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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #56541 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-04-01 12:10 -0400 |
| Last post | 2017-04-08 01:37 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 202 — 25 participants |
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Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 12:10 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-01 17:06 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 16:37 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 19:21 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-01 17:16 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 01:26 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 12:51 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 18:50 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 19:18 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 21:29 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 22:01 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-02 21:46 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 21:54 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-02 22:26 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 08:34 +0300
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-01 18:47 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 01:28 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 04:02 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 12:39 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-02 15:44 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 20:56 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 01:16 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 21:38 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-07 16:42 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-08 12:41 -0500
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-01 17:31 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-01 22:03 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 01:39 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-01 22:56 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 12:32 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 12:45 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-02 22:03 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same wordsas "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2017-04-13 20:31 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same wordsas "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2017-04-13 20:35 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same wordsas "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2017-04-13 20:37 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same wordsas "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 19:11 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 12:58 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-02 22:06 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-03 10:49 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-04 01:21 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-04-02 13:58 +0100
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 11:16 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 19:38 +0300
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-02 22:10 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-02 22:02 +0200
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-02 15:31 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 23:48 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 23:49 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 10:23 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-03 15:56 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-03 20:57 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-03 08:08 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-02 19:22 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 22:46 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 20:38 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 07:07 +0300
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 00:17 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 07:41 +0300
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-07 20:23 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 00:15 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 21:45 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-04 02:08 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-04 03:45 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-04 06:25 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-07 20:19 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 17:33 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-08 18:45 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 19:03 +0000
Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 08:23 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? joel.rees@gmail.com - 2017-04-06 03:02 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 15:46 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-07 18:59 +0200
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 20:57 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 20:37 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 01:31 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 21:45 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-07 20:32 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 01:31 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-08 06:18 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? mhx@iae.nl - 2017-04-08 03:01 -0700
Starting Forth (was: Is there a free version ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-08 12:34 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 15:53 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-09 09:36 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-07 20:30 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 17:51 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 01:22 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 23:01 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-08 23:23 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 17:11 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-09 18:18 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 23:05 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 03:11 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-09 12:24 +0200
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-09 14:16 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-09 13:50 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-10 06:19 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-10 11:20 +0200
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-10 18:49 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-10 19:42 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-11 15:26 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-07 10:24 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 20:42 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-07 11:28 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-09 07:32 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-08 14:30 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 16:53 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-09 14:44 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-09 08:19 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 00:26 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-09 21:39 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 07:47 +0300
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-09 21:51 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 09:18 +0300
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-10 11:41 +0200
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-10 07:57 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-10 12:27 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-10 15:57 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-04-11 13:24 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 01:32 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 23:37 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-10 16:59 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-10 17:49 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 14:32 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 12:09 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-11 12:18 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 15:54 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 01:47 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 12:39 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 02:33 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? mhx@iae.nl - 2017-04-11 04:12 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 03:14 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 16:02 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 14:24 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 03:09 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 21:37 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 15:59 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-04-12 17:12 +0100
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 14:19 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 03:54 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-11 21:12 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 07:19 +0300
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 00:27 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 07:32 +0300
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 12:49 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-11 21:37 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 07:53 +0300
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 16:25 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 16:27 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 12:52 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 12:53 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 03:51 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 00:22 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-13 15:59 +0100
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 13:07 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 03:58 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 02:54 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 18:29 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-09 07:23 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-09 08:04 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-09 23:23 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 10:00 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-10 09:21 -0500
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 10:49 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-10 10:26 -0500
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 03:10 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same wordsas "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2017-04-13 20:55 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-07 12:41 -0500
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 20:48 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 14:03 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-07 21:21 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-08 03:28 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 02:39 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-07 12:45 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 00:26 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-07 14:38 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 01:20 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-07 16:17 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-08 12:49 +0100
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murpy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 01:01 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-09 10:06 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-09 19:37 +0200
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-09 16:09 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-09 17:26 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-09 22:32 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-09 22:44 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 18:47 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-10 12:31 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-04-10 10:18 -1000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-10 16:14 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 18:11 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-11 03:21 -0500
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 11:02 -0700
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-12 04:42 -0500
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 13:51 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-08 14:04 +0000
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-08 09:10 +0200
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-08 12:50 -0500
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 21:31 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-04-07 20:50 -0500
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 22:04 -0400
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-04-07 21:22 -0500
Re: Is there a free version of Forth that uses the exact same words as "Starting Forth" on Forth Inc.'s site? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 01:37 -0400
Page 8 of 11 — ← Prev page 1 … 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 Next page →
| From | Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-12 07:19 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <ock9ls$9pa$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57095 |
On 12/04/2017 7:12, Paul Rubin wrote: > Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> writes: >> Using too much RAM memory means the software or OS will run slower due >> to hard drive paging. > > When was the last time you saw that happen? For that matter, when was > the last time you saw a hard drive? I guess hard drives are still > around, but most personal computers these days use solid state disks, > especially if you count mobile phones. You must be well-to-do. I've got six PCs (Windows, Linux and macOS). Only one has an SSD in it. > Try: http://www.libreoffice.org/ Yes, I use that. But if you must exchange documents with (for example) a customer who can only use MS Office, you may find that compatibility is a big problem. Not to mention that LibreOffice can be quite slow to start up and indeed, takes a lot of resources. And is buggy, but then so is MS Office. When I want output that looks good, I use TeX (xetex, to be exact) so the output always looks exactly as I wish. Of course, that makes PDF files which my correspondents cannot edit...
