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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #27043 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-12-22 11:05 -0800 |
| Last post | 2014-01-03 15:43 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 163 — 27 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.java.programmer
ORMs comparisons/complaints. Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-12-22 11:05 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-22 14:46 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-22 15:17 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-22 15:38 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-22 15:47 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-22 16:04 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-22 16:09 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-22 16:20 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-22 16:34 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Christoph Michael Becker <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2013-12-22 22:45 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-12-22 17:33 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-23 12:54 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-22 22:34 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2013-12-24 12:28 +0100
c Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-24 08:49 -0500
Re: c "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-25 09:35 +1100
Re: c Graham Hobbs <ghobbs@cdpwise.net> - 2013-12-24 19:35 -0500
Re: c Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-25 00:08 -0500
Re: c lipska the kat <"lipskathekat at yahoo dot co dot uk"> - 2013-12-25 09:07 +0000
Re: c "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-25 20:41 +1100
[EOD] Re: c Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> - 2013-12-25 11:15 +0100
Re: [EOD] Re: c "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-25 23:29 +1100
Re: [EOD] Re: c The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-25 12:48 +0000
Re: c "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-25 17:46 +1100
Re: c Graham Hobbs <ghobbs@cdpwise.net> - 2013-12-25 09:24 -0500
Re: c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 22:51 -0500
Re: c Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-30 08:03 -0500
Re: c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-30 12:40 -0500
Re: c Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-30 12:46 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-22 22:48 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-23 17:38 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-23 07:57 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-24 10:11 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-23 19:59 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-24 12:14 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:02 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-30 15:40 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-12-22 20:48 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 22:46 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-30 14:54 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:06 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-30 15:21 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-30 08:04 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-30 12:32 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-30 12:47 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-31 08:23 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Doug Miller <doug_at_milmac_dot_com@example.com> - 2013-12-30 19:45 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Ricardo Palomaes <rpmdisguise-java@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-30 19:20 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-30 18:34 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-30 14:27 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Marcel Müller <news.5.maazl@spamgourmet.org> - 2013-12-22 22:26 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:17 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Marcel Müller <news.5.maazl@spamgourmet.org> - 2013-12-31 11:12 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-03 21:35 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Marcel Müller <news.5.maazl@spamgourmet.org> - 2014-01-06 22:19 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-07 23:33 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-01-08 00:37 -0600
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-30 17:03 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Marcel Müller <news.5.maazl@spamgourmet.org> - 2013-12-31 15:30 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-02 03:57 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-02 21:00 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 01:34 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-03 21:56 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-04 01:15 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-04 14:45 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-05 03:59 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-05 15:51 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-05 23:53 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-05 20:00 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-01-03 15:38 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-01-03 15:41 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-03 12:27 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 18:49 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-01-03 15:39 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2013-12-22 16:11 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:08 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-30 17:36 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-30 22:13 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-30 22:09 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-31 11:30 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-12-31 08:11 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-01-01 14:20 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 22:05 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2014-01-02 14:48 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 21:57 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-02 04:04 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-02 20:39 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 09:10 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2014-01-03 20:10 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 18:34 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2014-01-04 07:02 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-01-04 14:12 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-04 13:53 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Jukka Lahtinen <jtfjdehf@hotmail.com.invalid> - 2014-01-08 11:48 +0200
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-08 14:27 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-04 17:17 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 21:54 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-02 04:09 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-02 20:54 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 09:18 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-03 16:45 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-23 13:25 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:27 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-30 14:38 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-12-30 09:36 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-31 01:26 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 22:23 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 22:19 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-01-02 12:36 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2014-01-02 09:36 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-01-02 21:06 +0100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-01-03 14:48 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-02 20:59 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-02 21:07 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-02 21:10 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-31 09:44 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2013-12-23 07:22 -0600
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-29 23:20 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-25 13:56 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. jebblue <n@n.nnn> - 2013-12-31 10:52 -0600
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Evan Platt <evan@theobvious.espphotography.com.invalid> - 2013-12-31 11:50 -0800
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-31 17:54 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. jebblue <n@n.nnn> - 2013-12-31 19:33 -0600
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-02 17:37 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-01 21:46 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2014-01-02 19:34 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-02 10:02 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2014-01-02 23:09 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-02 12:22 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2014-01-03 20:06 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-03 09:17 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2014-01-04 00:41 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2014-01-03 06:41 -0600
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-01-03 14:56 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 12:12 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-03 19:30 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 16:04 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-03 22:30 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-05 23:44 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-03 16:28 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-03 16:08 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 16:22 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 00:29 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-03 09:08 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 10:18 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-03 15:24 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 17:10 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-04 10:02 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-04 16:02 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-04 17:27 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-04 12:46 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-01-04 19:51 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-04 19:24 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-04 14:08 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-03 16:39 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-02 20:43 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2014-01-03 20:19 +1100
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-03 09:23 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 11:34 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-01-03 15:58 +0000
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-03 16:01 -0500
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2014-01-03 17:44 -0400
Re: ORMs comparisons/complaints. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-01-03 15:43 -0500
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| From | Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 11:05 -0800 |
| Subject | ORMs comparisons/complaints. |
| Message-ID | <%JGtu.29103$Wm1.26832@fx17.iad> |
Hey everyone,
This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php.
