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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #53228 > unrolled thread

Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set

Started byNathan Schulzke <nschulzke@gmail.com>
First post2016-12-09 09:25 -0800
Last post2017-01-07 15:37 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 171 — 22 participants

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  Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Nathan Schulzke <nschulzke@gmail.com> - 2016-12-09 09:25 -0800
    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Nathan Schulzke <nschulzke@gmail.com> - 2016-12-09 09:30 -0800
      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-12-09 10:23 -0800
        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Nathan Schulzke <nschulzke@gmail.com> - 2016-12-09 16:37 -0800
          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-09 17:01 -0800
            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Nathan Schulzke <nschulzke@gmail.com> - 2016-12-10 09:07 -0800
            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-01-01 21:40 -0500
              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-01 21:06 -1000
                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-01-03 17:22 -0800
                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-01-04 10:09 +0100
                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set john <anon@example.com> - 2017-01-04 11:59 +0000
                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-04 10:56 -0800
                        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-04 23:58 +0100
                          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-01-04 20:06 -0800
                            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-05 04:12 -0600
                              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-05 12:43 +0100
                                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-05 16:38 +0000
                                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-05 19:17 +0100
                                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-05 18:26 +0000
                                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-06 01:56 +0100
                                        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-07 15:53 +0000
                                          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-07 18:20 +0100
                                            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-08 16:33 +0000
                                              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-08 20:02 +0100
                                                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-09 17:53 +0000
                                                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-09 20:22 +0100
                                              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set minforth@arcor.de - 2017-01-09 08:04 -0800
                                                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-09 17:04 +0000
                                                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-09 20:22 +0100
                                                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-10 01:41 +0100
                                                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set minforth@arcor.de - 2017-01-09 22:16 -0800
                                                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-10 09:44 +0000
                                                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-10 15:19 +0100
                                                        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-10 15:24 +0000
                                                          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-10 15:35 +0000
                                                          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-10 22:12 +0100
                                                            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-10 22:42 +0000
                                                              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-11 00:23 +0100
                                                                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-10 23:35 +0000
                                                                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set minforth@arcor.de - 2017-01-10 23:38 -0800
                                                                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-11 10:32 +0000
                                                                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-11 12:52 +0100
                                                                        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-11 13:23 +0000
                                                                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set minforth@arcor.de - 2017-01-11 06:08 -0800
                                                                        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-11 14:39 +0000
                                                          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2017-01-11 23:00 -0800
                                                            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-12 13:55 +0000
                                                              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-12 14:06 +0000
                                                                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2017-01-13 06:29 -0800
                                                                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-13 14:52 +0000
                                                                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-14 12:23 +0000
                                                              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-12 15:47 +0100
                                                                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-12 15:09 +0000
                                                                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-12 20:23 +0100
                                                                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-12 21:21 +0000
                                                                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-13 03:45 +0100
                                                                        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-13 02:55 -0600
                                                                        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-13 14:29 +0000
                                                                          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2017-01-13 16:11 +0100
                                                                          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-13 17:26 +0100
                                                                            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-13 17:27 +0100
                                                                            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-13 17:01 +0000
                                                                            nt=xt? (was: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-14 15:35 +0000
                                                                              Re: nt=xt? (was: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set) stephen@mpeforth.com - 2017-01-14 13:58 -0800
                                                                                Re: nt=xt? (was: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-14 14:52 -0800
                                                                                Re: nt=xt? (was: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-15 14:00 +0000
                                                                                  Re: nt=xt? (was: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set) albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-15 16:51 +0100
                                                                                    Re: nt=xt? (was: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-15 16:04 +0000
                                                                                  Re: nt=xt? (was: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-15 13:47 -0800
                                                                        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-14 12:39 +0000
                                                                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-01-12 22:14 -0800
                                                            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-14 13:45 +0000
                                                              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2017-01-14 08:51 -0800
                                                                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set minforth@arcor.de - 2017-01-14 09:23 -0800
                                                                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-14 18:02 +0000
                                                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2017-01-09 23:42 -0800