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-12 00:27 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ocka5d$apd$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57096 |
On 4/12/2017 12:19 AM, Ron Aaron wrote: > >> Try: http://www.libreoffice.org/ > > Yes, I use that. But if you must exchange documents with (for example) > a customer who can only use MS Office, you may find that compatibility > is a big problem. Not to mention that LibreOffice can be quite slow to > start up and indeed, takes a lot of resources. And is buggy, but then > so is MS Office. I don't find many bugs. I use LibreOffice all the time. Do the bugs you find get in the way? One of the reasons I stated using LibreOffice was because of file incompatibilities. My customers would send me DOCX files when my copy of MSOffice wouldn't read them. LibreOffice opened them just fine. I then spat out a .DOC file and opened it in MSOffice. Eventually I just gave up on the conversion and used LiberOffice to edit and create files and have never looked back. > When I want output that looks good, I use TeX (xetex, to be exact) so > the output always looks exactly as I wish. Of course, that makes PDF > files which my correspondents cannot edit... Why is that exactly? Do the PDF files end up being the PDF equivalent of an image file? -- Rick C
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| From | Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-12 07:32 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <ockafn$bdk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57098 |
On 12/04/2017 7:27, rickman wrote: > On 4/12/2017 12:19 AM, Ron Aaron wrote: >> >>> Try: http://www.libreoffice.org/ >> >> Yes, I use that. But if you must exchange documents with (for example) >> a customer who can only use MS Office, you may find that compatibility >> is a big problem. Not to mention that LibreOffice can be quite slow to >> start up and indeed, takes a lot of resources. And is buggy, but then >> so is MS Office. > > I don't find many bugs. I use LibreOffice all the time. Do the bugs > you find get in the way? Yes, actually. On Linux in particular, if I have RTL support turned on (Hebrew) then often if I press a shift key the paragraph changes to RTL instead of LTR, which is not supposed to happen. I've reported that, but you know... unless it itches one of the devs, it won't get fixed. That's the most painful bug I encounter. Others have to do with how LO handles numbering etc. It makes getting the desired formatting a bit of a challenge. Not to mention that the same document looks different on my Mac vs my Linux box (even though the fonts are all installed on both, etc). > > One of the reasons I stated using LibreOffice was because of file > incompatibilities. My customers would send me DOCX files when my copy > of MSOffice wouldn't read them. LibreOffice opened them just fine. I > then spat out a .DOC file and opened it in MSOffice. Eventually I just > gave up on the conversion and used LiberOffice to edit and create files > and have never looked back. Right, I do the same. I have the disadvantage of having worked at MS, in the Word group, long ago... so I am decidedly against using Word for any reason whatsoever. > > >> When I want output that looks good, I use TeX (xetex, to be exact) so >> the output always looks exactly as I wish. Of course, that makes PDF >> files which my correspondents cannot edit... > > Why is that exactly? Do the PDF files end up being the PDF equivalent > of an image file? No, but most people cannot edit PDF files or don't care to. The output from TeX is not designed to be editable (e.g. each character might be individually placed, etc).
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-12 12:49 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ocllkm$fop$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57100 |
On 4/12/2017 12:32 AM, Ron Aaron wrote: > > > On 12/04/2017 7:27, rickman wrote: >> On 4/12/2017 12:19 AM, Ron Aaron wrote: >>> >>>> Try: http://www.libreoffice.org/ >>> >>> Yes, I use that. But if you must exchange documents with (for example) >>> a customer who can only use MS Office, you may find that compatibility >>> is a big problem. Not to mention that LibreOffice can be quite slow to >>> start up and indeed, takes a lot of resources. And is buggy, but then >>> so is MS Office. >> >> I don't find many bugs. I use LibreOffice all the time. Do the bugs >> you find get in the way? > > Yes, actually. On Linux in particular, if I have RTL support turned on > (Hebrew) then often if I press a shift key the paragraph changes to RTL > instead of LTR, which is not supposed to happen. I've reported that, > but you know... unless it itches one of the devs, it won't get fixed. > > That's the most painful bug I encounter. Others have to do with how LO > handles numbering etc. It makes getting the desired formatting a bit of > a challenge. Not to mention that the same document looks different on > my Mac vs my Linux box (even though the fonts are all installed on both, > etc). Those sound like the sort of bugs you would find with any word processor. I don't use a word processor much myself, I use spread sheets a lot more and Calc seems to work very well. I can't think of any bugs that I encounter on any regular basis. >> One of the reasons I stated using LibreOffice was because of file >> incompatibilities. My customers would send me DOCX files when my copy >> of MSOffice wouldn't read them. LibreOffice opened them just fine. I >> then spat out a .DOC file and opened it in MSOffice. Eventually I just >> gave up on the conversion and used LiberOffice to edit and create files >> and have never looked back. > > Right, I do the same. I have the disadvantage of having worked at MS, > in the Word group, long ago... so I am decidedly against using Word for > any reason whatsoever. It's not a religious thing with me, I just found LO to work very well and actually solved the file compatibility issue, so it's a done deal. I have *MUCH* more trouble with my PC itself than I do any of the apps... with the possible exception of Thunderbird (which I'm using now). It has incredible slow downs and freezes to the point it sometimes is nearly unusable. >>> When I want output that looks good, I use TeX (xetex, to be exact) so >>> the output always looks exactly as I wish. Of course, that makes PDF >>> files which my correspondents cannot edit... >> >> Why is that exactly? Do the PDF files end up being the PDF equivalent >> of an image file? > > No, but most people cannot edit PDF files or don't care to. The output > from TeX is not designed to be editable (e.g. each character might be > individually placed, etc). I have seen that in some PDF files. Select and copy some text and it gets pasted with spaces between the characters. It can mess up searching too. I'm not sure that would be an issue with Tex per-se. I believe each app has an interface to the printing software. I expect the real problem is in the Tex PDF printer interface. -- Rick C
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-11 21:37 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <87mvbmjl5r.fsf@nightsong.com> |
| In reply to | #57096 |
Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> writes: > You must be well-to-do. I've got six PCs (Windows, Linux and macOS). > Only one has an SSD in it. You must be well-to-do. I only have one PC (not counting busted ones). Though I did spring some extra cash for the SSD in it a few years ago. These days hard disks have some workstation-like uses and really cheap PC's still come with them, but SSD is affordable and preferable for just about everything in between.
