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Re: Using jar inside a jar

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On 1/26/2015 3:14 PM, Joerg Meier wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 09:28:14 +0000, Nigel Wade wrote:
> 
>>> Do you and me live in different realities or do I misunderstand you ?
>> Well, yes, you clearly do misunderstand me completely.
> 
>> In your scenario you describe applications as being supplied with libraries. Presumably those libraries can be 
>> upgraded/patched without it being necessary to re-download the entire application and re-install it?
> 
> Not, not other than, again, those 'big ones' like DirectX. 
> 
>> Also, if different applications share the requirement for the same library you only need to have 1 copy of that library, 
>> not a different copy for each application?
> 
> Same answer as above. The normal approach is to have multiple copies.
> 
>> Maybe Windows is different, and application developers think differently, but on Linux if I install/develop an 
>> application which, for example, requires access openSSL libraries I wouldn't expect those libraries to be statically 
>> linked into the application requiring the application to be downloaded and re-installed every time there was a change to 
>> openSSL. I would expect to be able to upgrade the library via a different route, and the application will get the latest 
>> update automatically via dynamic linking. The same applies to the "big jar" application. If any of the jar's bundled 
>> into the "big jar" were updated the application wouldn't benefit from that change until the application developer 
>> supplied you with an updated application, and you'd have to re-install the entire application all over, rather than just 
>> the updated library jar.
> 
> It turns out we really do live in different realities. I completely forgot
> about the strange way Linux handles this, despite administrating a Linux
> server. Linux really is the way you describe, and Windows really is the way
> I describe (the 'fat jar' approach, where you simply can't update
> dependencies). My apologies for being snarky.
> 
> For what it's worth, the multitude of available 'fat jar' solutions should
> be evidence enough that fat jars are a very common path for releasing Java
> applications to end users.
> 
> Liebe Gruesse,
> 		Joerg
> 		
> ps.: Interestingly, I always perceived the Linux way as the inferiour
> solution that is only really convenient for relatively low level computer
> use by the typical user. As soon as one wants current versions of software,
> let alone try a beta version, one runs into a nightmarish world of
> dependency hell, snapshot nonsense, package maintainers and their refusal
> to cooperate and genrally total dependency on ones distro, whereas on
> Windows, I'd just click on "Download exe" and be done with it 30 seconds
> later.
> 
> At least that was my personal experience. Please don't take it as a slam of
> Linux, which I love and much prefer over Windows on the server side of
> things. The package managers are leaps and bounds ahead of Windows for 98%
> of use cases.
> 

Joerg,

You can install software outside of the Linux package managers - I've
done it when I need a version not otherwise available.  What you lose is
the ability to maintain the software via the distro's package system,
bringing you closer to what Windows has.

The problem you could run into is when the software you're trying to
install requires a different version (i.e. newer) than something else
(like the compiler) that is installed on your system.  You can run into
dependency hell then.

Or you can go with something like slackware Linux, which has no real
package system - you're responsible for everything, like on Windows.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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Thread

Using jar inside a jar Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-01-22 11:48 +0100
  Re: Using jar inside a jar Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-01-22 11:28 +0000
    Re: Using jar inside a jar Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> - 2015-01-22 13:05 +0100
      Re: Using jar inside a jar Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2015-01-22 13:46 +0100
        Re: Using jar inside a jar Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-22 08:15 -0500
          Re: Using jar inside a jar Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2015-01-22 16:30 +0100
        Re: Using jar inside a jar Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-01-22 14:18 +0000
          Re: Using jar inside a jar Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2015-01-22 16:29 +0100
            Re: Using jar inside a jar Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-01-23 11:10 +0000
              Re: Using jar inside a jar Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2015-01-23 13:12 +0100
                Re: Using jar inside a jar Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-01-23 15:46 +0000
                Re: Using jar inside a jar Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-01-23 11:18 -0500
                Re: Using jar inside a jar Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2015-01-23 22:42 +0100
                Re: Using jar inside a jar Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-01-23 17:02 -0500
                Re: Using jar inside a jar Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2015-01-24 14:14 +0100
                Re: Using jar inside a jar Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-01-24 15:33 +0000
                Re: Using jar inside a jar Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-01-26 09:28 +0000
                Re: Using jar inside a jar Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2015-01-26 21:14 +0100
                Re: Using jar inside a jar Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-01-26 15:23 -0500
                Re: Using jar inside a jar Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-01-28 14:19 +0000
              Re: Using jar inside a jar Andreas Leitgeb <avl@auth.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2015-01-24 11:46 +0000
        Re: Using jar inside a jar Wayne <nospam@all.invalid> - 2015-01-23 00:47 -0500
        Re: Using jar inside a jar Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2015-01-23 12:28 +0100
      Re: Using jar inside a jar Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-01-22 14:18 +0000

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