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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #56164 > unrolled thread

comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM

Started byRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
First post2017-03-23 02:17 -0500
Last post2017-05-11 20:59 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 184 — 31 participants

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  comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-23 02:17 -0500
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 00:27 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-23 11:50 +0000
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-23 12:34 -0500
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 10:56 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM mentificium@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 05:25 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 19:23 -0400
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM john <anon@example.com> - 2017-05-03 10:54 +0100
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM mentificium@gmail.com - 2017-05-04 05:28 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 17:46 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 18:49 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-24 22:09 -0500
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 20:47 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-03-25 10:49 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 12:39 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM The Beez <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 02:07 -0700
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-10 11:23 +0200
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-10 16:29 -1000
          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-11 13:39 -0700
            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 16:01 -0500
              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-11 21:41 -1000
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-12 03:18 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-12 19:12 -0500
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-12 19:15 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:01 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-05-16 17:59 -0400
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-24 16:57 -0400
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-26 02:28 -0700
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-12 17:44 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-13 00:21 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:15 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-13 00:30 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-13 04:43 -0500
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-13 12:51 +0100
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-13 08:47 -0500
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 09:57 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-13 18:26 +0100
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 10:59 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:36 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-14 00:33 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 12:04 -0500
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-14 11:45 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-14 12:02 -0700
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 14:22 -0500
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-14 23:08 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 14:12 -0500
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-14 12:25 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 14:48 -0500
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-05-15 00:24 -0400
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 00:14 -0500
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 00:17 -0500
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 00:30 -0500
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 09:54 +0100
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 02:27 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-05-15 00:24 -0400
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 09:53 +0100
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-15 16:31 +0200
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 11:43 -0700
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 15:47 -0700
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 20:06 -0700
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 12:05 +0100
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-16 15:00 +0000
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 10:52 -0700
                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 19:33 +0100
                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-16 21:11 +0200
                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 21:25 +0100
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-17 07:48 +0200
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 10:50 -0700
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 19:27 +0100
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 11:42 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 20:22 +0100
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 12:57 -0700
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 13:01 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 13:01 +0100
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 14:09 +0200
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 07:00 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 22:15 -0700
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 22:21 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 08:04 +0200
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 23:10 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 08:19 +0200
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 23:29 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 08:44 +0100
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 01:13 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 10:02 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 01:29 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 11:34 +0200
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 03:56 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-18 09:44 +0000
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-18 09:42 +0000
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 03:59 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 13:01 +0200
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-18 08:26 +0100
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-18 09:37 +0000
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-18 08:16 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 11:04 -0500
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 19:41 +0100
                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-16 21:05 +0200
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 11:21 -0700
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 20:32 +0100
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 19:35 -0700
                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 11:06 -0700
                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 19:30 +0100
                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 12:02 -0700
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 20:41 +0100
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 19:17 -0700
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 20:58 -0700
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 10:46 +0100
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 08:43 -0500
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 16:00 +0100
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-20 01:47 -0700
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 13:03 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-20 17:51 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-21 07:51 +0100
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 00:11 -0700
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-21 17:46 +0100
                                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 10:34 -0700
                                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-21 20:57 +0100
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 04:08 -0500
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 10:51 +0100
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 05:15 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 14:51 +0100
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 09:18 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 21:15 +0100
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 19:49 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-19 07:10 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-19 07:42 -0500
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 09:59 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 18:48 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-19 12:40 +0100
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 20:57 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-20 03:42 -0500
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-20 02:00 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 10:15 +0100
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 13:34 +0100
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-20 02:01 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 13:18 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-19 17:06 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 08:31 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-19 17:02 +0100
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 09:18 -0700
                                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 09:34 -0700
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-18 16:40 +0200
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-18 08:12 -0700
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 02:30 -0700
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 18:57 -0700
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-20 14:01 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-21 19:55 +0200
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 11:57 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 12:41 -0700
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 13:02 -0700
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 14:43 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 16:32 -0700
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 18:46 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-22 07:05 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-23 13:45 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-23 22:02 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-24 01:00 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-24 14:07 +0100
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 22:14 -0700
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-16 18:48 -1000
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 15:06 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:16 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 12:18 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:58 -0700
              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 03:32 -0700
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-12 19:29 -0500
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 08:25 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-13 13:25 -0500
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2017-05-15 05:45 +0000
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 06:54 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-15 16:30 +0200
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-16 00:32 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 19:25 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-16 21:15 -0700
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 21:34 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 08:39 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 12:38 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 17:32 -0500
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-16 10:06 +0200
            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:51 -0700
          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:50 -0700
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:47 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Bill Zimmerly <billzimmerly@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 20:59 -0700