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| From | Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-12 07:53 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <ockblr$e4b$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57102 |
On 12/04/2017 7:37, Paul Rubin wrote: > Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> writes: >> You must be well-to-do. I've got six PCs (Windows, Linux and macOS). >> Only one has an SSD in it. > > You must be well-to-do. That would be nice... but no, I'm not. Most of the PCs are repurposed older machines. One is new, my wife's machine. The others are serviceable not-too-old machines. Only my MacBook Pro has an SSD. And yes, it does make a big difference in startup time and overall feel. Nevertheless, my Linux box with its standard hard-disks is snappier. I suppose if I gave it an SSD it would scream, but I don't have any particular need for that just now.
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| From | Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-12 16:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <MxsHA.946841$qK5.704138@fx45.am4> |
| In reply to | #57095 |
Paul Rubin wrote: > > When was the last time you saw that happen? For that matter, when was > the last time you saw a hard drive? I guess hard drives are still > around, but most personal computers these days use solid state disks, > especially if you count mobile phones. LOL!!! Don't get me started on tablets and mobile phones right now. I have a Galaxy S5 and ss an experiment I sold my PC to my mother, bought a Google Pixel C back in 2015 and went Android only till recently. Bad idea. Discovered that Android is a mess, most of the software isn't worth having and development sucks. It's like using a very out dated PC in your pocket without the ability to get into it and mod things unless you crack/hack it, which could brick it, just to get root! Now I'm on a Raspberry Pi and while it's again like having a out dated PC it's at least tweak/controlable and I can develop applications in dozens if not hundreds of different languages. Plus it was only $79.00 for the starter pack, which was a lot better than $800.00 for the tablet and $500.00 at the time for the phone! Now the raspberry pi 3 has a lot of issues too like no 3d to speak of, but I can play DOS games on it and I can finish learning Forth on it without pulling my hair out when gForth crashes like it did on my Tablet. Selling the tablet on E-Bay and staying with Raspberry Pi. They are nearly completely opensourced and are way powerful enough using Forth and Assembly! Next month I'll be getting a Raspberry Pi B+, putting pijforth on it and than I'm really going to be increasing my experience with Forth! > > MS Office bloat was a 1990s thing. It's all in the cloud now. The > culprit eating personal computers these days is web browsers. They are > much more insidious than word processors, since if you liked your 1990s > word processor you could keep using it while MS went off into the weeds. > But web browsers are on a truly forced upgrade cycle, since as they > support more crap, web sites start using that crap, so then you need new > browsers to view the sites, etc. > > You might like this: http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm So moving the bloat off the personal machine and letting it grow on the servers is better? Really? LOL!!! Besides that what about bandwidth issues? Right now I'm geting 150 mbps and no cap! Yeah it's nice, but how long will that last? Comcast (my ISP) is capping all over the place and I'm sure I'm next and when will my 150 mbps pipe be too small? Webpages are extremely bloated, insecure, overly advertized with junk now. What do you think they will be like in 5 years? Cloud is nice, but unless the thinking that has been messing up our Software Industry isn't changed soon, Cloud will be just as messed up and insecure. The problem hasn't been nor is currently with the hardware or the medium, its with the tools and the mindset of the builders using the tool! Take care now, > >> Have you looked at the price of MS Office? It's not $20.00 which would >> be considered cheap! > > Try: http://www.libreoffice.org/
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| From | Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-12 16:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <iAsHA.392868$QG3.324121@fx17.am4> |
| In reply to | #57095 |
Paul Rubin wrote: > Try: http://www.libreoffice.org/ Oh I forgot! About libreoffice. Your right in that it's free, but it's bloated, slow as hell and crashes even on my Raspberry Pi 3 occasionally. YAY!!! The only advantage/excuse is that it is free, but that is all it has. Take care now,
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-12 12:52 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ocllqs$fop$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57157 |
On 4/12/2017 12:27 PM, Darin Murphy wrote: > Paul Rubin wrote: > >> Try: http://www.libreoffice.org/ > > Oh I forgot! About libreoffice. Your right in that it's free, but it's > bloated, slow as hell and crashes even on my Raspberry Pi 3 > occasionally. YAY!!! The only advantage/excuse is that it is free, but > that is all it has. > > Take care now, I can't remember the last time LO crashed for me. You seem to have a lot more trouble with applications than most people do. Do you abuse your apps? Maybe that's why you are having trouble with Forth. Are you abusing Forth? -- Rick C
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-12 12:53 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ocllsr$fop$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57160 |
On 4/12/2017 12:52 PM, rickman wrote: > On 4/12/2017 12:27 PM, Darin Murphy wrote: >> Paul Rubin wrote: >> >>> Try: http://www.libreoffice.org/ >> >> Oh I forgot! About libreoffice. Your right in that it's free, but it's >> bloated, slow as hell and crashes even on my Raspberry Pi 3 >> occasionally. YAY!!! The only advantage/excuse is that it is free, but >> that is all it has. >> >> Take care now, > > I can't remember the last time LO crashed for me. You seem to have a > lot more trouble with applications than most people do. Do you abuse > your apps? Maybe that's why you are having trouble with Forth. Are you > abusing Forth? I should have added a smiley at the end of that paragraph just in case someone doesn't get that it was a joke. ;-) -- Rick C
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| From | Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-13 03:51 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <2bf5fb75-520f-436e-a0ec-2944a98550db@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #57160 |
