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from c++ to java

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  from c++ to java Asit Dhal <lipun4u@gmail.com> - 2011-09-25 11:48 -0700
    Re: from c++ to java Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-25 15:19 -0400
    Re: from c++ to java BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-25 14:26 -0700
      Re: from c++ to java Donkey Hottie <donkey@fredriksson.dy.fi> - 2011-09-26 10:17 +0300
        Re: from c++ to java BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-26 19:04 -0700
        Re: from c++ to java Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-27 19:38 -0400
    Re: from c++ to java Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-25 20:54 -0300
    Re: from c++ to java Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-09-25 18:02 -0700
    Re: from c++ to java Jason S <jason.savlov@gmail.com> - 2011-09-26 15:36 -0400

#8308 — from c++ to java

Hi,

I am a c/c++ programmer. I have mostly worked in application development (data processing) in c/c++( 2 years). I have no professional experience in web development.

Should I go for java ? Do the industry need c++ programmers to work in java ??

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#8310

On 9/25/2011 2:48 PM, Asit Dhal wrote:
> I am a c/c++ programmer. I have mostly worked in application development (data processing) in c/c++( 2 years). I have no professional experience in web development.
>
> Should I go for java ? Do the industry need c++ programmers to work in java ??

Server side backend Java work would probably have business requirements
very similar to what you are used to.

But paradigms for solution will be somewhat different.

If you are a good C++ programmer then you can become a good
Java programmer.

Arne

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#8312

On 9/25/2011 11:48 AM, Asit Dhal wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am a c/c++ programmer. I have mostly worked in application development (data processing) in c/c++( 2 years). I have no professional experience in web development.
>
> Should I go for java ? Do the industry need c++ programmers to work in java ??

both languages are popular and have merit.

my quick thoughts are, if possible, try to keep some skill in both 
(being able to write in one or the other, using whatever is already in 
use or better fitted to the job, is a reasonably valuable skill).

for example, I am primarily a C developer (I also use some C++, but 
plain C is my main one), however I am also generally familiar with Java 
and C#, and so can use for them if the task calls for it (albeit, 
currently I am mostly working more with compiler/VM and 3D game-engine 
technology, which are still more C / C++ dominated areas).


not intending to hark on it, but I also use a custom-designed language 
some, but it is intended more for high-level scripting, and is far from 
what could be called "industrial strength" (it has been used 
informally/small-scale in my projects since around 2004 or so, but was 
expanded more significantly over the past 2 years or so).

I had investigated the use of Java as a high-level scripting language, 
but came to the opinion that it has some notable drawbacks in this area 
(in particular, the lack of "load scripts from source-files" and "eval", 
and the general level of pain needed to interface it with a primarily C 
and C++ codebase). so, I eventually opted to continue using my own 
technology.

I am also not as fond of Python and Lua (the major players in this 
area). I also investigated .NET and found another big mess of problem areas.

so, I have done what I have done...


however, Java should be a fairly solid platform for developing things 
like applications and similar, when developing/working-with a primarily 
Java code-base.

also, it is fairly easy for a programmer to move between the languages 
(although, sadly, not along with all their code...).


or such...

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#8325

26.9.2011 0:26, BGB kirjoitti:
> 
> I had investigated the use of Java as a high-level scripting language,
> but came to the opinion that it has some notable drawbacks in this area
> (in particular, the lack of "load scripts from source-files" and "eval",
> and the general level of pain needed to interface it with a primarily C
> and C++ codebase). so, I eventually opted to continue using my own
> technology.

Did you ever consider JavaScript? There should be several engines
available, and it loads of couse from source files, and has eval.

-- 

Exercise caution in your daily affairs.

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#8353

On 9/26/2011 12:17 AM, Donkey Hottie wrote:
> 26.9.2011 0:26, BGB kirjoitti:
>>
>> I had investigated the use of Java as a high-level scripting language,
>> but came to the opinion that it has some notable drawbacks in this area
>> (in particular, the lack of "load scripts from source-files" and "eval",
>> and the general level of pain needed to interface it with a primarily C
>> and C++ codebase). so, I eventually opted to continue using my own
>> technology.
>
> Did you ever consider JavaScript? There should be several engines
> available, and it loads of couse from source files, and has eval.
>


my language (BGBScript) is largely initially based on JavaScript (I 
initially ran across JavaScript, and mostly threw together "something 
similar").

at the time (around late 2003), I was not aware of there being any 
freely available/standalone JS engines, and I had just assumed write my 
own. continued maintenance/expansion has generally been "the path of 
least effort".

my language also takes a lot from ActionScript and C# (and C), and 
mostly conforms with ECMA-262 (ECMAScript). main areas of 
difference/non-conformance are mostly related to scoping semantics, 
minor language semantics/features, extensions, and differences regarding 
the treatment of numeric types (a numeric tower exists).

