Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.forth > #57613 > unrolled thread

High level language for writing Forth

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth

Contents

  High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 18:32 -0500
    Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-20 00:24 +0000
      Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-19 14:42 -1000
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 20:33 -0500
          Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-19 16:21 -1000
          Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 19:41 -0700
            Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 23:28 -0500
        Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-20 17:02 +0000
          Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-20 09:48 -1000
            Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 09:42 +0000
              Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-21 09:07 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 17:04 +0100
                  Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-21 11:17 -0500
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 17:36 +0100
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:32 +0000
                      Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-21 15:35 -0500
                        Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:39 +0000
                      Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 22:47 +0100
                  Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:29 +0000
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-21 22:45 +0100
                      Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-22 04:49 +0000
                        Re: High level language for writing Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-22 10:54 +0100
                          Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 03:04 -0700
                            Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-22 05:12 -0500
                              Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 04:30 -0700
                                Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 05:00 -0700
                                  Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 05:40 -0700
                                    Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-22 16:51 +0100
                                      Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-22 13:36 -0700
                                        Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-22 22:59 +0100
                                          Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-22 18:43 -0700
                                            Re: High level language for writing [unum] Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-23 09:33 +0100
                                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 11:23 -0500
                              Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 04:59 -0700
                          Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:05 +0000
                            Re: High level language for writing Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-29 09:35 +0100
                        Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-22 12:56 +0100
                          Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:08 +0000
                            Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-29 09:46 +0100
                              Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 02:45 -0700
                                Re: High level language for writing Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-29 13:44 +0000
                                  Re: High level language for writing Forth lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 07:00 -0700
                                  Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-29 07:31 -0700
                                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-29 16:38 +0100
                            Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 04:10 -0700
                              Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 11:35 +0000
                                Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-29 16:33 +0100
                                  Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-05 15:24 +0000
                                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 20:16 +0100
                                      Re: High level language for writing Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-05 22:06 +0200
                                        Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 21:45 +0100
                                          Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 21:54 +0100
                                      Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-06 10:06 +0000
                                        Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-06 13:09 +0100
                                      Re: High level language for writing Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-06 11:04 +0000
                Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 20:28 +0000
                  Re: High level language for writing Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-21 12:27 -1000
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-22 04:55 +0000
                  Re: High level language for writing Forth Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 02:01 +0200
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-22 04:58 +0000
                      Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-21 23:41 -0700
                        Re: High level language for writing Forth Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 22:15 +0200
                          Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-06 13:28 +0000
                      Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 02:51 -0700
                        Re: High level language for writing Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-27 12:09 +0200
                          Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 02:48 -0700
                        Re: High level language for writing Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 03:09 +0000
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 20:11 -0500
    Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 19:34 -0700
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-19 23:22 -0500
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 21:35 -0700
          Re: High level language for writing Forth Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-04-20 05:12 +0000
          Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-20 01:15 -0500
            Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-19 23:25 -0700
            Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-21 23:12 -0500
              Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-21 21:53 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 00:42 -0500
                  Re: High level language for writing Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-21 23:44 -0700
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 03:08 -0500
                  Re: High level language for writing Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-22 04:39 -0500
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-22 12:37 +0100
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 11:33 -0500
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 14:10 -0500
                  Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-22 15:01 -0700
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-22 23:38 +0100
                      Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 16:30 -0700
                        Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-22 18:01 -0700
                        Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-23 09:25 +0100
                          Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 06:32 -0700
                            Re: High level language for writing Forth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 07:36 -0700
                            Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-24 14:32 +0100
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 18:19 -0500
                      Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-22 18:05 -0700
                        Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 21:51 -0500
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 06:54 +0300
                      Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-23 09:16 +0100
                        Re: High level language for writing Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 18:41 +0300
                          Re: High level language for writing Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-24 14:35 +0100
                      Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 06:15 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 08:04 -0700
                  Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 11:44 -0500
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 12:16 -0700
                Re: High level language for writing Forth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-22 22:52 -0400
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-20 07:49 +0300
      Re: High level language for writing Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-20 19:47 +0200
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-20 15:19 -0500
    Re: High level language for writing Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-20 08:06 +0200
    Re: High level language for writing Forth Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-20 04:35 -0700
    Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 17:03 -0500
      Re: High level language for writing Forth minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-26 01:58 -0700
    Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-13 17:36 -0500
      Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 18:37 -0700
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-13 20:52 -0500
          Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 19:25 -0700
            Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 12:44 -0700
              Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 17:27 -0500
                Re: High level language for writing Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 19:43 -0700
                  Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 23:55 -0500
                    Re: High level language for writing Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 01:59 -0700
                  Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 23:58 -0500
      Re: High level language for writing Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 07:00 -0700
        Re: High level language for writing Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 12:05 -0500

