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Re: is the java compiler written in c

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On 21/08/2015 22:51, BGB wrote:
> On 8/21/2015 2:15 AM, Eternal Hope wrote:
>> On 20/08/2015 00:12, gdotone@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 4:06:41 PM UTC-4, Eric Sosman wrote:
>>>
>>>>       Finally, I have a counter-question: Why do you care?
>>>
>>> c has many unspecified and undefines, all for the flexibility of the
>>> language, so that it can be used to solve many different problems.
>>
>> comp.lang.c is a fascinating read.
>>
>> start:
>>
>> On the one hand, any suggestion that the official C specification is
>> 'tightened up' so that the almost endless 'undefined behaviors' are more
>> rigidly defined is met with howls of protest because of the
>>
>> 'C is so powerful because you can do anything you want with it and
>> that's the way we like it'
>>
>> brigade.
>>
>
> you can tighten it up in a way which works on most targets, say, making
> 'int' always be 32 bits, ...
>
> but, this hinders use on some targets (MSP430 or AVR8) which work
> primarily on 8 and 16 bit units.
>
> granted, you probably wont use the same code on an MSP430 as you would
> on a PC, but code *could* be moved between, say, an MSP430 and a
> Cortex-M or similar.
>
> the MSP or AVR are enough unlike a PC though, to where one is generally
> better off emulating the chip (and any attached peripheral hardware),
> rather than try to rig things up to fake it on a PC via wrappers (this
> is a more common strategy for code targeting ARM based controllers).
>
>
>> On the other hand there is endless droning on about making everything
>> you do as 'portable' as possible which requires an in depth
>> understanding of undefined behavior, despite the fact that the
>> definition of undefined actually equates to 'is unknowable in a
>> particular implementation' etc etc'.
>>
>
> or, narrowing it down to a range of platforms for which it will work,
> say, 32 and 64 bit Windows and Linux.
>
>
>> If one has the temerity to post c code that does something that is
>> platform specific, or, even worse implementation specific as I have done
>> in the past you are instantly jumped on and reprimanded for a poor
>> understanding of a specification that by its very nature can never be
>> fully understood due to the almost endless undefined things.
>>
>
> more of a c.l.c thing, not so much C in general.
> most real-world code needs a pile of #ifdef's and platform specific
> sequences for anything in may run on.
>
>
>> If you then suggest that it might be time to make certain undefined
>> behavious better defined then  ...
>>
>> goto start
>>
>> You might consider this situation a dichotomy where set membership is
>> mutually exclusive. Not so, Some seem to have a foot firmly rooted in
>> both camps possibly due to some rule that determines set membership
>> imported from in a parallel universe.
>>
>> Like I say, it's  fascinating read.
>>
>
> every language has tradeoffs.

Absolutely

> like if one admits to knowing or ever using Java, then people
> automatically assume that they are doing enterprise/business computing
> stuff.

I'd have to agree with this, in fact most of my commercial experience is 
enterprise focussed. I mainly do assembler and C for pleasure (among 
other things naturally :-)

> but, in the past, I was mostly doing games stuff, as well as a lot of
> compiler/VM stuff;
> now more recently, it has moved more into a mix of embedded programming.
> generally real-time motor-controls type stuff. and some stuff on
> hardware with amazingly bad hardware stats (several MHz and a few kB of
> ROM, and *bytes* of RAM).
>
> one could be like, "how does one do anything with only a few kB of
> ROM?", but it partly is a matter of perspective. if you expect to use a
> big complex program, it wont work. if can do everything in maybe a few
> hundred lines of C (sans comments), then, say, a 2kB ROM space and 256B
> of RAM is sufficient.

Horses for courses, completely agree.

I remember running a profiller on WebLogic running a not particularly 
heavyweight application that made use of the org.w3c.dom library 
implementation in a reference implementation of the language to 
manipulate xml and discovering that upwards of a MILLION String Objects 
were being held in memory at any one time.

Not exactly embedded territory is it :-)

-- 
Laughing Spam Fritter

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is the java compiler written in c gdotone@gmail.com - 2015-08-19 12:41 -0700
  Re: is the java compiler written in c Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-08-19 16:06 -0400
    Re: is the java compiler written in c gdotone@gmail.com - 2015-08-19 16:12 -0700
      Re: is the java compiler written in c Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-20 11:08 +0000
        Re: is the java compiler written in c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-20 20:34 -0400
      Re: is the java compiler written in c Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-08-20 07:44 -0400
      Re: is the java compiler written in c e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-08-20 06:36 -0700
        Re: is the java compiler written in c gdotone@gmail.com - 2015-08-20 18:58 -0700
          Re: is the java compiler written in c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-20 22:13 -0400
            Re: is the java compiler written in c g g <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 19:57 -0700
              Re: is the java compiler written in c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-21 21:25 -0400
      Re: is the java compiler written in c Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-08-21 08:15 +0100
        Re: is the java compiler written in c e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-08-21 06:56 -0700
          Re: is the java compiler written in c Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-08-21 15:32 +0100
        Re: is the java compiler written in c BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-21 16:51 -0500
          Re: is the java compiler written in c Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-21 23:32 +0000
            Re: is the java compiler written in c BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-21 23:35 -0500
          Re: is the java compiler written in c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-21 22:39 -0400
            Re: is the java compiler written in c BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-21 22:42 -0500
              Re: is the java compiler written in c Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-22 11:41 +0000
                Re: is the java compiler written in c BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-22 10:03 -0500
              Re: is the java compiler written in c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-30 22:03 -0400
                Re: is the java compiler written in c BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-31 01:09 -0500
                Re: is the java compiler written in c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-03 20:46 -0400
                Re: is the java compiler written in c BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-04 10:01 -0500
            Re: is the java compiler written in c Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-22 11:37 +0000
              Re: is the java compiler written in c Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 12:56 +0100
                Re: is the java compiler written in c Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-22 18:04 +0000
                Re: is the java compiler written in c BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-22 14:27 -0500
              Re: is the java compiler written in c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-30 22:06 -0400
          Re: is the java compiler written in c Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 10:31 +0100
            Re: is the java compiler written in c BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-23 01:31 -0500
        Re: is the java compiler written in c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-21 22:42 -0400
          Re: is the java compiler written in c Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-22 11:53 +0000
            Re: is the java compiler written in c Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 13:11 +0100
              Re: is the java compiler written in c Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-22 17:55 +0000
                Re: is the java compiler written in c Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 19:59 +0100
            Re: is the java compiler written in c Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-08-26 09:44 -0700
              Re: is the java compiler written in c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-30 22:11 -0400
  Re: is the java compiler written in c Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-08-19 19:35 -0400

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