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Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop?

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  Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-04-02 11:46 -0700
    Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-02 15:04 -0400
      Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-04-03 00:36 -0400
        Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-03 00:46 -0400
    Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-02 12:09 -0700
      Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-02 12:48 -0700
      Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-02 18:08 -0400
        Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-02 12:11 -1000
          Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-02 17:04 -0700
            Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-02 20:29 -0400
              Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-02 17:47 -0700
              Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-02 15:27 -1000
                Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-03 00:19 -0400
                  Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-02 18:35 -1000
                    Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-03 00:45 -0400
                      Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-02 23:56 -0700
                        Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-03 04:07 -0400
                      Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-03 08:44 +0000
    Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-04-03 00:37 -0400
      Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-02 21:46 -0700
        Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-02 22:18 -0700
      Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-03 00:49 -0400
    Re: Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2015-04-03 17:39 -0700

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#37845 — Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop?

Times are changing.

April 1, 2015: Google announced a USB stick that plugs in to any display to create a computer. It needs a TV screen and a Bluetooth keyboard to be complete:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EVxdT4mOag

And here another hardware video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTOR-1iulC0

Hardware is in. Will there be Forth on Google's Chrome computer stick? 

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#37846

On 4/2/2015 2:46 PM, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote:
> Times are changing.
>
> April 1, 2015: Google announced a USB stick that plugs in to any display to create a computer. It needs a TV screen and a Bluetooth keyboard to be complete:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EVxdT4mOag
>
> And here another hardware video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTOR-1iulC0
>
> Hardware is in. Will there be Forth on Google's Chrome computer stick?

I fail to see the significance of this computer on a stick.  They are 
already available from many sources.  They are essentially a Raspberry 
Pi in a nice package.  Nothing remarkable there.

As to Forth, isn't Forth available for nearly every OS?  So which OS 
will you run on your PC on a stick?  That will let you pick your Forth...

-- 

Rick

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#37867

On Thu, 02 Apr 2015 15:04:11 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/2/2015 2:46 PM, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote:

>> Times are changing.
>>
>> April 1, 2015: Google announced a USB stick that plugs in to any  
>> display to create a computer. It needs a TV screen and a Bluetooth  
>> keyboard to be complete:
>>
>> And here another hardware video:  
>> Hardware is in. Will there be Forth on Google's Chrome computer stick?
>
> I fail to see the significance of this computer on a stick.

Google.

That's the significance.

$66 billion in revenue.
$64 billion in cash.

Almost all others who push novelty product like this are
small fry, except Apple.


Rod Pemberton

-- 
Cars kill more people than guns in the U.S.
Yet, no one is trying to take away your car.

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#37871

On 4/3/2015 12:36 AM, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Apr 2015 15:04:11 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 4/2/2015 2:46 PM, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote:
>
>>> Times are changing.
>>>
>>> April 1, 2015: Google announced a USB stick that plugs in to any
>>> display to create a computer. It needs a TV screen and a Bluetooth
>>> keyboard to be complete:
>>>
>>> And here another hardware video: Hardware is in. Will there be Forth
>>> on Google's Chrome computer stick?
>>
>> I fail to see the significance of this computer on a stick.
>
> Google.
>
> That's the significance.
>
> $66 billion in revenue.
> $64 billion in cash.
>
> Almost all others who push novelty product like this are
> small fry, except Apple.

Yes, I guess that is why we are all wearing Google Glass...

-- 

Rick

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#37847

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-7, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:

> Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop?

Don't buy into the hype. 
I started a Google Adwords campaign with a website client
of mine recently, and I will swear on my mothers grave that 
we get more traffic from desktops than from cell phones, 
still, even after everybody from Gizmag to Slashdot promises
that this is the age of the cell phone, and that PCs are becoming
obsolete.

Seriously, an old and tried method of advertising was and
probably still is to talk to magazine article writers and
get them to write about your product.  If you can get the
writers to inform people about your "truth" then people will
start to believe said "truth.  But it may just be marketing
hype.  

In reality, people in developed countries want EVERYTHING!
So, they want the TV, the PC, the PAD AND the Phone. It's
often more convenient to browse for long periods of time
on the PC, and to do short stints of browsing on the Phone.

