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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #52738 > unrolled thread

Yet another draw of rectangle

Started byhumptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com>
First post2016-11-19 13:34 -0800
Last post2017-04-11 06:41 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 159 — 26 participants

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  Yet another draw of rectangle humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-11-19 13:34 -0800
    Re: Yet another draw of rectangle "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2016-11-20 00:53 +0000
    Re: Yet another draw of rectangle "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-20 14:46 +1100
      Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-19 20:01 -0800
        Re: Yet another draw of rectangle "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-20 20:10 +1100
        Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-20 01:18 -0800
          Re: Yet another draw of rectangle humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 01:36 -0800
            Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-20 02:16 -0800
              Re: Yet another draw of rectangle humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 02:36 -0800
              Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-11-20 07:48 -0500
                Re: Yet another draw of rectangle rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-22 23:36 -0500
      Re: Yet another draw of rectangle humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 02:03 -0800
        Re: Yet another draw of rectangle "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-20 21:49 +1100
          Re: Yet another draw of rectangle humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 03:33 -0800
            Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-20 08:52 -0800
            Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-20 12:05 -0600
            Re: Yet another draw of rectangle "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-21 10:43 +1100
              Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-20 16:25 -0800
                Re: Yet another draw of rectangle "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-21 15:20 +1100
                  Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-22 00:02 -0800
                    Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-22 01:00 -0800
                      Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-22 01:13 -0800
                        Re: Yet another draw of rectangle "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2016-11-22 20:54 +0000
                          Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-27 13:32 +1100
                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-26 18:52 -0800
                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-28 15:00 +1100
                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-27 18:32 -1000
                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-27 20:44 -0800
                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-29 15:22 +1100
                                    Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-11-29 00:42 -0500
                                      Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-28 22:20 -1000
                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-29 17:18 -0800
                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-11-29 23:15 -0500
                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 07:08 +0200
                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-29 21:51 -1000
                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 12:09 +0200
                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-30 09:43 -1000
                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-11-30 17:36 -0600
                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-30 14:31 -1000
                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 07:02 +0200
                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-12-01 08:58 -1000
                                                    Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-01 16:44 -0800
                                                      Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-05 21:28 +1100
                                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-05 07:41 -0800
                                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-06 18:13 +1100
                                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-12-05 21:36 -1000
                                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-06 00:05 -0800
                                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-08 10:09 +1100
                                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-07 15:27 -0800
                                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-08 04:22 -0600
                                                                    Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-08 17:05 -0800
                                                                      Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-12-09 01:47 -0800
                                                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-09 04:01 -0600
                                                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-09 06:49 -0800
                                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-10 10:15 +1100
                                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) josv@planet.nl - 2017-04-12 04:47 -0700
                                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-12-07 14:34 -1000
                                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-07 18:39 -0800
                                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-10 09:38 +1100
                                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-09 16:25 -0800
                                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-06 00:14 -0800
                                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-12-06 12:01 +0000
                                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-06 10:21 -0800
                                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-09 16:27 -0800
                                                                    Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2017-04-08 21:05 -0400
                                                                      Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-08 18:57 -0700
                                                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 05:28 -0700
                                                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-09 06:45 -0700
                                                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2017-04-10 16:54 -0400
                                                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-10 17:21 -0700
                                                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-11 08:03 +0100
                                                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-11 07:50 +0000
                                                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2017-04-11 11:43 -0400
                                                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 10:16 -0700
                                                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-11 10:21 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 10:48 -0700
                                                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-11 23:58 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 03:07 -0400