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#59411

FromJoel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-16 19:35 -0700
Message-ID<70a17eb9-c4bd-4202-b174-5c16d4dfa546@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59388
On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 3:21:44 AM UTC+9, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 4:05:27 AM UTC-7, Gerry wrote:
> > On 15/05/2017 19:43, hughaguilar96@somewhere wrote:
> > > What I am saying, is that if they are going to describe themselves as leaders of the Forth community, they should first write useful Forth code-libraries --- this would be a good start toward gaining the respect of Forthers such as myself --- this is actually the only way to gain credence as leaders.
> > > 
> > 
> > Evidently they don't agree. I don't think they "declare themselves to be 
> > the rulers of the world" - only the world of ANS Forth and Forth 2012 
> > and following standards. And as the Forth 200X Standard Committee that 
> > is their right and responsibility.
> 
> Obviously, I meant the world of Forth --- the Forth-200x committee also mean the world of Forth --- they use the terms "Forth" and "ANS-Forth" as synonyms, despite the fact that Charles Moore said that ANS-Forth is not Forth but is a Forth-like language at best.
> 
> Your use of the word "right" is interesting --- is this a God-given right? --- this sounds a lot like the monarchies of the Middle Ages when the royal families claimed to have a divine right to rule over the peasants.
> 

Actually, according to some people, the authors of a creative work do 
have a natural right to exercise a certain amount of influence over what 
is done with the creative work.

What that factoid has to do with the rest of this discussion is not something 
I want to take the time to rant about today. I have lots of other things 
I want to do.

--
Joel Rees

Ranting randomly
http://reiisi.blogspot.com

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#59441

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-17 11:06 -0700
Message-ID<76594ad7-b488-49ce-acbd-08942fb2b017@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59411
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 7:35:22 PM UTC-7, Joel Rees wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 3:21:44 AM UTC+9, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 4:05:27 AM UTC-7, Gerry wrote:
> > > On 15/05/2017 19:43, hughaguilar96@somewhere wrote:
> > > > What I am saying, is that if they are going to describe themselves as leaders of the Forth community, they should first write useful Forth code-libraries --- this would be a good start toward gaining the respect of Forthers such as myself --- this is actually the only way to gain credence as leaders.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Evidently they don't agree. I don't think they "declare themselves to be 
> > > the rulers of the world" - only the world of ANS Forth and Forth 2012 
> > > and following standards. And as the Forth 200X Standard Committee that 
> > > is their right and responsibility.
> > 
> > Obviously, I meant the world of Forth --- the Forth-200x committee also mean the world of Forth --- they use the terms "Forth" and "ANS-Forth" as synonyms, despite the fact that Charles Moore said that ANS-Forth is not Forth but is a Forth-like language at best.
> > 
> > Your use of the word "right" is interesting --- is this a God-given right? --- this sounds a lot like the monarchies of the Middle Ages when the royal families claimed to have a divine right to rule over the peasants.
> > 
> 
> Actually, according to some people, the authors of a creative work do 
> have a natural right to exercise a certain amount of influence over what 
> is done with the creative work.

I'm not doing anything with Stephen Pelc's creative work. I have no idea what you are talking about --- I wrote MFX myself --- your suggestion that I'm dependent upon Stephen Pelc or anybody else is just insulting nonsense.

