re: error discription and solution leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-03-03 06:26 -0600
                      Re: error discription and solution lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-03-03 12:44 +0000
                        Re: error discription and solution leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-03-03 06:58 -0600
                    Re: error discription and solution Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-03-03 17:11 +0100
                      Re: error discription and solution leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-03-03 10:17 -0600
                        Re: error discription and solution Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-03-03 17:39 +0100
                          Re: error discription and solution Simon Lewis <simonlewis2001@gmail.com> - 2014-03-03 20:47 +0100
                          Re: error discription and solution Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-03-03 17:04 -0500
                            Re: error discription and solution "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-03-06 15:25 +0000
                              Future of computing [Was: Re: error discription and solution] Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-03-06 12:03 -0500
                        Re: error discription and solution lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-03-03 17:21 +0000
                      Re: error discription and solution lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-03-03 17:18 +0000
                        Re: error discription and solution leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-03-03 11:26 -0600
                          Re: error discription and solution lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-03-03 18:31 +0000
                        Re: error discription and solution Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-03-03 21:00 +0100
                          Re: error discription and solution lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-03-03 20:19 +0000
                      Re: error discription and solution Simon Lewis <simonlewis2001@gmail.com> - 2014-03-03 20:46 +0100
          Re: error discription and solution Jukka Lahtinen <jtfjdehf@hotmail.com.invalid> - 2014-02-26 23:39 +0200
            Re: error discription and solution Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-02-28 09:08 -0800
              Re: error discription and solution Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-02-28 20:05 +0100
                Re: error discription and solution Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-02-28 15:29 -0800
    Re: error discription and solution Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-02-21 19:48 -0500

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#27675

Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> writes:

> On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 10:17:07 -0600, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:
>
>> Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> wrote:
>>> That is an unfair and disgenuine argument. Nobody is suggesting people
>>> don't LEARN how things work. You asked how to get something to work, not
>>> how to learn about how the Java build process works. Going by your answer,
>>> I would suggest you abandon Java completely, and instead focus on learning
>>> Assembler, which of course you should only ever write using Notepad.
>> Obligatory link to the Story of Mel:
>
>> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html
>
> Every few years, someone links this, and every time, I read it again to my
> great delight. As my life progresses, it's interesting for me to note how
> my view of Mel changed over the years - from uncompromising and unreflected
> hero worship when I was still young and a cowboy, to "I hope I never have
> to fix code like that" when I started working on multi-person projects for
> the first time, to "I hope I never have a coworker like that", ending with
> "I hope I never have an employee like that".
>
> Mel is, at once, the best and the worst aspects of a clever programmer.
>
> Liebe Gruesse,
> 		Joerg

Does he also say only losers need a debugger? That's another cracker
based on something Kernighan said 50 years ago when a large program was
about 32 lines long....

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27679

On 3/3/2014 11:39 AM, Joerg Meier wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 10:17:07 -0600, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:
>
>> Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> wrote:
>>> That is an unfair and disgenuine argument. Nobody is suggesting people
>>> don't LEARN how things work. You asked how to get something to work, not
>>> how to learn about how the Java build process works. Going by your answer,
>>> I would suggest you abandon Java completely, and instead focus on learning
>>> Assembler, which of course you should only ever write using Notepad.
>> Obligatory link to the Story of Mel:
>
>> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html
>
> Every few years, someone links this, and every time, I read it again to my
> great delight. As my life progresses, it's interesting for me to note how
> my view of Mel changed over the years - from uncompromising and unreflected
> hero worship when I was still young and a cowboy, to "I hope I never have
> to fix code like that" when I started working on multi-person projects for
> the first time, to "I hope I never have a coworker like that", ending with
> "I hope I never have an employee like that".
>
> Mel is, at once, the best and the worst aspects of a clever programmer.

     Mel wrought his wonders when the economics of computing were
quite the opposite of those that prevail today.  CPU's were slow,
so CPU cycles were in short supply and therefore expensive.  Memories 
were small, and also expensive (I toured a factory once and saw core
memory being assembled by hand, one ferrite doughnut at a time).
Programmers, on the other hand were cheap and plentiful, "plentiful"
in the sense that a small number of programmers could produce enough
code to keep the small, slow machines running at full capacity; more
programmers would only have increased the backlogs.

     Today it's the other way around. CPU cycles are so plentiful and
cheap that we routinely waste them on things like screen "savers."
Memories are so big that we cheerfully spend sixteen bytes or more
on a `Double' in preference to an eight-byte `double'. And as the
demand for programmers' output has grown, the programmers themselves
have become expensive.  The foot is in the other shoe: Instead of
spending programmer time lavishly to rewrite a program for a new
machine, we strain every nerve to amortize development effort over
multiple hardware generations.  Damn the inefficiencies, full
speed ahead!

