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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #56164 > unrolled thread

comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM

Started byRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
First post2017-03-23 02:17 -0500
Last post2017-05-11 20:59 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 184 — 31 participants

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  comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-23 02:17 -0500
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 00:27 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-23 11:50 +0000
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-23 12:34 -0500
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 10:56 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM mentificium@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 05:25 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 19:23 -0400
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM john <anon@example.com> - 2017-05-03 10:54 +0100
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM mentificium@gmail.com - 2017-05-04 05:28 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 17:46 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 18:49 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-24 22:09 -0500
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 20:47 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-03-25 10:49 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 12:39 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM The Beez <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 02:07 -0700
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-10 11:23 +0200
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-10 16:29 -1000
          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-11 13:39 -0700
            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 16:01 -0500
              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-11 21:41 -1000
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-12 03:18 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-12 19:12 -0500
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-12 19:15 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:01 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-05-16 17:59 -0400
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-24 16:57 -0400
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-26 02:28 -0700
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-12 17:44 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-13 00:21 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:15 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-13 00:30 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-13 04:43 -0500
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-13 12:51 +0100
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-13 08:47 -0500
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 09:57 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-13 18:26 +0100
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 10:59 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:36 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-14 00:33 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 12:04 -0500
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-14 11:45 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-14 12:02 -0700
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 14:22 -0500
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-14 23:08 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 14:12 -0500
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-14 12:25 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 14:48 -0500
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-05-15 00:24 -0400
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 00:14 -0500
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 00:17 -0500
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 00:30 -0500
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 09:54 +0100
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 02:27 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-05-15 00:24 -0400
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 09:53 +0100
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-15 16:31 +0200
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 11:43 -0700
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 15:47 -0700
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 20:06 -0700
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 12:05 +0100
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-16 15:00 +0000
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 10:52 -0700
                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 19:33 +0100
                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-16 21:11 +0200
                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 21:25 +0100
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-17 07:48 +0200
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 10:50 -0700
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 19:27 +0100
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 11:42 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 20:22 +0100
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 12:57 -0700
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 13:01 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 13:01 +0100
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 14:09 +0200
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 07:00 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 22:15 -0700
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 22:21 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 08:04 +0200
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 23:10 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 08:19 +0200
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 23:29 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 08:44 +0100
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 01:13 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 10:02 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 01:29 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 11:34 +0200
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 03:56 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-18 09:44 +0000
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-18 09:42 +0000
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 03:59 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 13:01 +0200
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-18 08:26 +0100
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-18 09:37 +0000
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-18 08:16 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 11:04 -0500
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 19:41 +0100
                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-16 21:05 +0200
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 11:21 -0700
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 20:32 +0100
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 19:35 -0700
                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 11:06 -0700
                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 19:30 +0100
                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 12:02 -0700
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 20:41 +0100
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 19:17 -0700
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 20:58 -0700
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 10:46 +0100
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 08:43 -0500
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 16:00 +0100
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-20 01:47 -0700
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 13:03 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-20 17:51 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-21 07:51 +0100
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 00:11 -0700
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-21 17:46 +0100
                                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 10:34 -0700
                                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-21 20:57 +0100
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 04:08 -0500
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 10:51 +0100
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 05:15 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 14:51 +0100
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 09:18 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 21:15 +0100
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 19:49 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-19 07:10 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-19 07:42 -0500
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 09:59 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 18:48 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-19 12:40 +0100
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 20:57 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-20 03:42 -0500
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-20 02:00 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 10:15 +0100
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 13:34 +0100
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-20 02:01 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 13:18 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-19 17:06 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 08:31 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-19 17:02 +0100
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 09:18 -0700
                                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 09:34 -0700
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-18 16:40 +0200
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-18 08:12 -0700
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 02:30 -0700
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 18:57 -0700
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-20 14:01 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-21 19:55 +0200
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 11:57 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 12:41 -0700
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 13:02 -0700
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 14:43 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 16:32 -0700
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 18:46 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-22 07:05 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-23 13:45 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-23 22:02 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-24 01:00 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-24 14:07 +0100
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 22:14 -0700
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-16 18:48 -1000
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 15:06 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:16 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 12:18 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:58 -0700
              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 03:32 -0700
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-12 19:29 -0500
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 08:25 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-13 13:25 -0500
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2017-05-15 05:45 +0000
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 06:54 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-15 16:30 +0200
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-16 00:32 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 19:25 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-16 21:15 -0700
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 21:34 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 08:39 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 12:38 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 17:32 -0500
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-16 10:06 +0200
            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:51 -0700
          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:50 -0700
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:47 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Bill Zimmerly <billzimmerly@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 20:59 -0700

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#59107

From"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com>
Date2017-05-11 21:41 -1000
Message-ID<FPednQJRxeDZ-ojEnZ2dnUU7-aXNnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#59098
On 5/11/17 11:01 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 5/11/2017 3:39 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
>> wrote:
>>> On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
>>>> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people
>>>> are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the
>>>> number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any
>>>> REAL code in OO?
>>>
>>> Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out
>>> c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing.
>>> That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.
>>
>> You insult all Forth programmers by describing yourself as the
>> "leading expert" of Forth, which implies that all Forth programmers
>> are inferior to you.
>>
>> When you teach your course in Forth, how many of those students become
>> Forth programmers? None! You turn them off from Forth with your
>> arrogance. You can't name any student of your novice class that has
>> become a Forth programmer --- all of them thought that you were a
>> low-grade moron because you were teaching them to use PAD for holding
>> strings, and all of them went back to programming in C --- all of them
>> spent the rest of their lives telling the other C programmers that
>> they learned Forth from the "leading expert" in Forth, and found Forth
>> to be utterly stupid.
>>
>
> None might be a tad much, I would assume that some go back to where they
> came from and use Forth in projects, we really don't know for a fact as
> to what happens to the student.

