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OT: translation of "sonderkommando"

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  OT: translation of "sonderkommando" hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-11-17 15:23 -0800
    Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" - <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-17 19:05 -0500
      Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-11-26 17:24 -0800
        Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-11-27 00:27 -0800
          Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-11-27 14:42 -0800
            Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) - 2014-11-27 20:05 -0300
              Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-11-28 20:49 -0800
                Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) - 2014-11-29 06:38 -0300
        Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-11-27 05:04 -0500
          Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2014-11-27 17:04 +0100
    Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-11-18 00:56 -0800
      Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-11-18 14:21 +0000
        Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-11-18 19:16 +0100
          Re: OT: translation of "sonderkommando" albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-11-19 02:21 +0000
    Re:OT: translation of "sonderkommando" Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-11-18 23:28 +0100

#34468 — OT: translation of "sonderkommando"

For the German speakers here: what does "sonderkommando" mean?

I tried internet translation programs and got "task force" --- also, "sonder" means "special," so "special soldier" could also be a translation. This seems rather vague though --- special in what way?

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#34469

On Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:23:30 -0500, <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> wrote:

> For the German speakers here: what does "sonderkommando" mean?
>
> I tried internet translation programs and got "task force" --- also,  
> "sonder" means "special," so "special soldier" could also be a  
> translation. This seems rather vague though --- special in what way?

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/revolt/sonderevolt.html

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#34661

On Monday, November 17, 2014 5:05:35 PM UTC-7, - wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:23:30 -0500, <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > For the German speakers here: what does "sonderkommando" mean?
> >
> > I tried internet translation programs and got "task force" --- also,  
> > "sonder" means "special," so "special soldier" could also be a  
> > translation. This seems rather vague though --- special in what way?
> 
> http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/revolt/sonderevolt.html

I visited that webpage and it discussed the sonderkommando revolt in Auschwitz-Birkenau that I was already familiar with. When I tried to go to the home page, Google stopped me with a warning that the site has been discovered to attempt to install malware programs on the user's computer that may steal or delete information from the hard-disk
--- DO NOT VISIT THIS WEBSITE! --- this appears to be an Israeli site!

Aside from the malware issue, the website seem to just be promoting the idea that the Jews revolted routinely against the SS. I didn't actually visit any other webpages on the site because of the malware issue, but the titles of all the pages indicated that they were about revolts by the Jews against the SS. This is a fantasy, there were only a handful of revolts, and the only one that was successful was the one at Sobibor.

What brought on my question, was that I read the book: "Auschwitz: a New History" (Laurence Rees). There was only one sonderkommando revolt discussed at Auschwitz, which is the same one discussed on this webpage (10/7/1944), and it fizzled out because Jews snitched off the rebels to the SS prior to the revolt. AFAIK, the only successful sonderkommando revolt was the one at Sobibor (made into a movie that I also saw), and that revolt only succeeded because the SS made the mistake of bringing non-Jew Soviet POWs to Sobibor to do hard labor and the non-Jews provided leadership that the Jews lacked. In the movie it was explained that the Jews couldn't lead themselves because they were civilians lacking military discipline, but this argument neglects to consider that the Soviet POWs had been civilians before the war too --- the Jews couldn't lead themselves because of psychological failings that had nothing to do with being civilians.