I have never seen the source-code for any other cross-compiler. I have not read the Forth-200x document on cross-compilation --- Jeff Fox told me that it was over-complicated and not worth reading --- only in rare circumstances (the LLRB tree in the novice-package) do I use somebody else's code as a basis for my code, and MFX was not one of these circumstances. 

I prefer to figure things out myself. I feel confident that I can always come up with a better solution than any other solution (past, present or future) written by anybody else.

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#59443

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-05-17 19:30 +0100
Message-ID<ofi4ml$tnf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59441
On 5/17/2017 19:06, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> I feel confident that I can always come up with a better solution
> than any other solution (past, present or future) written by anybody
> else.

Misplaced confidence, as usual. Counter evidence and two fairly 
significant clangers are: providing late binding macros and a sort that 
swaps records rather than pointers to records.

-- 
Alex

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#59445

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-17 12:02 -0700
Message-ID<4bf4f6e1-03c6-44b9-b588-e2a954a99cf5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59443
On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 11:30:57 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> On 5/17/2017 19:06, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > I feel confident that I can always come up with a better solution
> > than any other solution (past, present or future) written by anybody
> > else.
> 
> Misplaced confidence, as usual. Counter evidence and two fairly 
> significant clangers are: providing late binding macros and a sort that 
> swaps records rather than pointers to records.

I'm the only Forth programmer who has ever written a late-binding MACRO: --- it is in the novice-package to be released soon --- I had a late-binding MACRO: in MFX written in 1994, but I was slow to implement this in ANS-Forth because I first had to figure out how to write the disambiguifiers so FIND would work, but I am the only Forther to ever write this in either Forth-83 or ANS-Forth.

My SORT has always worked with elements of any size --- the element can be a record or a pointer to a record --- your claim that I don't understand that an array can contain pointers to records is bizarre; this is very basic programming; I knew this much when I was still in high-school. The line-number BASIC I used in high-school on the Apple-II didn't support pointers or records though, so I would have an array containing indices into other arrays (one array for each field in a pseudo-record)

ANS-Forth is a cult! ANS-Forth is founded entirely upon the idea that the "leading expert" Elizabeth Rather and her appointed committee know everything there is to know about Forth --- and that any critic (me) is utterly incompetent, and doesn't even know what a pointer is. This is very comparable to religious cults that claim to have a monopoly on knowledge of spirituality --- and that any critic is utterly ignorant, and no better than an animal.

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#59447

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-05-17 20:41 +0100
Message-ID<ofi8qv$dgd$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59445
On 5/17/2017 20:02, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 11:30:57 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
>> On 5/17/2017 19:06, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I feel confident that I can always come up with a better
>>> solution than any other solution (past, present or future)
>>> written by anybody else.
>> 
>> Misplaced confidence, as usual. Counter evidence and two fairly 
>> significant clangers are: providing late binding macros and a sort
>> that swaps records rather than pointers to records.
> 
> I'm the only Forth programmer who has ever written a late-binding
> MACRO: --- it is in the novice-package to be released soon --- I had
> a late-binding MACRO: in MFX written in 1994, but I was slow to
> implement this in ANS-Forth because I first had to figure out how to
> write the disambiguifiers so FIND would work, but I am the only
> Forther to ever write this in either Forth-83 or ANS-Forth.

The problem was that your macros were late binding, and you claimed to 
be changing them to early binding. See this thread.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.forth/92KNs8p4J6Y/QJVXfKbGDQAJ

And no, you're not the only person to have written a macro (early or 
late bound) in Forth. Forth is one huge macro factory. I think you think 
too rigidly about how code is written & consumed.

-- 
Alex

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#59455

FromJoel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-17 19:17 -0700
Message-ID<fe03bf9d-e414-4d8c-afb3-9ba123f917fd@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59447
On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 4:41:30 AM UTC+9, Alex wrote:
> [...] Forth is one huge macro factory.

That is one way to look at it, but there are limits to the approach.

Forth words aren't text macros, and they aren't in-line machine/assembly 
code macros. (And they aren't, for example, CAD macros.)

> I think you think 
> too rigidly about how code is written & consumed.

