Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.lang.forth > #57698 > unrolled thread

Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started

Started byJUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
First post2017-04-21 00:49 -0700
Last post2017-04-26 01:38 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 195 — 20 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth


Contents

  Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-21 00:49 -0700
    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-21 01:17 -0700
      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-21 01:47 -0700
    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-21 18:55 -0400
      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Clive Arthur <cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2017-04-22 19:48 +0100
        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-22 14:50 -0500
          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 00:23 -0400
            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-23 11:13 -0500
              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 16:14 -0400
                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-23 19:34 -0500
                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 21:52 -0400
                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-23 21:59 -0500
                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 02:20 -0400
                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 04:04 -0700
                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 13:40 -0400
                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 14:41 -0700
                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 18:22 -0400
                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 15:28 -0700
                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 18:44 -0400
                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 19:34 -0400
                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 16:41 -0700
                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 20:36 -0400
                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 04:44 -0700
                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 12:41 -0400
                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 10:03 -0700
                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-24 12:20 -0500
                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 14:12 -0400
                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-24 15:13 -0500
                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 16:59 -0400
                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 14:35 -0700
                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-24 17:19 -0500
                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 15:36 -0700
                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 01:26 -0700
                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 11:21 -0500
                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 09:50 -0700
                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 12:37 -0500
                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 14:11 -0400
                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 13:51 -0500
                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 15:14 -0400
                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 14:15 -0400
                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 11:34 -0700
                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 11:38 -0700
                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 11:39 -0700
                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 14:00 -0500
                                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 15:15 -0400
                                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 12:27 -0700
                                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 16:04 -0400
                                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 13:36 -0700
                                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 17:03 -0400
                                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 12:42 -0700
                                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 12:55 -0700
                                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 15:16 -0500
                                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 14:22 -0700
                                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 15:51 -0700
                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 13:27 -0400
                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 13:19 -0500
                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 11:38 -0700
                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 13:59 -0500
                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 12:36 -0700
                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 14:49 -0400
                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 14:29 -0500
                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 16:30 -0400
                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 15:57 -0500
                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 17:11 -0400
                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 14:12 -0700
                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 17:38 -0400
                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 16:41 -0500
                                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 15:11 -0700
                                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 17:32 -0500
                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 03:33 -0700
                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 11:33 -0400
                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 14:05 -0700
                                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 17:24 -0400
                                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 14:51 -0700
                                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 18:29 -0400
                                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 16:18 -0700
                                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 21:07 -0400
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 01:52 -0700
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 02:10 -0700
                                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 02:22 -0700
                                                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 11:10 -0400
                                                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 11:25 -0400
                                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 11:08 -0400
                                                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-27 16:14 +0100
                                                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-27 16:17 +0100
                                                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 11:46 -0400
                                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-27 14:07 -0700
                                                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 17:58 -0400
                                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-26 20:34 -0700
                                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 01:07 -0400
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-27 21:21 -0700
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-28 08:54 +0000
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-28 10:46 +0100
                                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-27 10:46 +0100
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-27 12:05 +0200
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 11:50 -0400
                                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-28 11:23 +0200
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started john <anon@example.com> - 2017-04-27 11:43 +0100
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 11:57 -0400
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 11:21 -0400
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 11:58 -0400
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-28 07:53 -0500
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-28 22:31 +0100
                                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 20:14 -0400
                                                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-30 16:08 +0100
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-29 13:48 +0000
                                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 10:45 -0400
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-27 15:49 +0000
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-29 00:27 +0100
                                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 20:28 -0400
                                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-29 14:15 +0000
                                                                Stack processor address regs .    was Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-05-01 13:45 +0100
                                                                  Re: Stack processor address regs .    was Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-02 13:15 +0000
                                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2017-04-28 18:20 -0700
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 13:00 +0200
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-29 11:47 +0000
                                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 15:02 +0200
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2017-04-30 18:32 -0700
                                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-26 20:40 -0700
                                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 01:21 -0400
                                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-26 21:14 -0700
                                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 02:17 -0700
                                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 05:05 -0700
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started john <anon@example.com> - 2017-04-27 13:35 +0100
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 05:42 -0700
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-27 14:00 +0100
                                                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 06:04 -0700
                                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-27 15:31 +0100
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 12:26 -0400
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 08:04 -0700
                                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started john <anon@example.com> - 2017-04-27 10:30 +0100
                                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 12:32 -0400
                                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started john <anon@example.com> - 2017-04-28 12:01 +0100
                                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-26 21:34 -0500
                                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 01:26 -0400
                                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-27 21:25 -0700
                                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 02:50 -0400
                                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 00:23 -0700
                                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-28 07:46 +0000
                                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 02:25 -0700
                                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 05:35 -0400
                                                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-04-28 14:55 -0400
                                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 13:58 -0700
                                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-26 04:11 -0500
                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-25 19:54 +0100
                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 14:32 -0500
                                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-25 23:25 +0100
                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 14:40 -0500
            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-23 14:27 -0700
              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 20:35 -0400
                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-23 19:09 -0700
            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Clive Arthur <cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2017-04-25 15:33 +0100
              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-04-25 13:20 -0400
                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 14:00 -0400
                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-04-26 14:27 -0400
              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 13:58 -0400
                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-25 20:15 +0200
                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 15:07 -0400
                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-25 21:37 +0200
                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-26 14:28 +0000
                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 12:17 -0400
                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Clive Arthur <cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2017-04-26 18:48 +0100
                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-26 21:15 +0200
                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-25 18:39 -0700
                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 00:25 -0400
                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-26 09:58 +0200
                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 17:43 -0400
          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 13:10 -0700
            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 16:42 -0400
              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 16:06 -0500
                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 14:25 -0700
                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 17:52 -0400
        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 00:18 -0400
    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-22 13:28 -0700
      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-23 05:06 -0700
        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 06:38 -0700
          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-23 11:24 -0700
            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 12:17 -0700
              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-23 23:43 -0700
                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 04:16 -0700
                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-24 06:18 -0700
                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 14:28 -0700
                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-24 17:00 -0500
                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 15:10 -0700
                          Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-24 17:43 -0500
                            Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 16:40 -0700
                              Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-24 21:16 -0500
                                Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 09:42 -0700
                                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-25 12:22 -0500
                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 14:28 -0400
                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 15:03 -0700
                  Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 15:39 -0700
                    Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 20:44 -0400
                      Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-25 22:25 -0700
                        Re: Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 01:38 -0400

Page 1 of 10  [1] 2 3 … 10  Next page →


#57698 — Ting's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started

FromJUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date2017-04-21 00:49 -0700
SubjectTing's EP32 32 Bit Processor IP with eForth eBook is available now and the Project page started
Message-ID<d9685ded-dac2-4646-8549-e56eb0d921d4@googlegroups.com>
see https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071D3XMPS  and https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ep32:start  The core is running eForth on my desk in a low cost Lattice DevBoard and there has been an ASIC implementation in the past already as google told me

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]


#57700

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2017-04-21 01:17 -0700
Message-ID<87k26ecgyf.fsf@nightsong.com>
In reply to#57698
JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> see https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071D3XMPS and
> https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ep32:start The core is
> running eForth on my desk in a low cost Lattice DevBoard and there has
> been an ASIC implementation in the past already as google told me

Nice, a real ASIC?!  I hadn't heard that before.  Is there more info
around?