I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various ORMs,
both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch systems to
there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve
problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the core
libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core
business code.
I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if they've
been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they use.
I've had experience with the following Java ORMs:
* Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance)
* Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around 2006)
* Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-)
And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after Hibernate,
including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features.
So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what did you
like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a flame war,
so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which used them.
I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off applications to
complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems.
Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of changes
with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc...
Thanks for your consideration,
Daniel.
[toc] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 14:46 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <52b7417f$0$297$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #27043 |
On 12/22/2013 2:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
> This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php.
>
> I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various ORMs,
> both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch systems to
> there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve
> problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the core
> libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core
> business code.
>
> I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if they've
> been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they use.
>
> I've had experience with the following Java ORMs:
> * Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance)
> * Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around 2006)
> * Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-)
>
> And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after Hibernate,
> including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features.
>
>
> So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what did you
> like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a flame war,
> so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which used them.
>
> I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off applications to
> complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems.
>
> Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of changes
> with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc...
My experience is that ORM is good for cases where all of the
following apply:
- changes of single rows or simple queries
- database is designed for ORM or are relative simple
ORM is obviously not intended for changing large number of rows
(bulk operations).
For very complex queries one end up working around limitations
in the QL to achieve what is easy to do in SQL.
Old legacy databases with a bad design is very difficult to
map to ORM and the result often perform very poorly.
ORM's used:
Java - entity EJB's, Hibernate, JPA
.NET - NHibernate, LINQ to SQL, EF
Non ORM used:
Java - JDBC
.NET - ADO.NET
PHP - mysql, mysqli and PDO extensions
Preference:
Java - JPA (due to standard, features and ease of use)
.NET : NHibernate (due to features and ease of use)
Arne
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 15:17 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <l97hdc$o4u$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #27043 |
On 12/22/2013 2:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote: > Hey everyone, > > This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php. > > I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various ORMs, > both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch systems to > there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve > problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the core > libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core > business code. > > I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if they've > been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they use. > > I've had experience with the following Java ORMs: > * Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance) > * Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around 2006) > * Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-) > > And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after Hibernate, > including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features. > > > So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what did you > like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a flame war, > so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which used them. > > I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off applications to > complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems. > > Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of changes > with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc... > > Thanks for your consideration, > Daniel. Is there a PHP question in there? I don't see one... -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 15:38 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <52b74dbf$0$303$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #27045 |