                                                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 00:29 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 00:55 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 04:07 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 13:29 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 16:51 -0400
                                                                                      Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 03:50 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-12 12:55 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 04:17 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-12 06:03 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 04:30 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-12 08:44 -0500
                                                                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 13:01 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 13:33 -0700
                                                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 12:59 -0700
                                                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 17:05 -0400
                                                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 10:27 -0700
                                                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 14:02 -0400
                                                                      Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 20:10 -0700
                                                                      Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 13:16 -0400
                                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-05 12:01 -0600
                                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-05 10:39 -0800
                                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-05 18:53 +0000
                                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-05 11:33 -0800
                                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-05 22:22 +0000
                                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-06 04:29 -0600
                                                                    Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-06 11:32 -0800
                                                                    Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-07 19:06 -0800
                                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-06 04:27 -0600
                                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-06 10:24 -0800
                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) john <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-30 13:41 +0000
                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-11-30 15:15 +0000
                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) john <anon@example.com> - 2016-12-01 09:54 +0000
                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-01 04:42 -0600
                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 13:09 -0400
                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 13:14 -0400
                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-12 08:32 -1000
                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 12:42 -0700
                                                    Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-12 10:36 -1000
                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 16:41 -0400
                                                    Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-12 13:25 -1000
                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 14:13 -0700
                                                    Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 17:45 -0400
                                                Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 05:53 -0700
                                                  Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 13:34 -0400
                                      Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) john <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-29 11:48 +0000
                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-11-29 14:24 +0000
                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) john <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-29 21:27 +0000
                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-29 18:15 -0800
                                            Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-11-30 10:03 +0000
                                              Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-01 16:14 -0800
                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-29 12:22 -1000
                                      Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-29 14:31 +0100
                                      Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-02 23:05 +1100
                                        Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-12-03 01:58 -0500
                                          Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-03 22:00 +1100
                      Re: Yet another draw of rectangle "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-23 10:11 +1100
                        Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-23 00:01 -0800
                          Re: Yet another draw of rectangle albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-23 13:49 +0100
                            Re: Yet another draw of rectangle foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-11-23 10:51 -0800
                              Re: Yet another draw of rectangle "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-24 09:26 -1000
                            Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-23 12:28 -0800
                            Re: Yet another draw of rectangle hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-24 16:54 -0800
                              Re: Yet another draw of rectangle rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 02:20 -0500
                              Re: Yet another draw of rectangle albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-25 10:39 +0100
                    Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-11-22 04:17 -0600
                      Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-22 10:38 -0800
                    Re: Yet another draw of rectangle humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 13:05 -0800
                      Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-29 15:23 -0800
                    Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-11-24 07:46 +0200
                      Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-23 21:59 -0800
                        Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-11-24 08:12 +0200
        Re: Yet another draw of rectangle rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 22:22 -0500
          Re: Yet another draw of rectangle humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 21:14 -0800
            Re: Yet another draw of rectangle rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-24 01:06 -0500
            Re: Yet another draw of rectangle "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-25 11:56 +1100
    Re: Yet another draw of rectangle hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-19 23:14 -0800
      Re: Yet another draw of rectangle hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-24 18:11 -0800
        Re: Yet another draw of rectangle luser droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-24 18:58 -0800
          Re: Yet another draw of rectangle luser droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-24 20:01 -0800
    Re: Yet another draw of rectangle Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 14:08 -0800
    Re: Yet another draw of rectangle lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 06:41 -0700