The book also discussed other camps, including Belzac. This camp, unlike Auschwitz-Birkenau, was only for death and not for labor. Belzac was quite small: about 300 meters square. The death toll was 600,000. Remarkably, there were only 20 SS soldiers working at Belzac. There were about 100 Ukrainian POWs who had volunteered to switch sides and work for the Nazis rather than languish in a POW camp, and there were several hundred Jewish sonderkommando. Realistically, those 20 SS didn't kill 600,000 Jews --- the Jews had them out-numbered by 30,000:1, which makes a human-wave assault feasible --- it was the Jews' corrupt culture that induced them to kill their own people and defeat themselves. Every Jew's highest desire was to become a "kapo" and get to be in charge of the other prisoners' lives, including deciding who would live and who would die. Also, there were perks associated with being a kapo (Auschwitz had a brothel and swimming pool, etc. for the cooperative Jews' entertainment). I also read the book: "Am I a murderer?" (Calel Perechodnik). Perechodnik was a "ghetto policeman," which is essentially the same as a kapo except in the ghetto rather than in the death camp. He wrote the book to warn people against cooperating with one's enemies for personal gain, which was his own sin that he regretted. The book's title is a reference to the fact that he sent a great number of Jews, including his wife and daughter, to Treblinka knowing that it was a death camp. Somewhat belatedly, after the war, he realized that he was in fact a murderer. He tried to join the Red Army but they refused him because they considered him to be an enemy combatant. Then he got sick and, because he was considered to be part of the Nazi military, he was denied health care --- he wrote the book on his death bed as a last lament. He had a non-Jew friend deliver the manuscript to his brother who had spent the war in Canada so that it could be published. His brother wanted to immigrate to Israel however, and he handed the manuscript over to the Israelis and promised not to publish it, in exchange for getting Israeli citizenship. The Israelis kept the manuscript hidden for 50 years because it indicted the Jewish people for their own destruction, but then the manuscript was released because it was believed that being 50 years old it could no longer have any effect on Israel, so it got published --- then I bought a copy of the book out of the discount box at Border's Bookstore for about $3 (saving the book from getting destroyed, which is the next step down from the discount box).

Two sonderkommando at Auschwitz (Dario Gabbai and Morris Venezia) described what it was like:
D.G.: "After a while you don't know nothing --- nothing bothers you. That's why your conscience gets inside of you and stays there until today. What happened? Why did we do such a thing? ...you always find the strength to live for the next day, [because the desire for life is so] powerful."
M.V.: " ...we became animals too ... everyday is burning dead bodies, every day, every day, every day. You get used to it. ...we feel that we should kill ourselves and not work for the Germans. But even to kill yourself is not so easy."
D.G.: "There were times when the transports were fifty people, and we had to take them, bring them one by one by the ears, and the SS [men] will shoot them in the back. [There was] a lot of blood."
The book goes on to explain how Dario and Morris lived in relatively nice accommodations away from the regular prisoners, where they would talk about their previous lives, sing Greek songs, and drink vodka. They had access to the valuables stolen from the dead prisoners (one of their jobs was to search the orifices of the corpses for hidden jewelry). The food was better and they could trade the stolen valuables for delicacies such as salami, cigarettes and alcohol.

So, once again, my question is: What was so "special" about the sonderkommando? They seem to be pretty typical soldiers, drafted into the army and given an unpleasant job, but making the best of it. During WWII, America drafted our boys into the U.S. Army. Many of them may have felt queasy about the fire-bombing of Dresden, Tokyo, etc., that targeted women and children, but they couldn't leave the Army because going AWOL is a felony that can result in getting executed. During the Vietnam war, America drafted our boys into the the U.S. Army. Many of them may have felt queasy about the napalming of villages, that targeted women and children, but they couldn't leave the Army because going AWOL is a felony that can result in getting executed. So what is special about Dario and Morris and all of the other sonderkommando? They seem to be pretty typical soldiers.

Ultimately, everybody has a choice.

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#34662

On Thursday, 27 November 2014 01:24:23 UTC, hughag...@yahoo.com  wrote:
So what is special about Dario and Morris and all of the other sonderkommando? They seem to be pretty typical soldiers.

I think you just answered your own question there. Does a soldier
*want* to kill people? Of course not. It's kill or be killed.
Would these two individuals want to kill people? Of course not.
It's kill or be killed.

I'm not a religeous person, but thank God that I never haved to live
through anything like that. 