     Mel wrote clever code because that's the only code that would
work: The program had to fit in the tiny memory, and it had to finish
before the sponsor's CPU funds ran out.  Today, you and I use words
like "asymptotically" and studiously avoid being clever.  Guess what?
The fact that we *are* right doesn't mean Mel *was* wrong; the fact
that he *was* right doesn't mean we *are* wrong.  We work in radically
different circumstances; it's not too much of a stretch to say we work
in radically different industries.

     The interesting question, I think, is What Happens Tomorrow?
Will quantum computers or thought-directed computing or positronic
brains change things as fundamentally as they have changed since
Mel?  Will the Best Practices we promote today be dismissed as just
so much primitive bunkum?  Naturally, I don't know -- but I wouldn't
bet against it ...

-- 
Eric Sosman
esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27692

Eric Sosman wrote:

>     The interesting question, I think, is What Happens Tomorrow?
> Will quantum computers or thought-directed computing or positronic
> brains change things as fundamentally as they have changed since
> Mel?  Will the Best Practices we promote today be dismissed as just
> so much primitive bunkum?  Naturally, I don't know -- but I wouldn't
> bet against it ...

Nor I, but also I think the process has already started, in a small way, and 
has largely been missed.  No, I'm not talking about multi-core processing (or 
variants on that theme).  The pendulum has swung back, and efficiency /should/ 
now be of first-tier interest -- not so much for saving time, but for saving 
/energy/.  Only desktop machines can ignore their energy use; servers and 
"devices" are (in their very different ways) much more sensitive to power 
consumption.

    -- chris

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27694 — Future of computing [Was: Re: error discription and solution]

On 3/6/2014 10:25 AM, Chris Uppal wrote:
> Eric Sosman wrote:
>
>>      The interesting question, I think, is What Happens Tomorrow?
>> Will quantum computers or thought-directed computing or positronic
>> brains change things as fundamentally as they have changed since
>> Mel?  Will the Best Practices we promote today be dismissed as just
>> so much primitive bunkum?  Naturally, I don't know -- but I wouldn't
>> bet against it ...
>
> Nor I, but also I think the process has already started, in a small way, and
> has largely been missed.  No, I'm not talking about multi-core processing (or
> variants on that theme).  The pendulum has swung back, and efficiency /should/
> now be of first-tier interest -- not so much for saving time, but for saving
> /energy/.  Only desktop machines can ignore their energy use; servers and
> "devices" are (in their very different ways) much more sensitive to power
> consumption.

     (Topic drift severe enough to be called "topic lurch"):

     Hadn't thought of that, specifically, but you may be right
about energy expenditure changing the whole face of computing.
Years ago I read an article (in Scientific American, maybe?)
about thermodynamically efficient computers, in which the authors
maintained that such computers would have to be reversible: Apply
a positive bias voltage to the components and the computation runs
forward, apply a negative bias and it runs backward.

     (The article presupposed that information-theoretic "entropy"
a la Shannon was equivalent to the thermodynamic "entropy" of Carnot
et al.  I wasn't the least bit sure of the equivalence, but later
read a transcript of an address by Richard Feynman in which he
seemed to take it as axiomatic.  Feynman's Nobel Prize collection
is larger than my own, so I'm inclined to take his word for it.)

     Anyhow, if efficient computation has to be reversible, what
can we deduce about an efficient programming language?  One
immediate consequence: NO ASSIGNMENT OPERATOR, because such an
operation wipes out the former contents of the target and is
thus not reversible.  Start thinking about programming entirely
with exchange operators, and today's Best Practices start to
look somewhat beside the point ...

-- 
Eric Sosman
esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27670

On 03/03/14 16:17, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:
> Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> wrote:
>
>> That is an unfair and disgenuine argument. Nobody is suggesting people
>> don't LEARN how things work. You asked how to get something to work, not
>> how to learn about how the Java build process works. Going by your answer,
>> I would suggest you abandon Java completely, and instead focus on learning
>> Assembler, which of course you should only ever write using Notepad.
>>
>
> Obligatory link to the Story of Mel:
>
> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html

... and you were doing so well, you actually managed to maintain a 
(short) conversation without resorting to insults and condescension ... 
and then you had to spoil it.

Ah  well, onwards and upwards.

Great story BTW


-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer,
treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27669

On 03/03/14 16:11, Joerg Meier wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 12:08:16 +0000, lipska the kat wrote:
>
>> I did search something calling itself a Maven repository to no avail,
>> actually it turns out that the relevant jars need compiling on the
>> system on which they are going to be used as there seems to be all sorts
>> of platform specific C code and jni stuff that needs compiling with the
>> gcc toolchain ... apparently.