On Wednesday, 12 April 2017 17:52:38 UTC+1, rickman wrote: > On 4/12/2017 12:27 PM, Darin Murphy wrote: > > Paul Rubin wrote: > > > >> Try: http://www.libreoffice.org/ > > > > Oh I forgot! About libreoffice. Your right in that it's free, but it's > > bloated, slow as hell and crashes even on my Raspberry Pi 3 > > occasionally. YAY!!! The only advantage/excuse is that it is free, but > > that is all it has. > > > > Take care now, > > I can't remember the last time LO crashed for me. You seem to have a > lot more trouble with applications than most people do. Do you abuse > your apps? Maybe that's why you are having trouble with Forth. Are you > abusing Forth? > > -- > > Rick C Same here. I've written some large documents in OO (>150 pages) and indexes etc and always worked flawlessly.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-12 00:22 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ock9sr$9rv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57092 |
On 4/11/2017 11:54 PM, Darin Murphy wrote: > rickman wrote: >>>> I have no idea what "mess" you are talking about. >>> >>> Man where have you been living these last 30 years? >> >> Much of it was in my family home in Frederick, MD and a home I bought in >> Herndon, VA. But more recently I am living in WV while spending time at >> my place in central VA. What does that have to do with this discussion? >> >> > > Your humor isn't. I believe it was the appropriate response to the question. >>> I am a retired IT >>> Support Technician who had been supporting PCs, Servers, general >>> networks, printers, etc for over twenty years. I started out of a flea >>> market in my twenties to supporting Sun Microsystems, Meag Power, Moen, >>> Intercontinental Hotels, just to name a few and I know a lot about the >>> mess we call modern operating systems and modern programming languages. >>> 30 years ago it was the hardware that was a mess with all of the >>> clones and everybody having their own OS, and nobody could talk to >>> anyone else's stuff. Now it's the software that is a complete bloated, >>> bug ridden mess. When you need over a giga byte just for your operating >>> systems than your in trouble and that not talking about the gigabytes >>> just to run a halfway decent word processor. It's a mess and all of it >>> is the fault of the consumer, the publishers who push the developers >>> past the point of realism and the developers for using bug ridden, >>> bloated programming languages to start off with. Trust me it is a mess >>> and it will stay that way until it gets so bad that the consumer grabs >>> pitch forks and start lynching people or until people realize you using >>> garbage to make something will only lead you to something that is >>> garbage. Garbage in = garbage out! KISS is not just a cute message it's >>> the only way to do it unless you want bloated bug ridden garbage and >>> whoever came up with the term "Good enough" had to be a salesman. >> >> Why is using memory a mess? How exactly are programming languages full >> of bugs? Isn't it the programs that are full of bugs? > > It is not using memory that is an issue, it's building software that > uses far more memory (10x to 100x) more memory that is part of the mess. Please read what you wrote. I would make another humorous comment, but you seem to not like humor, so I'll just point out that your comment makes no sense, literally. > Using too much RAM memory means the software or OS will run slower due > to hard drive paging. Using too much harddrive memory means less useful > information will be able exist on hard drive. That is what many refer to > as bloat and it is GOOD NOT = . I have watched the progression of > software bloat grow since the 90s to the point now where even a simple > word processing application can take litterally gigabytes of space and > for what? Is it modifying and adjusting a gigabyte of pages of data? > Does words spell checking dictionary hold every single natural language, > constructive language and made up language that has ever been in > existance? If so again why? If not than why is MS Word that big all by > itself? Or why would MS Office need 10s of gigabytes of hard drive space > and gigabytes of RAM just to run? I've been hearing for over two decades about how software developers produce "bloated" software. Usually the people saying this don't actually produce anything remotely similar to the software they are complaining about. It is easy to complain, but if you don't actually know anything about what it takes to write the software, I think it is better to not be quite so vehement. Or have I misjudged you and you are currently working on a commercially competitive word processor as we speak? > That is just one example of memory bloat, and I haven't talked about > most modern software memory leaks and again the question is why? As Paul > argued it's convenience and affordability. Have you looked at the price > of MS Office? It's not $20.00 which would be considered cheap! > > If you and Paul and whoever wants to argue about what I'm talking about, > cannot see the logical facts that have been going on over the last 20+ > years, than I can't help you. I'm not going to argue about it further. > It's not logical, its not productive and it's not rational. Anyway, > thank you for your opinon as ignorant as it is. Ah yes, the cry of the truly desperate, "If you don't understand, I can't help you!" Ok, I guess I'm beyond help. I'll tell you something I figured out in college while listening to lectures. If you can't explain something, it's not because it is inherently difficult to explain. It is because you don't fully understand it. >> Pitchforks? I have one around here somewhere. But I'm not interested >> in lynching anyone and I don't kiss very many. >> >> So the mess you are talking about is salesmen who ask for "good enough"? >> I'm not sure what that even means... >> >> >>>> I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt with wanting to learn >>>> Forth. I find it interesting when people come here looking to learn >>>> about Forth and quickly start explaining how the Forth they find isn't >>>> the Forth they are looking for and so they start criticizing it. I >>>> think I may have gone through that phase myself at one point. >>> >>> Well I think that's because the forth they learn about is the Forth >>> prior to modernizing and standardizing it. I don't know about other >>> people but I found Forth by searching for unique programming languages >>> and started reading things that Mr. Moore and Jeff Fox wrote about. Then >>> I hunted for Forth tutorials with reviews "Starting Forth" had great >>> reviews and a Forth that ran on my Tablet and/or my Raspberry Pi 3, >>> which was Gforth. GForth is not like Mr. Moores Forth, but it kind of >>> reminds me a little of it