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#57118 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-12 04:07 -0400
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<ockn2a$trd$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57116
On 4/12/2017 3:55 AM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Also, I don't think that I have "problems of cooperation" --- I have
> repeatedly said that I want to cooperate with Forth programmers on
> designing a Forth standard --- I don't declare myself by fiat to be
> the "leading expert" of all Forth programmers and demand that all
> Forth programmers accept that I am their "superior" (note that the
> word "superior" was introduced into this discussion by you, not me).

Lol, in the very sentence where you say you don't have a problem with 
cooperation you can't complete it without criticizing the person you are 
talking to.

If you have no problem with cooperation, why were you not able to 
cooperate with the Forth standards body enough to avoid being kicked out 
of the discussions?  Or do I have it wrong and you left of your own 
accord, which still makes my point that you couldn't cooperate with them.


> Our disagreement seems to be that I think a Forth standard needs to
> be designed by Forth programmers, whereas you are in favor of a Forth
> marketer.

But according to you there aren't many Forth programmers.  Where would 
you find the Forth programmers to form a Forth standards committee?

-- 

Rick C

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#57169 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-04-12 13:29 -0700
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<bc2e14c9-34e2-4003-b325-289ca5d18158@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#57118
On Wednesday, April 12, 2017 at 1:07:33 AM UTC-7, rickman wrote:
> On 4/12/2017 3:55 AM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Also, I don't think that I have "problems of cooperation" --- I have
> > repeatedly said that I want to cooperate with Forth programmers on
> > designing a Forth standard --- I don't declare myself by fiat to be
> > the "leading expert" of all Forth programmers and demand that all
> > Forth programmers accept that I am their "superior" (note that the
> > word "superior" was introduced into this discussion by you, not me).
> 
> Lol, in the very sentence where you say you don't have a problem with 
> cooperation you can't complete it without criticizing the person you are 
> talking to.
> 
> If you have no problem with cooperation, why were you not able to 
> cooperate with the Forth standards body enough to avoid being kicked out 
> of the discussions?  Or do I have it wrong and you left of your own 
> accord, which still makes my point that you couldn't cooperate with them.

I said: "I want to cooperate with Forth programmers on designing a Forth standard."

I did not say that I want to cooperate with an idiot marketing-genius who has spent her life braying about how she is the "leading expert" of the entire Forth community and claiming that Forth programmers such as myself are entirely dependent upon her for leadership. Her definition of the word "cooperate" is synonymous with my definition of "brown-nose."

> > Our disagreement seems to be that I think a Forth standard needs to
> > be designed by Forth programmers, whereas you are in favor of a Forth
> > marketer.
> 
> But according to you there aren't many Forth programmers.  Where would 
> you find the Forth programmers to form a Forth standards committee?

That is the problem!

For cooperation to work, there has to be mutual respect --- people such as Elizabeth Rather and Stephen Pelc have zero respect for Forth programmers, but instead have fear and hatred for Forth programmers --- I have zero respect for marketing geniuses.

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#57174 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-12 16:51 -0400
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<ocm3rl$4bj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57169
On 4/12/2017 4:29 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 12, 2017 at 1:07:33 AM UTC-7, rickman wrote:
>> On 4/12/2017 3:55 AM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Also, I don't think that I have "problems of cooperation" --- I
>>> have repeatedly said that I want to cooperate with Forth
>>> programmers on designing a Forth standard --- I don't declare
>>> myself by fiat to be the "leading expert" of all Forth
>>> programmers and demand that all Forth programmers accept that I
>>> am their "superior" (note that the word "superior" was introduced
>>> into this discussion by you, not me).
>>
>> Lol, in the very sentence where you say you don't have a problem
>> with cooperation you can't complete it without criticizing the
>> person you are talking to.
>>
>> If you have no problem with cooperation, why were you not able to
>> cooperate with the Forth standards body enough to avoid being
>> kicked out of the discussions?  Or do I have it wrong and you left
>> of your own accord, which still makes my point that you couldn't
>> cooperate with them.
>
> I said: "I want to cooperate with Forth programmers on designing a
> Forth standard."
>
> I did not say that I want to cooperate with an idiot marketing-genius
> who has spent her life braying about how she is the "leading expert"
> of the entire Forth community and claiming that Forth programmers
> such as myself are entirely dependent upon her for leadership. Her
> definition of the word "cooperate" is synonymous with my definition
> of "brown-nose."

Ok, I think that is perfectly clear.  You are completely unable to 
cooperate with anyone who it might be useful to work with to form a 
Forth standard.  No only are you argumentative, but your paranoid 
delusions prevent you from even having a productive conversation.


>>> Our disagreement seems to be that I think a Forth standard needs
>>> to be designed by Forth programmers, whereas you are in favor of
>>> a Forth marketer.
>>
>> But according to you there aren't many Forth programmers.  Where
>> would you find the Forth programmers to form a Forth standards
>> committee?
>
> That is the problem!