Page 6 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7  Next page →

#57832

On 4/22/2017 10:04 AM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
> суббота, 22 апреля 2017 г., 7:53:32 UTC+3 пользователь hughag...@gmail.com написал:

>> I should learn a popular language such as Go or Python that people actually use --- nobody considers me to be a programmer right now --- my Forth experience doesn't count for anything in the real world.
> 
> I see a good way here - we should count Forth as an approach to write programs, not as a 'pure' language. Base languages here are C/Go/Assembler, and Forth is a tool, just like a collections of classes or framework. In this case you can go to your customer and say 'I know a better way to solve your problem - you need a scripting language inside your big project to make it flexible, and I know how to add this scripting language'.
> 

A long time ago, in a Galaxy far away, I did a similar thing. I would 
use Borland Delphi and Forth for writing tools for work, so I ended 
integrating a Forth in the libraries of Delphi so my applications had 
Forth as an internal scripting language, I really liked it as menus and 
databases could include Forth scripts to modify how the software worked 
without having to re-compile and install a new version.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57840

суббота, 22 апреля 2017 г., 19:44:18 UTC+3 пользователь Cecil - k5nwa написал:

> > I see a good way here - we should count Forth as an approach to write programs, not as a 'pure' language. Base languages here are C/Go/Assembler, and Forth is a tool, just like a collections of classes or framework. In this case you can go to your customer and say 'I know a better way to solve your problem - you need a scripting language inside your big project to make it flexible, and I know how to add this scripting language'.
> > 
> 
> A long time ago, in a Galaxy far away, I did a similar thing. I would 
> use Borland Delphi and Forth for writing tools for work, so I ended 
> integrating a Forth in the libraries of Delphi so my applications had 
> Forth as an internal scripting language, I really liked it as menus and 
> databases could include Forth scripts to modify how the software worked 
> without having to re-compile and install a new version.

This is an example of what I want to point to. Scripts running by visual components like buttons can greatly extend program functionality. Both programmer and user can get benefits from this. Why don't lead this way? This is a thetorical question indeed. Let's write a new program with some scripting features and we shall see what we really want from Forth.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57878

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 21:53:31 -0700 (PDT)
hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:

> Also, a Forth VM written in any high-level language is going to be
> significantly slower than generating machine-code with an STC Forth

Just how did you manage to come to that conclusion?

> --- so the difference between C and Go in speed doesn't matter --- so
> long as you don't think that Perl (John Passaniti) or Python (Juergen
> Pintaske) is a good language to write a Forth VM in, you should get
> reasonable speed.

I'm surprised you didn't directly mention me here, "or C (Rod
Pemberton)".  I'm not sure whether to thank you or not.

> C has a lot of problems of its own --- Anton Ertl complains about
> this continually --- I wouldn't use C.

That's still not sufficient cause someone to not use C.  C and Forth are
the most ubiquitous languages (i.e., widely available).  So, you need
to use one of them for portability.  Otherwise, you're stuck with
porting the assembly to each and every new platform.


Rod Pemberton
-- 
All it takes for humanity to conquer the world's toughest problems
is to hope, to believe, to share, and to do, in cooperation.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57631

On 04/20/17 07:22, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> I bought a Hobby copy of 8th and was hoping to use it as a general
> overall tool to write software for use with my PCs, it has a lot of nice
> libraries, and data types but it doesn't have support for MySQL

The Hobbyist version doesn't natively support MySQL; the Professional
version does.  You can still interface with MySQL in the Hobbyist
edition, either using the FFI or by execing the 'mysql' command-line
application.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57652

In article <87efwneria.fsf@nightsong.com>,
Paul Rubin  <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> That is why I started looking at Go so I could have a more modern
>> language to use in writing system software,
>
>Go is something like a cleaned up and safer version of C.  I wouldn't
>call it modern.  It's fun to use if you like C, and the compiler is
>amazingly fast, which is nice.  But I'd still consider it a low level
>language.