Remember, Radio never really died until the cell phone
came long, it just took a back seat to TV while TV was in
it's prime.   But there still are radio stations, and a few
years ago I even had bite on the line to do some work for
a new radio station coming up.  But, they didn't want to pay
me anything.

You get the idea.

Jason

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#37848

Another thing is that there are these TV-Boxes or
that's what I call them.  The most famous examples
are Apple TV and Roku.  What it is, is a computer
which connects to your TV and the internet, and
which is used to stream videos from the internet
to your TV.  You might think, why the heck do that
when I already have a PC.  But people buy these things
and use them.  I even had a Roku for awhile.  The
truth is, that the reality of these devices fall
far far below their actually potential.  I remember
loving my Roku, but wishing that it could do 2000%
times as much as it did, and thinking that there was
no good excuse for it not being able to do so.  I
wondered why there was no channel through the Roku 
which simply was cartoons which were paid for with
commercials, sort of like old Saturday Morning
cartoons in the U.S. with commercials for sugary 
cereals and plastic toys interspersed between the
cartoons.  So much potential and no Flintstones.

There you go.

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#37852

On 4/2/2015 3:09 PM, Jason Damisch wrote:
> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-7, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop?
>
> Don't buy into the hype.
> I started a Google Adwords campaign with a website client
> of mine recently, and I will swear on my mothers grave that
> we get more traffic from desktops than from cell phones,
> still, even after everybody from Gizmag to Slashdot promises
> that this is the age of the cell phone, and that PCs are becoming
> obsolete.

Don't confuse how many are sold with how many are being used.  Yeah, 
some people are not only using desktops, they are using 10 year old 
desktops!  I would be willing to bet that when they finally buy a new 
machine they get a laptop or tablet.  I expect most will go with the 
laptop because it might still run the software they've been using for 10 
years.

-- 

Rick

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#37853

On 4/2/15 12:08 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 4/2/2015 3:09 PM, Jason Damisch wrote:
>> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-7,
>> visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hardware: Does anyone still need a desktop?
>>
>> Don't buy into the hype.
>> I started a Google Adwords campaign with a website client
>> of mine recently, and I will swear on my mothers grave that
>> we get more traffic from desktops than from cell phones,
>> still, even after everybody from Gizmag to Slashdot promises
>> that this is the age of the cell phone, and that PCs are becoming
>> obsolete.
>
> Don't confuse how many are sold with how many are being used.  Yeah,
> some people are not only using desktops, they are using 10 year old
> desktops!  I would be willing to bet that when they finally buy a new
> machine they get a laptop or tablet.  I expect most will go with the
> laptop because it might still run the software they've been using for 10
> years.
>

Busnesses still like desktops for their staff because they're less 
likely to walk away.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#37857

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 3:11:23 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:

> Busnesses still like desktops for their staff because they're less 
> likely to walk away.

LOL

And its kinda hard to type fast on a little touchscreen.

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#37859

On 4/2/2015 8:04 PM, Jason Damisch wrote:
> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 3:11:23 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>
>> Busnesses still like desktops for their staff because they're less
>> likely to walk away.
>
> LOL
>
> And its kinda hard to type fast on a little touchscreen.

Waiters and waitresses seem to handle it.  Also I am often checked out 
on a tablet running the Square I believe.  I'm a bit surprised actually 
just how fast the tablets have shown up in retail uses.

BTW, did Google buy the Square?  I seem to recall that when I pay with a 
credit card they send an e-receipt to my Google email address.  Or did I 
give them that email the first time I used it and just don't recall?

-- 

Rick

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#37860

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 5:29:31 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote:

> Waiters and waitresses seem to handle it.  Also I am often checked out 
> on a tablet running the Square I believe. 

I go to an independant coffee kiosk about once a week, and they
use a Square, which is a thing that they plug into a Pad computer
which has a connector that looks like a headphone plug.  They
often complain that it doesn't work right, and they have to 
unplug it and plug it back in to get it to work sometimes.