<snip>

> That is an unfair and disgenuine argument. Nobody is suggesting people
> don't LEARN how things work. You asked how to get something to work,

No I didn't.

Why do you and those like you assume that everyone else is too stupid to 
solve their own problems. Really, it's particularly unattractive 
attribute of otherwise helpful and intelligent people.

I never asked for help, I was simply making a contribution to a 
discussion about finding jar files. You seem to have taken it upon 
yourself to 'educate' me. Don't you realize that this is insulting and 
condescending? Maybe it's a cultural thing, I don't know but it's really 
starting to annoy me and I wish you would stop it.

I have looked at Maven and I have chosen not to use it. You choose to 
use it, that's fine, I respect your decision and wouldn't attempt to 
change it. Why can't you accept my decision. I'm happy with Ant and 
Eclipse ... and if I want to write AT&T GAS in vi and compile without 
make I'll do it, just because I can. It's called enthusiasm. Can you 
understand that?

<snip>

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer,
treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27671

lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> wrote:
> 
> I never asked for help, I was simply making a contribution to a 
> discussion about finding jar files. You seem to have taken it upon 
> yourself to 'educate' me. Don't you realize that this is insulting and 
> condescending? Maybe it's a cultural thing, I don't know but it's really 
> starting to annoy me and I wish you would stop it.

Why exactly are you _here_ if not either to a) educate, b) be educated,
c) all of the above?

-- 
Leif Roar Moldskred

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27672

On 03/03/14 17:26, Leif Roar Moldskred wrote:
> lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> wrote:
>>
>> I never asked for help, I was simply making a contribution to a
>> discussion about finding jar files. You seem to have taken it upon
>> yourself to 'educate' me. Don't you realize that this is insulting and
>> condescending? Maybe it's a cultural thing, I don't know but it's really
>> starting to annoy me and I wish you would stop it.
>
> Why exactly are you _here_ if not either to a) educate, b) be educated,
> c) all of the above?

I was simply making a contribution to a discussion about finding jar 
files. Nothing more, nothing less.


-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer,
treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27676

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 17:18:27 +0000, lipska the kat wrote:

> On 03/03/14 16:11, Joerg Meier wrote:
>> That is an unfair and disgenuine argument. Nobody is suggesting people
>> don't LEARN how things work. You asked how to get something to work,
> No I didn't.

> Why do you and those like you assume that everyone else is too stupid to 
> solve their own problems. Really, it's particularly unattractive 
> attribute of otherwise helpful and intelligent people.

Then I missunderstood you. When you wrote

> I'm trying to get the Java DBus bindings to compile but I can't find 
> the required jars

I thought that meant you had trouble getting the Java DBus bindings to
compile, because you couldn't find the required jars. In fairness, if you
were in fact trying to convey that this is a problem you were intending or
already did solve yourself, and were only sharing as some sort of
LiveJournal entry, I would argue that the blame for this misunderstanding
lies with you.

> I never asked for help, I was simply making a contribution to a 
> discussion about finding jar files. You seem to have taken it upon 
> yourself to 'educate' me. Don't you realize that this is insulting and 
> condescending? Maybe it's a cultural thing, I don't know but it's really 
> starting to annoy me and I wish you would stop it.

It must be a cultural thing, but it explains why I was confused by so many
of your past postings. Personally, I am here to educate both myself and
others, and to further our collective understanding of Java and programming
in general. I thought that was the implicit goal and intend of all posters
here, and the fact that you not only see it that way, but consider that
goal to be some sort of personal insult certainly explains a lot.

With that, then, I really have not much more to say - our views of what
this newsgroup is for seem to be fundamentally opposed. Maybe it's best to
avoid each other in the future.

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27677

On 03/03/14 20:00, Joerg Meier wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 17:18:27 +0000, lipska the kat wrote:
>
>> On 03/03/14 16:11, Joerg Meier wrote:
>>> That is an unfair and disgenuine argument. Nobody is suggesting people
>>> don't LEARN how things work. You asked how to get something to work,
>> No I didn't.
>
>> Why do you and those like you assume that everyone else is too stupid to
>> solve their own problems. Really, it's particularly unattractive
>> attribute of otherwise helpful and intelligent people.
>
> Then I missunderstood you. When you wrote
>
>> I'm trying to get the Java DBus bindings to compile but I can't find
>> the required jars

You did misunderstand yes. I was attempting to agree with someone that 
finding jar files could be a problem and that a better solution to this 
problem was required. It was a rhetorical statement, not a cry for help. 
You then launched into a tutorial on the merits of Maven and various 
other stuff that really didn't have anything to do with what was being 
discussed. I apologize for not making myself clear, I'll try harder in 
the future

> I thought that meant you had trouble getting the Java DBus bindings to
> compile, because you couldn't find the required jars. In fairness, if you
> were in fact trying to convey that this is a problem you were intending or
> already did solve yourself, and were only sharing as some sort of
> LiveJournal entry, I would argue that the blame for this misunderstanding
> lies with you.