Actually, most of them continued to use Forth in projects, at least for 
a time. Ray Duncan was one of my earlier students. Leon Wagner, Brad 
Rodriguez, many more have had long careers in Forth.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
Elizabeth D. Rather
FORTH, Inc.
6080 Center Drive, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA  90045
USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#59110

FromJUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date2017-05-12 03:18 -0700
Message-ID<58d4e310-9cf0-47f3-8580-bca9b3714863@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59107
On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 8:42:01 AM UTC+1, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 5/11/17 11:01 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> > On 5/11/2017 3:39 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
> >> wrote:
> >>> On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
> >>>> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people
> >>>> are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the
> >>>> number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any
> >>>> REAL code in OO?
> >>>
> >>> Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out
> >>> c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing.
> >>> That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.
> >>
> >> You insult all Forth programmers by describing yourself as the
> >> "leading expert" of Forth, which implies that all Forth programmers
> >> are inferior to you.
> >>
> >> When you teach your course in Forth, how many of those students become
> >> Forth programmers? None! You turn them off from Forth with your
> >> arrogance. You can't name any student of your novice class that has
> >> become a Forth programmer --- all of them thought that you were a
> >> low-grade moron because you were teaching them to use PAD for holding
> >> strings, and all of them went back to programming in C --- all of them
> >> spent the rest of their lives telling the other C programmers that
> >> they learned Forth from the "leading expert" in Forth, and found Forth
> >> to be utterly stupid.
> >>
> >
> > None might be a tad much, I would assume that some go back to where they
> > came from and use Forth in projects, we really don't know for a fact as
> > to what happens to the student.
> 
> Actually, most of them continued to use Forth in projects, at least for 
> a time. Ray Duncan was one of my earlier students. Leon Wagner, Brad 
> Rodriguez, many more have had long careers in Forth.
> 
> Cheers,
> Elizabeth
> 
> -- 
> Elizabeth D. Rather
> FORTH, Inc.
> 6080 Center Drive, Suite 600
> Los Angeles, CA  90045
> USA

Forth Killer Hugh Aquilar has no clue how the commercial world works.  He has definitely pissed off more people here and as well turned them off using Forth than anybody else could probably. 
I assume your training is mostly paid for - so his arrogance to judge the reasons for them to come to your courses is beyond me and probably most of the people here.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#59135

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-05-12 19:12 -0500
Message-ID<of5ira$eo2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59110
On 5/12/2017 5:18 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 8:42:01 AM UTC+1, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>> On 5/11/17 11:01 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>> On 5/11/2017 3:39 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
>>>>>> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people
>>>>>> are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the
>>>>>> number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any
>>>>>> REAL code in OO?
>>>>>
>>>>> Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out
>>>>> c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing.
>>>>> That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.
>>>>
>>>> You insult all Forth programmers by describing yourself as the
>>>> "leading expert" of Forth, which implies that all Forth programmers
>>>> are inferior to you.
>>>>
>>>> When you teach your course in Forth, how many of those students become
>>>> Forth programmers? None! You turn them off from Forth with your
>>>> arrogance. You can't name any student of your novice class that has
>>>> become a Forth programmer --- all of them thought that you were a
>>>> low-grade moron because you were teaching them to use PAD for holding
>>>> strings, and all of them went back to programming in C --- all of them
>>>> spent the rest of their lives telling the other C programmers that
>>>> they learned Forth from the "leading expert" in Forth, and found Forth
>>>> to be utterly stupid.
>>>>
>>>
>>> None might be a tad much, I would assume that some go back to where they
>>> came from and use Forth in projects, we really don't know for a fact as
>>> to what happens to the student.
>>
>> Actually, most of them continued to use Forth in projects, at least for
>> a time. Ray Duncan was one of my earlier students. Leon Wagner, Brad
>> Rodriguez, many more have had long careers in Forth.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Elizabeth
>>
>> -- 
>> Elizabeth D. Rather
>> FORTH, Inc.
>> 6080 Center Drive, Suite 600
>> Los Angeles, CA  90045
>> USA
> 
> Forth Killer Hugh Aquilar has no clue how the commercial world works.  He has definitely pissed off more people here and as well turned them off using Forth than anybody else could probably.
> I assume your training is mostly paid for - so his arrogance to judge the reasons for them to come to your courses is beyond me and probably most of the people here.
> 

I would assume that most companies that use a non-standard like Forth 
keep quiet about it for one of several reasons;

1. They consider Forth of be a strategic advantage over the competition 
and therefore they keep quiet about what software they use. This can be 
an advantage with a company that interfaces to changing hardware as 
Forth is great at that task.