Actually, this completely eliminates the problem.  If you are the only 
Forth programmer, everything you write is by definition Forth "standard" 
code!  No need to even consider a formal document defining the language. 
  By definition it is what you write.  Nice, that is a very Forthish way 
to solve the problem.


> For cooperation to work, there has to be mutual respect --- people
> such as Elizabeth Rather and Stephen Pelc have zero respect for Forth
> programmers, but instead have fear and hatred for Forth programmers
> --- I have zero respect for marketing geniuses.

You made a typo.  You wrote "Forth programmers" when you should have 
written "Forth programmer", which would be only you, no?

I think this conversation is at an end.  You have your one true "Forth 
standard" and some others have theirs.  Why do you need to worry with 
their work in order to do your own?  Why not end your ranting and just 
do some work?

Many years ago I worked for some guys who ran their own landscaping 
business, two brothers, a friend and myself working the summer.  They 
bought a couple of old trucks and when you put down the sun visor in one 
written on the back side it said, "do some work".  lol

-- 

Rick C

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#57141 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromlehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-12 03:50 -0700
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<ab10f14c-758b-432a-a723-3aaffe9b6f84@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#57116
I've never done a professional work as a programmer and I don't think that I would have been able to do programming for living. A good professional programmer, I imagin, makes great code private but do what is asked for as a professional. Whithout whining and flashbacks. I can't even say I do great code in private and I would certainly not like to do what I was told. 

And I wouldn't care if someone called me a lousy programmer as long as I have fun and make progress. For what I have been seen, there is a whole world of programmers and computer scientists being better than me. 

You are totally uninteresting for me as long as the slender campange continues. If you could behave decent and focus on Forth there is a chance that you might succeed else not.

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#57144 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

FromLars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org>
Date2017-04-12 12:55 +0200
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<864lxtvqsd.fsf@molnjunk.nocrew.org>
In reply to#57141
lehs wrote:
> A good professional programmer, I imagin, makes great code private but
> do what is asked for as a professional.

You make it sound like we're asked to do mediocre code at work. :-)

Well, maybe it's not that far from the truth.

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#57146 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromlehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-12 04:17 -0700
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<b9377fe5-abdb-4e5f-b86d-1a09350260cb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#57144
No I didn't mean that professionals where told to do second-rate code, but you might have to do that also from time to time, I guess.

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#57145 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2017-04-12 06:03 -0500
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<L9WdnZY2iIEMlHPFnZ2dnUU7-bednZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#57141
lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've never done a professional work as a programmer and I don't
> think that I would have been able to do programming for living. A
> good professional programmer, I imagin, makes great code private but
> do what is asked for as a professional. Whithout whining and
> flashbacks.

That's really not what it's like!  :-)

Andrew.

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#57147 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromlehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-12 04:30 -0700
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<29a1fce9-0b8e-41a3-835a-673620c00ef1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#57145
What is it like then? Like a dreamjob with a lot of stimulating assignments and with superiors serving coffee?

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#57151 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2017-04-12 08:44 -0500
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<XsydnY3qYoeisnPFnZ2dnUU7-XnNnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#57147
lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> wrote:

> What is it like then? Like a dreamjob with a lot of stimulating
> assignments and with superiors serving coffee?

No.  People are people: of course there are egos to deal with, and
bickering and upsets, and most of the kinds of folly of which people
are capable.  But often there is real encouragement to try to find
elegant solutions to problems, and everyone loves great code.  There
is plenty of mutual support and assistance.  Just what you'd hope for,
really, no surprises.  With regard to stimulating assignments, if
you're lucky you can people change companies until you find a company
and job that you like.

And nobody gets to make my coffee: I know what I'm doing!

Andrew.

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#57162 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-12 13:01 -0400
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<oclmb3$i1h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57147
On 4/12/2017 7:30 AM, lehs wrote:
> What is it like then? Like a dreamjob with a lot of stimulating assignments and with superiors serving coffee?

