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creating a new language

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  creating a new language mcheung63@gmail.com - 2013-07-20 22:06 -0700
    Re: creating a new language "Keith D. Lee" <keithdlee2012@gmail.com> - 2013-07-21 10:31 +0000
      Re: creating a new language mcheung63@gmail.com - 2013-07-22 02:33 -0700
    Re: creating a new language Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-21 09:27 -0400
      Re: creating a new language mcheung63@gmail.com - 2013-07-22 02:34 -0700
    Re: creating a new language Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2013-07-22 11:42 +0200
      Re: creating a new language Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-22 21:51 -0400
        Re: creating a new language Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2013-07-23 09:06 +0200
          Re: creating a new language Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-07-23 14:36 -0700
            Re: creating a new language Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2013-07-24 00:57 +0200
              Re: creating a new language Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2013-07-24 01:05 +0200
                Re: creating a new language Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-07-24 13:00 +0200
          Re: creating a new language Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-24 18:49 -0400
            Re: creating a new language Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2013-07-25 04:54 +0200
              Re: creating a new language Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2013-07-25 04:57 +0200
                Re: creating a new language Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-07-24 22:01 -0700
                  Re: creating a new language Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2013-07-25 08:16 +0200
              Re: creating a new language Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-25 19:44 -0400
                Re: creating a new language Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2013-07-26 10:22 +0200
                  Re: creating a new language Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2013-07-26 10:38 +0200
                    Re: creating a new language Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-02 22:21 -0400
                  Re: creating a new language Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-02 22:19 -0400
                Re: creating a new language Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-07-26 12:53 +0200
                  Re: creating a new language Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-07-26 19:32 -0300
                  Re: creating a new language Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-08-02 22:26 -0400
        Re: creating a new language Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2013-08-14 14:34 +0000
          Re: creating a new language Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-08-14 11:20 -0400
    Re: creating a new language Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-07-24 01:24 -0700
      Re: creating a new language Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-07-24 13:03 +0200
        Re: creating a new language Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-07-24 19:47 +0000
      Re: creating a new language Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-07-24 15:10 -0700
        Re: creating a new language Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-07-24 16:47 -0700
          Re: creating a new language Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-07-24 16:55 -0700
          Re: creating a new language Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-07-25 12:03 +0200
        Re: creating a new language Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-07-25 17:43 -0300
          Re: creating a new language Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-07-25 22:53 +0200
          Re: creating a new language Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-25 17:30 -0400
          Re: creating a new language Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-25 19:47 -0400
      Re: creating a new language Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-24 18:50 -0400
        Re: creating a new language Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-24 20:54 -0400
          Re: creating a new language Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-07-25 11:51 +0200
            Re: creating a new language Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-07-25 20:01 +0000
              Re: creating a new language Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-25 19:46 -0400
                Re: creating a new language Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-08-13 23:58 +0000

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#24789 — creating a new language

Hi All.
   creating a new language, i want to call it Titan. Is this word easy to pronounce? i am not western people so want to ask.
thanks
from Peter (cmk128@hotmail.com)

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#24791

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 22:06:24 -0700, mcheung63 wrote:

> Hi All.
>    creating a new language, i want to call it Titan. Is this word easy
>    to pronounce? i am not western people so want to ask.
> thanks from Peter (cmk128@hotmail.com)

Peter:
	Sounds great to me. What are the differences and/or similarities between Titan and Java?



-- 
Sincerely,
Keith D. Lee

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#24798

Thanks Keith
   It would be a cloud programming language

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#24792

On 7/21/2013 1:06 AM, mcheung63@gmail.com wrote:
>     creating a new language, i want to call it Titan. Is this word easy to pronounce? i am not western people so want to ask.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan indicates Titan is widely used for
names (but no programming language yet).

Arne

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#24799

Arne Vajhøj於 2013年7月21日星期日UTC+8下午9時27分07秒寫道：
> On 7/21/2013 1:06 AM, mcheung63@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> >     creating a new language, i want to call it Titan. Is this word easy to pronounce? i am not western people so want to ask.
> 
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan indicates Titan is widely used for
> 
> names (but no programming language yet).
> 
> 
> 
> Arne

Thanks Arne

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#24800

mcheung63@gmail.com schrieb:
> Hi All.
>     creating a new language, i want to call it Titan. Is this word easy to pronounce? i am not western people so want to ask.
> thanks
> from Peter (cmk128@hotmail.com)
>

I wouldn't use a name that is already found in a dictionary.
You will later have search engine optimization (SEO) problems.
Its better to invent a name that is new.

But otherwise I think the name could be also improved what
concerns the number of vowels. Names such as Java, Modula, etc..
have a higher vowel ration than Titan.

Bye

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#24805

On 7/22/2013 5:42 AM, Jan Burse wrote:
> mcheung63@gmail.com schrieb:
>>     creating a new language, i want to call it Titan. Is this word
>> easy to pronounce? i am not western people so want to ask.
>
> I wouldn't use a name that is already found in a dictionary.
> You will later have search engine optimization (SEO) problems.
> Its better to invent a name that is new.

I doubt that Google ranking for a languages name is
that important.