Jason

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#37862

On 4/2/15 2:29 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 4/2/2015 8:04 PM, Jason Damisch wrote:
>> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 3:11:23 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Busnesses still like desktops for their staff because they're less
>>> likely to walk away.
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> And its kinda hard to type fast on a little touchscreen.
>
> Waiters and waitresses seem to handle it.  Also I am often checked out
> on a tablet running the Square I believe.  I'm a bit surprised actually
> just how fast the tablets have shown up in retail uses.

Waiters use an app that lets them tap a square for the item being 
ordered, without much typing. Other tablet apps are similar. Uses that 
require a lot of typing still benefit from having a keyboard and a big 
screen.

> BTW, did Google buy the Square?  I seem to recall that when I pay with a
> credit card they send an e-receipt to my Google email address.  Or did I
> give them that email the first time I used it and just don't recall?

So far, Square is an independent company. But if you ever gave them your 
google email addr, they'll remember it every time you use that card.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#37865

On 4/2/2015 9:27 PM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 4/2/15 2:29 PM, rickman wrote:
>> On 4/2/2015 8:04 PM, Jason Damisch wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 3:11:23 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Busnesses still like desktops for their staff because they're less
>>>> likely to walk away.
>>>
>>> LOL
>>>
>>> And its kinda hard to type fast on a little touchscreen.
>>
>> Waiters and waitresses seem to handle it.  Also I am often checked out
>> on a tablet running the Square I believe.  I'm a bit surprised actually
>> just how fast the tablets have shown up in retail uses.
>
> Waiters use an app that lets them tap a square for the item being
> ordered, without much typing. Other tablet apps are similar. Uses that
> require a lot of typing still benefit from having a keyboard and a big
> screen.

Isn't that pretty irrelevant?  The point is that they use one desktop in 
the office and everyone else has their own wifi tablet to do what they 
need to do.  N tablets to one desktop.

-- 

Rick

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#37866

On 4/2/15 6:19 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 4/2/2015 9:27 PM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>> On 4/2/15 2:29 PM, rickman wrote:
>>> On 4/2/2015 8:04 PM, Jason Damisch wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 3:11:23 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Busnesses still like desktops for their staff because they're less
>>>>> likely to walk away.
>>>>
>>>> LOL
>>>>
>>>> And its kinda hard to type fast on a little touchscreen.
>>>
>>> Waiters and waitresses seem to handle it.  Also I am often checked out
>>> on a tablet running the Square I believe.  I'm a bit surprised actually
>>> just how fast the tablets have shown up in retail uses.
>>
>> Waiters use an app that lets them tap a square for the item being
>> ordered, without much typing. Other tablet apps are similar. Uses that
>> require a lot of typing still benefit from having a keyboard and a big
>> screen.
>
> Isn't that pretty irrelevant?  The point is that they use one desktop in
> the office and everyone else has their own wifi tablet to do what they
> need to do.  N tablets to one desktop.
>
That obviously depends on the business, or even the part of the 
business. The back office of a restaurant (purchasing, scheduling, 
marketing, personnel, ...) may have a bunch of desktops. The point is, 
desktops are still the workhorses of many businesses, research outfits, 
etc.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#37869

On 4/3/2015 12:35 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 4/2/15 6:19 PM, rickman wrote:
>> On 4/2/2015 9:27 PM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>>> On 4/2/15 2:29 PM, rickman wrote:
>>>> On 4/2/2015 8:04 PM, Jason Damisch wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 3:11:23 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Busnesses still like desktops for their staff because they're less
>>>>>> likely to walk away.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL
>>>>>
>>>>> And its kinda hard to type fast on a little touchscreen.
>>>>
>>>> Waiters and waitresses seem to handle it.  Also I am often checked out
>>>> on a tablet running the Square I believe.  I'm a bit surprised actually
>>>> just how fast the tablets have shown up in retail uses.
>>>
>>> Waiters use an app that lets them tap a square for the item being
>>> ordered, without much typing. Other tablet apps are similar. Uses that
>>> require a lot of typing still benefit from having a keyboard and a big
>>> screen.
>>
>> Isn't that pretty irrelevant?  The point is that they use one desktop in
>> the office and everyone else has their own wifi tablet to do what they
>> need to do.  N tablets to one desktop.
>>
> That obviously depends on the business, or even the part of the
> business. The back office of a restaurant (purchasing, scheduling,
> marketing, personnel, ...) may have a bunch of desktops. The point is,
> desktops are still the workhorses of many businesses, research outfits,
> etc.