Another view is that it is a slightly inferior incarnation of Algol68.

http://cowlark.com/2009-11-15-go/

This is a seminal article cited all over the place.
The article itself is extremely hard to find.
I knew it existed.
I hadn't any success until I searched for the exact author and the
exact title:
    cowlark "Go and brand x"
(Does google want to hide it?)

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57666

On 4/20/2017 12:47 PM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> In article <87efwneria.fsf@nightsong.com>,
> Paul Rubin  <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> That is why I started looking at Go so I could have a more modern
>>> language to use in writing system software,
>>
>> Go is something like a cleaned up and safer version of C.  I wouldn't
>> call it modern.  It's fun to use if you like C, and the compiler is
>> amazingly fast, which is nice.  But I'd still consider it a low level
>> language.
> 
> Another view is that it is a slightly inferior incarnation of Algol68.
> 
> http://cowlark.com/2009-11-15-go/
> 
> This is a seminal article cited all over the place.
> The article itself is extremely hard to find.
> I knew it existed.
> I hadn't any success until I searched for the exact author and the
> exact title:
>      cowlark "Go and brand x"
> (Does google want to hide it?)
> 
> Groetjes Albert
> 
Interesting article but a few things stand out, he compared Go right 
after it came out so he was probably not familiar with the language. He 
proved that to be so when he compared the language with sample routines, 
the routines were not correct, even I as a rank beginner with a few 
hours reading on go could see his sample were not correct. Most likely 
then he was not very familiar with the language.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57633

Cecil Bayona wrote:
> So, does anyone in the group have experience with Go in writing a
> Forth compiler or other major software or know of links to someone
> else's work on using Go in writing compilers?

I don't have any experience with Go.  But my own Forth uses an unholy
mix of Lisp, C, Forth, assembly language, and now has added some asm.js
JavaScript as well.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57641

четверг, 20 апреля 2017 г., 2:32:45 UTC+3 пользователь Cecil - k5nwa написал:

> I been working on a project using C to create a small Forth VM similar 
> to eForth, I have been making progress and soon it will be time to use 
> that Forth VM as the core of a complete Forth system. Since the core 
> it's written in C and the rest in Forth it should be easy to transport 
> to various CPUs.

From our experience, Assembler, Forth, Delphi, C, C++, C# may be used with less or more efforts, depending on skill and goals. I know about Java and Python versions, but have no such translators in portfolio. C-based languages provide more easy way, and may contain assembler or dll calls for higher performance in critical parts. Stack manipulations are worse candidates to be rewritten, because total performance often depends on  things like graphics or system calls.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#58152

On 4/19/2017 6:32 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> I been working on a project using C to create a small Forth VM similar 
> to eForth, I have been making progress and soon it will be time to use 
> that Forth VM as the core of a complete Forth system. Since the core 
> it's written in C and the rest in Forth it should be easy to transport 
> to various CPUs.
> 
> As a side project I bought some books on Go a system programming 
> language and have it setup on my development PC, so I was thinking that 
> once the Forth VM in C is tested and working to rewrite the whole thing 
> in Go as a Go learning exercise.
> 
> I was going to write the whole thing in C++ and even bought a few books 
> on C++, about $150 worth but then I rediscovered why I disliked C++ in 
> the first place so many years ago so that proved a waste of money. That 
> is why I started looking at Go so I could have a more modern language to 
> use in writing system software, it has limited Object programming but 
> unlike C++ which I dislike.
> 
> Go is not available for embedded processors other that ARM but it don't 
> see that as a major problem, it is available for all the major OSes like 
> Windows. OS X, and a multitude of Linux and other similar OSes like BSD.
> 
>   I want to learn Go for other uses so the possibility to use something 
> else besides Go to write this software such as Forth compilers is a 
> possibility. Other options are enhanced Forth like languages such as 
> 8th, or oForth. Since Go is somewhat similar to C it's not a stretch to 
> rewrite working C code in it.
> 
> So, does anyone in the group have experience with Go in writing a Forth 
> compiler or other major software or know of links to someone else's work 
> on using Go in writing compilers?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
Well things keep getting more complicated, Delphi and Forth are my two 
favorite languages.