On 12/22/2013 3:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 12/22/2013 2:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote: >> Hey everyone, >> >> This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php. >> >> I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various ORMs, >> both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch systems to >> there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve >> problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the core >> libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core >> business code. >> >> I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if they've >> been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they use. >> >> I've had experience with the following Java ORMs: >> * Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance) >> * Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around 2006) >> * Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-) >> >> And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after Hibernate, >> including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features. >> >> >> So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what did you >> like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a flame war, >> so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which used them. >> >> I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off applications to >> complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems. >> >> Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of changes >> with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc... > > Is there a PHP question in there? I don't see one... Doctrine is PHP. And the question is open ended so other PHP ORM's could be included in discussion. Arne
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 15:47 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <l97j48$1v5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #27047 |
On 12/22/2013 3:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > On 12/22/2013 3:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >> On 12/22/2013 2:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote: >>> Hey everyone, >>> >>> This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php. >>> >>> I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various ORMs, >>> both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch systems to >>> there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve >>> problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the core >>> libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core >>> business code. >>> >>> I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if they've >>> been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they use. >>> >>> I've had experience with the following Java ORMs: >>> * Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance) >>> * Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around 2006) >>> * Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-) >>> >>> And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after Hibernate, >>> including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features. >>> >>> >>> So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what did you >>> like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a flame war, >>> so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which used them. >>> >>> I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off applications to >>> complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems. >>> >>> Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of changes >>> with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc... >> >> Is there a PHP question in there? I don't see one... > > Doctrine is PHP. And the question is open ended so other PHP > ORM's could be included in discussion. > > Arne > > I still don't see a PHP question here. I see some product questions - which would be better suited in a newsgroup for those applications. Just because something uses PHP does not mean it is appropriate for a PHP language newsgroup. But I know some people don't believe in segregation of newsgroups and think anything should be able to be asked in any newsgroup. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 16:04 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <52b753c1$0$303$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #27048 |
On 12/22/2013 3:47 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 12/22/2013 3:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 12/22/2013 3:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>> On 12/22/2013 2:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote: >>>> Hey everyone, >>>> >>>> This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php. >>>> >>>> I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various ORMs, >>>> both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch systems to >>>> there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve >>>> problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the core >>>> libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core >>>> business code. >>>> >>>> I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if they've >>>> been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they use. >>>> >>>> I've had experience with the following Java ORMs: >>>> * Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance) >>>> * Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around 2006) >>>> * Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-) >>>> >>>> And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after Hibernate, >>>> including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features. >>>> >>>> >>>> So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what did >>>> you >>>> like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a flame war, >>>> so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which used >>>> them. >>>> >>>> I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off applications to >>>> complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems. >>>> >>>> Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of >>>> changes >>>> with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc... >>> >>> Is there a PHP question in there? I don't see one... >> >> Doctrine is PHP. And the question is open ended so other PHP >> ORM's could be included in discussion. > > I still don't see a PHP question here. I see some product questions - > which would be better suited in a newsgroup for those applications. > > Just because something uses PHP does not mean it is appropriate for a > PHP language newsgroup. > > But I know some people don't believe in segregation of newsgroups and > think anything should be able to be asked in any newsgroup. ORM's are not applications. They are libraries. And since it is question asking for comparison, then a group for a specific library is not a good choice. Instead a group with people with experience and interest in different ways of database access from PHP is needed. comp.lang.php does not seem that far fetched. Obviously comp.lang.php.databaseaccess or comp.lang.php.databaseaccess.orm would be even better if such exists. Arne
