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Java EE on tomcat?

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  Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 10:53 -0700
    Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 11:22 -0700
      Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 12:08 -0700
        Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-08 17:48 -0400
      Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-08 17:56 -0400
    Re: Java EE on tomcat? markspace <-@.> - 2011-09-08 12:36 -0700
    Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-08 17:41 -0400
      Re: Java EE on tomcat? Torsten Kirschner <torsten.kirschner@gmail.com> - 2011-09-19 00:30 +0200
        Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-18 20:44 -0300
          Re: Java EE on tomcat? Torsten Kirschner <torsten.kirschner@gmail.com> - 2011-09-20 00:20 +0200
            Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-20 05:50 -0300
              Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 08:45 -0700
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 11:19 -0700
                  Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 11:31 -0700
                    Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-21 17:37 -0300
                  Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 11:29 -0700
                    Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 14:26 -0700
                      Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 10:27 -0700
                        Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 13:30 -0700
                    Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-21 20:40 -0400
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-21 20:35 -0400
                  Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 10:23 -0700
                    Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 13:38 -0700
                    Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-22 21:15 -0400
        Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-19 21:55 -0400
          Re: Java EE on tomcat? eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2011-09-21 04:38 +0000
            Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-21 20:29 -0400
              Re: Java EE on tomcat? eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2011-09-22 02:41 +0000
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-22 06:08 -0300
                  Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-22 21:18 -0400
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 08:39 -0700
                  Re: Java EE on tomcat? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-09-22 22:58 +0200
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-22 18:47 -0400
                  Re: Java EE on tomcat? eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2011-09-24 04:45 +0000

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#8189

On 9/21/2011 11:45 AM, nroberts wrote:
> Apparently the decision to move to Tomcat was simply one of
> standardization.  I think perhaps the decision was made a while back.
> At any rate it was made without me for reasons I do not know.  I was
> told though, when I mentioned being worried that such limits could
> increase development effort, that I can use whatever libraries or
> extensions I need.  This includes things like OpenEJB etc...
>
> After learning more about these buzzwords and what they actually
> implement though I'm starting to wonder what is left for EJB.

Session and message driven beans are useful for the exact same
thing that they have always been useful for.

Note that you may not need them. Many solutions lives just
fine with a web container only.

>                                                         I can
> replace standard Java EE JPA with Hibernate

But why would you tie your app to a specific lib instead
of using a standard?

> I can pull in JSF with either the standard implementation or MyFaces
> (and tobago or whatever looks pretty interesting).

JSF in Tomcat works great.

> Unfortunately, if I use OpenEJB I'm stuck with an older Tomcat as it
> doesn't work with 7.0 yet.

You should do:

requirements => technologies => infrastructure

not the other way around.

Start by finding out whether you need EJB or not.

Then start looking at how you can get it.

> What is it that EJB offers me that I don't get with these other
> standard technologies?  I thought it was things like SessionBeans and
> such, but if I use the CDI and JSF bits it seems like I get a lot of
> the same behavior because I've got @ManagedBean or @Named.  I'm
> finding this confusing.

I would consider:
- session beans and CDI orthogonal
- session beans and managed beans different

Arne

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#8210

On Sep 21, 5:35 pm, Arne Vajhøj <a...@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
> On 9/21/2011 11:45 AM, nroberts wrote:

> You should do:
>
> requirements => technologies => infrastructure
>
> not the other way around.

Yes.

>
> Start by finding out whether you need EJB or not.

Which is impossible if you don't know what EJB does and what it
provides extra to additional or alternative technologies.

> > What is it that EJB offers me that I don't get with these other
> > standard technologies?  I thought it was things like SessionBeans and
> > such, but if I use the CDI and JSF bits it seems like I get a lot of
> > the same behavior because I've got @ManagedBean or @Named.  I'm
> > finding this confusing.
>
> I would consider:
> - session beans and CDI orthogonal
> - session beans and managed beans different

In what way though?