I think you are showing a bias toward what has been without accepting 
that it is often superfluous now.  Whatever "workhorse" means, there is 
a valid analogy there.  Horses can still do things cars can't.  But they 
have largely been replaced by cars, trucks and all manner of in-between. 
  In the same way, computing is not so much about computing anymore and 
is largely computationally simple tasks with good user interfaces and 
access from many different types of portals.

Desktops are limited devices in *many* ways.  They have one strength, 
computing power, which is becoming less and less a distinguishing 
feature.  Portability and ease of use will become the dominate feature 
of most computing devices in the very near future.  But you can reject 
portable devices because they can't crunch numbers like a desktop... but 
then who really needs that?  How long is a typical Forth compile?  Heck, 
one of the big selling points of the new quad CPU rPi is that it reduces 
the compile time of programs to something much closer to a desktop...  :)

The future is here... even if Gavino can't see it.

-- 

Rick

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#37876

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> Desktops are limited devices in *many* ways.  They have one strength,
> computing power,

Nobody even cares about that any more.  Problems needing a lot of
computing power are often better done on a server or a cluster of
servers, not a desktop.  The main attraction of a business desktop is
you can set it up with a comfortable full-travel keyboard and a big
(e.g. 30 inch) screen.  You can plug a keyboard and screen into a laptop
too, though of course, so laptops have widely replaced desktops in
offices.  The remaining big ability of desktops at home is putting in
powerful graphics cards for shoot-em-up computer gaming.

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#37878

On 4/3/2015 2:56 AM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> Desktops are limited devices in *many* ways.  They have one strength,
>> computing power,
>
> Nobody even cares about that any more.  Problems needing a lot of
> computing power are often better done on a server or a cluster of
> servers, not a desktop.  The main attraction of a business desktop is
> you can set it up with a comfortable full-travel keyboard and a big
> (e.g. 30 inch) screen.  You can plug a keyboard and screen into a laptop
> too, though of course, so laptops have widely replaced desktops in
> offices.  The remaining big ability of desktops at home is putting in
> powerful graphics cards for shoot-em-up computer gaming.

What?  You can add a keyboard to *any* computing device I have ever 
seen.  Most devices let you add a monitor if needed, even  7" tablets 
and the $35 rPi.

-- 

Rick

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#37879

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>Desktops are limited devices in *many* ways.  They have one strength, 
>computing power, which is becoming less and less a distinguishing 
>feature.

Computing power is becoming less important, yes, but it's not the only
strength of desktops.  The main strengths I see are screen size,
keyboard layout, and extensibility/modularity (if I need a new
graphics card, I don't need to buy a new laptop).

Concerning computing power, I often log into my laptop from my desktop
to do some things.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/

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#37868

On Thu, 02 Apr 2015 14:46:38 -0400, <visualforth@rocketmail.com> wrote:

> Times are changing.
>
> April 1, 2015: Google announced a USB stick that plugs in to any display  
> to create a computer. It needs a TV screen and a Bluetooth keyboard to  
> be complete:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EVxdT4mOag
>
> And here another hardware video:  
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTOR-1iulC0
>
> Hardware is in. Will there be Forth on Google's Chrome computer stick?

I'm sure they put something in the license to prohibit that.
Oh, sorry, April fools was over a day ago ...  ;-)

It won't be long until compact computers are integrated into
every new TV.  They're already in your smartphone.  I'm still
not sure why we didn't start seeing this five years ago ...


Rod Pemberton

-- 
Cars kill more people than guns in the U.S.
Yet, no one is trying to take away your car.

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#37870

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 9:37:33 PM UTC-7, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> It won't be long until compact computers are integrated into
> every new TV.  They're already in your smartphone.  I'm still
> not sure why we didn't start seeing this five years ago ...

I don't own a TV, so that leaves me out.

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