From my point of view, we all on this list think too rigidly about 
how code is written and used, etc. 

(Including me. I've just, yesterday and today, finally seen past a 
few mental blocks that had me stuck when working with double integer
division. Talking over use of the FP stack with Anton helped, even 
though the blocked thinking was not related to the stack question, 
and even though we aren't coming to a *perfect* meeting of minds 
there.)

It's not necessarily a bad thing. Moving ahead requires finding 
somewhat stable ground to put our feet on.

--
Joel Rees

Delusions of being a writer:
http://reiisi.blogspot.com/p/novels-i-am-writing.html

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#59457

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-17 20:58 -0700
Message-ID<fcd02164-f109-432e-9f5e-004fd7143049@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59455
On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 7:17:09 PM UTC-7, Joel Rees wrote:
> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 4:41:30 AM UTC+9, Alex wrote:
> > [...] Forth is one huge macro factory.
> 
> That is one way to look at it, but there are limits to the approach.
> 
> Forth words aren't text macros, and they aren't in-line machine/assembly 
> code macros. (And they aren't, for example, CAD macros.)
> 
> > I think you think 
> > too rigidly about how code is written & consumed.
> 
> From my point of view, we all on this list think too rigidly about 
> how code is written and used, etc. 

Most likely, when he says that, "Forth is one huge macro factory," he is referring to code like this:

: bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr )    
    postpone over
    postpone +
    postpone swap
    ; immediate

I've got quite a lot of this in the novice-package. This would be more easily written as:

macro: bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr )    
    over + swap ;

MACRO: is a general-purpose defining word (the novice-packag is all about general-purpose code). I was only able to write MACRO: with early-binding after I figured out how two write disambiguifiers because I need FIND to work on all words (including IF etc. that FIND in ANS-Forth is ambiguous on and may even abort on).

As I said, I had MACRO: with early-binding working in MFX written in 1994/1995 (written in UR/Forth). Getting it to work in ANS-Forth was more difficult because I needed the disambiguifiers --- I had a late-binding version that I used for several years.

I'm not "thinking too rigidly" --- I'm writing general-purpose code --- that is the opposite of being rigid.

> (Including me. I've just, yesterday and today, finally seen past a 
> few mental blocks that had me stuck when working with double integer
> division. Talking over use of the FP stack with Anton helped, even 
> though the blocked thinking was not related to the stack question, 
> and even though we aren't coming to a *perfect* meeting of minds 
> there.)
> 
> It's not necessarily a bad thing. Moving ahead requires finding 
> somewhat stable ground to put our feet on.

I have a double-precision division in the novice-package --- it is in CF.4TH --- this is the one file in the novice-package that I didn't write myself (it was written by Nathaniel Grossman and published in "Forth Dimensions" in Sept/Oct 1984, and all I did was upgrade it from 16-bit Forth-83 to 32-bit ANS-Forth).

This kind of math is pretty much out of my league --- I might be able to figure it out --- I just copied the code from Grossman's article though, without understanding it.

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#59483

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-05-18 10:46 +0100
Message-ID<ofjqbv$rkv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59457
On 5/18/2017 04:58, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:

> 
> Most likely, when he says that, "Forth is one huge macro factory," he
> is referring to code like this:
> 
> : bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr ) postpone over postpone + 
> postpone swap ; immediate
> 
> I've got quite a lot of this in the novice-package. This would be
> more easily written as:
> 
> macro: bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr ) over + swap ;

With recognizers (which I sincerely hope get ANS-ified soon), that becomes

: bounds ]] over + swap [[ ; immediate

This gets rid of a lot of the deficiencies of MACRO: type approaches, 
such as getting undesirable late binding as a side effect of 
EVALUATEing. It also has the advantage that it's programmable; the macro 
bit is only between ]] and [[

variable useover?
true useover? !