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#8216

nroberts wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> You should do:
>>
>> requirements => technologies => infrastructure
>>
>> not the other way around.
> 
> Yes.
> 
>>
>> Start by finding out whether you need EJB or not.
> 
> Which is impossible if you don't know what EJB does and what it
> provides extra to additional or alternative technologies.

As I explained upthread, EJB (Enterprise Java Beans) are middleware components that implement business logic, typically to be shared as services by multiple applications.  

>>> What is it that EJB offers me that I don't get with these other
>>> standard technologies?  I thought it was things like SessionBeans and
>>> such, but if I use the CDI and JSF bits it seems like I get a lot of
>>> the same behavior because I've got @ManagedBean or @Named.  I'm
>>> finding this confusing.
>>
>> I would consider:
>> - session beans and CDI orthogonal
>> - session beans and managed beans different
> 
> In what way though?

Session beans are orthogonal to CDI in that you can use session beans with or without dependency injection, and dependency injection with or without session beans.

Session beans and managed beans differ, once again as already answered upthread (perhaps you missed that post?), in that session beans are a business logic, middleware component that serves the "Model" part of the MVC architecture, and JSF managed beans are front-end components that serve the "Controller" part of the MVC architecture.

-- 
Lew

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#8225

On 9/22/2011 1:23 PM, nroberts wrote:
> On Sep 21, 5:35 pm, Arne Vajhøj<a...@vajhoej.dk>  wrote:
>> On 9/21/2011 11:45 AM, nroberts wrote:
>
>> You should do:
>>
>> requirements =>  technologies =>  infrastructure
>>
>> not the other way around.
>
> Yes.
>
>>
>> Start by finding out whether you need EJB or not.
>
> Which is impossible if you don't know what EJB does and what it
> provides extra to additional or alternative technologies.
>
>>> What is it that EJB offers me that I don't get with these other
>>> standard technologies?  I thought it was things like SessionBeans and
>>> such, but if I use the CDI and JSF bits it seems like I get a lot of
>>> the same behavior because I've got @ManagedBean or @Named.  I'm
>>> finding this confusing.
>>
>> I would consider:
>> - session beans and CDI orthogonal
>> - session beans and managed beans different
>
> In what way though?

Like Ford and Red being ortogonal and car and airplane
being different.

Arne

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#8167

On 9/18/2011 6:30 PM, Torsten Kirschner wrote:
> Den 08.09.2011 23:41, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>> On 9/8/2011 1:53 PM, nroberts wrote:
>>> If higher ups decided that I had to work with Tomcat...no JBoss or
>>> glassfish or anything...what limitations am I looking at?  What parts
>>> of Java EE become unavailable to me?
>>
>> Tomcat is a web container only (Java EE Web Profile in
>> Java EE 6 terminology).
> [...]
>> You don't have EJB, JCA, JTA, JMS etc..
> [...]
>
> Using the Spring Framework ( http://www.springsource.org/ ), one gets
> most of the above, except EJB, I guess. Add Hybernate and you're set.

I don't think Spring has JCA.

I don't think Spring provides JTA or JMS - it just allows to
interface other providers.

It is Hibernate not Hybernate.

Spring really does not provide much of the standards.

Arne

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#8177

In article <4e77f29e$0$311$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>On 9/18/2011 6:30 PM, Torsten Kirschner wrote:
>> Den 08.09.2011 23:41, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>> On 9/8/2011 1:53 PM, nroberts wrote:
>>>> If higher ups decided that I had to work with Tomcat...no JBoss or
>>>> glassfish or anything...what limitations am I looking at?  What parts
>>>> of Java EE become unavailable to me?
>>>
>>> Tomcat is a web container only (Java EE Web Profile in
>>> Java EE 6 terminology).
>> [...]
>>> You don't have EJB, JCA, JTA, JMS etc..
>> [...]
>>
>> Using the Spring Framework ( http://www.springsource.org/ ), one gets
>> most of the above, except EJB, I guess. Add Hybernate and you're set.
>
>I don't think Spring has JCA.
>
>I don't think Spring provides JTA or JMS - it just allows to
>interface other providers.
>
>It is Hibernate not Hybernate.
>
>Spring really does not provide much of the standards.
>
>Arne
>
>
I do think Spring is nice but it doesn't try to provide the standards (JEE). 
When it first came out, it was a lot easier to use than much of the JEE stack. 
These days JEE has been simplified.