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 16:09 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <l97kdi$ah2$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #27049 |
On 12/22/2013 4:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > On 12/22/2013 3:47 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >> On 12/22/2013 3:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> On 12/22/2013 3:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>> On 12/22/2013 2:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote: >>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>> >>>>> This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php. >>>>> >>>>> I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various ORMs, >>>>> both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch systems to >>>>> there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve >>>>> problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the core >>>>> libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core >>>>> business code. >>>>> >>>>> I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if >>>>> they've >>>>> been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they use. >>>>> >>>>> I've had experience with the following Java ORMs: >>>>> * Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance) >>>>> * Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around 2006) >>>>> * Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-) >>>>> >>>>> And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after Hibernate, >>>>> including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what did >>>>> you >>>>> like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a flame >>>>> war, >>>>> so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which used >>>>> them. >>>>> >>>>> I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off applications to >>>>> complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems. >>>>> >>>>> Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of >>>>> changes >>>>> with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc... >>>> >>>> Is there a PHP question in there? I don't see one... >>> >>> Doctrine is PHP. And the question is open ended so other PHP >>> ORM's could be included in discussion. >> >> I still don't see a PHP question here. I see some product questions - >> which would be better suited in a newsgroup for those applications. >> >> Just because something uses PHP does not mean it is appropriate for a >> PHP language newsgroup. >> >> But I know some people don't believe in segregation of newsgroups and >> think anything should be able to be asked in any newsgroup. > > ORM's are not applications. They are libraries. > > And since it is question asking for comparison, then a group > for a specific library is not a good choice. > > Instead a group with people with experience and interest in > different ways of database access from PHP is needed. > > comp.lang.php does not seem that far fetched. > > Obviously comp.lang.php.databaseaccess or comp.lang.php.databaseaccess.orm > would be even better if such exists. > > Arne > Yes, an ORM-related newsgroup would be more appropriate. There you have people who know the advantages and disadvantages of various ORM's. Few, if any, in the language-related newsgroups will have used an ORM, and if they have, they have very limited experience. But as I said - some people think any question can be asked in any newsgroup, no matter how thin the connection. But others prefer to direct people to appropriate newsgroups, where they will get GOOD answers from knowledgeable people. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 16:20 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <52b757a6$0$303$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> |
| In reply to | #27050 |
On 12/22/2013 4:09 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 12/22/2013 4:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 12/22/2013 3:47 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>> On 12/22/2013 3:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> On 12/22/2013 3:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>>> On 12/22/2013 2:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote: >>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various ORMs, >>>>>> both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch systems to >>>>>> there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve >>>>>> problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the core >>>>>> libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core >>>>>> business code. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if >>>>>> they've >>>>>> been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they use. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've had experience with the following Java ORMs: >>>>>> * Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance) >>>>>> * Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around >>>>>> 2006) >>>>>> * Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after >>>>>> Hibernate, >>>>>> including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what did >>>>>> you >>>>>> like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a flame >>>>>> war, >>>>>> so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which used >>>>>> them. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off applications to >>>>>> complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of >>>>>> changes >>>>>> with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc... >>>>> >>>>> Is there a PHP question in there? I don't see one... >>>> >>>> Doctrine is PHP. And the question is open ended so other PHP >>>> ORM's could be included in discussion. >>> >>> I still don't see a PHP question here. I see some product questions - >>> which would be better suited in a newsgroup for those applications. >>> >>> Just because something uses PHP does not mean it is appropriate for a >>> PHP language newsgroup. >>> >>> But I know some people don't believe in segregation of newsgroups and >>> think anything should be able to be asked in any newsgroup. >> >> ORM's are not applications. They are libraries. >> >> And since it is question asking for comparison, then a group >> for a specific library is not a good choice. >> >> Instead a group with people with experience and interest in >> different ways of database access from PHP is needed. >> >> comp.lang.php does not seem that far fetched. >> >> Obviously comp.lang.php.databaseaccess or >> comp.lang.php.databaseaccess.orm >> would be even better if such exists. > > Yes, an ORM-related newsgroup would be more appropriate. There you have > people who know the advantages and disadvantages of various ORM's. ORM's are language specific. So it would need to be a PHP ORM group to cover PHP. Does one exist? > Few, if any, in the language-related newsgroups will have used an ORM, > and if they have, they have very limited experience. That depends on the language. In languages like Java and C# it would be >90% that have used an ORM. It is probably much less in PHP as ORM's are not as widely used in the PHP world. But I suspect that Daniel even may be interested in knowing more about why it is so. Arne
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 16:34 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <l97lta$j20$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #27051 |
On 12/22/2013 4:20 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > On 12/22/2013 4:09 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >> On 12/22/2013 4:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> On 12/22/2013 3:47 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>> On 12/22/2013 3:38 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>> On 12/22/2013 3:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>>>> On 12/22/2013 2:05 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote: >>>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is cross-posted to cl.java.programmer and cl.php. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've been doing some thinking about my experiences with various >>>>>>> ORMs, >>>>>>> both positive and negative. I find that I often stretch systems to >>>>>>> there limits, and end up doing a lot of meta-programming to solve >>>>>>> problems that I've always felt should have been solved by the core >>>>>>> libraries. Mostly to follow DRY and KISS principals in the core >>>>>>> business code. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm curious if others' have found the same things I have, or if >>>>>>> they've >>>>>>> been satisfied doing things other ways, and if so what ORMs they >>>>>>> use. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've had experience with the following Java ORMs: >>>>>>> * Hibernate (version 3, using Annotations for instance) >>>>>>> * Ibatis (many years ago, don't remember the version. around >>>>>>> 2006) >>>>>>> * Straight JDBC. Not exactly an ORM :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And then one non-Java ORM: Doctrine, which is modeled after >>>>>>> Hibernate, >>>>>>> including most of its flaws, but missing some of its features. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, my question to the groups, what ORMs have you used, and what did >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> like and hate about each of them? I'm not trying to start a flame >>>>>>> war, >>>>>>> so please keep it to personal experiences with projects which used >>>>>>> them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm interested in use-cases from simple small one-off >>>>>>> applications to >>>>>>> complex enterprise-level systems, and highly-scalable systems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please include details like "it's easier to maintain <x> type of >>>>>>> changes >>>>>>> with our approach, but <y> is very difficult" etc... >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there a PHP question in there? I don't see one... >>>>> >>>>> Doctrine is PHP. And the question is open ended so other PHP >>>>> ORM's could be included in discussion. >>>> >>>> I still don't see a PHP question here. I see some product questions - >>>> which would be better suited in a newsgroup for those applications. >>>> >>>> Just because something uses PHP does not mean it is appropriate for a >>>> PHP language newsgroup. >>>> >>>> But I know some people don't believe in segregation of newsgroups and >>>> think anything should be able to be asked in any newsgroup. >>> >>> ORM's are not applications. They are libraries. >>> >>> And since it is question asking for comparison, then a group >>> for a specific library is not a good choice. >>> >>> Instead a group with people with experience and interest in >>> different ways of database access from PHP is needed. >>> >>> comp.lang.php does not seem that far fetched. >>> >>> Obviously comp.lang.php.databaseaccess or >>> comp.lang.php.databaseaccess.orm >>> would be even better if such exists. >> >> Yes, an ORM-related newsgroup would be more appropriate. There you have >> people who know the advantages and disadvantages of various ORM's. > > ORM's are language specific. So it would need to be a PHP ORM group > to cover PHP. > > Does one exist? > >> Few, if any, in the language-related newsgroups will have used an ORM, >> and if they have, they have very limited experience. > > That depends on the language. > > In languages like Java and C# it would be >90% that have used an ORM. > > It is probably much less in PHP as ORM's are not as widely used > in the PHP world. > > But I suspect that Daniel even may be interested in knowing more > about why it is so. > > Arne > If you want, you can talk all you want about it in c.l.j.p. But this does not belong in c.l.p. FUP set to c.l.j.p only. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | Christoph Michael Becker <cmbecker69@arcor.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 22:45 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <52b75d7a$0$9517$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net> |