Btw you can now get the BBC MicroBit at adafruit.com for about $16 USD
iirc.  Sparkfun.com advertises them too, but they're not in stock there
yet.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57702

FromJUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date2017-04-21 01:47 -0700
Message-ID<391e0813-13d6-43c5-8316-d2393d2b01c3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#57700
On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 9:17:48 AM UTC+1, Paul Rubin wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> > see https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071D3XMPS and
> > https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ep32:start The core is
> > running eForth on my desk in a low cost Lattice DevBoard and there has
> > been an ASIC implementation in the past already as google told me
> 
> Nice, a real ASIC?!  I hadn't heard that before.  Is there more info
> around?
> 
> Btw you can now get the BBC MicroBit at adafruit.com for about $16 USD
> iirc.  Sparkfun.com advertises them too, but they're not in stock there
> yet.

The link to one article I found regarding EP32 is on the project page further up and if you google EP 32 RISC Core you find more.

Regarding Microbit, we did a Project Page for the Mecrisp installation at https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/en:projects:microbit:start  
and an interesting eBook and print about MicroBit (not Forth) but complementing well, you can find at https://www.amazon.co.uk/BBC-Micro-Tests-Tricks-Secrets/dp/1541200721/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8  I am working on Burkhard to tackle Forth as well ...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57756

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-21 18:55 -0400
Message-ID<ode2ej$80l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57698
On 4/21/2017 3:49 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
> see https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071D3XMPS  and https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ep32:start  The core is running eForth on my desk in a low cost Lattice DevBoard and there has been an ASIC implementation in the past already as google told me

Does this processor have any particular purpose or advantage over other 
stack processors?

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57837

FromClive Arthur <cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk>
Date2017-04-22 19:48 +0100
Message-ID<odg8br$akh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57756
On 21/04/2017 23:55, rickman wrote:
> On 4/21/2017 3:49 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
>> see https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071D3XMPS  and
>> https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ep32:start  The core is
>> running eForth on my desk in a low cost Lattice DevBoard and there has
>> been an ASIC implementation in the past already as google told me
>
> Does this processor have any particular purpose or advantage over other
> stack processors?
>
It seems it's small, but with a limited instruction set, so some simple 
Forth words may take several clock cycles.  For example, OR is made with 
com pushr com popr and com, which I guess would be

: or
     not >r not r> and not
;

Looks a bit tedious, but maybe if you're pushed for space and speed 
isn't everything...

Cheers
-- 
Clive

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57842

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-04-22 14:50 -0500
Message-ID<odgc12$m92$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57837
On 4/22/2017 1:48 PM, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 21/04/2017 23:55, rickman wrote:
>> On 4/21/2017 3:49 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
>>> see https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071D3XMPS  and
>>> https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ep32:start  The core is
>>> running eForth on my desk in a low cost Lattice DevBoard and there has
>>> been an ASIC implementation in the past already as google told me
>>
>> Does this processor have any particular purpose or advantage over other
>> stack processors?
>>
> It seems it's small, but with a limited instruction set, so some simple 
> Forth words may take several clock cycles.  For example, OR is made with 
> com pushr com popr and com, which I guess would be
> 
> : or
>      not >r not r> and not
> ;
> 
> Looks a bit tedious, but maybe if you're pushed for space and speed 
> isn't everything...
> 
> Cheers
The designer chose to use 5 bits for the instructions but he made 
provisions for 6 bits but of course changes are needed to be made to 
implement that, it would allow for 64 primitives instead of 32. Still 
the most often used words are primitives that execute in one clock, the 
"or" happens to be one of instructions left out because the limit with 5 
bits.

I intend to make the instruction word 6 bits and add extra primitives, 
there is plenty of space in the FPGA left, All the available RAM is not 
being used either and that is another change I intend to make when I 
finish my current software project.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57885

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-23 00:23 -0400
Message-ID<odha1o$4e1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57842
On 4/22/2017 3:50 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 4/22/2017 1:48 PM, Clive Arthur wrote:
>> On 21/04/2017 23:55, rickman wrote:
>>> On 4/21/2017 3:49 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
>>>> see https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071D3XMPS  and
>>>> https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ep32:start  The core is
>>>> running eForth on my desk in a low cost Lattice DevBoard and there has
>>>> been an ASIC implementation in the past already as google told me
>>>
>>> Does this processor have any particular purpose or advantage over other
>>> stack processors?
>>>
>> It seems it's small, but with a limited instruction set, so some
>> simple Forth words may take several clock cycles.  For example, OR is
>> made with com pushr com popr and com, which I guess would be
>>
>> : or
>>      not >r not r> and not
>> ;
>>
>> Looks a bit tedious, but maybe if you're pushed for space and speed
>> isn't everything...
>>
>> Cheers
> The designer chose to use 5 bits for the instructions but he made
> provisions for 6 bits but of course changes are needed to be made to
> implement that, it would allow for 64 primitives instead of 32. Still
> the most often used words are primitives that execute in one clock, the
> "or" happens to be one of instructions left out because the limit with 5
> bits.
>
> I intend to make the instruction word 6 bits and add extra primitives,
> there is plenty of space in the FPGA left, All the available RAM is not
> being used either and that is another change I intend to make when I
> finish my current software project.

I don't think there is a lot of value in extending the instruction set. 
If you look at Koopman's information on instruction set utilization you 
will find a small number of instructions will do a good job of 
optimizing Forth implementations.  Things like using AND to implement OR 
will have very little impact on most programs just because the 
instruction is used so infrequently.

Usually instruction sets are extended because the designer has a 
emotional objection to leaving an instruction out.

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57911

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-04-23 11:13 -0500
Message-ID<odijm0$d1d$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57885
On 4/22/2017 11:23 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 4/22/2017 3:50 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>> On 4/22/2017 1:48 PM, Clive Arthur wrote:
>>> On 21/04/2017 23:55, rickman wrote:
>>>> On 4/21/2017 3:49 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
>>>>> see https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071D3XMPS  and
>>>>> https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ep32:start  The core is
>>>>> running eForth on my desk in a low cost Lattice DevBoard and there has
>>>>> been an ASIC implementation in the past already as google told me
>>>>
>>>> Does this processor have any particular purpose or advantage over other
>>>> stack processors?
>>>>
>>> It seems it's small, but with a limited instruction set, so some
>>> simple Forth words may take several clock cycles.  For example, OR is
>>> made with com pushr com popr and com, which I guess would be
>>>
>>> : or
>>>      not >r not r> and not
>>> ;
>>>
>>> Looks a bit tedious, but maybe if you're pushed for space and speed
>>> isn't everything...
>>>
>>> Cheers
>> The designer chose to use 5 bits for the instructions but he made
>> provisions for 6 bits but of course changes are needed to be made to
>> implement that, it would allow for 64 primitives instead of 32. Still
>> the most often used words are primitives that execute in one clock, the
>> "or" happens to be one of instructions left out because the limit with 5
>> bits.
>>
>> I intend to make the instruction word 6 bits and add extra primitives,
>> there is plenty of space in the FPGA left, All the available RAM is not
>> being used either and that is another change I intend to make when I
>> finish my current software project.
> 
> I don't think there is a lot of value in extending the instruction set. 
> If you look at Koopman's information on instruction set utilization you 
> will find a small number of instructions will do a good job of 
> optimizing Forth implementations.  Things like using AND to implement OR 
> will have very little impact on most programs just because the 
> instruction is used so infrequently.
> 
> Usually instruction sets are extended because the designer has a 
> emotional objection to leaving an instruction out.
> 
Reducing instructions just to achieve a certain limit is not right also 
for the device use as a general purpose CPU. This device skips some of 
the instructions selected by Koopman and Ting in favor of other 
instructions that are specialized.