: check13
     useover? @ if
       ]] 13 over = if [[
     else
       ]] dup 13 = if [[
     then ; immediate


> 
> MACRO: is a general-purpose defining word (the novice-packag is all
> about general-purpose code). I was only able to write MACRO: with
> early-binding after I figured out how two write disambiguifiers
> because I need FIND to work on all words (including IF etc. that FIND
> in ANS-Forth is ambiguous on and may even abort on).
> 
> As I said, I had MACRO: with early-binding working in MFX written in
> 1994/1995 (written in UR/Forth). Getting it to work in ANS-Forth was
> more difficult because I needed the disambiguifiers --- I had a
> late-binding version that I used for several years.
> 
> I'm not "thinking too rigidly" --- I'm writing general-purpose code
> --- that is the opposite of being rigid.

Rigidity is, for example, designing code that only uses arrays or 
"chains", something you recommend frequently as part of your 
StraightForth agenda. That it's claimed as general purpose doesn't 
change that.

-- 
Alex

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#59494

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2017-05-18 08:43 -0500
Message-ID<PrudnVxOtqt6OYDEnZ2dnUU7-dXNnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#59483
Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> wrote:
> On 5/18/2017 04:58, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Most likely, when he says that, "Forth is one huge macro factory," he
>> is referring to code like this:
>> 
>> : bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr ) postpone over postpone + 
>> postpone swap ; immediate
>> 
>> I've got quite a lot of this in the novice-package. This would be
>> more easily written as:
>> 
>> macro: bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr ) over + swap ;
> 
> With recognizers (which I sincerely hope get ANS-ified soon), that becomes
> 
> : bounds ]] over + swap [[ ; immediate

IMO, defining BOUNDS as a macro is usually the wrong thing to do.
Firstly, Forth is designed to make calls as fast as possible, so that
people don't have to worry about the cost of entry + exit.  It would
be a damn shame if all the one-liners ended up being defined as
macros.  Secondly, inlining is straightforward optimization technology
for Forth compilers; let the optimizer do its job.  Thirdly, most uses
of BOUNDS will not be in a hot code path because they're outside a
loop.

Andrew.

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#59504

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-05-18 16:00 +0100
Message-ID<ofkcol$rqu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59494
On 5/18/2017 14:43, Andrew Haley wrote:
> Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> wrote:
>> On 5/18/2017 04:58, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Most likely, when he says that, "Forth is one huge macro factory," he
>>> is referring to code like this:
>>>
>>> : bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr ) postpone over postpone +
>>> postpone swap ; immediate
>>>
>>> I've got quite a lot of this in the novice-package. This would be
>>> more easily written as:
>>>
>>> macro: bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr ) over + swap ;
>>
>> With recognizers (which I sincerely hope get ANS-ified soon), that becomes
>>
>> : bounds ]] over + swap [[ ; immediate
> 
> IMO, defining BOUNDS as a macro is usually the wrong thing to do.
> Firstly, Forth is designed to make calls as fast as possible, so that
> people don't have to worry about the cost of entry + exit.  It would
> be a damn shame if all the one-liners ended up being defined as
> macros.  Secondly, inlining is straightforward optimization technology
> for Forth compilers; let the optimizer do its job.  Thirdly, most uses
> of BOUNDS will not be in a hot code path because they're outside a
> loop.
> 
> Andrew.
> 

One of the interesting aspects of optimizing Forth is the benefit of 
decomposing words to simple literals, and stack operations which can be 
eliminated, especially on register based machines.

Yes, simple peephole optimization and inlining of words like

: bounds over + swap ;

can be done at the time it's compiled, and it's pretty easy to judge if 
the code is an inline opportunity.

But we need some way to express the individual parts to more 
sophisticated code generators (say, those based on SSA) that optimize 
for much larger chunks and not just this word.

Hugh's MACRO: definition of BOUNDS has one fatal flaw; it can't be 
interpreted. WF32 supports separate interpret/compile semantics.

: bounds over + swap
     compiles> drop ]] over + swap [[ ;

This helps the optimizer, but unfortunately the construction is not 
automatically derived from the plain colon definition (and perhaps for 
some definitions it may not be possible to do so).