and so far it has gotten me to Chapter 10 of >>> "Starting Forth", so it works for now. >> >> The part I don't get is how you became such an expert in Forth if you >> haven't even finished reading "Starting Forth"? I have to say, I am >> quite impressed. I've read that book as well as a couple of others and >> I still don't consider myself to be an expert. As I mentioned before, I >> went through a phase where I criticized Forth for not being what I >> needed at the time (which was a Forth I could justify to my managers so >> I could buy a commercial version). I grew out of that and it has been a >> steady progress backwards for me. Much like life, as I get more >> experience I learn more about how little I know. Hugh has completed my >> education so I now realize I've not even written a Forth program in my >> life! I'm not sure what to call the code I used to test the thousands >> of boards I've built over the last 10 years or what those things are >> that run on small embedded targets to make them do useful work, but it >> seems none of that was Forth. I've learned so much about how little I >> now know. >> > > Never said I was an expert in Forth and your right I cannot be at the > stage I have progressed too, but I can read and I have been reseaching > Forth, it's creator, his reasons and they are more sound than Paul's > "convenience" and "cheap", and your "what mess?". Also Mr. Moore is not > the only program language creator who is trying to get people to > understand that there are serious issues with the modern software > industry that has been going on for well over 40 years. Also I have > studied over 20 different programming languages over the last 30 years > starting with basic, pascal, C, to Java, Javascript, python, perl, > scheme, common lisp and while I am not an expert in any of them either, > it doesn't take an expert to read the reviews and opinions of both > programmers who praise them and those who condemn them as well as quiet > a bit real experiene learning and programming in them to see things that > are positive about them and things that are negative. The negatives > are quiet striking and a bit scary considering how many people, > companies, governments rely on that software. Also pretty much every > modern programming language (meaning main stream languages) have a bug > list, explaining recorded and resolved issue with their > compilers/interpreters. If you want to go and use google search engine > to see for yourself you will find that ALL modern programming languages > usually have hundreds if not thousands and some have millions of bugs. I'm not sure what it even means to say "ALL modern programming languages usually have hundreds if not thousands and some have millions of bugs." First, your use of the word, "usually" mitigates any responsibility for the rule you stated to apply in any given case where it might be tested. Second, I'm not clear on how a language could have "millions" of bugs. I use VHDL a lot and I don't think the language spec even has a million words in it. So your statement would imply that every word in the spec is a bug!!! That is some pretty incompetent language design. > Now I have an anology for you, Paul and whoever wants to argue the point > further. You are a builder, who has been instructed for build a 3 story > 5 bedroom home for a family 6 in one year. You have a crew of 30 > men/women who work under you. You go and get all of your building > supplies and gather your tools. Each of your tools can have up to 1000 > flaws in it, that could cause them to either not work, work sometimes, > work for a while than just stop suddenly which could cause an injury, > over heat, sometimes use 5 times the power to keep running, parts just > start falling off of it, are not very well protected or safe between > uses or on rare occasion explode. Now the good thing is ever couple of > days or weeks the tool manufacturer comes along and swaps parts of your > tools. Now after they do that sometimes the tool doesn't work at all or > gets a new problem. The instructions for some of your tools are > documented well enough that you can understand them, while others are > not and some of them have no instrucitons at all! > > Now the tools cost you hundreds of dollars since they were produced by > the top tool makers in the world! You have exactly one year to build > this home, no delays, no excuses and if any of your crew are injured > or killed, you cannot replace them. Also you must keep the price of > this home at $250,000.00 and you cannot be over budget or it comes out > of your profits and the wages of your employees. Now what do you think > your chances of building this house on time and in budget with the > tools you have? Good thing I don't build houses and even better that you never build houses I think! -- Rick C
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| From | Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-13 15:59 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <oco3ib$hsk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57092 |
On 4/12/2017 04:54, Darin Murphy wrote: > Now I have an anology for you, Paul and whoever wants to argue the point > further. You are a builder, who has been instructed for build a 3 story > 5 bedroom home for a family 6 in one year. You have a crew of 30 > men/women who work under you. You go and get all of your building > supplies and gather your tools. Each of your tools can have up to 1000 > flaws in it, that could cause them to either not work, work sometimes, > work for a while than just stop suddenly which could cause an injury, > over heat, sometimes use 5 times the power to keep running, parts just > start falling off of it, are not very well protected or safe between > uses or on rare occasion explode. Now the good thing is ever couple of > days or weeks the tool manufacturer comes along and swaps parts of your > tools. Now after they do that sometimes the tool doesn't work at all or > gets a new problem. The instructions for some of your tools are > documented well enough that you can understand them, while others are > not and some of them have no instrucitons at all! > > Now the tools cost you hundreds of dollars since they were produced by > the top tool makers in the world! You have exactly one year to build > this home, no delays, no excuses and if any of your crew are injured > or killed, you cannot replace them. Also you must keep the price of > this home at $250,000.00 and you cannot be over budget or it comes out > of your profits and the wages of your employees. Now what do you think > your chances of building this house on time and in budget with the > tools you have? > > Take care now. Goodness, what an enormous strawman argument. The bonfire generated by so much straw in a single post might cause the internet to catch fire. More seriously, this is not how software is built. One example out of this pile of nonsense analogy; "Now the good thing is ever [sic] couple of days or weeks the tool manufacturer comes along and swaps parts of your tools." Only if you're crazy bananas. All the projects I know of producing commercial software fix on a set of tools, at a specific version, on a consistent & managed build platform, at the start of and for the duration of the project. -- Alex