In this case the instruction set does not have all the instructions 
desired by the author of the book that includes the "or" instruction in 
the minimum set of instructions. Although he discusses that processor at 
length he did not design it, it was done at NASA and they might have a 
different set of requirements such as fitting in a small ASIC device, 
also they added multiply and divide primitives, which could be very 
useful in a CPU in a spacecraft. Actually that is useful everywhere but 
not often included.

The design is such so that possibly two on them can fit on a Brevia 
FPGA, maybe as things get dicey as the FPGA starts getting close to 
full. On my Brevia FPGA one CPU used 28% of the logic so two of them is 
quite possible, but RAM will be rather limited.

This CPU works well as is, my purpose in expanding the device may not 
agree with ours, mine is to use it as a learning project, rather than 
start from scratch with no experience. I would add new instructions to 
the existing device such as a "or" instruction and a small amount of 
other instructions and features. Features that I think about are adding 
an additional  stack, adding a Index register, and count register for 
handling block moves or searches. Not because it needs the extra 
hardware but because I want to learn how to do it.

The J1 CPU is a much simpler CPU so I'm not decided if to experiment 
with the ep32 or the J1. The J1 CPU has one bit in its instruction 
format left undefined it might come in handy to add extra features.
-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57919

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-23 16:14 -0400
Message-ID<odj1os$ns$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57911
On 4/23/2017 12:13 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 4/22/2017 11:23 PM, rickman wrote:
>> On 4/22/2017 3:50 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>> On 4/22/2017 1:48 PM, Clive Arthur wrote:
>>>> On 21/04/2017 23:55, rickman wrote:
>>>>> On 4/21/2017 3:49 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
>>>>>> see https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071D3XMPS  and
>>>>>> https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ep32:start  The core is
>>>>>> running eForth on my desk in a low cost Lattice DevBoard and there
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> been an ASIC implementation in the past already as google told me
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this processor have any particular purpose or advantage over
>>>>> other
>>>>> stack processors?
>>>>>
>>>> It seems it's small, but with a limited instruction set, so some
>>>> simple Forth words may take several clock cycles.  For example, OR is
>>>> made with com pushr com popr and com, which I guess would be
>>>>
>>>> : or
>>>>      not >r not r> and not
>>>> ;
>>>>
>>>> Looks a bit tedious, but maybe if you're pushed for space and speed
>>>> isn't everything...
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>> The designer chose to use 5 bits for the instructions but he made
>>> provisions for 6 bits but of course changes are needed to be made to
>>> implement that, it would allow for 64 primitives instead of 32. Still
>>> the most often used words are primitives that execute in one clock, the
>>> "or" happens to be one of instructions left out because the limit with 5
>>> bits.
>>>
>>> I intend to make the instruction word 6 bits and add extra primitives,
>>> there is plenty of space in the FPGA left, All the available RAM is not
>>> being used either and that is another change I intend to make when I
>>> finish my current software project.
>>
>> I don't think there is a lot of value in extending the instruction
>> set. If you look at Koopman's information on instruction set
>> utilization you will find a small number of instructions will do a
>> good job of optimizing Forth implementations.  Things like using AND
>> to implement OR will have very little impact on most programs just
>> because the instruction is used so infrequently.
>>
>> Usually instruction sets are extended because the designer has a
>> emotional objection to leaving an instruction out.
>>
> Reducing instructions just to achieve a certain limit is not right also
> for the device use as a general purpose CPU. This device skips some of
> the instructions selected by Koopman and Ting in favor of other
> instructions that are specialized.

I'm not clear on your use of Ting as an instruction set reference.  What 
reference are you citing exactly?  My understanding is that this CPU 
design was originally by Ting, but maybe I got that wrong.

I assume you are referring to Koopman's book, "Stack Computers the new 
wave"?


> In this case the instruction set does not have all the instructions
> desired by the author of the book that includes the "or" instruction in
> the minimum set of instructions. Although he discusses that processor at
> length he did not design it, it was done at NASA and they might have a
> different set of requirements such as fitting in a small ASIC device,
> also they added multiply and divide primitives, which could be very
> useful in a CPU in a spacecraft. Actually that is useful everywhere but
> not often included.

I don't see a "minimum" set of instructions in Koopman's book.  He lists 
a lengthy glossary of Forth words which are not the same as CPU 
instructions and an instruction frequency list of Forth words which does 
not have the OR word listed with even a 2% frequency in any cases.


> The design is such so that possibly two on them can fit on a Brevia
> FPGA, maybe as things get dicey as the FPGA starts getting close to
> full. On my Brevia FPGA one CPU used 28% of the logic so two of them is
> quite possible, but RAM will be rather limited.
>
> This CPU works well as is, my purpose in expanding the device may not
> agree with ours, mine is to use it as a learning project, rather than
> start from scratch with no experience. I would add new instructions to
> the existing device such as a "or" instruction and a small amount of
> other instructions and features. Features that I think about are adding
> an additional  stack, adding a Index register, and count register for
> handling block moves or searches. Not because it needs the extra
> hardware but because I want to learn how to do it.
>
> The J1 CPU is a much simpler CPU so I'm not decided if to experiment
> with the ep32 or the J1. The J1 CPU has one bit in its instruction
> format left undefined it might come in handy to add extra features.

There is no reason why you are limited to any given instruction size in 
an FPGA.  In fact, I believe the Brevia uses an FPGA with memory that is 
a multiple of 9 bits wide.  So a 16 bit instruction word leaves 2 memory 
bits unused.  Unfortunately the iCE40 line of FPGAs only have 8 bit wide 
block memory.  If I could count on having that 9th bit in all FPGAs I 
would hard code it in myself.

One tip that many CPU designs ignore, if you look at the complexity of 
the decoding circuit, instructions that use multiple clock cycles 
increase greatly that complexity.  A 5 or 6 bit instruction with no 
timing data is very easy to decode.  Add multiple clock cycles and you 
add counter bits that increase greatly the decoding logic.  This both 
consumes resources and adds timing delays.  So a CPU design that is 
totally single clock cycle is highly desirable.  That has been one of 
the more difficult goals to meet in my designs because it impacts many 
things such as the handling of interrupts and memory access.