I'll take the blame if that will help us get over this hurdle of 
misunderstanding.

<snip>

> With that, then, I really have not much more to say - our views of what
> this newsgroup is for seem to be fundamentally opposed. Maybe it's best to
> avoid each other in the future.

That would be a shame, it's not what I want particularly but you are of 
course free to do as you will.

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer,
treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27674

Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> writes:

> After all, you would only want to use the bare minimum of tools, and not
> have fancy things like garbage collection and abstraction, right ? How much
> time you would save, by not learning the latest greatest language, only for
> it to be superseded a few years later ?
>
> Understanding how things work at their core is a useful skill that should
> certainly be part of any decent education, whether in class or as an
> autodidact. On the other hand, suggesting to stick to the lower and most
> primitive solution while actually working is ridiculous and held only by
> the most ancient and inflexible dinosaurs.
>

Very well said. Also ties in with the sorts who claim "IDEs are rubbish"
and stick with vim or emacs. Vim or Emacs with a huge & complex & rich class
set would be like trying to build a house using grains of sand instead
of bricks. Yes they're great tools but the ease of use and built in vcs
management, debugger, class browsing, javadoc fetching etc simply
"eclipse" (if you'll excuse the pun) anything that Emacs and CEDET (for
example) could manage. Yes they have their places. As the key tool in
developing from complex object orientated code bases not.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27605

Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> writes:

> I would hope Oracle could find some way to subclass
> NoClassDefFoundError the way IOException is, to give you a better hint
> on just what you screwed up, or perhaps to include more hints in the
> message.
> Tracking down NoClassDefFoundError is one of the most onerous errors.

I don't think it's so easy to subclass it.
After all, when the compiler or jre doesn't find a class, it probably
has no way to know WHERE the class really is (if anywhere) or WHY it
isn't anywhere that it looks for classes. It only knows where it DIDN'T
find the missing classes.
Probably about the only thing it could do is tell all the places where
it looked for, and didn't find, the missing class definition.

-- 
Jukka Lahtinen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27618

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:39:15 +0200, Jukka Lahtinen
<jtfjdehf@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

>I don't think it's so easy to subclass it.
>After all, when the compiler or jre doesn't find a class, it probably
>has no way to know WHERE the class really is (if anywhere) or WHY it
>isn't anywhere that it looks for classes. It only knows where it DIDN'T
>find the missing classes.
>Probably about the only thing it could do is tell all the places where
>it looked for, and didn't find, the missing class definition.

Perhaps it would be within reason to:
1. scan all jars on the current computer
2. consult a database somewhere of what popular jars contain.

And hand that info to you with the error message.

It is such a PITA, I think it deserves unusual effort.

Perhaps a separate utility.

-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products http://mindprod.com
The future has already happened, it just isn’t evenly distributed.
~ William Gibson (born: 1948-03-17 age: 65)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27620

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:08:46 -0800, Roedy Green wrote:

> Perhaps it would be within reason to:
> 1. scan all jars on the current computer

Absolutely not. There is no telling what file systems might be mounted and
what kind of volume such a scan could trigger, and there are a thousand
ways that could go wrong, from different versions of the same file to
malicious jars that only need to be dropped on someones HDD to be executed
like that.

> 2. consult a database somewhere of what popular jars contain.

That's pretty much the way Maven goes.

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27622

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 20:05:34 +0100, Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de>
wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:08:46 -0800, Roedy Green wrote:
>
>> Perhaps it would be within reason to:
>> 1. scan all jars on the current computer
>
>Absolutely not. There is no telling what file systems might be mounted and
>what kind of volume such a scan could trigger, and there are a thousand
>ways that could go wrong, from different versions of the same file to
>malicious jars that only need to be dropped on someones HDD to be executed
>like that.

     I was going to answer, but you did an excellent job.

     I hate it when I have to clean up a mess because of something
that a "helpful" program did.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27568

On 2/20/2014 3:59 AM, Navneet Mathpal wrote:
> HTTP Status 500 - Handler processing failed; nested exception is java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/apache/commons/lang/ArrayUtils

Apache Commons Lang jar file is missing in lib !?!?

Arne

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.java.programmer

csiph-web