it is "hit or miss" as to whether or not numeric types are auto-promoted 
(manual promotion is preferable). implicit down-promotion will work but 
result in truncation (like in C or C++). eventually, this may be made a 
warning (the compiler may warn if implicit conversions will lose 
precision, but will not likely require explicit down-casts).

technically, the language also (sort of) supports pointers and 
value-types and similar as well. the language supports "structs" which 
are essentially pass-by-value classes with C#-like semantics (I may 
later define a "proper" pass-by-value class type, which could 
essentially also be used for doing something analogous to the C++ RAII 
concept). I am currently leaning towards a name something like "byval 
class" or "value class".

pointers are "not often used", and intended mostly to ease C 
interfacing, and may be allowed/disallowed based on "access rights".


before, I had written a C compiler, and later implemented a customized 
JVM, mostly as:
initially, I figured I could use C for scripting (vs an earlier form of 
BGBScript), which would give good performance and C plays nicely with C. 
however, compiler performance and bugs mostly killed this effort (making 
a C compiler both fast and reasonably solid is non-trivial).

(for a scripting language, and loading-from-source, it matters somewhat 
that the compiler is fast, and standard C didn't really allow for this).


I later implemented a customized JVM, but it (and Java in general) just 
didn't really "fit" with what I wanted to do with it in this case, which 
killed this effort (a standard JVM would have posed similar issues, the 
customized VM was mostly so that I could "fix" the problems with the 
main VM, but found that many were architectural and there often was no 
real "fix"). also, my own implementation would have been "bastardized" 
with many extensions.

I then tried to design a "new" language and VM at this point (the new 
language would have been more Java-like), but this effort went nowhere 
(mostly for sake of me starting to realize the effort investment required).


so, eventually I resumed continued use/maintenance of my existing 
language and VM (and most of the imagined features for the new language 
and VM were later bolted/kludged onto the old language/VM instead).

it currently supports both JavaScript/ActionScript style declaration 
syntax, as well as Java/C# style syntax, but JS/AS syntax is more in the 
direction I am leaning for the "proper" declaration syntax, but who knows.


or such...

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#8376

On 9/26/2011 3:17 AM, Donkey Hottie wrote:
> 26.9.2011 0:26, BGB kirjoitti:
>> I had investigated the use of Java as a high-level scripting language,
>> but came to the opinion that it has some notable drawbacks in this area
>> (in particular, the lack of "load scripts from source-files" and "eval",
>> and the general level of pain needed to interface it with a primarily C
>> and C++ codebase). so, I eventually opted to continue using my own
>> technology.
>
> Did you ever consider JavaScript? There should be several engines
> available, and it loads of couse from source files, and has eval.

Or Java code using BeanShell!

(BeanShell has eval and source)

Arne

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#8320

On 11-09-25 03:48 PM, Asit Dhal wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am a c/c++ programmer. I have mostly worked in application development (data processing) in c/c++( 2 years). I have no professional experience in web development.
> 
> Should I go for java ? Do the industry need c++ programmers to work in java ??

The industry is going to need large numbers of Java programmers for a
long time yet. Regardless of what previous background they have. It's
the #1 language out there according to the TIOBE index. C is #2. And C++
is #3, with quite a respectable rating.

For general-purpose "business" programmers it's absolutely a good idea
to know several languages, and it's definitely a good idea to know
something about web applications. Since object orientation is so
dominant "several languages" can easily mean several OOP languages like
C++ and Java and C#.

I am not going to estimate how long it might take to become adequate in
Java, assuming reasonable proficiency in C++. It depends on too many
factors. But since you won't become good with Java until you start
learning it, there is no time like the present, and it will take as long
as it takes.

AHS

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#8321

On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 11:48:31 -0700 (PDT), Asit Dhal
<lipun4u@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>I am a c/c++ programmer. I have mostly worked in application
> development (data processing) in c/c++( 2 years). I have no professional experience in web development.
>
>Should I go for java ? Do the industry need c++ programmers to work in java ??

You might carve out a niche doing JNI for things you can't do in Java.
Generally the market for programmers is soft.  Check the classified
ads in your part of the world.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
It should not be considered an error when the user starts something
already started or stops something already stopped. This applies
to browsers, services, editors... It is inexcusable to 
punish the user by requiring some elaborate sequence to atone,
e.g. open the task editor, find and kill some processes.

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#8339

On 2011-09-25 18:48:31 +0000, Asit Dhal said:

> Hi,
> 
> I am a c/c++ programmer. I have mostly worked in application 
> development (data processing) in c/c++( 2 years). I have no 
> professional experience in web development.
> 
> Should I go for java ? Do the industry need c++ programmers to work in java ??

I would pick up Java anyways just to know it. You'll probably end up 
using it at some point in your life. It's pretty easy to pick up if 
you're seasoned with C/C++. Read some tutorials on the web or pick up a 
book.

Have fun.

-- 
Jason

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