Eric

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#8188

On 9/21/2011 12:38 AM, EricF wrote:
> In article<4e77f29e$0$311$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<arne@vajhoej.dk>  wrote:
>> On 9/18/2011 6:30 PM, Torsten Kirschner wrote:
>>> Den 08.09.2011 23:41, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>> On 9/8/2011 1:53 PM, nroberts wrote:
>>>>> If higher ups decided that I had to work with Tomcat...no JBoss or
>>>>> glassfish or anything...what limitations am I looking at?  What parts
>>>>> of Java EE become unavailable to me?
>>>>
>>>> Tomcat is a web container only (Java EE Web Profile in
>>>> Java EE 6 terminology).
>>> [...]
>>>> You don't have EJB, JCA, JTA, JMS etc..
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Using the Spring Framework ( http://www.springsource.org/ ), one gets
>>> most of the above, except EJB, I guess. Add Hybernate and you're set.
>>
>> I don't think Spring has JCA.
>>
>> I don't think Spring provides JTA or JMS - it just allows to
>> interface other providers.
>>
>> It is Hibernate not Hybernate.
>>
>> Spring really does not provide much of the standards.

> I do think Spring is nice but it doesn't try to provide the standards (JEE).
> When it first came out, it was a lot easier to use than much of the JEE stack.
> These days JEE has been simplified.

But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
same.

Arne

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#8193

In article <4e7a8166$0$281$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>On 9/21/2011 12:38 AM, EricF wrote:
>> In article<4e77f29e$0$311$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<arne@vajhoej.dk>  wrote:
>>> On 9/18/2011 6:30 PM, Torsten Kirschner wrote:
>>>> Den 08.09.2011 23:41, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>>> On 9/8/2011 1:53 PM, nroberts wrote:
>>>>>> If higher ups decided that I had to work with Tomcat...no JBoss or
>>>>>> glassfish or anything...what limitations am I looking at?  What parts
>>>>>> of Java EE become unavailable to me?
>>>>>
>>>>> Tomcat is a web container only (Java EE Web Profile in
>>>>> Java EE 6 terminology).
>>>> [...]
>>>>> You don't have EJB, JCA, JTA, JMS etc..
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> Using the Spring Framework ( http://www.springsource.org/ ), one gets
>>>> most of the above, except EJB, I guess. Add Hybernate and you're set.
>>>
>>> I don't think Spring has JCA.
>>>
>>> I don't think Spring provides JTA or JMS - it just allows to
>>> interface other providers.
>>>
>>> It is Hibernate not Hybernate.
>>>
>>> Spring really does not provide much of the standards.
>
>> I do think Spring is nice but it doesn't try to provide the standards (JEE).
>> When it first came out, it was a lot easier to use than much of the JEE
> stack.
>> These days JEE has been simplified.
>
>But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
>solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
>same.
>
>Arne
>
>
Arne, I certainly agree with your comment in general. Personally I like Java 
and many parts of JEE, but I'm not sure how "standard" Oracle solutions are. 
There are several JEE servers so there are a few options - Websphere, 
Weblogic, JBoss, Glassfish, ... I must be missing 1 or 2. But have you ever 
ported an EJB from 1 to the other? I have. Standard solutions just aren't that 
standard anymore.

The LAMP stack, JEE, Spring are all different ways to do similar things. 
Options are nice.