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-13 13:07 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ocob2d$iq9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57238 |
On 4/13/2017 10:59 AM, Alex wrote: > On 4/12/2017 04:54, Darin Murphy wrote: >> Now I have an anology for you, Paul and whoever wants to argue the point >> further. You are a builder, who has been instructed for build a 3 story >> 5 bedroom home for a family 6 in one year. You have a crew of 30 >> men/women who work under you. You go and get all of your building >> supplies and gather your tools. Each of your tools can have up to 1000 >> flaws in it, that could cause them to either not work, work sometimes, >> work for a while than just stop suddenly which could cause an injury, >> over heat, sometimes use 5 times the power to keep running, parts just >> start falling off of it, are not very well protected or safe between >> uses or on rare occasion explode. Now the good thing is ever couple of >> days or weeks the tool manufacturer comes along and swaps parts of your >> tools. Now after they do that sometimes the tool doesn't work at all or >> gets a new problem. The instructions for some of your tools are >> documented well enough that you can understand them, while others are >> not and some of them have no instrucitons at all! >> >> Now the tools cost you hundreds of dollars since they were produced by >> the top tool makers in the world! You have exactly one year to build >> this home, no delays, no excuses and if any of your crew are injured >> or killed, you cannot replace them. Also you must keep the price of >> this home at $250,000.00 and you cannot be over budget or it comes out >> of your profits and the wages of your employees. Now what do you think >> your chances of building this house on time and in budget with the >> tools you have? >> >> Take care now. > > Goodness, what an enormous strawman argument. The bonfire generated by > so much straw in a single post might cause the internet to catch fire. > > More seriously, this is not how software is built. One example out of > this pile of nonsense analogy; "Now the good thing is ever [sic] couple > of days or weeks the tool manufacturer comes along and swaps parts of > your tools." > > Only if you're crazy bananas. All the projects I know of producing > commercial software fix on a set of tools, at a specific version, on a > consistent & managed build platform, at the start of and for the > duration of the project. In my early days designing FPGAs from HDL I started using tools from vendor Y. We quickly found vendor Y's tools to be completely useless (this was early days for HDL as well) and switched to the Xilinx in-house tools. Progress moved along until Xilinx sent an update which swapped in-house tool A for in-house tool B. Code broke. A lesson learned in a rather painful way. -- Rick C
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| From | Darin Murphy <murphy.darin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-12 03:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <HBhHA.295514$o87.90623@fx21.am4> |
| In reply to | #57057 |
rickman wrote: Oh yeah I forgot to add. So if you do get in built on time and on budget, how stable will it be? Will it pass all the inspections? Will it be safe for the family to live in until the children are grown? Or will it be as buggy, insecure and unsafe as the tools you used to build it with? Just some food for thought!
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| From | Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-08 02:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <3dd36edb-3c46-4eed-9574-f5ee77e72de6@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #56813 |
Just check out Elizabeth's books. They are based on modern Forth.
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| From | Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-08 18:29 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8c35fe70-15f1-413e-a7c9-66af45842067@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #56813 |
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 12:46:27 AM UTC+9, Darin Murphy wrote: > Joel, thanks for taking the time to reply to my post! It's nice to meet > you! > > joel.rees@(something).(something) wrote: > > > On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 1:10:44 AM UTC+9, Darin Murphy wrote: > > I'm an outsider, and I'd noticed the issue about Starting Forth, myself. > > Outsider? Sounds like you've been in Forth for sometime. Not so much time as code. Writing a Forth interpreter is not the same as writing an application in Forth. > Wonder what a > person has to do to become an insider (e.g., write their own forth, > write forth libraries, burn an effigy of Bjarne Stroustrup, etc.,)? > LOL!!! Heh. > > gforth does get about as close as possible, I think. > > Yeah it's gotten me through and up to Chapter 10. Still going over it. I > like taking my time and I have been busy being a caregiver too! Truly, people are more important (and more fun) than machines. > > My impression is that Forth is not a language so much as a point of view and a willingness to manage your own symbol tables, and, as you can tell from the responses, it's a very individual point of view. (Lisp has the same kinds of problems.) This is why it's hard to get a truly standard Forth. > > I think Forth is really the first real Meta-Lanugage in that everything > is a macro built upon primatives, which were built from either > machine code, assembly, or C. Well, Lisp and Forth have the first widely available programming metalanguage compiler/interpreters. But they are not a single language until you specify which (or which standard). > > Which means that not having a Forth that is completely compatible with the Starting Forth book may be an advantage. It gets you used to having to glue things together yourself. > > I really don't buy that. I believe the reason Starting Forth doesn't > match up in many ways any modern Forth has more to do with a larger > problem I've observed in Software in general that is either free or > outside the main stream. That is lack of desire to do the boring work. I have the desire, but I also have to support