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#34673

On Thursday, November 27, 2014 1:27:22 AM UTC-7, Mark Wills wrote:
> On Thursday, 27 November 2014 01:24:23 UTC, hughag...@yahoo.com  wrote:
> So what is special about Dario and Morris and all of the other sonderkommando? They seem to be pretty typical soldiers.
> 
> I think you just answered your own question there. Does a soldier
> *want* to kill people? Of course not. It's kill or be killed.
> Would these two individuals want to kill people? Of course not.
> It's kill or be killed.
> 
> I'm not a religeous person, but thank God that I never haved to live
> through anything like that.

Both Britain and America have pretty sordid histories, and there is no indication that this is going to change, so don't thank God yet --- either or both of us may yet have to live through something like the Holocaust, as we are both in our 40s and have another 40 to go, which is a long time during which much can happen --- we may yet have to make the difficult decisions...

I think that what got the Jews into trouble was their claim to be the "Chosen People" of God --- pretty big talk there! --- but when they were put under pressure, they collapsed as if God had neglected to give them spines.

Today is Thanksgiving --- so thank God for giving you a spine --- but that is about all the thanks that God deserves.

20 years ago, prior to ANS-Forth getting written in stone, Ray Duncan was describing aspects of ANS-Forth as being "brain-dead."
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/olO-VHXJa1Q%5B1-25-false%5D
Then ANS-Forth came out, and Ray Duncan gave up on Forth entirely, apparently considering Forth to be a lost cause. But, for the next 20 years, Ray Duncan's name was displayed prominently at the top of the ANS-Forth document as a contributor. Elizabeth Rather is stealing his fame for her own purposes --- and Ray Duncan does have fame for UR/Forth, which was the only professional Forth system available for MS-DOS, as PolyForth was considered to be nothing more than a toy. 

Similarly, we see that Stephen Pelc's name is displayed prominently at the top of the ANS-Forth document as a contributor. Pelc is actually aware of the many short-comings of ANS-Forth, as he fixes them in VFX, but he fixes them in a non-standard way so VFX programs can't be ported over to any ANS-Forth system when features are used that can't be written in ANS-Forth. Pelc has essentially become a sonderkommando --- he contributed his name to ANS-Forth even though he knows that doing so promotes Forth Inc. unduly, and is against his own best interest. Pelc should have dropped out of ANS-Forth similarly to how I dropped out of Forth-200x --- sometimes you just have to be your own leader.

I recommend that everybody drop out of Forth-200x --- grow a spine! --- don't be a sonderkommando for Forth Inc.. What has Forth Inc. ever done for you? What has ANS-Forth ever done for the Forth community, except mark 1994 as Forth's demise?

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#34674

 On 27 Nov 14 at group /comp/lang/forth in article ce60c69b-f211-4e8c-a254-de8d726cc2e8@googlegroups.com
 <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com>   wrote:

>I recommend that everybody drop out of Forth-200x --- grow a spine!
>--- don't be a sonderkommando for Forth Inc..

I recommend that everybody call you a
`gebohnertes krummbohrtes Sonderarschloch`

SCNR


Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

-- 
Wolfgang Allinger, anerkannter Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit)      iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

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#34682

On Thursday, November 27, 2014 4:06:17 PM UTC-7, Wolfgang Allinger wrote:
> On 27 Nov 14 at group /comp/lang/forth in article ce60c69b-f211-4e8c-a254-de8d726cc2e8@googlegroups.com
>  <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com>   wrote:
> 
> >I recommend that everybody drop out of Forth-200x --- grow a spine!
> >--- don't be a sonderkommando for Forth Inc..
> 
> I recommend that everybody call you a
> `gebohnertes krummbohrtes Sonderarschloch`

ANS-Forth is a cult. The mandate for the ANS-Forth standard was that SwiftForth would be standard without any change whatsoever. Elizabeth Rather didn't want to just declare that SwiftForth was the standard, because that would obviously be nothing more than a steaming pile of salesmanship, and nobody would take the "standard" seriously --- so she surrounded herself with sonderkommando who would pretend to contribute to the standard in exchange for getting their names put in the ANS-Forth document. This plan didn't work very well --- nobody took ANS-Forth seriously --- ANS-Forth effectively killed the Forth language. Now, 20 years later, her sonderkommando are on comp.lang.forth flinging vulgar homosexual insults at anybody who points out any of the myriad problems in ANS-Forth (I translated your insult, and it was very gay --- you're a culero!).

