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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #24962 > unrolled thread

Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability

Started byMartin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
First post2013-08-14 00:20 +0000
Last post2013-08-16 20:50 +1000
Articles 20 on this page of 80 — 12 participants

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Contents

  Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-08-14 00:20 +0000
    Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-13 20:36 -0400
      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-13 20:41 -0400
    Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arivald <NOSPAMarivald@interia.pl> - 2013-08-14 08:58 +0200
      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-08-14 11:18 +0200
      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-30 13:15 -0500
      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-12-30 10:17 -0800
        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-30 15:08 -0500
        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-31 08:34 +1100
          Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-30 17:56 -0500
            Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-12-31 10:06 +1100
              Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-30 18:16 -0500
                Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2013-12-30 17:38 -0600
                  Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-12-30 18:53 -0500
                  Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-12-31 02:40 +0100
          Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-12-31 02:37 +0100
    Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-08-14 11:21 +0200
      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-08-14 19:53 +0000
        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-08-14 18:13 -0700
          Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-08-15 21:04 +0000
    Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-15 08:18 +1000
      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-15 06:46 +0800
        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-15 09:05 +1000
          Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-16 16:58 +0800
            Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-16 21:56 -0400
        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-14 19:28 -0400
          Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-15 09:48 +1000
            Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-16 17:20 +0800
              Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-16 21:55 -0400
                Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-17 11:26 +0800
                  Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-18 21:33 -0400
                    Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-19 19:44 +1000
                      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-19 18:17 +0800
                        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-19 10:52 -0400
                      [OT] Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-08-19 08:31 -0400
                        Re: [OT] Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-23 17:13 +1000
                      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-19 10:48 -0400
                    Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-19 17:56 +0800
                      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-19 10:25 -0400
          Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-16 17:06 +0800
            Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-16 19:29 +1000
              Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-16 17:57 +0800
                Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-16 21:16 +1000
                  Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-08-16 18:23 -0300
                    Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-08-16 23:22 +0000
                      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-17 10:24 +1000
                        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-17 08:55 +0800
                          Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-08-16 18:24 -0700
                        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-08-16 22:59 -0300
                          Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-18 21:36 -0400
                            Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-19 18:00 +0800
                              Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-08-19 13:11 +0100
                              Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-19 10:32 -0400
                        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-16 22:09 -0400
                        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-08-17 11:37 +0000
              Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-16 22:07 -0400
            Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-16 22:02 -0400
        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-08-15 21:13 +0000
          Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-16 17:13 +0800
            Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-08-16 20:01 +0000
      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-14 18:51 -0400
        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-15 09:07 +1000
          Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-14 19:26 -0400
            Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-15 09:53 +1000
              Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-08-14 18:06 -0700
                Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-15 15:10 +1000
                  Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-15 20:40 -0400
              Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-14 21:23 -0400
                Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-15 15:23 +1000
                  Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-15 20:41 -0400
                    Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-16 19:07 +1000
                  Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-15 20:45 -0400
                    Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-15 20:49 -0400
                      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-16 19:11 +1000
                        Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-16 22:13 -0400
                      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-16 17:26 +0800
                    Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-16 19:09 +1000
                      Re: Developing for AWT/Swing and Android portability Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-16 22:14 -0400
          Please don't discuss the outside world Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-16 17:22 +0800
            Re: Please don't discuss the outside world "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-08-16 20:50 +1000

Page 4 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4]


#24984

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2013-08-14 18:51 -0400
Message-ID<520c09d7$0$304$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#24979
On 8/14/2013 6:18 PM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "Martin Gregorie"  wrote in message news:kueih9$tfu$1@dont-email.me...
>
>> Are there any decent compatibility packages that would let a Java
>> graphical application compile and run on both Linux and Android
>> platforms?
>>
>> If not, are there any decent Android emulators that can be used to
>> develop Android graphical apps under Linux?
>
> For what it's worth, *all* of my future UI/front-end code written in
> Java will be using JavaFX.  If you haven't checked it out yet then I
> strongly suggest you do.  It's actually quite awesome and if you have a
> look at the session titles from this year's impending Java One and if
> you follow the buzz in the JavaFX developer community you will be
> convinced that it's only a matter of time until JavaFX will run on
> Windows, MacOS, Linux, ARM and... iOS and Android in the very near future.
>
> Swing/AWT is officially deprecated and will slowly shrivel and die.