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57934

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-04-23 19:34 -0500
Message-ID<odjh0m$eid$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57919
On 4/23/2017 3:14 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 4/23/2017 12:13 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>> On 4/22/2017 11:23 PM, rickman wrote:

> 
> I'm not clear on your use of Ting as an instruction set reference.  What 
> reference are you citing exactly?  My understanding is that this CPU 
> design was originally by Ting, but maybe I got that wrong.
> 

I read recently an article by a University that the name escapes me at 
the time that they worked at implementing the ep32 design in an ASIC, 
and that original design was done by two NASA engineers. The literature 
from Ting does not claim he invented the design but he offered an 
implementation of it for the Lattice Brevia. The University article 
mentions Ting as someone who had implemented the design in FPGA and had 
written software for it.

On the various literature by Ting on eForth he list a minimal set of 
primitives to be used in implementing eForth after consideration on his 
work and the work of Charles Moore, and Koopman to about 25 to 35 will 
be enough to implement eForth, but that is the minimal set, in some of 
his works he uses between 60 and 100 primitives depending on the desired 
results. For example in his esp8266 eForth he uses 67 primitives to make 
it more efficient.

Personal I think 35 are too ffew primitives to make for an efficient 
design, it will work but it's not optimal, more like 45 to 60 so that 
all the often used works are single clock primitives.

> I assume you are referring to Koopman's book, "Stack Computers the new 
> wave"?
> 
> 
>> In this case the instruction set does not have all the instructions
>> desired by the author of the book that includes the "or" instruction in
>> the minimum set of instructions. Although he discusses that processor at
>> length he did not design it, it was done at NASA and they might have a
>> different set of requirements such as fitting in a small ASIC device,
>> also they added multiply and divide primitives, which could be very
>> useful in a CPU in a spacecraft. Actually that is useful everywhere but
>> not often included.
> 
> I don't see a "minimum" set of instructions in Koopman's book.  He lists 
> a lengthy glossary of Forth words which are not the same as CPU 
> instructions and an instruction frequency list of Forth words which does 
> not have the OR word listed with even a 2% frequency in any cases.
> 
> 
>
> There is no reason why you are limited to any given instruction size in 
> an FPGA.  In fact, I believe the Brevia uses an FPGA with memory that is 
> a multiple of 9 bits wide.  So a 16 bit instruction word leaves 2 memory 
> bits unused.  Unfortunately the iCE40 line of FPGAs only have 8 bit wide 
> block memory.  If I could count on having that 9th bit in all FPGAs I 
> would hard code it in myself.

In the epxx designs the memory is used in multiple of 8 bits so on the 
Brevia the 9th bit is not used. Taking to ep16 design to 18 bits would 
be a nice improvement wit added primitives and a larger addressing 
range, 18 bit stacks and registers would extend the dynamic range of 
data values four fold a nice improvement. That would limit the design to 
FPGAs with 9 bit memory blocks for which there are plenty available.

> 
> One tip that many CPU designs ignore, if you look at the complexity of 
> the decoding circuit, instructions that use multiple clock cycles 
> increase greatly that complexity.  A 5 or 6 bit instruction with no 
> timing data is very easy to decode.  Add multiple clock cycles and you 
> add counter bits that increase greatly the decoding logic.  This both 
> consumes resources and adds timing delays.  So a CPU design that is 
> totally single clock cycle is highly desirable.  That has been one of 
> the more difficult goals to meet in my designs because it impacts many 
> things such as the handling of interrupts and memory access.
> 
The J1 is a nice design in that regard in that it has a ton of 
instructions some of them are actually multiple instructions in one work 
at no extra cost that run in one clock, some implementations with extra 
features use 140 lines of Verilog

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57940

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-23 21:52 -0400
Message-ID<odjljl$hio$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57934
On 4/23/2017 8:34 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 4/23/2017 3:14 PM, rickman wrote:
>> On 4/23/2017 12:13 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>> On 4/22/2017 11:23 PM, rickman wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm not clear on your use of Ting as an instruction set reference.
>> What reference are you citing exactly?  My understanding is that this
>> CPU design was originally by Ting, but maybe I got that wrong.
>>
>
> I read recently an article by a University that the name escapes me at
> the time that they worked at implementing the ep32 design in an ASIC,
> and that original design was done by two NASA engineers. The literature
> from Ting does not claim he invented the design but he offered an
> implementation of it for the Lattice Brevia. The University article
> mentions Ting as someone who had implemented the design in FPGA and had
> written software for it.
>
> On the various literature by Ting on eForth he list a minimal set of
> primitives to be used in implementing eForth after consideration on his
> work and the work of Charles Moore, and Koopman to about 25 to 35 will
> be enough to implement eForth, but that is the minimal set, in some of
> his works he uses between 60 and 100 primitives depending on the desired
> results. For example in his esp8266 eForth he uses 67 primitives to make
> it more efficient.
>
> Personal I think 35 are too ffew primitives to make for an efficient
> design, it will work but it's not optimal, more like 45 to 60 so that
> all the often used works are single clock primitives.

I don't know what you think makes for an "efficient" design and that is 
really what is important in determining an instruction set for a CPU. 
Personally I think making the implementation simpler is more useful than 
including more Forth primitives in the instruction set.  But that is the 
point, how to weight the two aspects.


>> I assume you are referring to Koopman's book, "Stack Computers the new
>> wave"?
>>
>>
>>> In this case the instruction set does not have all the instructions
>>> desired by the author of the book that includes the "or" instruction in
>>> the minimum set of instructions. Although he discusses that processor at
>>> length he did not design it, it was done at NASA and they might have a
>>> different set of requirements such as fitting in a small ASIC device,
>>> also they added multiply and divide primitives, which could be very
>>> useful in a CPU in a spacecraft. Actually that is useful everywhere but
>>> not often included.
>>
>> I don't see a "minimum" set of instructions in Koopman's book.  He
>> lists a lengthy glossary of Forth words which are not the same as CPU
>> instructions and an instruction frequency list of Forth words which
>> does not have the OR word listed with even a 2% frequency in any cases.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no reason why you are limited to any given instruction size
>> in an FPGA.  In fact, I believe the Brevia uses an FPGA with memory
>> that is a multiple of 9 bits wide.  So a 16 bit instruction word
>> leaves 2 memory bits unused.  Unfortunately the iCE40 line of FPGAs
>> only have 8 bit wide block memory.  If I could count on having that
>> 9th bit in all FPGAs I would hard code it in myself.
>
> In the epxx designs the memory is used in multiple of 8 bits so on the
> Brevia the 9th bit is not used. Taking to ep16 design to 18 bits would
> be a nice improvement wit added primitives and a larger addressing
> range, 18 bit stacks and registers would extend the dynamic range of
> data values four fold a nice improvement. That would limit the design to
> FPGAs with 9 bit memory blocks for which there are plenty available.

