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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #58072 > unrolled thread
| Started by | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-04-25 01:15 -0700 |
| Last post | 2017-05-04 17:15 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 35 — 11 participants |
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microFORTH JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-25 01:15 -0700
Re: microFORTH "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-26 09:35 +1000
Re: microFORTH "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-25 14:15 -1000
Re: microFORTH lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 23:09 -0700
Re: microFORTH "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-01 11:15 +1000
Re: microFORTH David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-04-30 15:02 -0500
Re: microFORTH rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 21:13 -0400
Re: microFORTH David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-04-30 20:24 -0500
Re: microFORTH rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 21:02 -0400
Re: microFORTH Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-05-02 05:58 -0400
Re: microFORTH Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 15:13 +0200
Re: microFORTH rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 11:44 -0400
Re: microFORTH David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-05-04 16:54 -0500
Re: microFORTH "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-02 10:36 +1000
Re: microFORTH "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-01 15:20 -1000
Re: microFORTH "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-02 13:01 +1000
Re: microFORTH hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-01 20:42 -0700
Re: microFORTH hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-01 21:27 -0700
Re: microFORTH "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-02 17:05 +1000
Re: microFORTH "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-01 21:18 -1000
Re: microFORTH "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-02 16:45 +1000
Re: microFORTH JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-02 00:08 -0700
Re: microFORTH hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-02 11:36 -0700
Re: microFORTH "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-03 10:43 +1000
Re: microFORTH hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-02 19:45 -0700
Re: microFORTH Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 04:41 -0500
Re: microFORTH David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-05-04 17:03 -0500
Re: microFORTH "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-04 12:58 -1000
Re: microFORTH "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-05 12:57 +1000
Re: microFORTH David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-05-04 16:57 -0500
Re: microFORTH Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 04:11 -0500
Re: microFORTH Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 04:16 -0500
Re: microFORTH Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-05-02 05:25 -0700
Re: microFORTH "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-02 10:07 -1000
Re: microFORTH David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-05-04 17:15 -0500
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| From | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-25 01:15 -0700 |
| Subject | microFORTH |
| Message-ID | <2d438ef9-36ec-42b6-b98f-792dcc3798db@googlegroups.com> |
microFORTH documentation is available on the FORTH, INC. website. Not a new product - but many here will probably remember it. And might have a look after many years ... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Forth has been around a long time. It would be a mistake to look at any of these early systems and think they represent today’s standards-based, commercial-grade Forth products. However, there is much to learn from the work of others and Forth’s history is studded with some stunning examples of both systems and applications. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ https://www.forth.com/resources/archive-forth-systems-software/
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| From | "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-26 09:35 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <odomhc$1fp3$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #58072 |
JUERGEN wrote: > microFORTH documentation is available on the FORTH, INC. website. Not a new product - > but many here will probably remember it. And might have a look after many years ... > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Forth has been around a long time. It would be a mistake to look at any of these early > systems and think they represent today's standards-based, commercial-grade Forth > products. However, there is much to learn from the work of others and Forth's history > is studded with some stunning examples of both systems and applications. > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > https://www.forth.com/resources/archive-forth-systems-software/ Thanks for that. I never knew Fig-Forth was *that* close to microFORTH. I had assumed 0 VARIABLE <BUILDS END etc were a Fig-Forth invention.
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-25 14:15 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <8PidneLnT8Uxe2LFnZ2dnUU7-V3NnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #58161 |
On 4/25/17 1:35 PM, HAA wrote: > JUERGEN wrote: >> microFORTH documentation is available on the FORTH, INC. website. Not a new product - >> but many here will probably remember it. And might have a look after many years ... >> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Forth has been around a long time. It would be a mistake to look at any of these early >> systems and think they represent today's standards-based, commercial-grade Forth >> products. However, there is much to learn from the work of others and Forth's history >> is studded with some stunning examples of both systems and applications. >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >> https://www.forth.com/resources/archive-forth-systems-software/ > > Thanks for that. > > I never knew Fig-Forth was *that* close to microFORTH. I had assumed > 0 VARIABLE <BUILDS END etc were a Fig-Forth invention. According to Don Colburn, writing in the History of Programming Languages paper http://www.forth.com/resources/forth-programming-language/ the first figForth was written by Maj. Robert Selzer, who had used microFORTH for an AMI 6800 development system on an Army project and was privately developing a standalone editor/assembler/linker package for the 6502. Selzer wrote a 6502 Forth assembler, and used the Army’s microFORTH metacompiler to target compile the first 6502 stand-alone Forth for the Jolt single board computer. He completed the project with Bill Ragsdale, who used it in his business and then published it for FIG. Cheers, Elizabeth -- Elizabeth D. Rather FORTH, Inc. 6080 Center Drive, Suite 600 Los Angeles, CA 90045 USA
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| From | lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-25 23:09 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <79f8718a-9306-4c78-a4f7-a5e211bb9964@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58165 |
Interesting indeed! I had heard that Bill Ragsdale somehow had come in contact with Forth, but not how. The ideas behind Forth bubbled up at that time: stacks, RPN, interactive And structured programming, micro processors etc. The puzzle had begun added, but Charles Moore seems to be the predestinated inventor. And thanks for that! His concept is outstanding. As the ancient compiler concept, translating from traditional formulas to machine code, is the seed to the dominating computer science, the canonical simplicity is the good soil for an eventual future.