my family. Somehow, I haven't had many offers for jobs working with Forth, and especially had no offers to be properly finish and document my (sort-of) running near-fig written in C, the fig interpreter I transcribed, the 6809 emulator and assembler I want to build so I can run my near-fig in 6809 assembler, the translation of a fig interpreter to 32 bit ssh3 that I had to leave have done, or the several re-interpretations of a progressive definition language/environment that I have started and not finished. I've thought about going over to Kickstarter and advertising for crowdfunding, but I'm in Japan and that means they can't help me. I should look at other crowdfunding sites again, maybe. > It's fun to build and tinker with your creations, but it's sooo boring > to document and update your documents about said software, so they > don't. Actually, I quite enjoy it, when I can afford to do it. > Once I get enough experience programming in Forth and revisit > Assembly, I'll write a forth that fits the "Starting Forth" book letter > by letter just so that new comings can have their own text for Forth and > the heck with the other Forths out there since they cannot given > maintain their compatability with a book they endorse on their Forth > webpages. That was my intent when I started re-implementing my near-fig, translating it from 6809 assembly language in a Radio Shack Color Computer hardware environment to an (original) ANSI C language and run-time environment. Never quite had the money to get there, and then my spare time was needed for other projects. > > If you're looking for another free-as-in-software Forth that should run on your pi, -- and _iff_ you are willing to compile it yourself -- you might look at one of my little time-wasters. > > Thanks I might do that after I'm finished with studying Forth and > revisiting Assembly (It's been decades since I've work in Assembly, so > it's going to be a bit!). > > > Thanks again for your suggestions and advice! Take care now, > > Darin Murphy I really enjoy assembly language, although modern CPUs are not so much fun any more. Too much second-guessing the programmer to make it easier to construct the common false-optimizations. Joel Rees
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| From | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-09 07:23 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8fcb79fd-d874-472b-852d-f8cd293b5a50@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #56813 |
On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 4:46:27 PM UTC+1, Darin Murphy wrote: > Joel, thanks for taking the time to reply to my post! It's nice to meet > you! > > joel.rees@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 1:10:44 AM UTC+9, Darin Murphy wrote: > > I'm an outsider, and I'd noticed the issue about Starting Forth, myself. > > Outsider? Sounds like you've been in Forth for sometime. Wonder what a > person has to do to become an insider (e.g., write their own forth, > write forth libraries, burn an effigy of Bjarne Stroustrup, etc.,)? > LOL!!! > > > > gforth does get about as close as possible, I think. > > Yeah it's gotten me through and up to Chapter 10. Still going over it. I > like taking my time and I have been busy being a caregiver too! > > > My impression is that Forth is not a language so much as a point of view and a willingness to manage your own symbol tables, and, as you can tell from the responses, it's a very individual point of view. (Lisp has the same kinds of problems.) This is why it's hard to get a truly standard Forth. > > I think Forth is really the first real Meta-Lanugage in that everything > is a macro built upon primatives, which were built from either > machine code, assembly, or C. > > > Which means that not having a Forth that is completely compatible with the Starting Forth book may be an advantage. It gets you used to having to glue things together yourself. > > I really don't buy that. I believe the reason Starting Forth doesn't > match up in many ways any modern Forth has more to do with a larger > problem I've observed in Software in general that is either free or > outside the main stream. That is lack of desire to do the boring work. > It's fun to build and tinker with your creations, but it's sooo boring > to document and update your documents about said software, so they > don't. Once I get enough experience programming in Forth and revisit > Assembly, I'll write a forth that fits the "Starting Forth" book letter > by letter just so that new comings can have their own text for Forth and > the heck with the other Forths out there since they cannot given > maintain their compatability with a book they endorse on their Forth > webpages. > > > > > If you're looking for another free-as-in-software Forth that should run on your pi, -- and _iff_ you are willing to compile it yourself -- you might look at one of my little time-wasters. > > Thanks I might do that after I'm finished with studying Forth and > revisiting Assembly (It's been decades since I've work in Assembly, so > it's going to be a bit!). > > > Thanks again for your suggestions and advice! Take care now, > > Darin Murphy Darin, I went through the same experience. I could not find a tutorial where there wasgood compatibility with an existing Forth - preferably a free one to learn and a commercial version - MPE VFX did the job. I started with Starting Forth, and go back there when needed. And I could not find a tutorial for self study for the level I wanted - until I found Leo Wong's Simple Forth. As I went through it, I used the examples, extended and documented them And the FORTH LITE TUTORIAL was born - compatible with VFX, Swiftforth, gforth and it seems as well some others. A couple of hundred Forth words frightens people off - so I made up the A START WITH FORTH documentation - 35 words are sufficient to do something useful and see how it hangs together. And from there you can jump to Leon's documentation or the Forth LITE Tutorial. Stephen Pelcs book is very good and well documented and in the eBook I added the links where to find the word in the eBook. The 4e4th documentation Dirk did is very good to run on a TI Lauchpad. Tim Hentlass's Real Time Forth is being worked on and should be available April/May - written for F-PC but showing what was done then. There are loads more on the FREE side - but these fitted my requirements in addition to Ting's documentation and he has done a lot of work for Forth - available as eBooks and the code can still be bought from him directly see https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ting_s_electronic_forth_bookshelf . Yes, there are many more, many above the level where I am - so let's see if my opinion changes in a couple of years.