Reminds me of a joke about a guy to dies and goes to Hell.  He is being 
taken to his room where he will spend eternity and passes through some 
truly horrendous rooms with simply awful things being done to the souls 
there.  Finally he is brought to a room where people are sitting in a 
lake of hot excrement sipping tea and coffee.  This poor soul thinks, 
"Maybe this isn't so bad" when a whistle blows and the foreman yells, 
"Ok everyone, coffee break's over, heads down!"

Every one of those poor, lost souls were Forth programmers.  :(

-- 

Rick C

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#57170 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-04-12 13:33 -0700
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<561fa433-5bbd-45d5-acd2-8580f305b1b7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#57145
On Wednesday, April 12, 2017 at 4:03:50 AM UTC-7, Andrew Haley wrote:
> lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've never done a professional work as a programmer and I don't
> > think that I would have been able to do programming for living. A
> > good professional programmer, I imagin, makes great code private but
> > do what is asked for as a professional. Whithout whining and
> > flashbacks.
> 
> That's really not what it's like!  :-)
> 
> Andrew.

Andrew Haley's background in Forth, that qualified him to be appointed by Elizabeth Rather to the Forth-200x committee, is that he taught the novice-class at Forth Inc. when Elizabeth Rather was unable to do so herself.

Obviously, a programmer would not teach the novice-class --- only a salesman would be given such an assignment --- for Andrew Haley, this was a dream job.

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#57168 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-04-12 12:59 -0700
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<381dfa8e-f742-4c82-b674-e4598cbdcdee@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#57047
On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 8:41:14 AM UTC-7, Rob Sciuk wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2017, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > Elizabeth Rather and Stephen Pelc both told me in 2009 that I could 
> > never be a Forth programmer. Any "other words" that I may have had were 
> > killed at that time, and forever after. They told me to go away. But I 
> > didn't go away --- and I didn't begin brown-nosing them either, in the 
> > hopes of being allowed to be a Forth programmer --- they created this 
> > situation, not me.
> 
> Rather than publicly venting your spleen, if you 
> feel that you have been wronged, avenge yourself by doing interesting 
> things and sharing them with the community.

Elizabeth Rather and Stephen Pelc both told me in 2009 that I could never be a Forth programmer. Their expectation is that I would simply leave --- switch over to C like all of the other UR/Forth programmers did --- accept that I can't be a Forth programmer and stop writing Forth code.

But I continue to program in Forth, and I program in ANS-Forth when possible just to shine a spotlight on the stupidity of ANS-Forth. Every time I write ANS-Forth code I make the committee look stupid. Every time that anybody writes ANS-Forth code this helps to kill ANS-Forth.

My SYNONYM SYNONYM-FAST and ALIAS words are a good example. These require the disambiguifiers to work. I won't bother to show the disambiguifiers here now because they are easy to write, although they are intermediate-level ANS-Forth programming. My impression of you is that you are a novice-level Forth programmer and you need to be spoon-fed intermediate-level Forth code by somebody who is capable of writing such code. If this is the case, and you are incapable of writing disambiguifiers, then I will be happy to post the code here for your benefit. In the meantime, I will just post the SYNONYM SYNONYM-FAST and ALIAS words' code.

Here is where the subject was discussed:

On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:42:55 PM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Apr 2015 19:18:04 -0700 (PDT), hughaguilar96@gmail.com
> wrote:
> >This is not ANS-Forth code --- I don't want to RTFM because I don't want to
> > become an expert on VFX --- I'm already an expert on ANS-Forth.
>
> You asked a tech-support question about VFX. I answered it pointing
> out that your initial assumption (how IF works) was wrong.
>
> The code illustrates precisely why SYNONYM is defined the way it is
> defined - because it requires carnal knowledge. If you want to know
> how SYNONYM works:
>   "So how do you write SYNONYM so that it can make a synonym of an
>   immediate word?"
> then do not complain when you are told.
>
> Stephen

My assumption about IF was that it was immediate. This is sometimes right (SwiftForth) and sometimes wrong (VFX). The ambiguity of ANS-Forth, however, is meta-wrong --- ambiguity such as this is absurd --- ANS-Forth is a standard that doesn't standardize.