| In reply to | #27053 |
Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 12/22/2013 4:20 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 12/22/2013 4:09 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>> Few, if any, in the language-related newsgroups will have used an ORM, >>> and if they have, they have very limited experience. That *might* be true for compl.lang.php. However, ... >> That depends on the language. >> >> In languages like Java and C# it would be >90% that have used an ORM. >> >> It is probably much less in PHP as ORM's are not as widely used >> in the PHP world. >> >> But I suspect that Daniel even may be interested in knowing more >> about why it is so. >> > If you want, you can talk all you want about it in c.l.j.p. But this > does not belong in c.l.p. ... I can't see why this topic doesn't belong to comp.lang.php. > FUP set to c.l.j.p only. FUP ignored. -- Christoph M. Becker
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| From | markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 17:33 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <l983ti$tln$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #27054 |
On 12/22/2013 1:45 PM, Christoph Michael Becker wrote: > >> FUP set to c.l.j.p only. > Jerry Stuckle wrote: > > FUP ignored. *eats popcorn*
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| From | "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-23 12:54 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <du2dnSyfhaGKBSrPnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #27053 |
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:l97lta$j20$1@dont-email.me... > If you want, you can talk all you want about it in c.l.j.p. But this does > not belong in c.l.p. > > FUP set to c.l.j.p only. Jerry, could you please post a copy of the certificate you received when you were appointed the owner of c.l.p? Either that or the "Resident Troll Award" would be suitable. -- And loving it, -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct) _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-22 22:34 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <l98av6$stk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #27058 |
On 12/22/2013 8:54 PM, Qu0ll wrote: > "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:l97lta$j20$1@dont-email.me... > >> If you want, you can talk all you want about it in c.l.j.p. But this >> does not belong in c.l.p. >> >> FUP set to c.l.j.p only. > > Jerry, could you please post a copy of the certificate you received when > you were appointed the owner of c.l.p? Either that or the "Resident > Troll Award" would be suitable. > > -- > And loving it, > > -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct) > _________________________________________________ > Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com > [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] Qu0ll, Could you please show where you EVER have posted in comp.lang.php? We have a good group here. Don't ruin it by making off-topic posts. If you what to see what's appropriate, please refer to the charger for the newsgroup. This is comp.LANG.php, not comp.ORM.php. Fupped to c.l.j.p. for the TROLL's benefit. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | Wanja Gayk <brixomatic@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-24 12:28 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.2d238e1f35992a877@202.177.16.121> |
| In reply to | #27059 |
In article <l98av6$stk$1@dont-email.me>, Jerry Stuckle (jstucklex@attglobal.net) says... > We have a good group here. Don't ruin it by making off-topic posts. So if you'll stop ruining other newsgroups with off-topic posts and full quotes, we'd be grateful. This was about ORM-mapping in general and intentionally mentioned "non- Java ORM" - with the PHP newsgroup included, I hope you're able to count add 1 and 1 together and comprehend that this means PHP people were asked their opinion. Your "The author didnt' ask a PHP-Question" thread- takeover is off topic and I'd be grateful if you stopped this bullshit now and forever, thanks. F'up set to the newsgroup where you belong, scorefile adjusted, thank you. -- ..Alesi's problem was that the back of the car was jumping up and down dangerously - and I can assure you from having been teammate to Jean Alesi and knowing what kind of cars that he can pull up with, when Jean Alesi says that a car is dangerous - it is. [Jonathan Palmer] --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-24 08:49 -0500 |
| Subject | c |
| Message-ID | <l9c3e7$k9d$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #27069 |
On 12/24/2013 6:28 AM, the well known TROLL Wanja Gayk wrote: > In article <l98av6$stk$1@dont-email.me>, Jerry Stuckle > (jstucklex@attglobal.net) says... > >> We have a good group here. Don't ruin it by making off-topic posts. > > So if you'll stop ruining other newsgroups with off-topic posts and full > quotes, we'd be grateful. > > This was about ORM-mapping in general and intentionally mentioned "non- > Java ORM" - with the PHP newsgroup included, I hope you're able to count > add 1 and 1 together and comprehend that this means PHP people were > asked their opinion. Your "The author didnt' ask a PHP-Question" thread- > takeover is off topic and I'd be grateful if you stopped this bullshit > now and forever, thanks. > > F'up set to the newsgroup where you belong, scorefile adjusted, thank > you. > > > Ah, another well-known TROLL who thinks he knows what belongs in a newsgroup he never has even looked at. But then I see that's pretty normal for you, also. And like other trolls, you use a 'nym and free email address because you're terrified someone will recognize you. I understand - I would be, too, if I had your history. But let me see if I can make this so simple even a TROLL can understand it (probably not - TROLLS are too dense to understand much of anything). This is for questions about the PHP LANGUAGE, not PHP PRODUCTS. See the charter for this newsgroup. So stop the bullshit, TROLL. And fupped back to the TROLL newsgroup, where you belong. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 09:35 +1100 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <gv2dnR8Es8rNkSfPnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #27071 |