2. They appreciate the advantage Forth can give so they use it but are 
embarrassed to admit they are using software that the programming 
community looks down on.

3. They figure what they use is no ones business but their own and don't 
discuss what they are doing with the general public.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#59143

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-12 19:15 -0700
Message-ID<7cc32301-28bf-49c3-8ddb-43f5571588b7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59135
On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 5:12:35 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> On 5/12/2017 5:18 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
> > Forth Killer Hugh Aquilar has no clue how the commercial world works.  He has definitely pissed off more people here and as well turned them off using Forth than anybody else could probably.
> > I assume your training is mostly paid for - so his arrogance to judge the reasons for them to come to your courses is beyond me and probably most of the people here.
> 
> I would assume that most companies that use a non-standard like Forth 
> keep quiet about it for one of several reasons;
> 
> 1. They consider Forth of be a strategic advantage over the competition 
> and therefore they keep quiet about what software they use. This can be 
> an advantage with a company that interfaces to changing hardware as 
> Forth is great at that task.
> 
> 2. They appreciate the advantage Forth can give so they use it but are 
> embarrassed to admit they are using software that the programming 
> community looks down on.
> 
> 3. They figure what they use is no ones business but their own and don't 
> discuss what they are doing with the general public.

I was told at Testra that they would not build an experimenters' board for the RACE because: "hobbyists require too much support, and they don't have any money."

Support is a big problem for anybody selling a Forth compiler. The entire Forth language has to be documented because there is no standard for Forth --- ANS-Forth is useless crippleware that bans features, so these features get implemented in various non-standard ways in the various Forth compilers.

ANS-Forth is also ambiguous, so significant amounts of documentation are needed for any particular ANS-Forth compiler to describe how it differs from all the other ANS-Forth compilers --- other languages have a standard, so somebody can become a "portable programmer" in the sense of being able to work with any standard-compliant compiler, and being able to carry code-libraries between the standard-compliant compilers.

A company may use Forth, but only for in-house programming --- none of this Forth code is exposed to the outside world --- the employees will avoid Forth like the plague because they know that becoming skilled at a non-standard in-house programming language does not help them get employment anywhere else, so it is a dead-end job (this was my situation at Testra).

Of course, REXX is an in-house programming language at IBM --- that is not so bad though, because IBM pays well and provides health insurance --- companies that use Forth tend to be rinky-dink operations offering low pay and zero benefits in exchange for hard work.

Also, there is the problem of boredom --- I was pretty proud of MFX, but that didn't mean that I wanted to spend my life as one of only two MFX programmers in the world --- money cures boredom, because you can have a fun hobby on the side (I like skiing and snow-boarding, but I had to stop doing this when I worked at Testra because I didn't have any health insurance if I were to get injured, plus the tickets and equipment cost money).

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#59398

Fromgavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-16 12:01 -0700
Message-ID<7d73a539-674b-4ca9-98c0-cd16a794c54b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59143
On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 10:15:57 PM UTC-4, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 5:12:35 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> > On 5/12/2017 5:18 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
> > > Forth Killer Hugh Aquilar has no clue how the commercial world works.  He has definitely pissed off more people here and as well turned them off using Forth than anybody else could probably.
> > > I assume your training is mostly paid for - so his arrogance to judge the reasons for them to come to your courses is beyond me and probably most of the people here.
> > 
> > I would assume that most companies that use a non-standard like Forth 
> > keep quiet about it for one of several reasons;
> > 
> > 1. They consider Forth of be a strategic advantage over the competition 
> > and therefore they keep quiet about what software they use. This can be 
> > an advantage with a company that interfaces to changing hardware as 
> > Forth is great at that task.
> > 
> > 2. They appreciate the advantage Forth can give so they use it but are 
> > embarrassed to admit they are using software that the programming 
> > community looks down on.
> > 
> > 3. They figure what they use is no ones business but their own and don't 
> > discuss what they are doing with the general public.
> 
> I was told at Testra that they would not build an experimenters' board for the RACE because: "hobbyists require too much support, and they don't have any money."
> 
> Support is a big problem for anybody selling a Forth compiler. The entire Forth language has to be documented because there is no standard for Forth --- ANS-Forth is useless crippleware that bans features, so these features get implemented in various non-standard ways in the various Forth compilers.
> 
> ANS-Forth is also ambiguous, so significant amounts of documentation are needed for any particular ANS-Forth compiler to describe how it differs from all the other ANS-Forth compilers --- other languages have a standard, so somebody can become a "portable programmer" in the sense of being able to work with any standard-compliant compiler, and being able to carry code-libraries between the standard-compliant compilers.
> 
> A company may use Forth, but only for in-house programming --- none of this Forth code is exposed to the outside world --- the employees will avoid Forth like the plague because they know that becoming skilled at a non-standard in-house programming language does not help them get employment anywhere else, so it is a dead-end job (this was my situation at Testra).
> 
> Of course, REXX is an in-house programming language at IBM --- that is not so bad though, because IBM pays well and provides health insurance --- companies that use Forth tend to be rinky-dink operations offering low pay and zero benefits in exchange for hard work.
> 
> Also, there is the problem of boredom --- I was pretty proud of MFX, but that didn't mean that I wanted to spend my life as one of only two MFX programmers in the world --- money cures boredom, because you can have a fun hobby on the side (I like skiing and snow-boarding, but I had to stop doing this when I worked at Testra because I didn't have any health insurance if I were to get injured, plus the tickets and equipment cost money).