An example of a failure of ANS-Forth, comes from the fact that Elizabeth Rather doesn't know what a cache is, although all the desktop-computer processors of the early 1990s (Pentium, PowerPC, etc.) had caches. Unfortunately, SwiftForth was a port of an old 1970s-vintage Forth that Charles Moore wrote, Because of this, SwiftForth mixes code and data together. Anybody with any assembly-language experience knows that this is a bad idea because you end up with code in the data cache and data in the code cache. Because SwiftForth couldn't be changed however, the ANS-Forth standard had to specify mixed code and data as being standard. SwiftForth is like a boat anchor that held down the entire Forth community to Elizabeth Rather's level of ignorance --- this is why nobody took ANS-Forth seriously in the real world --- ANS-Forth is only taken seriously on comp.lang.forth.

In this thread:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/g1_Zj6g_WIM%5B1-25-false%5D
Stephen Pelc and I had this exchange:

On Friday, September 19, 2014 2:59:35 AM UTC-7, ste...@mpeforth.com wrote:
> On Friday, 19 September 2014 01:14:44 UTC+1, hughag...@yahoo.com  wrote:
> >I have found that VFX does mix code and data, which is quite amazing to
> >me --- I would have expected Stephen Pelc to understand that this will
> >result in cache thrashing due to having data in a code-cache line and code
> >in a data-cache line --- apparently not though!
> 
> It's discussed in the manual. However, we have learned that world-class
> super-hero programmers such as Hugh cannot be bothered to read manuals.
> For a clue, see the words +IDATA and -IDATA.
> 
> Stephen

+IDATA and -IDATA are highly non-standard --- these words can't be written in ANS-Forth. Also, their use makes VFX programs non-standard. So, if Pelc knew that code and data should be separated (everybody knows this), then why didn't he require that this be standardized back in 1994? The reason, is that he was just a sonderkommando with zero authority, and he did what Elizabeth Rather told him to do --- if he had complained, she would have kicked him out, and he wouldn't have gotten his name listed prominently at the top of the ANS-Forth document (alongside Forth luminaries such as Ray Duncan and Charles Moore).

Anyway, I read the VFX manual; it explains what a mess this ad-hoc bug-fix is:

21.9.3 Gotchas

When +IDATA is in use, standard defining words such as VARIABLE and VALUE will reserve space in the IDATA areas, but ALLOT still reserves space in the dictionary. Consequently code such as:

VARIABLE <name> <size> ALLOT

will break when +IDATA is active. Use:

<size> BUFFER: <name>

for all such allocations.

Words such as >BODY and BODY> will not work correctly on words whose data area is in an IDATA region.

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#34683

 On 28 Nov 14 at group /comp/lang/forth in article cf52efc8-8643-41e1-afa7-05b9c6f17e9d@googlegroups.com
 <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com>   wrote:

>On Thursday, November 27, 2014 4:06:17 PM UTC-7, Wolfgang Allinger
>> wrote: On 27 Nov 14 at group /comp/lang/forth in article
>>  ce60c69b-f211-4e8c-a254-de8d726cc2e8@googlegroups.com
>>  <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com>   wrote:
>>
>>>I recommend that everybody drop out of Forth-200x --- grow a spine!
>>>--- don't be a sonderkommando for Forth Inc..
>>
>> I recommend that everybody call you a
>> `gebohnertes krummbohrtes Sonderarschloch`

>ANS-Forth is a cult.

I`m not shure.