Being an ANS-Forth programmer is all about "can't" --- ANS-Forth expertise seems to consist primarily of telling people what they can't do, which is what Stephen Pelc is telling me --- Albert van der Horst also tells me that I can't write SYNONYM in ANS-Forth:

On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 4:56:31 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 3:48:32 AM UTC-7, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> > We already have been over this. You can't define SYNONYM in ISO Forth.
> > It requires carnal knowledge. So how would you call some one who still
> > tries?
>
> I would use the term "programmer" to describe such a person.

Here is my code:

\ ******
\ ****** Our SYNONYM SYNONYM-FAST and ALIAS words --- these depend upon having the disambiguifiers available.
\ ******

: :synonym { xt flg str wid -- }            \ FLG is 1 for immediate and -1 for non-immediate
    str wid :name
    flg 1 = if      xt lit,  execute,  ;,  immediate        exit then
    flg -1 = if     xt compile,  ;,                         exit then
    true abort" *** :SYNONYM given an invalid xt ***" ;

: :synonym-fast-check ( -- )
    state @ 0= abort" *** a word created by :SYNONYM-FAST can't be used in interpretive mode ***" ;

: :synonym-fast { xt flg str wid -- }       \ FLG is 1 for immediate and -1 for non-immediate
    str wid :name
    flg 1 = if      xt lit,  execute,  ;,  immediate                exit then
    flg -1 = if     postpone :synonym-fast-check
                    xt lit,  postpone compile,  ;,  immediate       exit then
    true abort" *** :SYNONYM-FAST given an invalid xt ***" ;

: 'find ( -- xt flg )                       \ stream: name                  \ FLG is 1 for immediate and -1 for non-immediate
    bl word find  dup 0= abort" *** 'FIND couldn't find the word ***" ;

: synonym { wid | new -- }                  \ stream: new-name old-name     \ the new word is compiled into the WID word-list
    bl word hstr to new
    'find  new  wid :synonym
    new dealloc ;

: synonym-fast { wid | new -- }             \ stream: new-name old-name     \ the new word is compiled into the WID word-list
    bl parse <hstr> to new
    'find  new  wid :synonym-fast
    new dealloc ;

\ :SYNONYM-FAST generates faster executing code than :SYNONYM but the words can't be used in interpretive mode.
\ This may not be necessary with a good optimizing compiler, but I'm not aware of any at this time.

1234512345 constant alias-id                \ an arbitrary number used to identify alias'd definitions

0
    w field alias.xt                        \ this should be the first field so the DOES> portion of ALIAS will be fast (no addition needed)
    w field alias.adr                       \ the address of the body, used to identify alias'd definitions
    w field alias.id                        \ the constant ALIAS-ID,   used to identify alias'd definitions
constant alias-struct

: alias ( wid -- )                          \ stream: new-name old-name     \ the new word is compiled into the WID word-list
    get-current  swap set-current  create  set-current
        here >r  alias-struct allot
        'find 1 = if  immediate  then   r@ alias.xt !
        r@                              r@ alias.adr !
        alias-id                        r@ alias.id !
        rdrop
    does>
        alias.xt @  execute ;

\ ALIAS does the same thing as SYNONYM but has the advantage that >BODY will work on it.
\ It is slower executing though (especially under SwiftForth in which CREATE DOES> words are very inefficient).

: >body ( xt -- adr )
    >body >r
    r@ alias.adr @  r@ = if  r@ alias.id @  alias-id = if                   \ is this an alias'd word?
        r> alias.xt @  >body  exit then then                                \ return the body of the original word
    r> ;                                                                    \ return the body of this word

\ Note that >BODY still has an undefined result if used on a word that wasn't defined with CREATE or isn't an alias of such a word.