I would not consider Swing deprecated until Java 8 gets officially
released which will be another half year.

> JavaFX is the way ahead and could easily become the *best*
> cross-platform SDK in *any* language.

JavaFX is very impressive.

Arne

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#24987

From"Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
Date2013-08-15 09:07 +1000
Message-ID<RYadnSebvdZokJHPnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
In reply to#24984
"Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message 
news:520c09d7$0$304$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

>> Swing/AWT is officially deprecated and will slowly shrivel and die.
>
> I would not consider Swing deprecated until Java 8 gets officially
> released which will be another half year.

Oracle begs to differ.

>> JavaFX is the way ahead and could easily become the *best*
>> cross-platform SDK in *any* language.
>
> JavaFX is very impressive.

Indeed.  Far more impressive than most people actually realise and with JFX8 
coming soon we will have 3D and other truly awesome features.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] 

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#24988

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2013-08-14 19:26 -0400
Message-ID<520c120a$0$304$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#24987
On 8/14/2013 7:07 PM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message
> news:520c09d7$0$304$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>>> Swing/AWT is officially deprecated and will slowly shrivel and die.
>>
>> I would not consider Swing deprecated until Java 8 gets officially
>> released which will be another half year.
>
> Oracle begs to differ.

Really.

Swing is still part of the Java Tutorial.

And the Swing classes are not marked as deprecated in the Java Docs (and
JavaFX is not even in there yet).

Arne

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#24991

From"Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
Date2013-08-15 09:53 +1000
Message-ID<b-adnYtUD64FhZHPnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
In reply to#24988
"Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message 
news:520c120a$0$304$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

> Really.
>
> Swing is still part of the Java Tutorial.
>
> And the Swing classes are not marked as deprecated in the Java Docs (and
> JavaFX is not even in there yet).

Everything you say is correct Arne but several Oracle representatives have 
either blogged or tweeted or been involved in forum discussions where it has 
been made abundantly clear that no further development on Swing will occur 
and there is significant doubt as to whether any bugs will be addressed 
either.

People can still learn about Swing in the tutorial because it is everywhere 
and will be in use in production systems for many years to come.  My point 
is that Swing/AWT/applets are not something that I would recommend as the 
choice for *new* development.  There has been no official deprecation in a 
"Java API" sense but all of Oracle's investment in Java UI technologies is 
in regard to JavaFX.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] 

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#24992

Frommarkspace <markspace@nospam.nospam>
Date2013-08-14 18:06 -0700
Message-ID<kuh9j2$3rk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#24991
On 8/14/2013 4:53 PM, Qu0ll wrote:

> Everything you say is correct Arne but several Oracle representatives
> have either blogged or tweeted or been involved in forum discussions
> where it has been made abundantly clear that no further development on
> Swing will occur and there is significant doubt as to whether any bugs
> will be addressed either.

Could you link to those?  I can Google myself of course but I'd like to 
see what you are looking at too.  I'm not doubting you, I seem to recall 
the same thing.  However I don't have anything ready to hand and I'd 
like to see those blogs again if I could.

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#24996

From"Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
Date2013-08-15 15:10 +1000
Message-ID<CMSdnUri8-qF_pHPnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
In reply to#24992
"markspace"  wrote in message news:kuh9j2$3rk$1@dont-email.me...

> Could you link to those?  I can Google myself of course but I'd like to 
> see what you are looking at too.  I'm not doubting you, I seem to recall 
> the same thing.  However I don't have anything ready to hand and I'd like 
> to see those blogs again if I could.

I haven't been keeping bookmarks or links to said posts etc. but I have 
certainly seen them and I am sure you can located many such references with 
your Google foo-ness.