Eric

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#8196

On 11-09-21 11:41 PM, EricF wrote:
> In article <4e7a8166$0$281$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 9/21/2011 12:38 AM, EricF wrote:
>>> In article<4e77f29e$0$311$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
[ SNIP ]

>>
>>> I do think Spring is nice but it doesn't try to provide the standards (JEE).
>>> When it first came out, it was a lot easier to use than much of the JEE
>> stack.
>>> These days JEE has been simplified.
>>
>> But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
>> solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
>> same.
>>
>> Arne
>>
>>
> Arne, I certainly agree with your comment in general. Personally I like Java 
> and many parts of JEE, but I'm not sure how "standard" Oracle solutions are.

Pretty standard now. :-) They own Glassfish, for example.

Seriously, Oracle's been as standard as anyone else in the J2EE/Java EE
world, in my experience, for quite some time.

> There are several JEE servers so there are a few options - Websphere, 
> Weblogic, JBoss, Glassfish, ... I must be missing 1 or 2. But have you ever 
> ported an EJB from 1 to the other? I have. Standard solutions just aren't that 
> standard anymore.

But with Java EE the progression has absolutely been from less
standardization to more standardization. This has gone hand in hand with
the rationalization/simplification of specifications.

It's not been that long since EJBs meant ejb-jar.xml, and the server's
own ejb-jar.xml companion configuration file, and doing explicit JNDI
lookup. All of that - especially the JNDI - is what was exposing
non-standardization. Not only are less things non-standard now, but the
beauty of API specifications movement in the Java EE space has been that
a lot of the non-standard bits have been hidden. Dependency injection
has a lot to do with that.

> The LAMP stack, JEE, Spring are all different ways to do similar things. 
> Options are nice.
> 
> Eric

LAMP absolutely. Or write an HTTP server using node.js. Or operate in
the ASP.NET MVC ecosystem. Options are essential.

But Spring was only an option - a credible, useful option - for a brief
window back when, during some period of J2EE 1.2-1.4. Recall that Spring
emerged during J2EE 1.3, and really only matured during J2EE 1.4. *All*
Spring 2.x releases happened after Java EE 5 was released. Basically
Java EE 5 closed the lid on Spring, and Java EE 6 has hammered in the nails.

My argument now is, if you're using Spring, most of the time there is a
standard non-Spring way to do the same thing.

AHS

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#8227

On 9/22/2011 5:08 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> On 11-09-21 11:41 PM, EricF wrote:
>> In article<4e7a8166$0$281$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<arne@vajhoej.dk>  wrote:
>>> On 9/21/2011 12:38 AM, EricF wrote:
>>>> In article<4e77f29e$0$311$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
> [ SNIP ]
>
>>>
>>>> I do think Spring is nice but it doesn't try to provide the standards (JEE).
>>>> When it first came out, it was a lot easier to use than much of the JEE
>>> stack.
>>>> These days JEE has been simplified.
>>>
>>> But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
>>> solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
>>> same.
>>>
>>>
>> Arne, I certainly agree with your comment in general. Personally I like Java
>> and many parts of JEE, but I'm not sure how "standard" Oracle solutions are.
>
> Pretty standard now. :-) They own Glassfish, for example.
>
> Seriously, Oracle's been as standard as anyone else in the J2EE/Java EE
> world, in my experience, for quite some time.
>
>> There are several JEE servers so there are a few options - Websphere,
>> Weblogic, JBoss, Glassfish, ... I must be missing 1 or 2. But have you ever
>> ported an EJB from 1 to the other? I have. Standard solutions just aren't that
>> standard anymore.
>
> But with Java EE the progression has absolutely been from less
> standardization to more standardization. This has gone hand in hand with
> the rationalization/simplification of specifications.
>
> It's not been that long since EJBs meant ejb-jar.xml, and the server's
> own ejb-jar.xml companion configuration file, and doing explicit JNDI
> lookup. All of that - especially the JNDI - is what was exposing
> non-standardization. Not only are less things non-standard now, but the
> beauty of API specifications movement in the Java EE space has been that
> a lot of the non-standard bits have been hidden. Dependency injection
> has a lot to do with that.
>
>> The LAMP stack, JEE, Spring are all different ways to do similar things.
>> Options are nice.
>
> LAMP absolutely. Or write an HTTP server using node.js. Or operate in
> the ASP.NET MVC ecosystem. Options are essential.
>
> But Spring was only an option - a credible, useful option - for a brief
> window back when, during some period of J2EE 1.2-1.4. Recall that Spring
> emerged during J2EE 1.3, and really only matured during J2EE 1.4. *All*
> Spring 2.x releases happened after Java EE 5 was released. Basically
> Java EE 5 closed the lid on Spring, and Java EE 6 has hammered in the nails.
>
> My argument now is, if you're using Spring, most of the time there is a
> standard non-Spring way to do the same thing.