In an FPGA design you have the freedom to set the various details of a 
design.  While the EP32 is an 8 bit data oriented design, other designs 
can make more efficient use of the FPGA resources.


>> One tip that many CPU designs ignore, if you look at the complexity of
>> the decoding circuit, instructions that use multiple clock cycles
>> increase greatly that complexity.  A 5 or 6 bit instruction with no
>> timing data is very easy to decode.  Add multiple clock cycles and you
>> add counter bits that increase greatly the decoding logic.  This both
>> consumes resources and adds timing delays.  So a CPU design that is
>> totally single clock cycle is highly desirable.  That has been one of
>> the more difficult goals to meet in my designs because it impacts many
>> things such as the handling of interrupts and memory access.
>>
> The J1 is a nice design in that regard in that it has a ton of
> instructions some of them are actually multiple instructions in one work
> at no extra cost that run in one clock, some implementations with extra
> features use 140 lines of Verilog

All processors have multiple functional units.  How these units are used 
in instructions and how they map to Forth instructions vary.  I like to 
try to keep the multiple functional units busy when possible, but that 
requires a less encoded instruction format using more memory for each 
instruction.  The trick is to make it pay by getting more done in each 
instruction.

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57947

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-04-23 21:59 -0500
Message-ID<odjpg9$qlo$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57940
On 4/23/2017 8:52 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 4/23/2017 8:34 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> 
> I don't know what you think makes for an "efficient" design and that is 
> really what is important in determining an instruction set for a CPU. 
> Personally I think making the implementation simpler is more useful than 
> including more Forth primitives in the instruction set.  But that is the 
> point, how to weight the two aspects.
> 
> 

Some of these CPUs have very limited amount of RAM, part of being 
efficient is not having to do multiple instructions to do something 
simple, yes it cost more logic, but the device cost the same even if you 
use little logic in it, so it might be worthwhile to add 
multi-instructions to one primitive when possible, the ep32 uses 28% of 
the LUTS on a Brevia 2, but if it used 50% but saved on RAM usage you 
end up ahead.


> In an FPGA design you have the freedom to set the various details of a 
> design.  While the EP32 is an 8 bit data oriented design, other designs 
> can make more efficient use of the FPGA resources.
> 
> 
A change to use the full width of the memory blocks might be worthwhile, 
it will need more LUTS but there are plenty not in use, 36 bits gives 
you pretty good size integers. On the ep16 18 bits is a nice 
improvement, not only bigger integers but also a bigger address range, 
although I don't think that is an issue, but one thing to note is the 
Brevia 2 has 512KB of 10 ns memory available on the outside which is 
quite a bit.

>>> One tip that many CPU designs ignore, if you look at the complexity of
>>> the decoding circuit, instructions that use multiple clock cycles
>>> increase greatly that complexity.  A 5 or 6 bit instruction with no
>>> timing data is very easy to decode.  Add multiple clock cycles and you
>>> add counter bits that increase greatly the decoding logic.  This both
>>> consumes resources and adds timing delays.  So a CPU design that is
>>> totally single clock cycle is highly desirable.  That has been one of
>>> the more difficult goals to meet in my designs because it impacts many
>>> things such as the handling of interrupts and memory access.
>>>
>> The J1 is a nice design in that regard in that it has a ton of
>> instructions some of them are actually multiple instructions in one work
>> at no extra cost that run in one clock, some implementations with extra
>> features use 140 lines of Verilog
> 
> All processors have multiple functional units.  How these units are used 
> in instructions and how they map to Forth instructions vary.  I like to 
> try to keep the multiple functional units busy when possible, but that 
> requires a less encoded instruction format using more memory for each 
> instruction.  The trick is to make it pay by getting more done in each 
> instruction.
> 

The horizontal decoding of the instruction on the J1 makes it possible 
to execute multiple instructions in one clock but it uses 16 bits to the 
instruction with one of those 16 bits being unused (room for expansion 
here). Even the ep32 has room for more simultaneous execution but one 
need the full 6 bits to implement more primitives that combine multiple 
actions.

I was going to start learning VHDL but looking at some FPGA 
implementations I see that Verilog has simpler code although I gather 
that VHDL helps prevent a lot of dumb mistakes. So after I finish my 
current software project enough to start being useful I will try the J1 
in Verilog and see how that works out. Eventually an 18 bit J1 might be 
and interesting modification.
-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57963

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-24 02:20 -0400
Message-ID<odk59e$l2d$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57947
On 4/23/2017 10:59 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 4/23/2017 8:52 PM, rickman wrote:
>> On 4/23/2017 8:34 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>
>> I don't know what you think makes for an "efficient" design and that
>> is really what is important in determining an instruction set for a
>> CPU. Personally I think making the implementation simpler is more
>> useful than including more Forth primitives in the instruction set.
>> But that is the point, how to weight the two aspects.
>>
>>
>
> Some of these CPUs have very limited amount of RAM, part of being
> efficient is not having to do multiple instructions to do something
> simple, yes it cost more logic, but the device cost the same even if you
> use little logic in it, so it might be worthwhile to add
> multi-instructions to one primitive when possible, the ep32 uses 28% of
> the LUTS on a Brevia 2, but if it used 50% but saved on RAM usage you
> end up ahead.

You have a very limited view of the world.  LUT counts are not the only 
important thing in a design.

Using more bits to allow multiple instructions in one opcode uses more 
memory for each opcode.  Whether it uses more memory overall depends on 
how good a job is done providing useful opcodes and how often 
instructions can be paralleled and how well the tools encode such 
parallel instructions.

I had looked at providing three independent fields in an instruction to 
allow all three execution units in my CPU to run totally in parallel. 
But this could only be useful part of the time.  The three units are the 
data stack unit (with the data path logic), the return stack unit (with 
the memory addressing and loop counting logic) and the instruction fetch 
unit (which handles all instruction addressing, jumps, calls, 
interrupts, etc).  These units can only be usefully used in parallel 
when they can operate in parallel when operating independently.  The 
instruction fetch unit typically just fetches the next instruction or it 
can do jumps, calls and returns, but not when the return stack unit is 
doing anything else.  The return stack unit can do looping control or 
address memory, but not when it is being accessed by the data unit.  You 
get the idea.

In the end getting parallelism to be useful was hard and getting the 
tools to generate useful code would have been beyond my current skills 
other than manually using assembly language.  As a way to improve the 
throughput this might be worthwhile.  I don't see this as especially 
useful for reducing code size and in fact likely would use more memory 
for program storage.


>> In an FPGA design you have the freedom to set the various details of a
>> design.  While the EP32 is an 8 bit data oriented design, other
>> designs can make more efficient use of the FPGA resources.
>>
>>
> A change to use the full width of the memory blocks might be worthwhile,
> it will need more LUTS but there are plenty not in use, 36 bits gives
> you pretty good size integers. On the ep16 18 bits is a nice
> improvement, not only bigger integers but also a bigger address range,
> although I don't think that is an issue, but one thing to note is the
> Brevia 2 has 512KB of 10 ns memory available on the outside which is
> quite a bit.