I cannot point you to an "official" Oracle announcement on this matter but 
it is clear from the following facts that Swing is not something you should 
be considering for new projects:

1) Oracle (as far as I know) have not made any announcements about Swing's 
further development in a long, long time.
2) Oracle are announcing JavaFX development news on an almost daily basis.
3) Many, many Swing/AWT bugs languish in the bug database untouched for 
years.
4) I work a lot with Java 8 and, as far as I know but prefaced by the fact 
that I am not actually looking or interested, I have not heard of any Swing 
enhancements in this release.
5) JavaFX is considerably enhanced in Java 8.
6) Oracle are actively promoting JavaFX.
7) The JavaFX community is vibrant, active and passionate.
8) Swing will (almost certainly) will never run on mobiles and tablets 
whereas JavaFX definitely will (watch for Java One announcements in this 
area).
9) JavaFX can do things that Swing could never and will never do (even if 
you just look at the fact that JavaFX has a hardware accelerated pipeline).

There can be no doubt that Oracle has no interest in taking Swing any 
further but of course will continue to support it given that it is a 
critical and widely-used component of the JDK, especially for those with 
commercial contracts with Oracle.

Yes, Swing is not deprecated in the strict technical sense that we apply to 
elements of the Java API (as I have said) so perhaps "deprecated" is a poor 
choice of words but really, to all intents and purposes, it *is* deprecated.

I see no reason not to embrace JavaFX and leave Swing for maintenance only.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] 

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#25013

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2013-08-15 20:40 -0400
Message-ID<520d74f2$0$303$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#24996
On 8/15/2013 1:10 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "markspace"  wrote in message news:kuh9j2$3rk$1@dont-email.me...
>
>> Could you link to those?  I can Google myself of course but I'd like
>> to see what you are looking at too.  I'm not doubting you, I seem to
>> recall the same thing.  However I don't have anything ready to hand
>> and I'd like to see those blogs again if I could.
>
> I haven't been keeping bookmarks or links to said posts etc. but I have
> certainly seen them and I am sure you can located many such references
> with your Google foo-ness.
>
> I cannot point you to an "official" Oracle announcement on this matter
> but it is clear from the following facts that Swing is not something you
> should be considering for new projects:
>
> 1) Oracle (as far as I know) have not made any announcements about
> Swing's further development in a long, long time.
> 2) Oracle are announcing JavaFX development news on an almost daily basis.
> 3) Many, many Swing/AWT bugs languish in the bug database untouched for
> years.
> 4) I work a lot with Java 8 and, as far as I know but prefaced by the
> fact that I am not actually looking or interested, I have not heard of
> any Swing enhancements in this release.
> 5) JavaFX is considerably enhanced in Java 8.
> 6) Oracle are actively promoting JavaFX.
> 7) The JavaFX community is vibrant, active and passionate.
> 8) Swing will (almost certainly) will never run on mobiles and tablets
> whereas JavaFX definitely will (watch for Java One announcements in this
> area).
> 9) JavaFX can do things that Swing could never and will never do (even
> if you just look at the fact that JavaFX has a hardware accelerated
> pipeline).
>
> There can be no doubt that Oracle has no interest in taking Swing any
> further but of course will continue to support it given that it is a
> critical and widely-used component of the JDK, especially for those with
> commercial contracts with Oracle.

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javafx/overview/faq-1446554.html#6

<quote>
6. Is JavaFX replacing Swing as the new client UI library for Java SE?
Yes. However, Swing will remain part of the Java SE specification for 
the foreseeable future, and therefore included in the JRE. While we 
recommend developers to leverage JavaFX APIs as much as possible when 
building new applications, it is possible to extend a Swing application 
with JavaFX, allowing for a smoother transition.
</quote>

May be the most official statement.

Arne



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#24994

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2013-08-14 21:23 -0400
Message-ID<520c2d96$0$290$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#24991
On 8/14/2013 7:53 PM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message
> news:520c120a$0$304$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>> Really.
>>
>> Swing is still part of the Java Tutorial.
>>
>> And the Swing classes are not marked as deprecated in the Java Docs (and
>> JavaFX is not even in there yet).
>
> Everything you say is correct Arne but several Oracle representatives
> have either blogged or tweeted or been involved in forum discussions
> where it has been made abundantly clear that no further development on
> Swing will occur and there is significant doubt as to whether any bugs
> will be addressed either.