When I wanted to do this project my first thought was Borland Delphi, 
but it turns out that the software I own is no longer compatible with 
Windows 10 the OS used by my horde of PCs. Embarcadero who bought 
Borland did not offer a free version of Delphi, I consider that a dumb 
move on their part as many were introduce to the superior environment of 
Delphi that way. It seems they now offer a free version of Delphi so I 
downloaded and installed it, towards the weekend I will try it out but 
it seems they have made drastic changes to the interface which is now 
similar to Mono so we will see if it works out. There is always Lazarus 
for a Delphi interface.

In the meantime I will halt development the C version of the software 
and give Go a try the VM is worked out and most of the code is in place 
so I have a guide to proceed with.

I still can't believe these guys took out Unions, that is such a handy 
feature but I see why one has no clue what an Union holds at any one 
time, no ambiguity allowed, the Forth Standard could learn something 
from that.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#58176

Am Mittwoch, 26. April 2017 00:03:20 UTC+2 schrieb Cecil - k5nwa:
> On 4/19/2017 6:32 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> > I been working on a project using C to create a small Forth VM similar 
> > to eForth, I have been making progress and soon it will be time to use 
> > that Forth VM as the core of a complete Forth system. Since the core 
> > it's written in C and the rest in Forth it should be easy to transport 
> > to various CPUs.
> > 
> > As a side project I bought some books on Go a system programming 
> > language and have it setup on my development PC, so I was thinking that 
> > once the Forth VM in C is tested and working to rewrite the whole thing 
> > in Go as a Go learning exercise.
> > 
> > I was going to write the whole thing in C++ and even bought a few books 
> > on C++, about $150 worth but then I rediscovered why I disliked C++ in 
> > the first place so many years ago so that proved a waste of money. That 
> > is why I started looking at Go so I could have a more modern language to 
> > use in writing system software, it has limited Object programming but 
> > unlike C++ which I dislike.
> > 
> > Go is not available for embedded processors other that ARM but it don't 
> > see that as a major problem, it is available for all the major OSes like 
> > Windows. OS X, and a multitude of Linux and other similar OSes like BSD.
> > 
> >   I want to learn Go for other uses so the possibility to use something 
> > else besides Go to write this software such as Forth compilers is a 
> > possibility. Other options are enhanced Forth like languages such as 
> > 8th, or oForth. Since Go is somewhat similar to C it's not a stretch to 
> > rewrite working C code in it.
> > 
> > So, does anyone in the group have experience with Go in writing a Forth 
> > compiler or other major software or know of links to someone else's work 
> > on using Go in writing compilers?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance.
> > 
> Well things keep getting more complicated, Delphi and Forth are my two 
> favorite languages.
> 
> When I wanted to do this project my first thought was Borland Delphi, 
> but it turns out that the software I own is no longer compatible with 
> Windows 10 the OS used by my horde of PCs. Embarcadero who bought 
> Borland did not offer a free version of Delphi, I consider that a dumb 
> move on their part as many were introduce to the superior environment of 
> Delphi that way. It seems they now offer a free version of Delphi so I 
> downloaded and installed it, towards the weekend I will try it out but 
> it seems they have made drastic changes to the interface which is now 
> similar to Mono so we will see if it works out. There is always Lazarus 
> for a Delphi interface.
> 
> In the meantime I will halt development the C version of the software 
> and give Go a try the VM is worked out and most of the code is in place 
> so I have a guide to proceed with.
> 
> I still can't believe these guys took out Unions, that is such a handy 
> feature but I see why one has no clue what an Union holds at any one 
> time, no ambiguity allowed, the Forth Standard could learn something 
> from that.
> 
> -- 
> Cecil - k5nwa

Why Go and not Rust? Serious question, performance-wise.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59193