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| From | "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-01 11:15 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <oe62bf$qns$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #58165 |
Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > On 4/25/17 1:35 PM, HAA wrote: > > JUERGEN wrote: > >> microFORTH documentation is available on the FORTH, INC. website. Not a new product - > >> but many here will probably remember it. And might have a look after many years ... > >> > >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >> Forth has been around a long time. It would be a mistake to look at any of these > >> early systems and think they represent today's standards-based, commercial-grade > >> Forth products. However, there is much to learn from the work of others and Forth's > >> history is studded with some stunning examples of both systems and applications. > >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >> > >> > >> https://www.forth.com/resources/archive-forth-systems-software/ > > > > Thanks for that. > > > > I never knew Fig-Forth was *that* close to microFORTH. I had assumed > > 0 VARIABLE <BUILDS END etc were a Fig-Forth invention. > > According to Don Colburn, writing in the History of Programming Languages > paper http://www.forth.com/resources/forth-programming-language/ the first > figForth was written by Maj. Robert Selzer, who had used microFORTH for an > AMI 6800 development system on an Army project and was privately developing > a standalone editor/assembler/linker package for the 6502. Selzer wrote a > 6502 Forth assembler, and used the Army’s microFORTH metacompiler to target > compile the first 6502 stand-alone Forth for the Jolt single board computer. > He completed the project with Bill Ragsdale, who used it in his business > and then published it for FIG. > > Cheers, > Elizabeth A closer look at microFORTH reveals it was also quite different from Forth we know today. There was no AGAIN or REPEAT. UNTIL was called END. Backslash '\' was COMPILE. WHILE worked like REPEAT but resolved a preceding IF/ELSE. FILL had no resemblance to today's word. In comparison Fig-Forth, which came out not long after, looks relatively modern. So while Fig-Forth's origin may have been microFORTH, its influences appear to have extended well beyond.
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| From | David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-30 15:02 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <a_WdnQAWBNxR35vEnZ2dnUU7-WXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #58072 |
On 04/25/2017 03:15 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
> microFORTH documentation is available on the FORTH, INC. website. Not
> a new product - but many here will probably remember it. And might
> have a look after many years ...
>
I don't know how useful it is, unless you want examples of bugs.
It starts off with the definition of LOAD:
: LOAD BLK C@ <R IN @ <R 0 IN ! 8* OFFSET @ + F9F DROP
BLK ! INTERPRET R> IN ! R> BLK C! ;
The value in BLK is saved and restored using C@ and C! yet it has to
have a larger range than that and the new value is set using !.
Plus most of the code is missing.
--
David W. Schultz
http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz
"Life without stock is barely worth living..." - Anthony Bourdain
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-30 21:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <oe61u1$j53$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58419 |
On 4/30/2017 4:02 PM, David Schultz wrote: > On 04/25/2017 03:15 AM, JUERGEN wrote: >> microFORTH documentation is available on the FORTH, INC. website. Not >> a new product - but many here will probably remember it. And might >> have a look after many years ... >> > > I don't know how useful it is, unless you want examples of bugs. > > It starts off with the definition of LOAD: > > : LOAD BLK C@ <R IN @ <R 0 IN ! 8* OFFSET @ + F9F DROP > BLK ! INTERPRET R> IN ! R> BLK C! ; > > The value in BLK is saved and restored using C@ and C! yet it has to > have a larger range than that and the new value is set using !. > > Plus most of the code is missing. What is <R ? I can't find that word in win32forth. -- Rick C
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| From | David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-30 20:24 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <yISdnSPzhNKrE5vEnZ2dnUU7-S-dnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #58425 |
On 04/30/2017 08:13 PM, rickman wrote: > What is <R ? I can't find that word in win32forth. > >R -- David W. Schultz http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz "Life without stock is barely worth living..." - Anthony Bourdain
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-01 21:02 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <oe8llm$n9s$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58428 |
On 4/30/2017 9:24 PM, David Schultz wrote:
> On 04/30/2017 08:13 PM, rickman wrote:
>> What is <R ? I can't find that word in win32forth.