-- 
Alex

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#59579

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-20 01:47 -0700
Message-ID<b950d211-a6e5-4465-8a24-9460cadb20b4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59504
On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 8:00:49 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> Hugh's MACRO: definition of BOUNDS has one fatal flaw; it can't be 
> interpreted. WF32 supports separate interpret/compile semantics.
> 
> : bounds over + swap
>      compiles> drop ]] over + swap [[ ;

A fatal flaw! All the Forth code that I write has fatal flaws, according to Alex McDonald.

This is trivial to fix though:

macro: bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr )
    over + swap ;

: bounds state @ if  postpone bounds  else  bounds  then ;

> This helps the optimizer, but unfortunately the construction is not 
> automatically derived from the plain colon definition (and perhaps for 
> some definitions it may not be possible to do so).

A lot of macros can't be turned into colon words. For example:

SwiftForth? [if]

icode next>r ( node -- node )                   \ r: -- next-node
    0 [ebx] push
    ret end-code

[else]

macro: next>r ( node -- node )                  \ r: -- next-node
    dup .fore @ >r ;

[then]

macro: each[                                    \ toucher: i*x node -- j*x
    begin  dup while
        next>r ;

macro: ]each
        r> repeat drop ;

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#59588

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-05-20 13:03 +0100
Message-ID<ofpb3c$sro$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59579
On 5/20/2017 09:47, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 8:00:49 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
>> Hugh's MACRO: definition of BOUNDS has one fatal flaw; it can't be 
>> interpreted. WF32 supports separate interpret/compile semantics.
>> 
>> : bounds over + swap compiles> drop ]] over + swap [[ ;
> 
> A fatal flaw! All the Forth code that I write has fatal flaws,
> according to Alex McDonald.
> 
> This is trivial to fix though:
> 
> macro: bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr ) over + swap ;
> 
> : bounds state @ if  postpone bounds  else  bounds  then ;
This has a fatal flaw. But I'll let you work out why.


-- 
Alex

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#59622

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-20 17:51 -0700
Message-ID<996f68b4-5359-4582-b9c6-b7e30b91a640@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59588
On Saturday, May 20, 2017 at 5:03:05 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> On 5/20/2017 09:47, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 8:00:49 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> >> Hugh's MACRO: definition of BOUNDS has one fatal flaw; it can't be 
> >> interpreted. WF32 supports separate interpret/compile semantics.
> >> 
> >> : bounds over + swap compiles> drop ]] over + swap [[ ;
> > 
> > A fatal flaw! All the Forth code that I write has fatal flaws,
> > according to Alex McDonald.
> > 
> > This is trivial to fix though:
> > 
> > macro: bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr ) over + swap ;
> > 
> > : bounds state @ if  postpone bounds  else  bounds  then ;
> This has a fatal flaw. But I'll let you work out why.

Alex McDonald wants to be a teacher! In order to be a teacher, it is necessary for him to assume gross ignorance on my part. I have every expectation that he is now going to spend the next four years teaching me the evils of ticking a state-smart word.

The problem with comp.lang.forth is that we have too many people with very minimal knowledge who want to be teachers. Here is a nausea-inducing example:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/eZPi8DA6Aso

Here is another example:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/hEUsPvmxqbg%5B76-100%5D
Alex has been trying for four years to teach me the fact that it is possible to have an array of pointers to structs. This is so tedious! I mean, four years is a long time!

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 8:04:35 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> On 3/6/2017 14:36, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 7:07:08 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> 
> >> By the way, any progress on your understanding of pointers? Can you
> >> for example sort a singly linked list with Wil Baden's sort yet? Or
> >> do the same with your inefficent sort?
> >
> > You think that you are beating me strong by claiming that I don't
> > understand pointers. This is why I expect ANS-Forth to die --- every
> >  time that I write any code, even simple stuff like a SORT function,
> >  the ANS-Forth cult respond by making great fools out of themselves
> > --- I don't have to shine a spotlight on the stupidity of ANS-Forth,
> >  because the cult members are shining the spotlight in the own eyes,
> >  making themselves look stupid and simultaneously blinding themselves
> >  to the real world.
> >
> > Anyway, I've never seen Wil Baden's much-touted SORT function. I
> > tried to download it but the webpage was kaput.
> 
> http://www.wilbaden.com/neil_bawd/qsort.txt is still there, and still 
> confusing the heck out of you. How can it sort anything other than an 
> array of cells? Hmm? How?