This is why I always talk about a forth powered PC!!!!

China is making loongsong cpu and pc hek stallman has 1

if forth  chip can run on minimal power and still suport movie watching and browser.......boom you can invent your own competitive industry for intel and AMD!!

I would get one!

esp if usb3 lets me have 4t external drives for all the bittorrent movies n all that

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#59407

FromRod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem>
Date2017-05-16 17:59 -0400
Message-ID<20170516175914.42ef3c01@_>
In reply to#59398
On Tue, 16 May 2017 12:01:29 -0700 (PDT)
gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is why I always talk about a forth powered PC!!!!

Electricity powers PCs.  Forth could control a PC.  The usual problem
with adoption of a different solution, e.g., switching from C to Forth
in this case, is that the new solution must not only be better, but must
be significantly superior in some critical aspect.  I'm not sure that
it's demonstrable that Forth is extremely better than C.  Of course, C
is reviled enough that we've seen numerous new languages over the last
few decades. However, it still ranks at the top of programming lists,
but is losing ground to newcomers:

https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/


Rod Pemberton
-- 
"Well, many people are really f---ing stupid too.  Should we just adopt
all their standards?" - George Carlin

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#59790

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-24 16:57 -0400
Message-ID<og4rsl$9da$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59110
JUERGEN wrote:
> On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 8:42:01 AM UTC+1, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>> On 5/11/17 11:01 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>> On 5/11/2017 3:39 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
>>>>>> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people
>>>>>> are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the
>>>>>> number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any
>>>>>> REAL code in OO?
>>>>>
>>>>> Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out
>>>>> c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing.
>>>>> That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.
>>>>
>>>> You insult all Forth programmers by describing yourself as the
>>>> "leading expert" of Forth, which implies that all Forth programmers
>>>> are inferior to you.
>>>>
>>>> When you teach your course in Forth, how many of those students become
>>>> Forth programmers? None! You turn them off from Forth with your
>>>> arrogance. You can't name any student of your novice class that has
>>>> become a Forth programmer --- all of them thought that you were a
>>>> low-grade moron because you were teaching them to use PAD for holding
>>>> strings, and all of them went back to programming in C --- all of them
>>>> spent the rest of their lives telling the other C programmers that
>>>> they learned Forth from the "leading expert" in Forth, and found Forth
>>>> to be utterly stupid.
>>>>
>>>
>>> None might be a tad much, I would assume that some go back to where they
>>> came from and use Forth in projects, we really don't know for a fact as
>>> to what happens to the student.
>>
>> Actually, most of them continued to use Forth in projects, at least for
>> a time. Ray Duncan was one of my earlier students. Leon Wagner, Brad
>> Rodriguez, many more have had long careers in Forth.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Elizabeth
>>
>> --
>> Elizabeth D. Rather
>> FORTH, Inc.
>> 6080 Center Drive, Suite 600
>> Los Angeles, CA  90045
>> USA
>
> Forth Killer Hugh Aquilar has no clue how the commercial world works.  He has definitely pissed off more people here and as well turned them off using Forth than anybody else could probably.
> I assume your training is mostly paid for - so his arrogance to judge the reasons for them to come to your courses is beyond me and probably most of the people here.

I wouldn't say "pissed off".  I think he annoys people here with his 
insane rants.  But in reality he is easy to deal with, just ignore him. 
Then he ends his rants whereas responding to ranting only produces more 
ranting.

It is no different than dealing with a small child in a public place. 
It isn't your place to discipline other's kids.  Just ignore them until 
their mother comes to take them home.

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#59846

FromJUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date2017-05-26 02:28 -0700
Message-ID<143532b8-3b81-47a7-9ca5-5d83f6a63bff@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59790
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017 at 9:57:08 PM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
> JUERGEN wrote:
> > On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 8:42:01 AM UTC+1, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> >> On 5/11/17 11:01 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> >>> On 5/11/2017 3:39 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
> >>>>>> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people
> >>>>>> are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the
> >>>>>> number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any
> >>>>>> REAL code in OO?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out
> >>>>> c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing.
> >>>>> That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.
> >>>>
> >>>> You insult all Forth programmers by describing yourself as the
> >>>> "leading expert" of Forth, which implies that all Forth programmers
> >>>> are inferior to you.
> >>>>
> >>>> When you teach your course in Forth, how many of those students become
> >>>> Forth programmers? None! You turn them off from Forth with your
> >>>> arrogance. You can't name any student of your novice class that has
> >>>> become a Forth programmer --- all of them thought that you were a
> >>>> low-grade moron because you were teaching them to use PAD for holding
> >>>> strings, and all of them went back to programming in C --- all of them
> >>>> spent the rest of their lives telling the other C programmers that
> >>>> they learned Forth from the "leading expert" in Forth, and found Forth
> >>>> to be utterly stupid.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> None might be a tad much, I would assume that some go back to where they
> >>> came from and use Forth in projects, we really don't know for a fact as
> >>> to what happens to the student.
> >>
> >> Actually, most of them continued to use Forth in projects, at least for
> >> a time. Ray Duncan was one of my earlier students. Leon Wagner, Brad
> >> Rodriguez, many more have had long careers in Forth.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Elizabeth
> >>
> >> --
> >> Elizabeth D. Rather
> >> FORTH, Inc.
> >> 6080 Center Drive, Suite 600
> >> Los Angeles, CA  90045
> >> USA
> >
> > Forth Killer Hugh Aquilar has no clue how the commercial world works.  He has definitely pissed off more people here and as well turned them off using Forth than anybody else could probably.
> > I assume your training is mostly paid for - so his arrogance to judge the reasons for them to come to your courses is beyond me and probably most of the people here.
> 
> I wouldn't say "pissed off".  I think he annoys people here with his 
> insane rants.  But in reality he is easy to deal with, just ignore him. 
> Then he ends his rants whereas responding to ranting only produces more 
> ranting.
> 
> It is no different than dealing with a small child in a public place. 
> It isn't your place to discipline other's kids.  Just ignore them until 
> their mother comes to take them home.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick C