>>
>
> R
see R
^
Error(-13): R is undefined
--
Rick C
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| From | Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-02 05:58 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <20170502055817.65556ef7@_> |
| In reply to | #58459 |
On Mon, 1 May 2017 21:02:44 -0400 rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: > On 4/30/2017 9:24 PM, David Schultz wrote: > > On 04/30/2017 08:13 PM, rickman wrote: > >> What is <R ? I can't find that word in win32forth. > >> > > > > R > > see R > ^ > Error(-13): R is undefined > If you were joking, I didn't find that funny at all. If you were serious, it's time to get a real newsreader. Rod Pemberton -- "Well, many people are really f---ing stupid too. Should we just adopt all their standards?" - George Carlin
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| From | Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-02 15:13 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1eibgn576yzbd.1gvbu4cp1ffv9$.dlg@40tude.net> |
| In reply to | #58459 |
Op Mon, 1 May 2017 21:02:44 -0400 schreef rickman: > On 4/30/2017 9:24 PM, David Schultz wrote: >> On 04/30/2017 08:13 PM, rickman wrote: >>> What is <R ? I can't find that word in win32forth. >>> >> >> R > > see R > ^ > Error(-13): R is undefined <R is a very old version of >R R is an old version of R@ groet Coos
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-02 11:44 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <oea9a7$4gj$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58491 |
On 5/2/2017 9:13 AM, Coos Haak wrote: > Op Mon, 1 May 2017 21:02:44 -0400 schreef rickman: > >> On 4/30/2017 9:24 PM, David Schultz wrote: >>> On 04/30/2017 08:13 PM, rickman wrote: >>>> What is <R ? I can't find that word in win32forth. >>>> >>> >>> R >> >> see R >> ^ >> Error(-13): R is undefined > > <R is a very old version of >R > R is an old version of R@ Thanks. Seems David typed >R at the beginning of a line which my newsreader saw as a quoted line. There are many issues when trying to communicate with Forth code in the message. It can really mess up punctuation and vice versa. -- Rick C
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| From | David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 16:54 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ZPSdnfR447mJPpbEnZ2dnUU7-T3NnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #58506 |
On 05/02/2017 10:44 AM, rickman wrote: > Thanks. Seems David typed >R at the beginning of a line which my > newsreader saw as a quoted line. There are many issues when trying to > communicate with Forth code in the message. It can really mess up > punctuation and vice versa. > Sorry about that. I forget that these modern newreaders do things to format code for presentation. I like being able to copy things to folders in Thunderbird but I kind of miss trn. I also apologize for the late response. Earthlink foobared their Usenet access on Monday (outsourced to GigaNews) and restored it today. -- David W. Schultz http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz "Life without stock is barely worth living..." - Anthony Bourdain
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| From | "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-02 10:36 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <oe8kb5$uam$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #58419 |
David Schultz wrote: > On 04/25/2017 03:15 AM, JUERGEN wrote: > > microFORTH documentation is available on the FORTH, INC. website. Not > > a new product - but many here will probably remember it. And might > > have a look after many years ... > > > > I don't know how useful it is, unless you want examples of bugs. > > It starts off with the definition of LOAD: > > : LOAD BLK C@ <R IN @ <R 0 IN ! 8* OFFSET @ + F9F DROP > BLK ! INTERPRET R> IN ! R> BLK C! ; > > The value in BLK is saved and restored using C@ and C! yet it has to > have a larger range than that and the new value is set using !. > > Plus most of the code is missing. It seems a little too obvious to be a bug - besides which it would only limit the range of screens on which the word LOAD could appear. I would reserve judgement until I saw the entire code. I assume the distribution disk contained a boot image representing the forth kernel which then loads screen 3.