If Spring is only used for its original purpose DI and that feature
is used moderatly then it is not so bad.

But using everything Spring and use it all over a project usually
turns pretty ugly.

Arne

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#8207

EricF wrote:
> Arne_Vajh=F8j?= wrote:
>> But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
>> solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
>> same.
>>
> Arne, I certainly agree with your comment in general. Personally I like Java 
> and many parts of JEE, but I'm not sure how "standard" Oracle solutions are. 
> There are several JEE servers so there are a few options - Websphere, 
> Weblogic, JBoss, Glassfish, ... I must be missing 1 or 2. But have you ever 
> ported an EJB from 1 to the other? I have. Standard solutions just aren't that 
> standard anymore.
> 
> The LAMP stack, JEE, Spring are all different ways to do similar things. 
> Options are nice.

But Spring is not a nice option.

MySQL is all right, I guess, but there are better solutions out there.

-- 
Lew

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#8217

On 22.09.2011 17:39, Lew wrote:
> EricF wrote:
>> Arne_Vajh=F8j?= wrote:
>>> But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
>>> solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
>>> same.
>>>
>> Arne, I certainly agree with your comment in general. Personally I like Java
>> and many parts of JEE, but I'm not sure how "standard" Oracle solutions are.
>> There are several JEE servers so there are a few options - Websphere,
>> Weblogic, JBoss, Glassfish, ... I must be missing 1 or 2. But have you ever
>> ported an EJB from 1 to the other? I have. Standard solutions just aren't that
>> standard anymore.
>>
>> The LAMP stack, JEE, Spring are all different ways to do similar things.
>> Options are nice.
>
> But Spring is not a nice option.
>
> MySQL is all right, I guess, but there are better solutions out there.

That depends on the nature of the application and the load it will have 
to cope with.  I can't see any information about that in this thread but 
maybe I just missed it.

Kind regards

	robert

-- 
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

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#8222

On 9/21/2011 10:41 PM, EricF wrote:
> In article<4e7a8166$0$281$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<arne@vajhoej.dk>  wrote:
>> On 9/21/2011 12:38 AM, EricF wrote:
>>> In article<4e77f29e$0$311$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
>> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<arne@vajhoej.dk>   wrote:
>>>> On 9/18/2011 6:30 PM, Torsten Kirschner wrote:
>>>>> Den 08.09.2011 23:41, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>>>> On 9/8/2011 1:53 PM, nroberts wrote:
>>>>>>> If higher ups decided that I had to work with Tomcat...no JBoss or
>>>>>>> glassfish or anything...what limitations am I looking at?  What parts
>>>>>>> of Java EE become unavailable to me?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tomcat is a web container only (Java EE Web Profile in
>>>>>> Java EE 6 terminology).
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> You don't have EJB, JCA, JTA, JMS etc..
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Using the Spring Framework ( http://www.springsource.org/ ), one gets
>>>>> most of the above, except EJB, I guess. Add Hybernate and you're set.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think Spring has JCA.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think Spring provides JTA or JMS - it just allows to
>>>> interface other providers.
>>>>
>>>> It is Hibernate not Hybernate.
>>>>
>>>> Spring really does not provide much of the standards.
>>
>>> I do think Spring is nice but it doesn't try to provide the standards (JEE).
>>> When it first came out, it was a lot easier to use than much of the JEE
>> stack.
>>> These days JEE has been simplified.
>>
>> But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
>> solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
>> same.
>>
> Arne, I certainly agree with your comment in general. Personally I like Java
> and many parts of JEE, but I'm not sure how "standard" Oracle solutions are.
> There are several JEE servers so there are a few options - Websphere,
> Weblogic, JBoss, Glassfish, ... I must be missing 1 or 2. But have you ever
> ported an EJB from 1 to the other? I have. Standard solutions just aren't that
> standard anymore.