That is true.

They will not invest more in Swing.

But I believe there is a difference between stopping
investing in and deprecating.

There must be plenty of packages/classes in Java SE that has seen
little development for many years without them being in any way
deprecated.

> People can still learn about Swing in the tutorial because it is
> everywhere and will be in use in production systems for many years to
> come.  My point is that Swing/AWT/applets are not something that I would
> recommend as the choice for *new* development.  There has been no
> official deprecation in a "Java API" sense but all of Oracle's
> investment in Java UI technologies is in regard to JavaFX.

If I were to recommend something for cross-platform desktop
app, then I would recommend JavaFX.

I am not sure though that I would do the same for a
single-platform desktop app. JavaFX may be conceptually
as good as the alternatives, but it it is still far behind
in adoption, which impact the level of support available.

Arne

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#24997

From"Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
Date2013-08-15 15:23 +1000
Message-ID<kJGdnT7ZhutI-JHPnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
In reply to#24994
"Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message 
news:520c2d96$0$290$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

> That is true.
>
> They will not invest more in Swing.
>
> But I believe there is a difference between stopping
> investing in and deprecating.
>
> There must be plenty of packages/classes in Java SE that has seen
> little development for many years without them being in any way
> deprecated.

Arne, please see my reply to markspace that contains clarification of my 
usage of the term "deprecated".

> If I were to recommend something for cross-platform desktop
> app, then I would recommend JavaFX.
>
> I am not sure though that I would do the same for a
> single-platform desktop app. JavaFX may be conceptually
> as good as the alternatives, but it it is still far behind
> in adoption, which impact the level of support available.

Yes, it is absolutely true that Swing is everywhere and adoption of JavaFX 
is not at that level - yet.  But Oracle have told me that most of the large 
sites where JavaFX is being used are behind "corporate firewalls" and are 
not the sort of applications that can be publicised on the net or have demos 
made available to the general public.  There actually are quite of lot of 
corporations and individuals who are investing heavily in JavaFX right now.

Human resources with JavaFX skills maybe hard to find at the moment but that 
will certainly change too.  I for one am getting in now so that I can build 
my career on this technology.  And, after all, JavaFX is "just another Java 
API" these days; there are no new languages to learn (like there was with 
JavaFX 1.x and JavaFX Script) so it is not something that would appear 
foreign to any capable Java developer and is very easy to pick up.  Further, 
there are multitudes of technical resources, articles, blogs, forums, user 
groups on the net and, as I have said, many very passionate evangelists in 
this area.

For example, check out people like Gerrit Grunwald (@hansolo_) and Toni 
Epple (@monacotoni).  These guys are rock stars.  Carl Dea (@carldea) is 
awesome too.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] 

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#25014

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2013-08-15 20:41 -0400
Message-ID<520d7522$0$303$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#24997
On 8/15/2013 1:23 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message
> news:520c2d96$0$290$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>> That is true.
>>
>> They will not invest more in Swing.
>>
>> But I believe there is a difference between stopping
>> investing in and deprecating.
>>
>> There must be plenty of packages/classes in Java SE that has seen
>> little development for many years without them being in any way
>> deprecated.
>
> Arne, please see my reply to markspace that contains clarification of my
> usage of the term "deprecated".

But your usage is somewhat different from normal usage
in Java context.

Arne

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#25020

From"Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
Date2013-08-16 19:07 +1000
Message-ID<qv2dnT3Ma9FudpDPnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
In reply to#25014
"Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message 
news:520d7522$0$303$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

>> Arne, please see my reply to markspace that contains clarification of my
>> usage of the term "deprecated".
>
> But your usage is somewhat different from normal usage
> in Java context.