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-01 15:20 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <qcmdncwmT_l6Q5rEnZ2dnUU7-I_NnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #58458 |
On 5/1/17 2:36 PM, HAA wrote: > David Schultz wrote: >> On 04/25/2017 03:15 AM, JUERGEN wrote: >>> microFORTH documentation is available on the FORTH, INC. website. Not >>> a new product - but many here will probably remember it. And might >>> have a look after many years ... >>> >> >> I don't know how useful it is, unless you want examples of bugs. >> >> It starts off with the definition of LOAD: >> >> : LOAD BLK C@ <R IN @ <R 0 IN ! 8* OFFSET @ + F9F DROP >> BLK ! INTERPRET R> IN ! R> BLK C! ; >> >> The value in BLK is saved and restored using C@ and C! yet it has to >> have a larger range than that and the new value is set using !. Actually, this is for the 1802, which had a development system using 250K floppies! This is 1978, folks. And BLK is a user variable, so it had to be 16 bits. That ! is pretty tacky, but it wouldn't cause a failure. Obviously the "endianness" worked ok. >> Plus most of the code is missing. Um, no, actually, this is all of it, including the assembler, compiler, text editor, source printing utility, metacompiler, and code for the kernel. We wrote a bunch of completed applications with it. > It seems a little too obvious to be a bug - besides which it would only > limit the range of screens on which the word LOAD could appear. > I would reserve judgement until I saw the entire code. I assume the > distribution disk contained a boot image representing the forth kernel > which then loads screen 3. Yes, that's correct. The bootstrap was in 0 and the precompiled kernel is in 1 and 2. Cheers, Elizabeth -- Elizabeth D. Rather FORTH, Inc. 6080 Center Drive, Suite 600 Los Angeles, CA 90045 USA
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| From | "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-02 13:01 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <oe8sr5$182s$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #58460 |
Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > On 5/1/17 2:36 PM, HAA wrote: > > David Schultz wrote: > >> On 04/25/2017 03:15 AM, JUERGEN wrote: > >>> microFORTH documentation is available on the FORTH, INC. website. Not > >>> a new product - but many here will probably remember it. And might > >>> have a look after many years ... > >>> > >> > >> I don't know how useful it is, unless you want examples of bugs. > >> > >> It starts off with the definition of LOAD: > >> > >> : LOAD BLK C@ <R IN @ <R 0 IN ! 8* OFFSET @ + F9F DROP > >> BLK ! INTERPRET R> IN ! R> BLK C! ; > >> > >> The value in BLK is saved and restored using C@ and C! yet it has to > >> have a larger range than that and the new value is set using !. > > Actually, this is for the 1802, which had a development system using > 250K floppies! This is 1978, folks. And BLK is a user variable, so it > had to be 16 bits. That ! is pretty tacky, but it wouldn't cause a > failure. Obviously the "endianness" worked ok. 'blocks' were 128 bytes. While any screen on the disk could be LOADed thanks to ! , the C@ C! would limit use of the word "LOAD" to screens 1-31 by my calculation. Not a big deal for floppy size storage. > > >> Plus most of the code is missing. > > Um, no, actually, this is all of it, including the assembler, compiler, > text editor, source printing utility, metacompiler, and code for the > kernel. We wrote a bunch of completed applications with it. There does appear to be some source that's missing - INTERPRET, WORD, BLOCK etc and parts of the run-time e.g. WHILE. > > > It seems a little too obvious to be a bug - besides which it would only > > limit the range of screens on which the word LOAD could appear. > > I would reserve judgement until I saw the entire code. I assume the > > distribution disk contained a boot image representing the forth kernel > > which then loads screen 3. > > Yes, that's correct. The bootstrap was in 0 and the precompiled kernel > is in 1 and 2. > > Cheers, > Elizabeth Perhaps someone who still has disks can dump the image. I notice there's been a revival of interest in 1802 Forths e.g. CamelForth and others. http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/figforth_1802.html
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| From | hughaguilar96@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-01 20:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <70c60dc0-59d5-4bad-846f-8347bd0e353a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58464 |
On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 8:02:00 PM UTC-7, HAA wrote: > Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > > On 5/1/17 2:36 PM, HAA wrote: > > > David Schultz wrote: > > >> On 04/25/2017 03:15 AM, JUERGEN wrote: > > >>> microFORTH documentation is available on the FORTH, INC. website. Not > > >>> a new product - but many here will probably remember it. And might > > >>> have a look after many years ... > > >>> > > >> > > >> I don't know how useful it is, unless you want examples of bugs. > > >> > > >> It starts off with the definition of LOAD: > > >> > > >> : LOAD BLK C@ <R IN @ <R 0 IN ! 8* OFFSET @ + F9F DROP > > >> BLK ! INTERPRET R> IN ! R> BLK C! ; > > >> > > >> The value in BLK is saved and restored using C@ and C! yet it has to > > >> have a larger range than that and the new value is set using !. > > > > Actually, this is for the 1802, which had a development system using > > 250K floppies! This is 1978, folks. And BLK is a user variable, so it > > had to be 16 bits. That ! is pretty tacky, but it wouldn't cause a > > failure. Obviously the "endianness" worked ok. > > 'blocks' were 128 bytes. While any screen on the disk could be LOADed > thanks to ! , the C@ C! would limit use of the word "LOAD" to screens 1-31 > by my calculation. Not a big deal for floppy size storage. It was a bug --- using C@ C! sometimes and @ ! other times --- that is definitely a bug! It is irrelevant if this happened to work because the range was small and the machine was little-endian -- it is never a good idea to try to explain away a bug as a feature --- it is best to just admit that it is a bug.