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#57176 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-12 17:05 -0400
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<ocm4ke$7b6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57168
On 4/12/2017 3:59 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Elizabeth Rather and Stephen Pelc both told me in 2009 that I could
> never be a Forth programmer. Their expectation is that I would simply
> leave

This reminds me of an xkcd joke where a James Bond like figure is 
strapped to a table and is having a conversation with the Goldfinger 
like figure about centrifugal force vs. centripedal force.  The Bond 
figure says, "Come now, do you really expect me to do coordinate 
substitution in my head while strapped to a centrifuge?"  The Goldfinger 
figure responds, "No, Mister Bond. I expect you to die."

-- 

Rick C

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#57051 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

FromIlya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-11 10:27 -0700
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<ce191148-a482-4fb3-96ce-c4adaedfc2d7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#57024
I think since you are posting your code regularly, nobody can surely claim you are not a forther. Your relations with Forth Inc. are understandable and your reaction is understandable too. I see many peoples here thinks you are too angry and shows too much agression, but there are two sides of problem - personal and objective.

From the personal side, peoples may be abused by other peoples and keep this for a long time. From the objective side, it is important what was a reason for that abuse. Personal relations are important for peoples involved. Technical reason, from the oher side, creates a precedence. What about kicking Moore after he did his SeaForth CPU? An incidents of kicking anyone by personal or financial reasons looks stupid always and 10 times stupid in such rare community like Forth. Things are simple - when you have a lot of programmers, you may choose best one. If you have a very little peoples who are ready to contact you - keep them. (Indeed, we should always try to keep relations whenever possible).

However, this is a game for many players. An official person should apply more effort for keeping a work atmosphere. Ignoring common trends looks not too wise.

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#57055 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-11 14:02 -0400
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<ocj5hq$22q$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#57024
On 4/10/2017 8:21 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>
> It is time to press the flush lever. Get rid of ANS-Forth. Start over
> with a new standard. Kick Elizabeth Rather out of the Forth community
> --- just as she and Stephen Pelc tried to kick me out of the Forth
> community in 2009 --- there is no other way for Forth to succeed.

We are waiting for you to show us the way.  But you seem totally 
obsessed with writing ANS code and *NOT* starting over.  Your 
disabiguafiers are a perfect example.  No one in their right mind would 
have dug so deeply into the broken code of ANS compilers.  A smart 
person would have recognized right away that it was a pointless effort 
and started fresh without using a trace of such a criminally broken 
approach.

What is wrong with you Hugh?  Why can't you take your own advice and get 
us the Forth we all need and deserve?  Do it now!  Lock yourself in a 
room with a computer and don't come out again until you have written the 
perfect Forth, the Forth that will save all mankind!!!  (slide rules are 
optional)

-- 

Rick C

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#56890 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

FromJulian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-08 20:10 -0700
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<6c554b40-a8af-4f66-9ce4-01ac2bf30a9d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#56884
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 8:06:10 PM UTC-5, Rob Sciuk wrote:
> 
> You know, Hugh, your inane and irrational rants against Ms. Rather are 
> growing more than tiresome.  It is time to just get over whatever it is 
> that is up your butt and simply move on.
> 
> Rob Sciuk

Please at least snip the rants when you reply to them.

We've read all of them before.

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#57243 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-13 13:16 -0400
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<ocobjc$ks3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56884
On 4/8/2017 9:05 PM, Rob Sciuk wrote:
>
> You know, Hugh, your inane and irrational rants against Ms. Rather are
> growing more than tiresome.  It is time to just get over whatever it is
> that is up your butt and simply move on.

Somehow I missed this post until now.  If you think there is anything 
you can say that will change the way Hugh is, you are mistaken.  Hugh 
has a mental illness that causes him to act the way he does.  He will 
never change until he gets treatment, assuming there is anything they 
*can* do to treat him.  But his illness makes him think he has no 
problem, so he won't seek treatment.  He will remain the way he is until 
he gets so bad he does something illegal and is forced to confront his 
problem.

I wish he would get treatment.  Certainly the life he lives is not a 
happy one.  He could be a very good programmer and at least make a good 
income even if his job was not fulfilling.