On 4/19/2017 6:32 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> I been working on a project using C to create a small Forth VM similar 
> to eForth, I have been making progress and soon it will be time to use 
> that Forth VM as the core of a complete Forth system. Since the core 
> it's written in C and the rest in Forth it should be easy to transport 
> to various CPUs.
> 
> As a side project I bought some books on Go a system programming 
> language and have it setup on my development PC, so I was thinking that 
> once the Forth VM in C is tested and working to rewrite the whole thing 
> in Go as a Go learning exercise.
> 
> I was going to write the whole thing in C++ and even bought a few books 
> on C++, about $150 worth but then I rediscovered why I disliked C++ in 
> the first place so many years ago so that proved a waste of money. That 
> is why I started looking at Go so I could have a more modern language to 
> use in writing system software, it has limited Object programming but 
> unlike C++ which I dislike.
> 
> Go is not available for embedded processors other that ARM but it don't 
> see that as a major problem, it is available for all the major OSes like 
> Windows. OS X, and a multitude of Linux and other similar OSes like BSD.
> 
>   I want to learn Go for other uses so the possibility to use something 
> else besides Go to write this software such as Forth compilers is a 
> possibility. Other options are enhanced Forth like languages such as 
> 8th, or oForth. Since Go is somewhat similar to C it's not a stretch to 
> rewrite working C code in it.
> 
> So, does anyone in the group have experience with Go in writing a Forth 
> compiler or other major software or know of links to someone else's work 
> on using Go in writing compilers?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
Well after a bit of planning and documenting what I wanted to do today 
was the day to start some of the coding and debugging, then Murphy steps in.

I powered up the PC that contained all the development software and all 
hell broke loose, the anti-virus software started flagging all sorts of 
installed software as Malware contaminated (false positives) even after 
telling it to skip checking certain directories it still flags some of 
the software as Malware and delete it, even though the settings are to 
quarantine suspected software. In a short time the machine was a total 
wreck with many of the software packages not functional anymore and it 
ignoring my request to ignore those software packages.

As aside on another machine that contained the same software, it thinks 
all that software is fine, the difference is that the first machine is 
running Windows 7 i386 and the second machine where everything is OK is 
Windows 10 X64 PC.

Several days ago I fired up the machine to make sure all the software 
was fine and it reported no problem, today I fire up the same PC and 
after an anti-virus update all hell broke loose. The Windows 10 PC had 
it's anti-virus software updated also so everything was the same except 
for the OS on them.

Arrg, I hate Windows, all the time it keeps giving more reasons to dump 
it and switch to Linux instead. So now instead of starting to write the 
software I will need to spend some time checking it out to make sure 
everything is working OK on the Windows 10 PC and make sure all the 
needed software is installed there.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59197

On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 3:36:33 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> I powered up the PC that contained all the development software and all 
> hell broke loose, the anti-virus software started flagging all sorts of 
> installed software as Malware contaminated (false positives) even after 
> telling it to skip checking certain directories it still flags some of 
> the software as Malware and delete it, even though the settings are to 
> quarantine suspected software. In a short time the machine was a total 
> wreck with many of the software packages not functional anymore and it 
> ignoring my request to ignore those software packages.

If anti-malware turns your computer into a total wreck, what would malware be like?

I've always been suspicious of anti-malware anyway. I wonder if they are putting the viruses on your computer. This would be done so they can make a big scary announcement: 
"We have recently discovered the BFV (big f'ing virus) that is turning computers into total wrecks. Your computer might be in infected! Our latest anti-virus software removes the BFV and only costs $100"
But, of course, it was their previous anti-virus software that actually infected your computer with the BFV. 
And, of course, this new anti-virus not only removes the BFV but also infects your computer with yet-another virus, that will be removed by yet-another anti-virus program that costs yet-another $100.

I remember on a forum a long time ago the question arose as to what causes pot-holes in the highway. Several engineers puzzled over this question, but they didn't really know. It is true that if water gets under the asphalt it can cause the asphalt to collapse, but water doesn't get under the asphalt because the road is curved so the water runs off the edges and doesn't pool up. Over a long period of time, like several decades, a road will gradually fail, but it shouldn't fail every year.