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:l9c3e7$k9d$1@dont-email.me... > Ah, another well-known TROLL who thinks he knows what belongs in a > newsgroup he never has even looked at. But then I see that's pretty > normal for you, also. And like other trolls, you use a 'nym and free > email address because you're terrified someone will recognize you. I > understand - I would be, too, if I had your history. So let me get it straight then Jez: 1. Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. 2. You own c.l.p and you alone decides who posts there and what topics are acceptable. 3. Anyone who uses Gmail or "free" email services is hiding something and is a troll. 4. Anyone who chooses not to use their real name is hiding something and is a troll. 5. You have no issue deciding where follow-ups should go because you know best and you are more important than anyone else. So have I got all that right? Anything else? Here's something you need to understand yourself: YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. Just because *you* think something is OT or you don't like their nick or the fact that they use Gmail does not give you the right to evict them from *your* newsgroup. The net is FREE as in free-speech and in that there are no "newsgroup cops" or whatever the hell you think you are. Of course you are also FREE to express your *opinion*, but you do not in any way, shape or form have any right to decide who posts or what is posted. Why? Because... YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. May I remind you that this all started because I called you out on your narcissist complex and troll-ish behaviour where you attempted to force the entire thread into a newsgroup that *you* deemed more appropriate. Where do you get off doing that? As I said a while ago, just post your certificate of ownership of c.l.p and all this can be put to bed. Don't have one? Then stop it behaving as though you do. BTW: YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. -- And loving it, -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct) _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
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| From | Graham Hobbs <ghobbs@cdpwise.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-24 19:35 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <j1akb9d0q74ruod75e30fca2f9ronqpqo7@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #27073 |
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 09:35:45 +1100, "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> wrote: >"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:l9c3e7$k9d$1@dont-email.me... > >> Ah, another well-known TROLL who thinks he knows what belongs in a >> newsgroup he never has even looked at. But then I see that's pretty >> normal for you, also. And like other trolls, you use a 'nym and free >> email address because you're terrified someone will recognize you. I >> understand - I would be, too, if I had your history. > >So let me get it straight then Jez: > >1. Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. >2. You own c.l.p and you alone decides who posts there and what topics are >acceptable. >3. Anyone who uses Gmail or "free" email services is hiding something and is >a troll. >4. Anyone who chooses not to use their real name is hiding something and is >a troll. >5. You have no issue deciding where follow-ups should go because you know >best and you are more important than anyone else. > >So have I got all that right? Anything else? > >Here's something you need to understand yourself: > >YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. > >Just because *you* think something is OT or you don't like their nick or the >fact that they use Gmail does not give you the right to evict them from >*your* newsgroup. The net is FREE as in free-speech and in that there are >no "newsgroup cops" or whatever the hell you think you are. > >Of course you are also FREE to express your *opinion*, but you do not in any >way, shape or form have any right to decide who posts or what is posted. > >Why? Because... > >YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. > >May I remind you that this all started because I called you out on your >narcissist complex and troll-ish behaviour where you attempted to force the >entire thread into a newsgroup that *you* deemed more appropriate. Where do >you get off doing that? > >As I said a while ago, just post your certificate of ownership of c.l.p and >all this can be put to bed. Don't have one? Then stop it behaving as >though you do. > >BTW: > >YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. --- Hello qu0ll, Just browsing a couple of c.l.p threads I find the likes of Michael Vilain, Jerry Stuckle, Christof Michael Becker, Denis McMahon, Tim Streater, others .. you are simply 'Queue you zero el el'. Is there a reason you don't use your real name? Graham Hobbs
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 00:08 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <l9dp7m$4bm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #27074 |