Java EE is a standard. WAS, WL, JBoss etc. implements that standard. 
Spring is a product that does not implement a standard.

If you have had to change anything other than server specific deployment
descriptors when moving between servers I will suspect the problem
is not in the standard but in the people in front of the keyboard.

Arne

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#8259

In article <4e7bbb12$0$283$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>On 9/21/2011 10:41 PM, EricF wrote:
>> In article<4e7a8166$0$281$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<arne@vajhoej.dk>  wrote:
>>> On 9/21/2011 12:38 AM, EricF wrote:
>>>> In article<4e77f29e$0$311$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
>>> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<arne@vajhoej.dk>   wrote:
>>>>> On 9/18/2011 6:30 PM, Torsten Kirschner wrote:
>>>>>> Den 08.09.2011 23:41, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
>>>>>>> On 9/8/2011 1:53 PM, nroberts wrote:
>>>>>>>> If higher ups decided that I had to work with Tomcat...no JBoss or
>>>>>>>> glassfish or anything...what limitations am I looking at?  What parts
>>>>>>>> of Java EE become unavailable to me?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tomcat is a web container only (Java EE Web Profile in
>>>>>>> Java EE 6 terminology).
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> You don't have EJB, JCA, JTA, JMS etc..
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using the Spring Framework ( http://www.springsource.org/ ), one gets
>>>>>> most of the above, except EJB, I guess. Add Hybernate and you're set.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think Spring has JCA.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think Spring provides JTA or JMS - it just allows to
>>>>> interface other providers.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is Hibernate not Hybernate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spring really does not provide much of the standards.
>>>
>>>> I do think Spring is nice but it doesn't try to provide the standards
> (JEE).
>>>> When it first came out, it was a lot easier to use than much of the JEE
>>> stack.
>>>> These days JEE has been simplified.
>>>
>>> But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
>>> solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
>>> same.
>>>
>> Arne, I certainly agree with your comment in general. Personally I like Java
>> and many parts of JEE, but I'm not sure how "standard" Oracle solutions are.
>> There are several JEE servers so there are a few options - Websphere,
>> Weblogic, JBoss, Glassfish, ... I must be missing 1 or 2. But have you ever
>> ported an EJB from 1 to the other? I have. Standard solutions just aren't
> that
>> standard anymore.
>
>Java EE is a standard. WAS, WL, JBoss etc. implements that standard. 
>Spring is a product that does not implement a standard.
>
>If you have had to change anything other than server specific deployment
>descriptors when moving between servers I will suspect the problem
>is not in the standard but in the people in front of the keyboard.
>
>Arne
>

I was the people in front of the keyboard. The differences were mostly JNDI 
related, specifying the datasource, etc. Not rocket science but painful if you 
have to support an application on several app servers. There were some subtle 
differences between Weblogic's JPA and Hibernate in JBoss. I wish I could 
remember what they were. Injection made the process much easier, but it can't 
be used everywhere.

Eric

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