Acknowledged.  Loose at best.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] 

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#25015

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2013-08-15 20:45 -0400
Message-ID<520d7617$0$296$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#24997
On 8/15/2013 1:23 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message
> news:520c2d96$0$290$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>> If I were to recommend something for cross-platform desktop
>> app, then I would recommend JavaFX.
>>
>> I am not sure though that I would do the same for a
>> single-platform desktop app. JavaFX may be conceptually
>> as good as the alternatives, but it it is still far behind
>> in adoption, which impact the level of support available.
>
> Yes, it is absolutely true that Swing is everywhere and adoption of
> JavaFX is not at that level - yet.

The alternatives I was referring to are non-Java.

>                             But Oracle have told me that most of
> the large sites where JavaFX is being used are behind "corporate
> firewalls" and are not the sort of applications that can be publicised
> on the net or have demos made available to the general public.  There
> actually are quite of lot of corporations and individuals who are
> investing heavily in JavaFX right now.

"It is widely used, but the details are not public" is not that
convincing.

But even if more than half the companies doing desktop apps in
Java are switching from Swing to JavaFX, then it would still
not be many.

Arne




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#25016

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2013-08-15 20:49 -0400
Message-ID<520d7717$0$294$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#25015
On 8/15/2013 8:45 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 8/15/2013 1:23 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
>> "Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message
>> news:520c2d96$0$290$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>>> If I were to recommend something for cross-platform desktop
>>> app, then I would recommend JavaFX.
>>>
>>> I am not sure though that I would do the same for a
>>> single-platform desktop app. JavaFX may be conceptually
>>> as good as the alternatives, but it it is still far behind
>>> in adoption, which impact the level of support available.
>>
>> Yes, it is absolutely true that Swing is everywhere and adoption of
>> JavaFX is not at that level - yet.
>
> The alternatives I was referring to are non-Java.
>
>>                             But Oracle have told me that most of
>> the large sites where JavaFX is being used are behind "corporate
>> firewalls" and are not the sort of applications that can be publicised
>> on the net or have demos made available to the general public.  There
>> actually are quite of lot of corporations and individuals who are
>> investing heavily in JavaFX right now.
>
> "It is widely used, but the details are not public" is not that
> convincing.
>
> But even if more than half the companies doing desktop apps in
> Java are switching from Swing to JavaFX, then it would still
> not be many.

A search at dice.com finds:

* 2769 JSP jobs
* 423 Swing jobs
* 7 JavaFX jobs
* 940 WPF jobs
* 300 WinForms jobs
* 290 Cocoa jobs

Arne

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#25022

From"Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
Date2013-08-16 19:11 +1000
Message-ID<3-udnaEgw9VmcZDPnZ2dnUVZ_o6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
In reply to#25016
"Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message 
news:520d7717$0$294$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

> A search at dice.com finds:
>
> * 2769 JSP jobs
> * 423 Swing jobs
> * 7 JavaFX jobs
> * 940 WPF jobs
> * 300 WinForms jobs
> * 290 Cocoa jobs

I don't find this the slightest bit surprising.  GUI applications written in 
Java are far less prevalent than those written using other technologies. 
The vast majority of Java software is server oriented (my guess would be 
over 95%).

But that figure for Swing is not too shabby and similar figures could be 
achieved for JavaFX in a couple of years or so.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] 

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#25046

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2013-08-16 22:13 -0400
Message-ID<520edc54$0$299$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#25022
On 8/16/2013 5:11 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message
> news:520d7717$0$294$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>
>> A search at dice.com finds:
>>
>> * 2769 JSP jobs
>> * 423 Swing jobs
>> * 7 JavaFX jobs
>> * 940 WPF jobs
>> * 300 WinForms jobs
>> * 290 Cocoa jobs
>
> I don't find this the slightest bit surprising.  GUI applications
> written in Java are far less prevalent than those written using other
> technologies. The vast majority of Java software is server oriented (my
> guess would be over 95%).

That was my point.

> But that figure for Swing is not too shabby and similar figures could be
> achieved for JavaFX in a couple of years or so.

That would be my expectation as well.

And for multi platform support then JavaFX looks great.

But if you are in a Windows only env, then WPF is a bit
attractive.