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| From | hughaguilar96@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-01 21:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <5b96ac48-2fe8-4ca6-8efa-f38b1228f6a9@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58466 |
On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 8:42:34 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote: > On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 8:02:00 PM UTC-7, HAA wrote: > > Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > > > On 5/1/17 2:36 PM, HAA wrote: > > > > David Schultz wrote: > > > >> On 04/25/2017 03:15 AM, JUERGEN wrote: > > > >>> microFORTH documentation is available on the FORTH, INC. website. Not > > > >>> a new product - but many here will probably remember it. And might > > > >>> have a look after many years ... > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> I don't know how useful it is, unless you want examples of bugs. > > > >> > > > >> It starts off with the definition of LOAD: > > > >> > > > >> : LOAD BLK C@ <R IN @ <R 0 IN ! 8* OFFSET @ + F9F DROP > > > >> BLK ! INTERPRET R> IN ! R> BLK C! ; > > > >> > > > >> The value in BLK is saved and restored using C@ and C! yet it has to > > > >> have a larger range than that and the new value is set using !. > > > > > > Actually, this is for the 1802, which had a development system using > > > 250K floppies! This is 1978, folks. And BLK is a user variable, so it > > > had to be 16 bits. That ! is pretty tacky, but it wouldn't cause a > > > failure. Obviously the "endianness" worked ok. > > > > 'blocks' were 128 bytes. While any screen on the disk could be LOADed > > thanks to ! , the C@ C! would limit use of the word "LOAD" to screens 1-31 > > by my calculation. Not a big deal for floppy size storage. > > It was a bug --- using C@ C! sometimes and @ ! other times --- that is definitely a bug! > > It is irrelevant if this happened to work because the range was small and the machine was little-endian -- it is never a good idea to try to explain away a bug as a feature --- it is best to just admit that it is a bug. Note that I'm not criticizing Charles Moore for having a bug in his MicroForth --- bugs happen, and I'm sure he would have fixed it right away if he had noticed it --- he presumably did fix it in PolyForth, which was the next Forth system that he wrote. I'm saying that claiming that a bug isn't a bug is a bad idea --- this is why all Forth Inc. software after 1982 was bug-ridden --- nobody wanted to fix bugs, but instead they claimed that they didn't have bugs, and Elizabeth Rather was okay with that.
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| From | "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-02 17:05 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <oe9b4l$1org$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #58467 |
hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote: > ... > Note that I'm not criticizing Charles Moore for having a bug in his MicroForth --- bugs > happen, and I'm sure he would have fixed it right away if he had noticed it --- he > presumably did fix it in PolyForth, which was the next Forth system that he wrote. It turns out it was 'a feature not a bug'. A confusing one all the same and perhaps more trouble than worth. I recall PolyForth using the same (user?) variable for two mutually exclusive purposes. That at least was clean and simple.
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-01 21:18 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <ftudnQiFZ6NKr5XEnZ2dnUU7-f3NnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #58470 |
On 5/1/17 9:05 PM, HAA wrote: > hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote: >> ... >> Note that I'm not criticizing Charles Moore for having a bug in his MicroForth --- bugs >> happen, and I'm sure he would have fixed it right away if he had noticed it --- he >> presumably did fix it in PolyForth, which was the next Forth system that he wrote. > > It turns out it was 'a feature not a bug'. A confusing one all the same and perhaps > more trouble than worth. I recall PolyForth using the same (user?) variable for two > mutually exclusive purposes. That at least was clean and simple. microForth was mostly written by Dean Sanderson. polyFORTH was a team effort, including Chuck, Dean, Greg Bailey, and a few others. Cheers, Elizabeth -- Elizabeth D. Rather FORTH, Inc. 6080 Center Drive, Suite 600 Los Angeles, CA 90045 USA
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