You are right. Some people get pissed off, some do not.
But if they look at such posts here and see that it is like you state
> It is no different than dealing with a small child in a public place. 
> It isn't your place to discipline other's kids.  Just ignore them until 
> their mother comes to take them home.
They do as you say and walk away from such Kindergarden discussions and go elsewhere. Job done.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#59140

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-12 17:44 -0700
Message-ID<2249331a-2285-40be-b479-0e4a3b3d34f9@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59107
On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 12:42:01 AM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 5/11/17 11:01 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> > On 5/11/2017 3:39 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
> >> wrote:
> >>> On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
> >>>> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people
> >>>> are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the
> >>>> number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any
> >>>> REAL code in OO?
> >>>
> >>> Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out
> >>> c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing.
> >>> That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.
> >>
> >> You insult all Forth programmers by describing yourself as the
> >> "leading expert" of Forth, which implies that all Forth programmers
> >> are inferior to you.
> >>
> >> When you teach your course in Forth, how many of those students become
> >> Forth programmers? None! You turn them off from Forth with your
> >> arrogance. You can't name any student of your novice class that has
> >> become a Forth programmer --- all of them thought that you were a
> >> low-grade moron because you were teaching them to use PAD for holding
> >> strings, and all of them went back to programming in C --- all of them
> >> spent the rest of their lives telling the other C programmers that
> >> they learned Forth from the "leading expert" in Forth, and found Forth
> >> to be utterly stupid.
> >>
> >
> > None might be a tad much, I would assume that some go back to where they
> > came from and use Forth in projects, we really don't know for a fact as
> > to what happens to the student.
> 
> Actually, most of them continued to use Forth in projects, at least for 
> a time. Ray Duncan was one of my earlier students. Leon Wagner, Brad 
> Rodriguez, many more have had long careers in Forth.

You routinely brag about your association with people who have accomplishments --- you have made a career out of bragging about your association with Charles Moore --- but none of these people brag about being associated with you.

Ray Duncan of Laboratory Microsystems Inc. sold UR/Forth. This had very good support for strings --- my own <CSTR etc. is loosely based on UR/Forth's string package --- you put PAD in ANS-Forth because that is really the entirety of your knowledge of strings, and now you describe my STRING-STACK.4TH as being useless.

As for Brad Rodriguez, he has accomplishments in Forth --- I've never heard of him bragging about his association with you.

I've never heard of anybody who has accomplishments in Forth bragging about their association with you --- instead, you have twits and creeps such as Julien Fondren and Rick Collins --- your novice class at Forth Inc. drives intelligent people away from Forth.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#59155

FromJUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date2017-05-13 00:21 -0700
Message-ID<a4aba2c1-a0fd-4927-8423-f27afbe2a572@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59140
On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 1:44:48 AM UTC+1, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 12:42:01 AM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> > On 5/11/17 11:01 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> > > On 5/11/2017 3:39 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
> > >> wrote:
> > >>> On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
> > >>>> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people
> > >>>> are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the
> > >>>> number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any
> > >>>> REAL code in OO?
> > >>>
> > >>> Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out
> > >>> c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing.
> > >>> That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.
> > >>
> > >> You insult all Forth programmers by describing yourself as the
> > >> "leading expert" of Forth, which implies that all Forth programmers
> > >> are inferior to you.
> > >>
> > >> When you teach your course in Forth, how many of those students become
> > >> Forth programmers? None! You turn them off from Forth with your
> > >> arrogance. You can't name any student of your novice class that has
> > >> become a Forth programmer --- all of them thought that you were a
> > >> low-grade moron because you were teaching them to use PAD for holding
> > >> strings, and all of them went back to programming in C --- all of them
> > >> spent the rest of their lives telling the other C programmers that
> > >> they learned Forth from the "leading expert" in Forth, and found Forth
> > >> to be utterly stupid.
> > >>
> > >
> > > None might be a tad much, I would assume that some go back to where they
> > > came from and use Forth in projects, we really don't know for a fact as
> > > to what happens to the student.
> > 
> > Actually, most of them continued to use Forth in projects, at least for 
> > a time. Ray Duncan was one of my earlier students. Leon Wagner, Brad 
> > Rodriguez, many more have had long careers in Forth.
> 
> You routinely brag about your association with people who have accomplishments --- you have made a career out of bragging about your association with Charles Moore --- but none of these people brag about being associated with you.
> 
> Ray Duncan of Laboratory Microsystems Inc. sold UR/Forth. This had very good support for strings --- my own <CSTR etc. is loosely based on UR/Forth's string package --- you put PAD in ANS-Forth because that is really the entirety of your knowledge of strings, and now you describe my STRING-STACK.4TH as being useless.
> 
> As for Brad Rodriguez, he has accomplishments in Forth --- I've never heard of him bragging about his association with you.
> 
> I've never heard of anybody who has accomplishments in Forth bragging about their association with you --- instead, you have twits and creeps such as Julien Fondren and Rick Collins --- your novice class at Forth Inc. drives intelligent people away from Forth.