You seem to think LUT usage is paramount.  I've never found a CPU design 
to be overly demanding on the LUT count.  More important to me is 
getting it to run fast, usually so it will run with the existing system 
clock rather than running at a slower clock.  The throughput of a small 
CPU is often not a problem although that depends entirely on the task at 
hand.  My point is if you really are counting on the speed being X, then 
if it falls a bit short you are hosed.  I much prefer to have lots of 
excess speed so it is never an issue.  Speed is a PITA to deal with if 
you are squeezed.

External memory is never required for my CPU designs other than as 
interfaces to the system.  If you need more than a few kB for program 
storage you are going to spend a lot of time writing code.  I don't have 
that much time usually.

While I find it useful to utilize memory fully when selecting 
instruction widths, I don't limit my data or address size.  If I need 19 
bit addresses I use 19 bit addresses.  My CPU design is pretty much N 
bits.  The only complication is addressing bytes.  For data paths that 
are multiples of 8 or 9 bits I use 8 or 9 bit bytes.  I haven't needed 
anything else as yet.


>>>> One tip that many CPU designs ignore, if you look at the complexity of
>>>> the decoding circuit, instructions that use multiple clock cycles
>>>> increase greatly that complexity.  A 5 or 6 bit instruction with no
>>>> timing data is very easy to decode.  Add multiple clock cycles and you
>>>> add counter bits that increase greatly the decoding logic.  This both
>>>> consumes resources and adds timing delays.  So a CPU design that is
>>>> totally single clock cycle is highly desirable.  That has been one of
>>>> the more difficult goals to meet in my designs because it impacts many
>>>> things such as the handling of interrupts and memory access.
>>>>
>>> The J1 is a nice design in that regard in that it has a ton of
>>> instructions some of them are actually multiple instructions in one work
>>> at no extra cost that run in one clock, some implementations with extra
>>> features use 140 lines of Verilog
>>
>> All processors have multiple functional units.  How these units are
>> used in instructions and how they map to Forth instructions vary.  I
>> like to try to keep the multiple functional units busy when possible,
>> but that requires a less encoded instruction format using more memory
>> for each instruction.  The trick is to make it pay by getting more
>> done in each instruction.
>>
>
> The horizontal decoding of the instruction on the J1 makes it possible
> to execute multiple instructions in one clock but it uses 16 bits to the
> instruction with one of those 16 bits being unused (room for expansion
> here). Even the ep32 has room for more simultaneous execution but one
> need the full 6 bits to implement more primitives that combine multiple
> actions.

The J1 has very limited support for multiple "instructions" in a single 
opcode.  Meanwhile it is using a full 16 bits for each instruction.  It 
does manage to have higher code density than the Xilinx MicroBlaze CPU.


> I was going to start learning VHDL but looking at some FPGA
> implementations I see that Verilog has simpler code although I gather
> that VHDL helps prevent a lot of dumb mistakes. So after I finish my
> current software project enough to start being useful I will try the J1
> in Verilog and see how that works out. Eventually an 18 bit J1 might be
> and interesting modification.

I have used Verilog but do not call myself a Verilog programmer.  I 
don't know that VHDL strong typing is such a boon to error catching.  I 
think it is a big PITA when learning, but once you get the hang of 
explicit type indication and conversions (and a few other things VHDL 
forces you to do) I believe it is more the mindset that helps to prevent 
errors.  I don't know this isn't possible in Verilog as well.

The main difference is in the test bench facility I think.  VHDL lets 
you write very good test benches while I've been told you need to use 
System Verilog to more easily write good test benches in Verilog.

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#57984

FromIlya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-24 04:04 -0700
Message-ID<56ba05b5-f6b5-46fe-9163-e12c249c02e4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#57963
> You seem to think LUT usage is paramount.  I've never found a CPU design 
> to be overly demanding on the LUT count.  

You seem to estimate this based on Lattice chips. Leading architecture now represented by Xilinx and Altera FPGAs, and LUT is combined with 2 flip-flops. Since LUT has 6 inputs, but data is usually wider, several LUTs are required before result may be stored into flip-flop. For CPU designs LUTs are consumed more agressively than flip-flops.

Dedicated resources (RAM, multipliers) are other side of project and should npt be directly compared with LUTs. Coefficient of LUT+FF pair is calculated separately by FPGA CAD and it is not so high (30% or so) for CPU designs. More flip-flops required for heavily pipelined designs, such as DSP and network processing.

> More important to me is 
> getting it to run fast, usually so it will run with the existing system 
> clock rather than running at a slower clock.  The throughput of a small 
> CPU is often not a problem although that depends entirely on the task at 
> hand.  My point is if you really are counting on the speed being X, then 
> if it falls a bit short you are hosed.  I much prefer to have lots of 
> excess speed so it is never an issue.  Speed is a PITA to deal with if 
> you are squeezed.

Speed != performance. Having CPU in the datapath means a bottleneck. With FPGA you can implement parallel processing by independent datapaths, based on DSP and/or logic cells, and it is extremely faster than read-calculate-write data by CPU.

> > I was going to start learning VHDL but looking at some FPGA
> > implementations I see that Verilog has simpler code although I gather
> > that VHDL helps prevent a lot of dumb mistakes. So after I finish my
> > current software project enough to start being useful I will try the J1
> > in Verilog and see how that works out. Eventually an 18 bit J1 might be
> > and interesting modification.
> 
> I have used Verilog but do not call myself a Verilog programmer.  I 
> don't know that VHDL strong typing is such a boon to error catching.  I 
> think it is a big PITA when learning, but once you get the hang of 
> explicit type indication and conversions (and a few other things VHDL 
> forces you to do) I believe it is more the mindset that helps to prevent 
> errors.  I don't know this isn't possible in Verilog as well.
> 
> The main difference is in the test bench facility I think.  VHDL lets 
> you write very good test benches while I've been told you need to use 
> System Verilog to more easily write good test benches in Verilog.

Self-driven system testbench is dramatically better approach. In general, you need just download memory image and provide clk stimulus. Thanks to Forth - VHDL/Verilog model of memory can be exported very easily directly from cross-compiler. After this you can observe all signals, generated by CPU running this program.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58011

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-24 13:40 -0400
Message-ID<odld3s$pta$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57984
On 4/24/2017 7:04 AM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
>> You seem to think LUT usage is paramount.  I've never found a CPU
>> design to be overly demanding on the LUT count.
>
> You seem to estimate this based on Lattice chips. Leading
> architecture now represented by Xilinx and Altera FPGAs, and LUT is
> combined with 2 flip-flops. Since LUT has 6 inputs, but data is
> usually wider, several LUTs are required before result may be stored
> into flip-flop. For CPU designs LUTs are consumed more agressively
> than flip-flops.

I have no idea what you are talking about.  I've said nothing about a 
size of LUT or how they are bungled with FFs.


> Dedicated resources (RAM, multipliers) are other side of project and
> should npt be directly compared with LUTs. Coefficient of LUT+FF pair
> is calculated separately by FPGA CAD and it is not so high (30% or
> so) for CPU designs. More flip-flops required for heavily pipelined
> designs, such as DSP and network processing.

