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Java SE and Java EE

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  Java SE and Java EE bob smith <bob@coolfone.net63.net> - 2014-06-03 22:09 -0700
    Re: Java SE and Java EE markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2014-06-03 23:58 -0700
      Re: Java SE and Java EE "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2014-06-04 19:09 +1000
        Re: Java SE and Java EE markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2014-06-04 09:40 -0700
          Re: Java SE and Java EE Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-06-04 21:29 -0400
            Re: Java SE and Java EE markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2014-06-04 20:10 -0700
              Re: Java SE and Java EE Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-06-05 17:37 +0000
                Re: Java SE and Java EE Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-06-05 19:11 -0400
    Re: Java SE and Java EE Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-06-04 11:56 +0200
    Re: Java SE and Java EE Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-06-04 21:41 -0400

#28650 — Java SE and Java EE

Why is Java divided into SE and EE?

Why not have just one Java?

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#28652

On 6/3/2014 10:09 PM, bob smith wrote:
> Why is Java divided into SE and EE?
>
> Why not have just one Java?
>


Java EE has a bunch of libraries for web development that you really 
wouldn't want in a plain desktop or applet environment.

I mean, seriously, have you SEEN the Java EE spec?  It's pretty insane.

Also, now adays, there's even more Javas than just Java SE and Java EE. 
  Java SE now has three different profiles for embedded devices, because 
somebody still thinks they can beat Android.  (Good luck.)

https://blogs.oracle.com/jtc/entry/a_first_look_at_compact

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#28653

"markspace"  wrote in message news:lmmg2b$g2h$1@dont-email.me...

> Also, now adays, there's even more Javas than just Java SE and Java EE. 
> Java SE now has three different profiles for embedded devices, because 
> somebody still thinks they can beat Android.  (Good luck.)

Nothing to do with Android per se: it's all about IoT and Oracle trying to 
position Java ME as the software platform for all connected devices (many of 
which do not run Android).

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me] 

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#28655

On 6/4/2014 2:09 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
> "markspace"  wrote in message news:lmmg2b$g2h$1@dont-email.me...
>
>> Also, now adays, there's even more Javas than just Java SE and Java
>> EE. Java SE now has three different profiles for embedded devices,
>> because somebody still thinks they can beat Android.  (Good luck.)
>
> Nothing to do with Android per se: it's all about IoT and Oracle trying
> to position Java ME as the software platform for all connected devices
> (many of which do not run Android).


Hmm, true.  Although I see all of the "small embedded" markets as 
essentially similar.  If Oracle can make in-roads in devices even 
smaller than Android, perhaps Oracle can then leverage their way into 
larger devices.  I think that's going to be difficult however.

I'm honestly at a loss how they expect to make money on compact 
profiles, either now or later.  I see compact profiles as gee-whiz 
capability with no business plan.  Google takes a cut of app sales on 
Android -- that's a pretty solid business plan.  Where's Oracle's 
equivalent on smaller devices?

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#28656

On 6/4/2014 12:40 PM, markspace wrote:
> On 6/4/2014 2:09 AM, Qu0ll wrote:
>> "markspace"  wrote in message news:lmmg2b$g2h$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>>> Also, now adays, there's even more Javas than just Java SE and Java
>>> EE. Java SE now has three different profiles for embedded devices,
>>> because somebody still thinks they can beat Android.  (Good luck.)
>>
>> Nothing to do with Android per se: it's all about IoT and Oracle trying
>> to position Java ME as the software platform for all connected devices
>> (many of which do not run Android).
>
>
> Hmm, true.  Although I see all of the "small embedded" markets as
> essentially similar.  If Oracle can make in-roads in devices even
> smaller than Android, perhaps Oracle can then leverage their way into
> larger devices.  I think that's going to be difficult however.
>
> I'm honestly at a loss how they expect to make money on compact
> profiles, either now or later.  I see compact profiles as gee-whiz
> capability with no business plan.  Google takes a cut of app sales on
> Android -- that's a pretty solid business plan.  Where's Oracle's
> equivalent on smaller devices?

Traditionally companies has paid a small license fee per device
for Java ME.

Arne

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#28658

On 6/4/2014 6:29 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> Traditionally companies has paid a small license fee per device
> for Java ME.

I'm not sure I would.  C compilers are free.  But maybe the small 
embedded market is a different place these days.

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#28663

On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 20:10:04 -0700, markspace wrote:

> On 6/4/2014 6:29 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> Traditionally companies has paid a small license fee per device for
>> Java ME.
> 
> I'm not sure I would.  C compilers are free.  But maybe the small
> embedded market is a different place these days.
>
For the small devices I've used or looked at closely (Parallax STAMP and  
PICAXE, both programmed in BASIC) the compilers, debuggers and loaders 
have been free commercial software. Same goes for the RaspberryPi except 
that OS, compilers and utilities are free of course - its OS is a Debian 
Linux fork.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#28671

On 6/5/2014 1:37 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 20:10:04 -0700, markspace wrote:
>
>> On 6/4/2014 6:29 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> Traditionally companies has paid a small license fee per device for
>>> Java ME.
>>
>> I'm not sure I would.  C compilers are free.  But maybe the small
>> embedded market is a different place these days.
>>
> For the small devices I've used or looked at closely (Parallax STAMP and
> PICAXE, both programmed in BASIC) the compilers, debuggers and loaders
> have been free commercial software. Same goes for the RaspberryPi except
> that OS, compilers and utilities are free of course - its OS is a Debian
> Linux fork.

I believe the tool chain for Java ME is free as well.

The license is for the runtime environment.

$0.71 per device for smallest CPU's (many ARM), $2.78 per
device for bigger CPU's (Atom, ARM Cortex), $36 per
device (PC CPU).

At least that is how I read:
 
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/price-lists/java-embedded-price-list-1977272.pdf

I suggest reading that document carefully and consult a license
lawyer if you plan on actually using such a license.

There are free alternatives, but 71 cent per device for Java
with support from Oracle is probably peanuts combined with
other cost.

Arne

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#28654

On Tue, 3 Jun 2014 22:09:02 -0700 (PDT), bob smith wrote:

> Why is Java divided into SE and EE?

> Why not have just one Java?

JavaSE and JavaEE are structurally different - JavaSE allows you to compile
and then run Java code. JavaEE is a set of APIs, which allow you to compile
code, but not to run it without including some (often third party) library
that implements that API.

One of the reasons for the division is no doubt that when I see a class in
JavaSE, I know I can use it without having to worry about needing some
additional library at runtime.

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

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#28657

On 6/4/2014 1:09 AM, bob smith wrote:
> Why is Java divided into SE and EE?
>
> Why not have just one Java?

It is way more than two.

Java ME
    CLDC
       MIDP
       IMP
    CDC/embedded
Java SE embedded
Java SE
Java EE
    Web profile
    Full profile

And they certainly share a lot. But there are some different
libraries available. Which should not be that surprising
given that the contexts are so different.

.NET is also split up in various flavors:

.NET CF
SilverLight
.NET client profile
.NET full profile
.NET for Windows store
.NET for Windows Phone

depending on the contexts they are used.

Arne

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