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#59629

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-05-21 07:51 +0100
Message-ID<ofrd76$t8b$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59622
On 5/21/2017 01:51, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 20, 2017 at 5:03:05 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
>> On 5/20/2017 09:47,hughaguilar96@gmail.com  wrote:
>>> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 8:00:49 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
>>>> Hugh's MACRO: definition of BOUNDS has one fatal flaw; it can't
>>>> be interpreted. WF32 supports separate interpret/compile
>>>> semantics.
>>>> 
>>>> : bounds over + swap compiles> drop ]] over + swap [[ ;
>>> A fatal flaw! All the Forth code that I write has fatal flaws, 
>>> according to Alex McDonald.
>>> 
>>> This is trivial to fix though:
>>> 
>>> macro: bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr ) over + swap ;
>>> 
>>> : bounds state @ if  postpone bounds  else  bounds  then ;
>> This has a fatal flaw. But I'll let you work out why.
> Alex McDonald wants to be a teacher! In order to be a teacher, it is
> necessary for him to assume gross ignorance on my part. I have every
> expectation that he is now going to spend the next four years
> teaching me the evils of ticking a state-smart word.

No, that's not what's wrong. Did you tried running it and looking at 
what your code generated?

: foo bounds ;

It's not OVER + SWAP because the last definition of BOUNDS is missing an 
immediate.

For anyone who's interested, Hugh's reference to state-smartness evils 
is covered here by Anton Ertl 
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef98/ertl98.pdf

-- 
Alex

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#59632

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-21 00:11 -0700
Message-ID<6bc25f23-37fd-4ead-a4e2-7797241e836a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59629
On Saturday, May 20, 2017 at 11:51:32 PM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> On 5/21/2017 01:51, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 20, 2017 at 5:03:05 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> >> On 5/20/2017 09:47,hughaguilar96@gmail.com  wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 8:00:49 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> >>>> Hugh's MACRO: definition of BOUNDS has one fatal flaw; it can't
> >>>> be interpreted. WF32 supports separate interpret/compile
> >>>> semantics.
> >>>> 
> >>>> : bounds over + swap compiles> drop ]] over + swap [[ ;
> >>> A fatal flaw! All the Forth code that I write has fatal flaws, 
> >>> according to Alex McDonald.
> >>> 
> >>> This is trivial to fix though:
> >>> 
> >>> macro: bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr ) over + swap ;
> >>> 
> >>> : bounds state @ if  postpone bounds  else  bounds  then ;
> >> This has a fatal flaw. But I'll let you work out why.
> > Alex McDonald wants to be a teacher! In order to be a teacher, it is
> > necessary for him to assume gross ignorance on my part. I have every
> > expectation that he is now going to spend the next four years
> > teaching me the evils of ticking a state-smart word.
> 
> No, that's not what's wrong. Did you tried running it and looking at 
> what your code generated?
> 
> : foo bounds ;
> 
> It's not OVER + SWAP because the last definition of BOUNDS is missing an 
> immediate.

That was a typo --- I forgot the IMMEDIATE --- it should have been:

macro: bounds ( adr cnt -- past-adr adr )
    over + swap ;

: bounds state @ if  postpone bounds  else  bounds  then ;
immediate

Anyway --- go fuck yourself --- you are not my peer!

Elizabeth Rather and Stephen Pelc appreciate your brown-nosing --- they believe that you are supporting ANS-Forth, and they may even appoint you to the Forth-200x committee --- but you just shine a spotlight on the fact that ANS-Forth is a cult, and this helps to kill ANS-Forth in the real world.

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#59670

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-05-21 17:46 +0100
Message-ID<ofsg3f$7gp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59632
On 5/21/2017 08:11, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:

> 
> Anyway --- go fuck yourself --- you are not my peer!