> But otherwise I think the name could be also improved what
> concerns the number of vowels. Names such as Java, Modula, etc..
> have a higher vowel ration than Titan.

Ada - 67%
Java, Modula, Ruby - 50%
Oberon - 43%
Cobol, Basic - 40%
Pascal, Python - 33%
JavaScript - 30%
Fortran - 28%
Lisp - 25%
C, C++, C#, PHP - 0%

It is not that obvious that more wovels means more popular.

Arne

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#24807

Arne Vajhøj schrieb:
> I doubt that Google ranking for a languages name is
> that important.

Maybe not for the language design, but for the
end-users. Compare the following two searches:

     go bug
     go programming language bug

Further search engine optimization should address
all search engines. Means not only google:

     In the People's Republic of China, Baidu
     held a 61.6% market share for web search
     in July 2009. In Russian Federation,
     Yandex holds around 60% of the market
     share as of April 2012.

Finally finding a new name can be surprisingly
difficult. A name original in one language region
can mean somthing in another language region.

Bye

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#24809

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 09:06:03 +0200, Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm>
wrote:

[snip]

>Finally finding a new name can be surprisingly
>difficult. A name original in one language region
>can mean somthing in another language region.

     Or in another use of language area.

     An example of this is looking up information on CARDIAC
(Cardboard Illustrative Aid to Computation) without spelling out the
acronym.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#24812

Gene Wirchenko schrieb:
>       Or in another use of language area.
> Gene Wirchenko

Yeah, it is sad. For example if you search for
Java on google, you won't get the Java island
on the first 10 hits. Although Java, the island,
has 141 millionen inhabitants.

Bye

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#24813

Jan Burse schrieb:
> Gene Wirchenko schrieb:
>>       Or in another use of language area.
>> Gene Wirchenko
>
> Yeah, it is sad. For example if you search for
> Java on google, you won't get the Java island
> on the first 10 hits. Although Java, the island,
> has 141 millionen inhabitants.
>
> Bye
>
>

But you won't have the above problem, if
you choose a word that is not contained
in vocabularies.

Titan is not such a word. Java, Ada,
Oberon are neither. Modula on the other
hand is a recent creation.

But I guess one has not only to scan
vocabularies, but also brand registers
etc..

For example although modula is not
a common word, it is found in many
product names:

    Atradius Modula
    modula wave
    Notebook MODULA 15M02
    modula city
    modula rosti mepal
    modula lift
    modula plus berding

Bye

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#24815

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:05:37 +0200, Jan Burse wrote:

> Jan Burse schrieb:
>> Gene Wirchenko schrieb:
>>>       Or in another use of language area.
>>> Gene Wirchenko
>> Yeah, it is sad. For example if you search for
>> Java on google, you won't get the Java island
>> on the first 10 hits. Although Java, the island,
>> has 141 millionen inhabitants.
> But you won't have the above problem, if
> you choose a word that is not contained
> in vocabularies.

> Titan is not such a word. Java, Ada,
> Oberon are neither. Modula on the other
> hand is a recent creation.

Another solution is an intentional "misspelling", such as with Google Guice
(which is pronounced Juice, which obviously wouldn't be terribly
google-able).

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

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#24824

On 7/23/2013 3:06 AM, Jan Burse wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj schrieb:
>> I doubt that Google ranking for a languages name is
>> that important.
>
> Maybe not for the language design, but for the
> end-users. Compare the following two searches:
>
>      go bug
>      go programming language bug

I know that I would never chose a language
based on how easy it is to search for in google.

I find it hard to believe that other will.

But ....


Arne

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#24829

Arne Vajhøj schrieb:
>>
>>      go bug
>>      go programming language bug
>
> I know that I would never chose a language
> based on how easy it is to search for in google.
>
> I find it hard to believe that other will.
>
> But ....
>
>
> Arne

And would it matter whether it is easy to
pronounce? As the mcheung asks?

I guess you might believe that your (in)conciousness
is immune to any of these issues, pronounciation
and/or google search. But many studies show that
names are important in marketing.

Let's take the example of choosing a business
name. The pronounciation is only one item
in a check list:

     Can the proposed name be pronounced easily?
     [...]
     http://marketing.about.com/cs/marketingjobs/a/biznametest.htm

But you find also items such as:

     Does it spark interest? Is there a story behind it?
     [...]

But in modern times it is not enough to work
along a simple check list that doesn't contain
any SEO. So its also better to watch for:

     Search engine optimisation (SEO) plays a
     critical role in building an online
     presence. Talk to any SEO specialists and
     inevitably, they will recommended that
     your mindset should be set towards optimisation
     at the earliest possible stage. Even business
     names can benefit from the careful use of
     current SEO techniques.
 
http://blog.businessname.com.au/seo-and-choosing-the-best-business-names/

Bye

P.S.: My favorite programming language name is:

    brainfuck
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck

But there are a couple of other programming language
names equally evocative.

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#24830

Jan Burse schrieb:
> But there are a couple of other programming language
> names equally evocative.