For shure you are a Sonderarschloch




Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

-- 
Wolfgang Allinger, anerkannter Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit)      iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

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#34663

On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 20:24:21 -0500, <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> wrote:

> So, once again, my question is: What was so "special" about the  
> sonderkommando? They seem to be pretty typical soldiers, drafted into  
> the army and given an unpleasant job, but making the best of it. During  
> WWII, America drafted our boys into the U.S. Army. Many of them may have  
> felt queasy about the fire-bombing of Dresden, Tokyo, etc., that  
> targeted women and children, but they couldn't leave the Army because  
> going AWOL is a felony that can result in getting executed. During the  
> Vietnam war, America drafted our boys into the the U.S. Army. Many of  
> them may have felt queasy about the napalming of villages, that targeted  
> women and children, but they couldn't leave the Army because going AWOL  
> is a felony that can result in getting executed. So what is special  
> about Dario and Morris and all of the other sonderkommando? They seem to  
> be pretty typical soldiers.

The Sonderkommando were "drafted"?  They were prisoners used as slave  
labor.
If you disregard the fact they were locked up, you might be able to make  
the
claim of being "drafted" for German Jews, but not for the Jews of countries
Germany invaded, like Hungary and Poland.  You simply can't draft citizens
of other countries.  You generally can't draft your own country's prisoners
either.  You have to be free to be when drafted and free after the service.

> So, once again, my question is: What was so "special" about the  
> sonderkommando?

So, Hugh, are you really this thick? ...

Howerd answered this question by calling it "sardonic" language.

You're familiar with the term blue comedy, yes?  What about dark humor?
One form of Dark humor:

"... examples in which the comedy is used to mock the victim, whose
suffering is trivialized, ..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_comedy

Nazi's had a perverse, evil, darkly humorous, at least to the Nazi's,
way of phrasing issues related to their "Final Solution."  Wikipedia
politely calls it a "vague" and "euphemistic" language on their
SonderKommando page.  The Jews are constantly being mocked by the
Nazi's via the Nazi's names for things.  Keep that in mind.

Buchenwald, the name of a concentration camp where people are locked
behind barbed wire, gassed, shot or burned, means "beech forest," a
forest of beautiful beech trees.  You'd say that's rather dark humor,
yes?  It's a bit like calling Chernobyl an idyllic vacation paradise
because the crowds are very minimal, the water is clear, ...

The slogan "Jedem das Seine" is over the main gate of Buchenwald means
"to each his own,", but figuratively means in context: "you've truly
earned what's coming to you such as a brutal death we're going to give
you but only after we've starved you nearly to death."

The slogan "Arbeit mach frei" is over the entrances to multiple Nazi
concentration camps and literally means: "work makes free," but
figuratively means in context: "lazy, greedy Jews who've never worked
a day in their lives are going to be worked to death here."  Obviously,
"free" is a euphemism for your life ending in "death."

The bureau which delivered the Zyklon B pellets was called the
"Hygienic Institute."  I.e., that's another Nazi euphemism, meaning:
"it's hygenic for us to get rid of these filthy Jews."

The term "Sonderkommandos" literally means "special unit," but
figuratively means in context: "you're a 'special' group of people
since we're going to let you live for a while, and you're 'special'
since you get to do the dirtiest, most vile work we've got, and you're
'special' since you get to be tormented by the horrors of being forced
to handle, bury, mutilate, and rob the corpses of other dead Jews and
your own deceased loved ones, before we kill you too."

So, they're "special" in the sense they carried out the acts of the
"Final Solution" upon other Jews, unlike other "Kommandos" or slave
labor units used for woodworking, factory work, kitchen work, etc.

Are you beginning to understand know?


Rod Pemberton

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#34668

Rod Pemberton <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> wrote:

> ...

Just like to add that jews and others weren't even considered human
beings, and were treated like vermin.
Thinking that their situation was comparable to regular soldiers is
ignorant beyond stupidity.
Anyway - Hugh saw another chance to blame the Jews for something, end
of story.

> Are you beginning to understand know?