One engineer then explained the cause. Every summer there was a job available for college students repairing pot holes in the highway. This job was much coveted because it paid well, and the workers were unsupervised. The workers had a barrel of diesel fuel that they put the shovels in to prevent the asphalt from hardening on the shovels. So, it was obvious to them that diesel fuel softens asphalt. It was also obvious that if pot-holes needed to be repaired the next year, they would get the job because they had experience (in all jobs, experience is the primary hiring factor). So, they would occasionally stop their truck and shovel out a few scoops of diesel fuel onto the road for the purpose of creating a new pot-hole. It took all year for the pot-hole to develop as people drove over the soft spot, but the next year when they had their job again, they would find their pot-hole exactly where they put it.

Similarly, Elizabeth Rather brought ANS-Forth out on the promise that it would fix the screwed-up Forth-83 standard. Who screwed up the Forth-83 standard though? Elizabeth Rather kicked Charles Moore out of Forth Inc. in 1982, and Forth-83 came out in 1983, so it was Elizabeth Rather who screwed up the Forth-83 standard. Now the Forth-200x committee promises that Forth-200x will fix the screwed up ANS-Forth standard --- and all of the Forth-200x committee members were appointed by Elizabeth Rather! --- and Forth-200x, with its recognizers and Paysan-faked quotations, is even more screwed up than ANS-Forth!

Similarly, every election the politicians promise that if they are elected they will end corruption in government, which the politicians who got elected last time failed to do, although they had also made the same promise. Our congress goes back and forth between a Democrat and Republican majority every election --- the voters are like two idiots riding a seesaw --- they just oscillate up and down, every cycle believing that they are rocketing upward into the sky and their last downfall was just a temporary setback...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59198

On 5/13/2017 8:37 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 3:36:33 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
>> I powered up the PC that contained all the development software and all
>> hell broke loose, the anti-virus software started flagging all sorts of
>> installed software as Malware contaminated (false positives) even after
>> telling it to skip checking certain directories it still flags some of
>> the software as Malware and delete it, even though the settings are to
>> quarantine suspected software. In a short time the machine was a total
>> wreck with many of the software packages not functional anymore and it
>> ignoring my request to ignore those software packages.
> 
> If anti-malware turns your computer into a total wreck, what would malware be like?
> 
> I've always been suspicious of anti-malware anyway. I wonder if they are putting the viruses on your computer. This would be done so they can make a big scary announcement:
> "We have recently discovered the BFV (big f'ing virus) that is turning computers into total wrecks. Your computer might be in infected! Our latest anti-virus software removes the BFV and only costs $100"
> But, of course, it was their previous anti-virus software that actually infected your computer with the BFV.
> And, of course, this new anti-virus not only removes the BFV but also infects your computer with yet-another virus, that will be removed by yet-another anti-virus program that costs yet-another $100.
> 

I think its a bug on the Windows 7 i386 version of the software, several 
Win10 X64 machines have exactly the same development software and the 
anti-virus software thinks everything is fine. I reverted the offending 
PC to Windows 10 X64 with the same applications and same anti-virus and 
everything is fine. A full scan of the PC while running Windows 7 showed 
no viruses or malware but the runtime detection went berserk and started 
deleting software.

I'm so pissed off, I'm taking a break and will watch some movies for the 
rest of the night instead of working with the PC.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59200

On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 6:52:58 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> I'm so pissed off, I'm taking a break and will watch some movies for the 
> rest of the night instead of working with the PC.

I recommend: "The Big Short"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59328

On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 7:25:13 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 6:52:58 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> > I'm so pissed off, I'm taking a break and will watch some movies for the 
> > rest of the night instead of working with the PC.
> 
> I recommend: "The Big Short"

If you prefer a movie about computers, I would recommend: "The Snowden Files"

I read the book, although I didn't see the movie (I did see the trailer and it appeared to be somewhat over-dramatized, with a car getting blown up from a missile fired from a helicopter, although nothing like that was mentioned in the book).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59334

On 5/15/2017 2:44 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 7:25:13 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 6:52:58 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
>>> I'm so pissed off, I'm taking a break and will watch some movies for the
>>> rest of the night instead of working with the PC.
>>
>> I recommend: "The Big Short"
> 
> If you prefer a movie about computers, I would recommend: "The Snowden Files"
> 
> I read the book, although I didn't see the movie (I did see the trailer and it appeared to be somewhat over-dramatized, with a car getting blown up from a missile fired from a helicopter, although nothing like that was mentioned in the book).
> 

Its on my NetFlix list.