On 12/24/2013 7:35 PM, Graham Hobbs wrote: > On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 09:35:45 +1100, "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:l9c3e7$k9d$1@dont-email.me... >> >>> Ah, another well-known TROLL who thinks he knows what belongs in a >>> newsgroup he never has even looked at. But then I see that's pretty >>> normal for you, also. And like other trolls, you use a 'nym and free >>> email address because you're terrified someone will recognize you. I >>> understand - I would be, too, if I had your history. >> >> So let me get it straight then Jez: >> >> 1. Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. >> 2. You own c.l.p and you alone decides who posts there and what topics are >> acceptable. >> 3. Anyone who uses Gmail or "free" email services is hiding something and is >> a troll. >> 4. Anyone who chooses not to use their real name is hiding something and is >> a troll. >> 5. You have no issue deciding where follow-ups should go because you know >> best and you are more important than anyone else. >> >> So have I got all that right? Anything else? >> >> Here's something you need to understand yourself: >> >> YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. >> >> Just because *you* think something is OT or you don't like their nick or the >> fact that they use Gmail does not give you the right to evict them from >> *your* newsgroup. The net is FREE as in free-speech and in that there are >> no "newsgroup cops" or whatever the hell you think you are. >> >> Of course you are also FREE to express your *opinion*, but you do not in any >> way, shape or form have any right to decide who posts or what is posted. >> >> Why? Because... >> >> YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. >> >> May I remind you that this all started because I called you out on your >> narcissist complex and troll-ish behaviour where you attempted to force the >> entire thread into a newsgroup that *you* deemed more appropriate. Where do >> you get off doing that? >> >> As I said a while ago, just post your certificate of ownership of c.l.p and >> all this can be put to bed. Don't have one? Then stop it behaving as >> though you do. >> >> BTW: >> >> YOU DO NOT OWN THE INTERNET AND YOU DO NOT OWN THE NEWSGROUP. > --- > Hello qu0ll, > > Just browsing a couple of c.l.p threads I find the likes of Michael > Vilain, Jerry Stuckle, Christof Michael Becker, Denis McMahon, Tim > Streater, others .. you are simply 'Queue you zero el el'. > > Is there a reason you don't use your real name? > > Graham Hobbs > Graham, haven't you learned by now? Trolls NEVER use their real names. They're too chicken to let anyone know who they really are. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle JDS Computer Training Corp. jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | lipska the kat <"lipskathekat at yahoo dot co dot uk"> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 09:07 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <tsSdnflq-emnPSfPnZ2dnUVZ7tOdnZ2d@bt.com> |
| In reply to | #27075 |
On 25/12/13 05:08, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > On 12/24/2013 7:35 PM, Graham Hobbs wrote: >> On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 09:35:45 +1100, "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:l9c3e7$k9d$1@dont-email.me... >>> >>>> Ah, another well-known TROLL who thinks he knows what belongs in a >>>> newsgroup he never has even looked at. <snip> > Graham, haven't you learned by now? Trolls NEVER use their real names. > They're too chicken to let anyone know who they really are. > This is absolute nonsense. I have no idea who Qu0ll is, I don't even know if we have disagreed in the past, however, given her/his/its past contribution to this group he/she/it is certainly not a troll. The one doing the trolling here is you "Jerry Stuckle" ... and as for names, people have been using pseudonyms on Usenet for as long as Usenet has been here so the whole 'real name' argument is just a load more bollocks. Besides, I'm more than happy to hide my real identity from nutters like you ... have you ever heard of an 'internet footprint'? I judge people by the value of their contributions, not their names so AFAIAC "Jerry Stuckle" (you're kidding right) you can bugger off back to c.l.p. You won't be missed. -- Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer, treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net
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| From | "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-12-25 20:41 +1100 |
| Subject | Re: c |
| Message-ID | <7YWdnVHsrJM_NSfPnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #27077 |
"lipska the kat" wrote in message news:tsSdnflq-emnPSfPnZ2dnUVZ7tOdnZ2d@bt.com... >>> "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:l9c3e7$k9d$1@dont-email.me... >>> >>>> Ah, another well-known TROLL who thinks he knows what belongs in a >>>> newsgroup he never has even looked at. > > <snip> > >> Graham, haven't you learned by now? Trolls NEVER use their real names. > > They're too chicken to let anyone know who they really are. >> > > This is absolute nonsense. > > I have no idea who Qu0ll is, I don't even know if we have disagreed in the > past, however, given her/his/its past contribution to this group he/she/it > is certainly not a troll. > > The one doing the trolling here is you "Jerry Stuckle" ... and as for > names, people have been using pseudonyms on Usenet for as long as Usenet > has been here so the whole 'real name' argument is just a load more > bollocks. Besides, I'm more than happy to hide my real identity from > nutters like you ... have you ever heard of an 'internet footprint'? > > I judge people by the value of their contributions, not their names so > AFAIAC "Jerry Stuckle" (you're kidding right) you can bugger off back to > c.l.p. You won't be missed. I took the liberty of forwarding your reply lipska to c.l.p because Troll Jerry probably never ventures outside of "his" newsgroup. What you say is absolutely correct (except the part where we possibly haven't disagreed!). I wouldn't mind being labelled a "troll" if I actually engaged in trollish behaviour. But objecting to a self-appointed "newsgroup cop" who attempts to hijack threads and shove them into the groups *he* thinks they belong is most definitely *not* trollish. In fact, it's *anti* trollish. His whinging about free email addresses, nick names, no previous posts etc. is nothing but a diversion from his real agenda of censoring c.l.p so that only people *he* approves of and only subjects *he* approves of can be posted there. As I have said many times now, there is always (at least) one such self-appointed "cop" in every group. Most would call them trolls. To him (and them) I simply ROFL. -- And loving it, -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct) _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]
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