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| From | hughaguilar96@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-09 08:04 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8cc24870-dbeb-48fa-a3a1-4595f9ef1f6b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #56928 |
On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 7:23:07 AM UTC-7, JUERGEN wrote: > Darin, I went through the same experience. I could not find a tutorial where there wasgood compatibility with an existing Forth - preferably a free one to learn and a commercial version - MPE VFX did the job. > I started with Starting Forth, and go back there when needed. > And I could not find a tutorial for self study for the level I wanted - until I found Leo Wong's Simple Forth. > As I went through it, I used the examples, extended and documented them > And the FORTH LITE TUTORIAL was born - compatible with VFX, Swiftforth, gforth and it seems as well some others. > A couple of hundred Forth words frightens people off - so I made up the A START WITH FORTH documentation - 35 words are sufficient to do something useful and see how it hangs together. And from there you can jump to Leon's documentation or the Forth LITE Tutorial. > Stephen Pelcs book is very good and well documented and in the eBook I added the links where to find the word in the eBook. Darin --- you need some background information: Juergen Pintaske works as a salesman for MPE and Stephen Pelc is his boss, which is why he consider's Stephen Pelc's book to be "very good" --- he wrote that Forth LITE Tutorial to help sell VFX --- there is no evidence to indicate that he has ever written any Forth code whatsoever. I'm quite impressed that you have written some code. :-) Almost everybody who gets involved in ANS-Forth promotes themselves to being a teacher without bothering to first learn anything themselves. It is very rare to find an ANS-Forth expert who has ever written a program in ANS-Forth --- not even a simple one such as that ARENA.4TH game that I posted --- so you have already written infinitely more ANS-Forth code than most ANS-Forth experts. My style of teaching is a lot different than everybody else's. I write code that I consider to be of good style and I make it available as an example. My novice-package, in addition to providing tools for writing programs, also provides several example programs ranging from novice-level to intermediate-level. To me, writing programs is the essence of programming --- I don't really understand the point of being involved in programming, and claiming to be an expert, without actually programming --- well, actually, I do: it is called "sales" and they get a commission or at least an ego-boo. A lot of the time, I'm not actually teaching --- I don't really care very much if other people learn or not --- I just write code because programming is a lot of fun (I've been programming in Forth since 1984 and I enjoy doing it). So, keep on writing Forth code! You can learn from my example program, or just develop your own style. Give "Starting Forth" a quick read, but don't waste time typing in the examples and worrying if they are exactly compatible with any ANS-Forth system --- it is not a very good book because, like all Forth Inc. books, it fails to discuss structs or data-structures built at run-time in the heap --- you are better off to write your own programs rather than type in code snippets written by Charles Moore in the 1970s on a computer that had so little RAM that it couldn't support a heap.
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| From | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-04-09 23:23 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <629cfadd-333b-4ca3-b965-30379354e1f1@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #56933 |
On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 4:04:49 PM UTC+1, hughag...@gmail.com wrote: > On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 7:23:07 AM UTC-7, JUERGEN wrote: > > Darin, I went through the same experience. I could not find a tutorial where there wasgood compatibility with an existing Forth - preferably a free one to learn and a commercial version - MPE VFX did the job. > > I started with Starting Forth, and go back there when needed. > > And I could not find a tutorial for self study for the level I wanted - until I found Leo Wong's Simple Forth. > > As I went through it, I used the examples, extended and documented them > > And the FORTH LITE TUTORIAL was born - compatible with VFX, Swiftforth, gforth and it seems as well some others. > > A couple of hundred Forth words frightens people off - so I made up the A START WITH FORTH documentation - 35 words are sufficient to do something useful and see how it hangs together. And from there you can jump to Leon's documentation or the Forth LITE Tutorial. > > Stephen Pelcs book is very good and well documented and in the eBook I added the links where to find the word in the eBook. > > Darin --- you need some background information: > Juergen Pintaske works as a salesman for MPE and Stephen Pelc is his boss, which is why he consider's Stephen Pelc's book to be "very good" --- he wrote that Forth LITE Tutorial to help sell VFX --- there is no evidence to indicate that he has ever written any Forth code whatsoever. > > I'm quite impressed that you have written some code. :-) Almost everybody who gets involved in ANS-Forth promotes themselves to being a teacher without bothering to first learn anything themselves. It is very rare to find an ANS-Forth expert who has ever written a program in ANS-Forth --- not even a simple one such as that ARENA.4TH game that I posted --- so you have already written infinitely more ANS-Forth code than most ANS-Forth experts. > > My style of teaching is a lot different than everybody else's. I write code that I consider to be of good style and I make it available as an example. My novice-package, in addition to providing tools for writing programs, also provides several example programs ranging from novice-level to intermediate-level. To me, writing programs is the essence of programming --- I don't really understand the point of being involved in programming, and claiming to be an expert, without actually programming --- well, actually, I do: it is called "sales" and they get a commission or at least an ego-boo. > > A lot of the time, I'm not actually teaching --- I don't really care very much if other people learn or not --- I just write code because programming is a lot of fun (I've been programming in Forth since 1984 and I enjoy doing it). > > So, keep on writing Forth code! You can learn from my example program, or just develop your own style. Give "Starting Forth" a quick read, but don't waste time typing in the examples and worrying if they are exactly compatible with any ANS-Forth system --- it is not a very good book because, like all Forth Inc. books, it fails to discuss structs or data-structures built at run-time in the heap --- you are better off to write your own programs rather than type in code snippets written by Charles Moore in the 1970s on a computer that had so little RAM that it couldn't support a heap. HATE CRIME AGAIN ON CLF - Hugh Aguilar Typical Excrements - The Biggest Forth Killer Has Spoken Again. The same Bullshit as usual. He does not have a clue about the context but pees again all over the community.
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