As outstanding FORTHKILLER YOU are probably the most talked about person in Forth. A lot of people will NOT come out and talk about relationships to any commercial Forth company and especially Elizabeth. If somebody were to dare to do so they know that you would START THROWING SHIT at them and whatever else you ugly mind  makes you do as I have experienced. Nobody wants this - and so you have achieved what you are probably paid for - Kill Forth. They stay stumm.

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#59401

Fromgavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-16 12:15 -0700
Message-ID<d525037a-dc8a-48ce-8bc9-d7ff531973ce@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59155
On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 3:21:19 AM UTC-4, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 1:44:48 AM UTC+1, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 12:42:01 AM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> > > On 5/11/17 11:01 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> > > > On 5/11/2017 3:39 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>> On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
> > > >>>> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people
> > > >>>> are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the
> > > >>>> number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any
> > > >>>> REAL code in OO?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out
> > > >>> c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing.
> > > >>> That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.
> > > >>
> > > >> You insult all Forth programmers by describing yourself as the
> > > >> "leading expert" of Forth, which implies that all Forth programmers
> > > >> are inferior to you.
> > > >>
> > > >> When you teach your course in Forth, how many of those students become
> > > >> Forth programmers? None! You turn them off from Forth with your
> > > >> arrogance. You can't name any student of your novice class that has
> > > >> become a Forth programmer --- all of them thought that you were a
> > > >> low-grade moron because you were teaching them to use PAD for holding
> > > >> strings, and all of them went back to programming in C --- all of them
> > > >> spent the rest of their lives telling the other C programmers that
> > > >> they learned Forth from the "leading expert" in Forth, and found Forth
> > > >> to be utterly stupid.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > None might be a tad much, I would assume that some go back to where they
> > > > came from and use Forth in projects, we really don't know for a fact as
> > > > to what happens to the student.
> > > 
> > > Actually, most of them continued to use Forth in projects, at least for 
> > > a time. Ray Duncan was one of my earlier students. Leon Wagner, Brad 
> > > Rodriguez, many more have had long careers in Forth.
> > 
> > You routinely brag about your association with people who have accomplishments --- you have made a career out of bragging about your association with Charles Moore --- but none of these people brag about being associated with you.
> > 
> > Ray Duncan of Laboratory Microsystems Inc. sold UR/Forth. This had very good support for strings --- my own <CSTR etc. is loosely based on UR/Forth's string package --- you put PAD in ANS-Forth because that is really the entirety of your knowledge of strings, and now you describe my STRING-STACK.4TH as being useless.
> > 
> > As for Brad Rodriguez, he has accomplishments in Forth --- I've never heard of him bragging about his association with you.
> > 
> > I've never heard of anybody who has accomplishments in Forth bragging about their association with you --- instead, you have twits and creeps such as Julien Fondren and Rick Collins --- your novice class at Forth Inc. drives intelligent people away from Forth.
> 
> As outstanding FORTHKILLER YOU are probably the most talked about person in Forth. A lot of people will NOT come out and talk about relationships to any commercial Forth company and especially Elizabeth. If somebody were to dare to do so they know that you would START THROWING SHIT at them and whatever else you ugly mind  makes you do as I have experienced. Nobody wants this - and so you have achieved what you are probably paid for - Kill Forth. They stay stumm.

jurgen get rid of your offensive insulting manor and write books or publish examples on howto use forth better so everyone benefits.
This fighting among forth experts is pointless.
Forth gods should work together on great books and code examples.
Forth can certainly do better than lots of current software if the bickering stops and the writing starts.
IF you argue have a competition both do it the way you think is right and publish the book and code!
Friendly competition is an upward spiral in free software world the ultimate capitalism.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#59156

FromJUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date2017-05-13 00:30 -0700
Message-ID<c031e2c3-b8ba-46da-9a94-db8324758f68@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59140
On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 1:44:48 AM UTC+1, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 12:42:01 AM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> > On 5/11/17 11:01 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> > > On 5/11/2017 3:39 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather
> > >> wrote:
> > >>> On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
> > >>>> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people
> > >>>> are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the
> > >>>> number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any
> > >>>> REAL code in OO?
> > >>>
> > >>> Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out
> > >>> c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing.
> > >>> That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.
> > >>
> > >> You insult all Forth programmers by describing yourself as the
> > >> "leading expert" of Forth, which implies that all Forth programmers
> > >> are inferior to you.
> > >>
> > >> When you teach your course in Forth, how many of those students become
> > >> Forth programmers? None! You turn them off from Forth with your
> > >> arrogance. You can't name any student of your novice class that has
> > >> become a Forth programmer --- all of them thought that you were a
> > >> low-grade moron because you were teaching them to use PAD for holding
> > >> strings, and all of them went back to programming in C --- all of them
> > >> spent the rest of their lives telling the other C programmers that
> > >> they learned Forth from the "leading expert" in Forth, and found Forth
> > >> to be utterly stupid.
> > >>
> > >
> > > None might be a tad much, I would assume that some go back to where they
> > > came from and use Forth in projects, we really don't know for a fact as
> > > to what happens to the student.
> > 
> > Actually, most of them continued to use Forth in projects, at least for 
> > a time. Ray Duncan was one of my earlier students. Leon Wagner, Brad 
> > Rodriguez, many more have had long careers in Forth.
> 
> You routinely brag about your association with people who have accomplishments --- you have made a career out of bragging about your association with Charles Moore --- but none of these people brag about being associated with you.
> 
> Ray Duncan of Laboratory Microsystems Inc. sold UR/Forth. This had very good support for strings --- my own <CSTR etc. is loosely based on UR/Forth's string package --- you put PAD in ANS-Forth because that is really the entirety of your knowledge of strings, and now you describe my STRING-STACK.4TH as being useless.
> 
> As for Brad Rodriguez, he has accomplishments in Forth --- I've never heard of him bragging about his association with you.
> 
> I've never heard of anybody who has accomplishments in Forth bragging about their association with you --- instead, you have twits and creeps such as Julien Fondren and Rick Collins --- your novice class at Forth Inc. drives intelligent people away from Forth.

Heil H. - your arrogance is beyond description. Or are you God in disguise? Or just the incarnation of the devil. How do you dare to set the standard about what people are proud about? You main accomplishment is to piss at people and piss off people here and most probably at home. 

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#59161

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2017-05-13 04:43 -0500
Message-ID<1r6dnSizO8LGSIvEnZ2dnUU7-b-dnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#59156
JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Heil H. - your arrogance is beyond description. Or are you God in
> disguise? Or just the incarnation of the devil. How do you dare to
> set the standard about what people are proud about? You main
> accomplishment is to piss at people and piss off people here and
> most probably at home.

Oh dear, Juergen, come on.  You rise much too quickly to this
provocation.  Just think of our resident nutcase[s] as crazy drunkards
yelling at the moon, and pass on quickly by.

Andrew.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#59166

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-05-13 12:51 +0100
Message-ID<of6rqn$af0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59161
On 5/13/2017 10:43, Andrew Haley wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> Heil H. - your arrogance is beyond description. Or are you God in
>> disguise? Or just the incarnation of the devil. How do you dare to
>> set the standard about what people are proud about? You main
>> accomplishment is to piss at people and piss off people here and
>> most probably at home.
> 
> Oh dear, Juergen, come on.  You rise much too quickly to this
> provocation.  Just think of our resident nutcase[s] as crazy drunkards
> yelling at the moon, and pass on quickly by.
> 
> Andrew.
> 

I've nothing but sympathy for Juergen and his obvious anger. Hugh is 
more than a nutcase because it's not the moon he's howling at; it's one 
person that Hugh keeps attacking, year after year after year. That kind 
of sustained and deliberate violence is unacceptable, and should not be 
ignored.

-- 
Alex

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#59167

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2017-05-13 08:47 -0500
Message-ID<KfGdnZGjnobvk4rEnZ2dnUU7-TudnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#59166
Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> wrote:
> On 5/13/2017 10:43, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oh dear, Juergen, come on.  You rise much too quickly to this
>> provocation.  Just think of our resident nutcase[s] as crazy
>> drunkards yelling at the moon, and pass on quickly by.
> 
> I've nothing but sympathy for Juergen and his obvious anger. Hugh is
> more than a nutcase because it's not the moon he's howling at; it's
> one person that Hugh keeps attacking, year after year after
> year. That kind of sustained and deliberate violence is
> unacceptable, and should not be ignored.

Fair enough.  I suppose everyone must act according to their
consicence.

Andrew.

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#59180

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-13 09:57 -0700
Message-ID<0138d5b3-eb36-4269-8e0b-d61ed24736b4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59167
On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 6:47:35 AM UTC-7, Andrew Haley wrote:
> Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> wrote:
> > On 5/13/2017 10:43, Andrew Haley wrote:
> >> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Oh dear, Juergen, come on.  You rise much too quickly to this
> >> provocation.  Just think of our resident nutcase[s] as crazy
> >> drunkards yelling at the moon, and pass on quickly by.
> > 
> > I've nothing but sympathy for Juergen and his obvious anger. Hugh is
> > more than a nutcase because it's not the moon he's howling at; it's
> > one person that Hugh keeps attacking, year after year after
> > year. That kind of sustained and deliberate violence is
> > unacceptable, and should not be ignored.
> 
> Fair enough.  I suppose everyone must act according to their
> consicence.
> 
> Andrew.

Juergen Pintaske is an employee of MPE.
Andrew Haley is an employee of Forth Inc.
Alex McDonald claims that he "does standards for a living" which implies that he is getting paid.