The other day I was switching a monitor and I put in a 30" monitor that 
also has Internet access which I had never used so I tried it. Wow, 
quite a few of the shows and movies went up in quality by quite a bit on 
some it was HD quality, my Internet is not slow so the Monitor must be 
asking for modes from the servers that are not available from the PC. So 
from now on Netflix and Amazon video will be direct to the monitor.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59341

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 3:27:34 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> The other day I was switching a monitor and I put in a 30" monitor that 
> also has Internet access which I had never used so I tried it. Wow, 
> quite a few of the shows and movies went up in quality by quite a bit...

I should get one of those monitors! 

Most of the movies these days are of pretty low quality --- predictable plots, ham acting, overuse of car chases and gunfights, etc. --- they could really go up in quality by more than a bit!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59343

On 5/15/2017 9:43 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 3:27:34 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
>> The other day I was switching a monitor and I put in a 30" monitor that
>> also has Internet access which I had never used so I tried it. Wow,
>> quite a few of the shows and movies went up in quality by quite a bit...
> 
> I should get one of those monitors!
> 
> Most of the movies these days are of pretty low quality --- predictable plots, ham acting, overuse of car chases and gunfights, etc. --- they could really go up in quality by more than a bit!
> 

Not quality of the show plot, acting, etc, but quality of the display image.

Predictable plots is hard to get away from so I watch an lot of foreign 
shows, British dramas, Korean. Japanese, and Chinese dramas and comedies.

I'm watching right now one of my favorite Korean period dramas, they 
also tend to be longer than US mini-series, the current drama is 20 
episodes long, the one before this one was 49 and the one before that 
one was 50 episodes of 1 hour each (Monster), with no commercials. 
Chinese dramas are fairly good their comedies not as good, in Chinese 
comedies people talk different than in a drama or a real person.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59356

On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 05:55:41 UTC+1, Cecil - k5nwa  wrote:
> On 5/15/2017 9:43 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 3:27:34 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> >> The other day I was switching a monitor and I put in a 30" monitor that
> >> also has Internet access which I had never used so I tried it. Wow,
> >> quite a few of the shows and movies went up in quality by quite a bit...
> > 
> > I should get one of those monitors!
> > 
> > Most of the movies these days are of pretty low quality --- predictable plots, ham acting, overuse of car chases and gunfights, etc. --- they could really go up in quality by more than a bit!
> > 
> 
> Not quality of the show plot, acting, etc, but quality of the display image.
> 
> Predictable plots is hard to get away from so I watch an lot of foreign 
> shows, British dramas, Korean. Japanese, and Chinese dramas and comedies.
> 
> I'm watching right now one of my favorite Korean period dramas, they 
> also tend to be longer than US mini-series, the current drama is 20 
> episodes long, the one before this one was 49 and the one before that 
> one was 50 episodes of 1 hour each (Monster), with no commercials. 
> Chinese dramas are fairly good their comedies not as good, in Chinese 
> comedies people talk different than in a drama or a real person.
> 
> -- 
> Cecil - k5nwa

I'm watching a lot of British dramas from the 70s. Currently working my way
through Public Eye starring Alfred Burke. Wow. Sublime. The simplicity is
an antidote to today's over-the-top programming.

It's the same with films. I'm discovering the old stuff. I recently watched
Stromboli (1950) starring Ingrid Bergman. Beautiful.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#59344

On 5/15/2017 9:43 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 3:27:34 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
>> The other day I was switching a monitor and I put in a 30" monitor that
>> also has Internet access which I had never used so I tried it. Wow,
>> quite a few of the shows and movies went up in quality by quite a bit...
> 
> I should get one of those monitors!
> 
> Most of the movies these days are of pretty low quality --- predictable plots, ham acting, overuse of car chases and gunfights, etc. --- they could really go up in quality by more than a bit!
> 

Its just a monitor with Network interface, nothing fancy, I bought 2 for 
$159 because they were discontinuing the model, I had the money 
available, I should have bought 3 of them. 120Hz refresh.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 6 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.forth

csiph-web