Arne

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#25026

FromRichard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com>
Date2013-08-16 17:26 +0800
Message-ID<kukr7o$lmm$3@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#25016
On 8/16/2013 8:49 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 8/15/2013 8:45 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 8/15/2013 1:23 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
>>> "Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message
>>> news:520c2d96$0$290$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>>>> If I were to recommend something for cross-platform desktop
>>>> app, then I would recommend JavaFX.
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure though that I would do the same for a
>>>> single-platform desktop app. JavaFX may be conceptually
>>>> as good as the alternatives, but it it is still far behind
>>>> in adoption, which impact the level of support available.
>>>
>>> Yes, it is absolutely true that Swing is everywhere and adoption of
>>> JavaFX is not at that level - yet.
>>
>> The alternatives I was referring to are non-Java.
>>
>>>                             But Oracle have told me that most of
>>> the large sites where JavaFX is being used are behind "corporate
>>> firewalls" and are not the sort of applications that can be publicised
>>> on the net or have demos made available to the general public.  There
>>> actually are quite of lot of corporations and individuals who are
>>> investing heavily in JavaFX right now.
>>
>> "It is widely used, but the details are not public" is not that
>> convincing.
>>
>> But even if more than half the companies doing desktop apps in
>> Java are switching from Swing to JavaFX, then it would still
>> not be many.
>
> A search at dice.com finds:
>
> * 2769 JSP jobs
> * 423 Swing jobs
> * 7 JavaFX jobs
> * 940 WPF jobs
> * 300 WinForms jobs
> * 290 Cocoa jobs

No Apex, Application Express? Isn't that the other Strategic Direction 
for Oracle Web Apps?

>
> Arne
>
>

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#25021

From"Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
Date2013-08-16 19:09 +1000
Message-ID<UdOdnQJF1pL_cZDPnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
In reply to#25015
"Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message 
news:520d7617$0$296$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

> "It is widely used, but the details are not public" is not that
> convincing.
>
> But even if more than half the companies doing desktop apps in
> Java are switching from Swing to JavaFX, then it would still
> not be many.

I have to disagree with you on that point.  My impression (which I can in no 
way substantiate) is that there are many thousands of applications written 
in Swing in use in corporations and businesses around the world to this day.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] 

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#25047

FromArne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Date2013-08-16 22:14 -0400
Message-ID<520edc8b$0$299$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#25021
On 8/16/2013 5:09 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message
> news:520d7617$0$296$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>
>> "It is widely used, but the details are not public" is not that
>> convincing.
>>
>> But even if more than half the companies doing desktop apps in
>> Java are switching from Swing to JavaFX, then it would still
>> not be many.
>
> I have to disagree with you on that point.  My impression (which I can
> in no way substantiate) is that there are many thousands of applications
> written in Swing in use in corporations and businesses around the world
> to this day.

That sounds very plausible.

But I don't consider that to be many.

:-)

Arne

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#25025 — Please don't discuss the outside world

FromRichard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com>
Date2013-08-16 17:22 +0800
SubjectPlease don't discuss the outside world
Message-ID<kukr0v$lmm$2@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#24987
On 8/15/2013 7:07 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "Arne Vajhøj"  wrote in message
>>
>> JavaFX is very impressive.
>
> Indeed.  Far more impressive than most people actually realise and with
> JFX8 coming soon we will have 3D and other truly awesome features.

Wow 3D, awesome! Who'd have thunk it.
>
> --
> And loving it,
>
> -Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
> _________________________________________________
> Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
> [Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

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#25029 — Re: Please don't discuss the outside world

From"Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
Date2013-08-16 20:50 +1000
SubjectRe: Please don't discuss the outside world
Message-ID<bJednaoeHciZmZPPnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
In reply to#25025
"Richard Maher"  wrote in message news:kukr0v$lmm$2@speranza.aioe.org...

>> Indeed.  Far more impressive than most people actually realise and with
>> JFX8 coming soon we will have 3D and other truly awesome features.
>
> Wow 3D, awesome! Who'd have thunk it.

Sarcasm noted and I agree that things have progressed a bit OT but I have to 
say that I don't get the subtle humour I assume is intended in the cryptic 
thread rename.

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] 

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