Yes, this is all obvious.


>> More important to me is getting it to run fast, usually so it will
>> run with the existing system clock rather than running at a slower
>> clock.  The throughput of a small CPU is often not a problem
>> although that depends entirely on the task at hand.  My point is if
>> you really are counting on the speed being X, then if it falls a
>> bit short you are hosed.  I much prefer to have lots of excess
>> speed so it is never an issue.  Speed is a PITA to deal with if you
>> are squeezed.
>
> Speed != performance. Having CPU in the datapath means a bottleneck.
> With FPGA you can implement parallel processing by independent
> datapaths, based on DSP and/or logic cells, and it is extremely
> faster than read-calculate-write data by CPU.
>
>>> I was going to start learning VHDL but looking at some FPGA
>>> implementations I see that Verilog has simpler code although I
>>> gather that VHDL helps prevent a lot of dumb mistakes. So after I
>>> finish my current software project enough to start being useful I
>>> will try the J1 in Verilog and see how that works out. Eventually
>>> an 18 bit J1 might be and interesting modification.
>>
>> I have used Verilog but do not call myself a Verilog programmer.  I
>>  don't know that VHDL strong typing is such a boon to error
>> catching.  I think it is a big PITA when learning, but once you get
>> the hang of explicit type indication and conversions (and a few
>> other things VHDL forces you to do) I believe it is more the
>> mindset that helps to prevent errors.  I don't know this isn't
>> possible in Verilog as well.
>>
>> The main difference is in the test bench facility I think.  VHDL
>> lets you write very good test benches while I've been told you need
>> to use System Verilog to more easily write good test benches in
>> Verilog.
>
> Self-driven system testbench is dramatically better approach. In
> general, you need just download memory image and provide clk
> stimulus. Thanks to Forth - VHDL/Verilog model of memory can be
> exported very easily directly from cross-compiler. After this you can
> observe all signals, generated by CPU running this program.

Ting took the "functional" simulation approach and ran his 8080 design 
with a Forth program.  I wanted to illustrate the use of test benches on 
his design and constructed a simple test with just 10 instructions or 
fewer.  I found a bug in his 8080 implementation that wasn't caught in 
his functional test because it wasn't constructed to thoroughly test the 
CPU.

Testing is not just running the design.  Tests have to be constructed to 
test a design rather than just running it.

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58024

FromIlya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-24 14:41 -0700
Message-ID<5b8bbd35-0427-49ab-94aa-a10494bd47ae@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58011
понедельник, 24 апреля 2017 г., 20:40:11 UTC+3 пользователь rickman написал:
> On 4/24/2017 7:04 AM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
> >> You seem to think LUT usage is paramount.  I've never found a CPU
> >> design to be overly demanding on the LUT count.
> >
> > You seem to estimate this based on Lattice chips. Leading
> > architecture now represented by Xilinx and Altera FPGAs, and LUT is
> > combined with 2 flip-flops. Since LUT has 6 inputs, but data is
> > usually wider, several LUTs are required before result may be stored
> > into flip-flop. For CPU designs LUTs are consumed more agressively
> > than flip-flops.
> 
> I have no idea what you are talking about.  I've said nothing about a 
> size of LUT or how they are bungled with FFs.
 
Nothing good. This probably means you have no detailed understanding of FPGA 
architecture.
 
> > Dedicated resources (RAM, multipliers) are other side of project and
> > should npt be directly compared with LUTs. Coefficient of LUT+FF pair
> > is calculated separately by FPGA CAD and it is not so high (30% or
> > so) for CPU designs. More flip-flops required for heavily pipelined
> > designs, such as DSP and network processing.
> 
> Yes, this is all obvious.

Really? In this kind you should have your own observation about resources required for different types of designs.

> > Self-driven system testbench is dramatically better approach. In
> > general, you need just download memory image and provide clk
> > stimulus. Thanks to Forth - VHDL/Verilog model of memory can be
> > exported very easily directly from cross-compiler. After this you can
> > observe all signals, generated by CPU running this program.
> 
> Ting took the "functional" simulation approach and ran his 8080 design 
> with a Forth program.  I wanted to illustrate the use of test benches on 
> his design and constructed a simple test with just 10 instructions or 
> fewer.  I found a bug in his 8080 implementation that wasn't caught in 
> his functional test because it wasn't constructed to thoroughly test the 
> CPU.
> 
> Testing is not just running the design.  Tests have to be constructed to 
> test a design rather than just running it.

You missing the point completely. Construct tests whenever you want, but when I construct tests, I don't need to edit a single line in VHDL or Verilog. All tests are just programs in Forth (or Assembler), compiles by Forth cross-compiler and runs automatically by single self-driven testbench. All stimulus are comes from cross-compiler, and don't needed to be coded in VHDL.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58031

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-24 18:22 -0400
Message-ID<odltks$nat$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58024
On 4/24/2017 5:41 PM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
> понедельник, 24 апреля 2017 г., 20:40:11 UTC+3 пользователь rickman написал:
>> On 4/24/2017 7:04 AM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
>>>> You seem to think LUT usage is paramount.  I've never found a CPU
>>>> design to be overly demanding on the LUT count.
>>>
>>> You seem to estimate this based on Lattice chips. Leading
>>> architecture now represented by Xilinx and Altera FPGAs, and LUT is
>>> combined with 2 flip-flops. Since LUT has 6 inputs, but data is
>>> usually wider, several LUTs are required before result may be stored
>>> into flip-flop. For CPU designs LUTs are consumed more agressively
>>> than flip-flops.
>>
>> I have no idea what you are talking about.  I've said nothing about a
>> size of LUT or how they are bungled with FFs.
>
> Nothing good. This probably means you have no detailed understanding of FPGA
> architecture.
>
>>> Dedicated resources (RAM, multipliers) are other side of project and
>>> should npt be directly compared with LUTs. Coefficient of LUT+FF pair
>>> is calculated separately by FPGA CAD and it is not so high (30% or
>>> so) for CPU designs. More flip-flops required for heavily pipelined
>>> designs, such as DSP and network processing.
>>
>> Yes, this is all obvious.
>
> Really? In this kind you should have your own observation about resources required for different types of designs.
>
>>> Self-driven system testbench is dramatically better approach. In
>>> general, you need just download memory image and provide clk
>>> stimulus. Thanks to Forth - VHDL/Verilog model of memory can be
>>> exported very easily directly from cross-compiler. After this you can
>>> observe all signals, generated by CPU running this program.
>>
>> Ting took the "functional" simulation approach and ran his 8080 design
>> with a Forth program.  I wanted to illustrate the use of test benches on
>> his design and constructed a simple test with just 10 instructions or
>> fewer.  I found a bug in his 8080 implementation that wasn't caught in
>> his functional test because it wasn't constructed to thoroughly test the
>> CPU.
>>
>> Testing is not just running the design.  Tests have to be constructed to
>> test a design rather than just running it.
>
> You missing the point completely. Construct tests whenever you want, but when I construct tests, I don't need to edit a single line in VHDL or Verilog. All tests are just programs in Forth (or Assembler), compiles by Forth cross-compiler and runs automatically by single self-driven testbench. All stimulus are comes from cross-compiler, and don't needed to be coded in VHDL.