That's something we can both agree on.

-- 
Alex

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#59673

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-21 10:34 -0700
Message-ID<95db3410-35e8-4f6a-b600-942ffb4949d1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59670
On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 9:46:53 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> On 5/21/2017 08:11, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Anyway --- go fuck yourself --- you are not my peer!
> 
> That's something we can both agree on.
> 
> -- 
> Alex

My disambiguifiers are the heart and soul of ANS-Forth programming! It is not really possible to write non-trivial ANS-Forth code without disambiguifiers (assuming that FIND is needed for non-trivial programs, which is usually the case). But the disambiguifiers undermine the credibility of ANS-Forth because this shines a spotlight on the fact that ANS-Forth is ambiguous, which implies that ANS-Forth was designed by an idiot and should not be taken seriously. So, the disambiguifiers both keep ANS-Forth on life-support and show everybody that ANS-Forth deserves to die --- keeping ANS-Forth on life-support does not help the Forth community --- this is like chemotherapy in reverse: it kills the patient and saves the tumor!

My early-binding MACRO: only works because of the disambiguifiers. The reason why it didn't work back in 2009 when I ported it from UR/Forth to ANS-Forth was that FIND in ANS-Forth didn't work --- this is why I wrote a late-binding MACRO: instead, and used that for years --- I wasn't able to write an early-binding MACRO: in ANS-Forth until I had disambiguifiers available.

All in all, my early-binding MACRO: was a real coup --- this totally undermines the credibility of the Forth-200x committee --- they are incapable of writing code like this, because they refuse to acknowledge the existence of the disambiguifiers (because they don't want to publicly admit that ANS-Forth is ambiguous, because this makes them look ridiculous).

Here is an example of MACRO: in action:

macro: programmer-type ( flag -- str ) if c" smart" else c" dumb" then ;  ok
: alex  0 programmer-type  count type ;  ok
: hugh  1 programmer-type  count type ;  ok
alex dumb ok
hugh smart ok

The ANS-Forth cult members, such as Alex McDonald, are incapable of writing an early-binding MACRO: --- this is because they refuse to acknowledge the existence of the disambiguifiers --- they are in denial regarding the ambiguity of FIND in ANS-Forth, which is a fatal flaw for them.

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#59695

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-05-21 20:57 +0100
Message-ID<ofsr93$e9c$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59673
On 5/21/2017 18:34, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 9:46:53 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
>> On 5/21/2017 08:11, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Anyway --- go fuck yourself --- you are not my peer!
>> 
>> That's something we can both agree on.
>> 
>> -- Alex
> 
> My disambiguifiers are the heart and soul of ANS-Forth programming!

No, they're not. Seriously. They address your obsession of using FIND to 
build steatopygic macros.

-- 
Alex

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#59476

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2017-05-18 04:08 -0500
Message-ID<dLednZAUu6vq-YDEnZ2dnUU7-aOdnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#59455
Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 4:41:30 AM UTC+9, Alex wrote:
>> [...] Forth is one huge macro factory.
> 
> That is one way to look at it, but there are limits to the approach.
> 
> Forth words aren't text macros, and they aren't in-line machine/assembly 
> code macros. (And they aren't, for example, CAD macros.)

But they are macros in the same sense as LISP macros.

Andrew.

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#59484

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-05-18 10:51 +0100
Message-ID<ofjql7$si3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59455
On 5/18/2017 03:17, Joel Rees wrote:
> On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 4:41:30 AM UTC+9, Alex wrote:
>> [...] Forth is one huge macro factory.
> 
> That is one way to look at it, but there are limits to the approach.

What are they?

> 
> Forth words aren't text macros, and they aren't in-line machine/assembly
> code macros. (And they aren't, for example, CAD macros. >

I'm not sure what you mean by "text macro" or "inline assembley macro". 
On my understanding of what you might mean, Forth words can be these 
things. For example:

: generate-mov-eax-1
    also assembler
      mov eax 1
    previous ;

-- 
Alex

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