I think that our Nietzi neither has the will nor the brains to do so.

(btw: i think you meant to write "now" ;)

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#34479

On Monday, November 17, 2014 11:23:32 PM UTC, hughag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> For the German speakers here: what does "sonderkommando" mean?
> 
> I tried internet translation programs and got "task force" --- also, "sonder" means "special," so "special soldier" could also be a translation. This seems rather vague though --- special in what way?

Hi Hugh,

My wife is a native German speaker, and she informs me that "sonderkommando" is used today to mean "special task force", for example if a team is assembled to search for a missing person.

The use of the term in the context of concentration camps during World War II was sardonic.

For anyone who may have followed the link to the latter meaning, as I did, maybe this OT link may help to remove the bitter aftertaste - my favourite band of the moment : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RJ1bKfSgZk

Enjoy!
Howerd

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#34487

In article <4915cb2b-3c04-493b-94bb-77d5bfcc40a4@googlegroups.com>,
Howerd  <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Monday, November 17, 2014 11:23:32 PM UTC, hughag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> For the German speakers here: what does "sonderkommando" mean?
>>
>> I tried internet translation programs and got "task force" --- also,
>"sonder" means "special," so "special soldier" could also be a
>translation. This seems rather vague though --- special in what way?
>
>Hi Hugh,
>
>My wife is a native German speaker, and she informs me that
>"sonderkommando" is used today to mean "special task force", for example
>if a team is assembled to search for a missing person.
>
>The use of the term in the context of concentration camps during World
>War II was sardonic.

One of the "special tasks" in the second world war was to hunt down
and kill Jews and Sowjet leaders. Because outside of Germany this was
an important context for the word, for me as a non-German the word
has still a macabre ring. This is not true for Germans, to whom it is
more of a normal word, meaning "special task force".

<SNIP>
>
>Enjoy!
>Howerd
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#34494

Albert van der Horst wrote:
> One of the "special tasks" in the second world war was to hunt down
> and kill Jews and Sowjet leaders. Because outside of Germany this was
> an important context for the word, for me as a non-German the word
> has still a macabre ring. This is not true for Germans, to whom it is
> more of a normal word, meaning "special task force".

I can't say so; we don't use "Sonder[einsatz]kommando" any longer as word 
with "special task force" meaning; they have a dedicated Eichmann, SD and SS 
association.  Today we used "Spezialeinsatzkommando" (SEK).  Of course, 
people who want to mock SEKs still call them Sondereinsatzkommando; it is 
derogatory.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#34505

In article <m4g2dg$h9u$1@dont-email.me>,
Bernd Paysan  <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote:
>Albert van der Horst wrote:
>> One of the "special tasks" in the second world war was to hunt down
>> and kill Jews and Sowjet leaders. Because outside of Germany this was
>> an important context for the word, for me as a non-German the word
>> has still a macabre ring. This is not true for Germans, to whom it is
>> more of a normal word, meaning "special task force".
>
>I can't say so; we don't use "Sonder[einsatz]kommando" any longer as word
>with "special task force" meaning; they have a dedicated Eichmann, SD and SS
>association.  Today we used "Spezialeinsatzkommando" (SEK).  Of course,
>people who want to mock SEKs still call them Sondereinsatzkommando; it is
>derogatory.

Thanks for the correction.
For those not in the know, Bernd is a native German, so this is about the
last word on this subject.

>
>--
>Bernd Paysan
>

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#34501

 hughaguilar96@yahoo.com Wrote in message:
> For the German speakers here: what does "sonderkommando" mean?
> 
> I tried internet translation programs and got "task force" --- also, "sonder" means "special," so "special soldier" could also be a translation. This seems rather vague though --- special in what way?
> 

I think "special forces" will do quite nicely. ;-) Note "sonder"
 has a special connotation with "exceptional". Like certain
 english words certain german terms are quite hard to catch in a
 translation. 

Hans Bezemer
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