There must be a large language barrier.  I said nothing about editing 
your HDL code.

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58032

FromIlya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-24 15:28 -0700
Message-ID<edd7cd8e-4745-4760-84a0-8a0ac7e3498e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58031
вторник, 25 апреля 2017 г., 1:22:20 UTC+3 пользователь rickman написал:
> On 4/24/2017 5:41 PM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
> > понедельник, 24 апреля 2017 г., 20:40:11 UTC+3 пользователь rickman написал:
> >> On 4/24/2017 7:04 AM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
> >>>> You seem to think LUT usage is paramount.  I've never found a CPU
> >>>> design to be overly demanding on the LUT count.
> >>>
> >>> You seem to estimate this based on Lattice chips. Leading
> >>> architecture now represented by Xilinx and Altera FPGAs, and LUT is
> >>> combined with 2 flip-flops. Since LUT has 6 inputs, but data is
> >>> usually wider, several LUTs are required before result may be stored
> >>> into flip-flop. For CPU designs LUTs are consumed more agressively
> >>> than flip-flops.
> >>
> >> I have no idea what you are talking about.  I've said nothing about a
> >> size of LUT or how they are bungled with FFs.
> >
> > Nothing good. This probably means you have no detailed understanding of FPGA
> > architecture.
> >
> >>> Dedicated resources (RAM, multipliers) are other side of project and
> >>> should npt be directly compared with LUTs. Coefficient of LUT+FF pair
> >>> is calculated separately by FPGA CAD and it is not so high (30% or
> >>> so) for CPU designs. More flip-flops required for heavily pipelined
> >>> designs, such as DSP and network processing.
> >>
> >> Yes, this is all obvious.
> >
> > Really? In this kind you should have your own observation about resources required for different types of designs.
> >
> >>> Self-driven system testbench is dramatically better approach. In
> >>> general, you need just download memory image and provide clk
> >>> stimulus. Thanks to Forth - VHDL/Verilog model of memory can be
> >>> exported very easily directly from cross-compiler. After this you can
> >>> observe all signals, generated by CPU running this program.
> >>
> >> Ting took the "functional" simulation approach and ran his 8080 design
> >> with a Forth program.  I wanted to illustrate the use of test benches on
> >> his design and constructed a simple test with just 10 instructions or
> >> fewer.  I found a bug in his 8080 implementation that wasn't caught in
> >> his functional test because it wasn't constructed to thoroughly test the
> >> CPU.
> >>
> >> Testing is not just running the design.  Tests have to be constructed to
> >> test a design rather than just running it.
> >
> > You missing the point completely. Construct tests whenever you want, but when I construct tests, I don't need to edit a single line in VHDL or Verilog. All tests are just programs in Forth (or Assembler), compiles by Forth cross-compiler and runs automatically by single self-driven testbench. All stimulus are comes from cross-compiler, and don't needed to be coded in VHDL.
> 
> There must be a large language barrier.  I said nothing about editing 
> your HDL code.

Did you ever understood what I'm talking about? Tell me about testbenches and write an example how do you plan to test CPU with VHDL or Verilog. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58035

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-24 18:44 -0400
Message-ID<odluut$rcr$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58032
On 4/24/2017 6:28 PM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
> вторник, 25 апреля 2017 г., 1:22:20 UTC+3 пользователь rickman написал:
>> On 4/24/2017 5:41 PM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
>>> понедельник, 24 апреля 2017 г., 20:40:11 UTC+3 пользователь rickman написал:
>>>> On 4/24/2017 7:04 AM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
>>>>>> You seem to think LUT usage is paramount.  I've never found a CPU
>>>>>> design to be overly demanding on the LUT count.
>>>>>
>>>>> You seem to estimate this based on Lattice chips. Leading
>>>>> architecture now represented by Xilinx and Altera FPGAs, and LUT is
>>>>> combined with 2 flip-flops. Since LUT has 6 inputs, but data is
>>>>> usually wider, several LUTs are required before result may be stored
>>>>> into flip-flop. For CPU designs LUTs are consumed more agressively
>>>>> than flip-flops.
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea what you are talking about.  I've said nothing about a
>>>> size of LUT or how they are bungled with FFs.
>>>
>>> Nothing good. This probably means you have no detailed understanding of FPGA
>>> architecture.
>>>
>>>>> Dedicated resources (RAM, multipliers) are other side of project and
>>>>> should npt be directly compared with LUTs. Coefficient of LUT+FF pair
>>>>> is calculated separately by FPGA CAD and it is not so high (30% or
>>>>> so) for CPU designs. More flip-flops required for heavily pipelined
>>>>> designs, such as DSP and network processing.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, this is all obvious.
>>>
>>> Really? In this kind you should have your own observation about resources required for different types of designs.
>>>
>>>>> Self-driven system testbench is dramatically better approach. In
>>>>> general, you need just download memory image and provide clk
>>>>> stimulus. Thanks to Forth - VHDL/Verilog model of memory can be
>>>>> exported very easily directly from cross-compiler. After this you can
>>>>> observe all signals, generated by CPU running this program.
>>>>
>>>> Ting took the "functional" simulation approach and ran his 8080 design
>>>> with a Forth program.  I wanted to illustrate the use of test benches on
>>>> his design and constructed a simple test with just 10 instructions or
>>>> fewer.  I found a bug in his 8080 implementation that wasn't caught in
>>>> his functional test because it wasn't constructed to thoroughly test the
>>>> CPU.
>>>>
>>>> Testing is not just running the design.  Tests have to be constructed to
>>>> test a design rather than just running it.
>>>
>>> You missing the point completely. Construct tests whenever you want, but when I construct tests, I don't need to edit a single line in VHDL or Verilog. All tests are just programs in Forth (or Assembler), compiles by Forth cross-compiler and runs automatically by single self-driven testbench. All stimulus are comes from cross-compiler, and don't needed to be coded in VHDL.
>>
>> There must be a large language barrier.  I said nothing about editing
>> your HDL code.
>
> Did you ever understood what I'm talking about? Tell me about testbenches and write an example how do you plan to test CPU with VHDL or Verilog.

Provide me with the code for the interfaces.

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#58036

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-24 19:34 -0400
Message-ID<odm1rm$3mg$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58035
On 4/24/2017 6:44 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 4/24/2017 6:28 PM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
>>
>> Did you ever understood what I'm talking about? Tell me about
>> testbenches and write an example how do you plan to test CPU with VHDL
>> or Verilog.
>
> Provide me with the code for the interfaces.

Or you can view the SVFIG monthly meeting a few months ago where Ting 
presented his 8080 model and read my pages on testing it via a test 
bench.  I expect I would do something like that for nearly any processor.

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 1 of 10  [1] 2 3 … 10  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.forth


csiph-web