-- 

Rick C

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#53089 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2016-12-05 12:01 -0600
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<kLSdnbRlEvEdNtjFnZ2dnUU7-TGdnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#53080
HAA <someone@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Fetching is relatively fast.  It's the multiply used in simple
> multidim arrays that slows it down.  An array that lays down
> pointers need only execute CELLS + @ for each index.  Nothing comes
> free and memory is traded for speed.  Each case on its merits.

Kinda sorta, but on today's processors multiplies and fetches both
take about four or five cycles of latency.  The difference is that you
if you're multiplying you have to load the constant to multiply by as
well as actually doing the multiplication.  This constant might be in
an immediate field, but probably isn't; if you're careful or lucky
it's just a shift.

Andrew.

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#53091 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2016-12-05 10:39 -0800
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<09aa4594-cf4a-4b20-a32d-0dcc90fea3fc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#53089
On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 11:01:43 AM UTC-7, Andrew Haley wrote:
> HAA <someone@microsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> > Fetching is relatively fast.  It's the multiply used in simple
> > multidim arrays that slows it down.  An array that lays down
> > pointers need only execute CELLS + @ for each index.  Nothing comes
> > free and memory is traded for speed.  Each case on its merits.
> 
> Kinda sorta, but on today's processors multiplies and fetches both
> take about four or five cycles of latency.  The difference is that you
> if you're multiplying you have to load the constant to multiply by as
> well as actually doing the multiplication.  This constant might be in
> an immediate field, but probably isn't; if you're careful or lucky
> it's just a shift.
> 
> Andrew.

I think it was an honest mistake for HAA to assume that I'm multiplying --- that is how 1ARRAY 2ARRAY etc. work (although if the dimension is a power of two then it is just a shift because LIT*, optimizes internally) --- by ARY doesn't use multiply.

I don't think it is an honest mistake for Andrew Haley to assume that I'm multiplying. He knows that my ARY was derived from his code. He also knows that my ARY is better than his code because I allow the array element to be any size, so you can have an array of structs, whereas he forces the array element to be cell size so you can only have an array of integers or an array of pointers. Andrew Haley is an employee of Elizabeth Rather and so he has to pretend that it is not possible to write an array definer that allows the array element to be any size --- also, as a practical matter, he is using CREATE DOES> which only allows one action to be associated with the array, and so he has no way to support generality in the element size.

It is a good point though that multiply on a modern processor is pretty fast (division continues to be a speed sink though). I never considered 1ARRAY 2ARRAY etc. to be inefficient. I switched over to ARY because it is a lot more convenient, and there is a lot less code generated (which could be an issue if there are a lot of arrays defined). I still have 1ARRAY 2ARRAY etc. in the novice-package --- I just encourage the use of ARY instead --- in Straight Forth I will only have ARY because I don't want redundancy; I want all the programs to look similar so code maintainers can learn how any particular program works quickly (this is more important to me than allowing everybody to be a cowboy and consequently have every program look different, like in ANS-Forth).

This is LIT*, that is used internally by 1ARRAY 2ARRAY etc..:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
: lg ( u -- val|-1 )                    \ -1 if not a power of 2
    dup 0= if  drop  -1  exit then
    0 begin                             \ -- u val
        over 1 and 0= while  1+ >r  1 rshift  r> repeat
    over 1 xor if  2drop  -1 exit then                  \ not a power of 2
    nip ;

: lit*, ( mult -- )                     \ runtime: n -- n*mult
    dup 0 = if  drop    drop,  0 lit,   exit then
    dup 1 = if  drop                    exit then
    dup lg                                              \ -- mult lg(mult)
    dup 0< if   drop    lit,  *,
    else        nip     lit,  lshift,   then ;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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#53092 — Re: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2016-12-05 18:53 +0000
SubjectRe: Yet another language ( was Yet another draw of rectangle)
Message-ID<o24d07$2fu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#53091
On 12/5/2016 18:39, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:

> Andrew Haley is an
> employee of Elizabeth Rather

Really?

-- 
Alex

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