     4.1 Befunge
     4.2 Binary Lambda Calculus
     4.3 Brainfuck
     4.4 Chef
     4.5 FALSE
     4.6 INTERCAL
     4.7 LOLCODE
     4.8 Malbolge
     4.9 One instruction set computer
     4.10 Piet
     4.11 Shakespeare
     4.12 Whitespace
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language

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#24831

Jan Burse wrote:
> Jan Burse schrieb:
>> But there are a couple of other programming language
>> names equally evocative.
> 
>      4.1 Befunge
>      4.2 Binary Lambda Calculus
>      4.3 Brainfuck
>      4.4 Chef
>      4.5 FALSE
>      4.6 INTERCAL
>      4.7 LOLCODE
>      4.8 Malbolge
>      4.9 One instruction set computer
>      4.10 Piet
>      4.11 Shakespeare
>      4.12 Whitespace
>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language

Then there are the non-esoteric ones: SNOBOL, LISP, WATFOR, WATFIV, COBOL, BASIC, Pascal, Haskell, Simula, FORTH, Algol, Jorf, perl, bash, zsh (terrible vowel count), csh, SQL, dBase/xBase, XML, Smalltalk, assembler, machine code, JCL, cheese, Paradox, cheese, Ada, cheese, p-code, cheese, bytecode, FORTRAN, cheese. cheese, cheese, cheese, cheese, cheese.

-- 
Lew

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#24832

Lew schrieb:
>>       4.12 Whitespace
>> >      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language
> ... assembler, machine code ...

And then there are animal >names<:
.. dog, cat, ...

BTW: One finds a couple name generators on the net:

    http://www.fantasynamegen.com/

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#24840

On 7/24/2013 10:54 PM, Jan Burse wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj schrieb:
>>>
>>>      go bug
>>>      go programming language bug
>>
>> I know that I would never chose a language
>> based on how easy it is to search for in google.
>>
>> I find it hard to believe that other will.
>>
>> But ....
>
> And would it matter whether it is easy to
> pronounce? As the mcheung asks?

No.

> I guess you might believe that your (in)conciousness
> is immune to any of these issues, pronounciation
> and/or google search. But many studies show that
> names are important in marketing.
>
> Let's take the example of choosing a business
> name. The pronounciation is only one item
> in a check list:
>
>      Can the proposed name be pronounced easily?
>      [...]
>      http://marketing.about.com/cs/marketingjobs/a/biznametest.htm
>
> But you find also items such as:
>
>      Does it spark interest? Is there a story behind it?
>      [...]
>
> But in modern times it is not enough to work
> along a simple check list that doesn't contain
> any SEO. So its also better to watch for:
>
>      Search engine optimisation (SEO) plays a
>      critical role in building an online
>      presence. Talk to any SEO specialists and
>      inevitably, they will recommended that
>      your mindset should be set towards optimisation
>      at the earliest possible stage. Even business
>      names can benefit from the careful use of
>      current SEO techniques.
>
> http://blog.businessname.com.au/seo-and-choosing-the-best-business-names/

And?

Unless you can show that programming language names and
business names share characteristica then I do not see
the point.

I can tell you that I have never tried how easy a programming
language is too google as part of deciding what programming language
to use for a project.

And I would like to hear somebody say that they have. It does
not make any sense at all.

Businesses have sold things to me because they were easy
to find via google. Not often - I am lazy and usually use
Amazon - but sometimes.

But I don't use the same process for those two scenarios.

Arne

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#24843

Arne Vajhøj schrieb:
> But I don't use the same process for those two scenarios.

I guess you feel professionally intimitdated
by the picture of psychological effects in decision
making. So you herald the romantic picture of
informed engineering decision making.

The informeed decision making where one makes
a long weighted list of criterias, then looks
at each product and takes the product with the
best total score.

But how do you choose the products for evaluation
in the first place? There is huge noise of
products out there. And some names will stick
to your memory and you will consider these
products.

And marketing is happy when it can manage to
sneak into your mind at this early stage. For
the evaluation process later there is no
responsibility of the marketing department.

To have a good score on your evaluation, the
engineering department is responsible. Or
at an early stage the research & development
department.

Do you get it, what the goal is?

Bye

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#24844

Jan Burse schrieb:
> To have a good score on your evaluation, the
> engineering department is responsible. Or
> at an early stage the research & development
> department.

In some product classes there is anyway the issue
that the engineering department is unimportant.
Since it is always possible to make top score
in important criterias. Take for example fruit
juice, they will all be handled hygienic, so
in the end marketing department is the most
important.

We will soon also see an end of the engineering
department for programming language design.
There will be enough powerful meta languages
around, including JIT chains, so that programming
languages are nothing else then DSLs. It will
be harder and harder to find differentiating
criterias.

So basically modern programming language design
will address the taste of end-users similar
like fruit juice does. And some end-users have
this taste and others have this taste. Today
you can basically launch a new language with
1 language engineer and 10 web designers who
make fancy websites, blogs, etc.. about the
new language.

Bye

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