Definitely a pattern here!

Elizabeth Rather has been claiming to be the "leading expert" of Forth year after year after year. That kind of sustained and deliberate violence is unacceptable!

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#59182

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-05-13 18:26 +0100
Message-ID<of7fe6$bid$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59180
On 5/13/2017 17:57, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 6:47:35 AM UTC-7, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/13/2017 10:43, Andrew Haley wrote:
>>>> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Oh dear, Juergen, come on.  You rise much too quickly to this 
>>>> provocation.  Just think of our resident nutcase[s] as crazy 
>>>> drunkards yelling at the moon, and pass on quickly by.
>>> 
>>> I've nothing but sympathy for Juergen and his obvious anger. Hugh
>>> is more than a nutcase because it's not the moon he's howling at;
>>> it's one person that Hugh keeps attacking, year after year after 
>>> year. That kind of sustained and deliberate violence is 
>>> unacceptable, and should not be ignored.
>> 
>> Fair enough.  I suppose everyone must act according to their 
>> consicence.
>> 
>> Andrew.
> 
> Juergen Pintaske is an employee of MPE. Andrew Haley is an employee
> of Forth Inc. Alex McDonald claims that he "does standards for a
> living" which implies that he is getting paid.
> 
> Definitely a pattern here!

Yes. Apart from the fact that Andrew works for Red Hat Inc and not Forth 
Inc, and that I don't get paid for any work on Forth, you're right 
there's a pattern. The pattern is competence; someone is paying us 
because we're worth paying.

You, not so much. It's easy seeing why.

-- 
Alex

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#59184

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-13 10:59 -0700
Message-ID<a591d73e-64f9-401e-8cb0-0aaaa39b8e8a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59182
On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 10:26:39 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> On 5/13/2017 17:57, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > Juergen Pintaske is an employee of MPE. Andrew Haley is an employee
> > of Forth Inc. Alex McDonald claims that he "does standards for a
> > living" which implies that he is getting paid.
> > 
> > Definitely a pattern here!
> 
> Yes. Apart from the fact that Andrew works for Red Hat Inc and not Forth 
> Inc, and that I don't get paid for any work on Forth, you're right 
> there's a pattern. The pattern is competence; someone is paying us 
> because we're worth paying.
> 
> You, not so much. It's easy seeing why.

Definitely a pattern here! 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/SlWTO-SEeJ8%5B76-100%5D

On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 12:33:56 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 11:53:13 AM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> > On 12/5/2016 18:39, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > Andrew Haley is an
> > > employee of Elizabeth Rather
> > 
> > Really?
> > 
> > -- 
> > Alex
> 
> Yes, of course. Why else would he have been appointed to the Forth-200x committee? He says this:
> 
> On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 3:09:53 AM UTC-7, Andrew Haley wrote:
> > Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Forth is a language best taught by experts. You can teach yourself,
> > > but it's going to take a while if you're learning by doing. Using a
> > > commercial Forth is a good way to learn from an expert.
> > 
> > I was fortunate enough to work for COMSOL and attend (and later teach)
> > some training courses and then even do some things with Forth, Inc.
> > I'm not sure that I would ever have really got the idea of Forth
> > without being taught by experts.
> 
> This is the COMSOL he is referring to:
> http://www.computer-solutions.co.uk/chipdev/forth.htm

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#59404

Fromgavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-16 12:36 -0700
Message-ID<de5f0e48-16fb-4fe1-a9b6-1fefc2431152@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59166
On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 7:52:00 AM UTC-4, Alex wrote:
> On 5/13/2017 10:43, Andrew Haley wrote:
> > JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Heil H. - your arrogance is beyond description. Or are you God in
> >> disguise? Or just the incarnation of the devil. How do you dare to
> >> set the standard about what people are proud about? You main
> >> accomplishment is to piss at people and piss off people here and
> >> most probably at home.
> > 
> > Oh dear, Juergen, come on.  You rise much too quickly to this
> > provocation.  Just think of our resident nutcase[s] as crazy drunkards
> > yelling at the moon, and pass on quickly by.
> > 
> > Andrew.
> > 
> 
> I've nothing but sympathy for Juergen and his obvious anger. Hugh is 
> more than a nutcase because it's not the moon he's howling at; it's one 
> person that Hugh keeps attacking, year after year after year. That kind 
> of sustained and deliberate violence is unacceptable, and should not be 
> ignored.
> 
> -- 
> Alex

words ar enot violence and insultig others is just a waste of good energy that could go into books and code

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#59211

FromJUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date2017-05-14 00:33 -0700
Message-ID<939887e4-dac6-49e8-ac62-0f81b36a3f2f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59161
On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 10:44:00 AM UTC+1, Andrew Haley wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Heil H. - your arrogance is beyond description. Or are you God in
> > disguise? Or just the incarnation of the devil. How do you dare to
> > set the standard about what people are proud about? You main
> > accomplishment is to piss at people and piss off people here and
> > most probably at home.
> 
> Oh dear, Juergen, come on.  You rise much too quickly to this
> provocation.  Just think of our resident nutcase[s] as crazy drunkards
> yelling at the moon, and pass on quickly by.
> 
> Andrew.

If you see this as approved normal behaviour within your family / group / job CLF - fine.
I have been educated differently.

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