                                                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-10 09:36 +0000
                                                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2017-01-10 03:55 -0800
                                                        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-10 13:40 +0000
                                                          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2017-01-10 06:40 -0800
                            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-05 12:45 +0100
                          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 08:19 -0800
                            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-06 17:57 +0100
                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set mhx@iae.nl - 2017-01-08 01:34 -0800
                        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set john <anon@example.com> - 2017-01-08 17:08 +0000
              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-02 16:49 +0000
      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-09 14:52 -0800
      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-09 14:56 -0800
    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2016-12-23 13:13 -0800
    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set minforth@arcor.de - 2017-01-06 06:58 -0800
      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-06 09:32 -0600
        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set minforth@arcor.de - 2017-01-06 09:11 -0800
          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-06 12:41 -0600
            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-06 21:31 -1000
              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-07 13:28 -0800
                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-01-07 23:00 +0100
                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-07 14:37 -0800
                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-08 00:06 +0100
                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-07 18:50 -0800
                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-08 14:28 +0100
                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-08 19:34 -0800
                        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-09 06:27 +0100
                          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-10 00:08 -0800
                            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-10 10:01 +0000
                            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-10 13:12 +0100
                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set stephen@mpeforth.com - 2017-01-08 07:23 -0800
                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-08 19:41 -0800
                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-09 17:41 +0000
                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-07 18:56 -1000
            TO implementation (was: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-07 14:02 +0000
              Re: TO implementation Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-07 10:51 -0600
                Re: TO implementation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-08 15:27 +0000
                  Re: TO implementation Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-08 13:36 -0600
                    Re: TO implementation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-09 18:20 +0000
                      Re: TO implementation Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-10 03:56 -0600
                        Re: TO implementation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-15 15:15 +0000
                          Re: TO implementation Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-15 13:34 -0600
                            Re: TO implementation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-15 14:04 -0800
                              Re: TO implementation stephen@mpeforth.com - 2017-01-15 14:24 -0800
                                Re: TO implementation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-15 15:42 -0800
                                Re: TO implementation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-15 15:56 -0800
                                  Re: TO implementation awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-16 14:25 +0100
                                    Re: TO implementation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-16 11:30 -0800
                                      Re: TO implementation awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-17 02:00 +0100
                                        Re: TO implementation albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-17 12:59 +0100
                                          Re: TO implementation awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-17 14:38 +0100
                                          Re: TO implementation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-17 15:47 +0000
                                            Re: TO implementation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-17 10:24 -0800
                                      Re: TO implementation hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-16 17:02 -0800
                                        Re: TO implementation awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-17 06:00 +0100
                            Re: TO implementation Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-01-15 22:19 -0500
                              Re: TO implementation Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-16 08:57 -0600
                              Re: TO implementation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-19 11:26 +0000
                                Re: TO implementation Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-01-19 20:49 -0500
                                  Re: TO implementation minforth@arcor.de - 2017-01-20 00:27 -0800
                                    Re: TO implementation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-20 12:20 +0000
                                      Re: TO implementation Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-01-26 22:42 -0500
                                        Re: TO implementation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-27 08:33 +0000
                                      Re: TO implementation minforth@arcor.de - 2017-01-27 03:59 -0800
                            Re: TO implementation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-19 11:40 +0000
                              Re: TO implementation Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-19 05:55 -0600
                                Re: TO implementation anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-19 14:46 +0000
                                  Re: TO implementation Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-19 11:03 -0600
          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-06 20:22 +0100
            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-07 03:54 -0600
            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-07 13:51 +0000
              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-07 18:50 +0100
                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set mhx@iae.nl - 2017-01-08 02:05 -0800
      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-06 17:41 +0100
        Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set minforth@arcor.de - 2017-01-06 09:15 -0800
          Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-06 18:40 +0100
            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-06 20:25 +0100
              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-07 14:55 +0100
                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-07 18:55 +0100
                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-07 19:10 +0100
                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-08 01:25 +0100
                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-08 02:17 +0100
              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set mhx@iae.nl - 2017-01-08 01:53 -0800
                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-08 17:03 +0100
                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-01-08 17:51 +0100
                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-08 18:30 +0100
                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-01-08 10:51 -0800
                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-08 20:06 +0100
            Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-07 15:31 +0000
              Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-07 18:20 +0100
                Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-07 18:56 +0100
                  Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-07 19:10 +0100
                    Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-08 01:26 +0100
                      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-08 02:06 +0100
      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-06 17:23 -0800
      Re: Ideal Stack Machine Instruction Set anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-07 15:37 +0000

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#54161 — Re: TO implementation

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2017-01-19 05:55 -0600
SubjectRe: TO implementation
Message-ID<oOKdnZp0RLvSNB3FnZ2dnUU7-e2dnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#54160
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>> So what's the point of your implementation approach?
>>
>>The assertion was that TO requires parsing.  My counter-assertion is
>>that it doesn't.  That is all.  It doesn't require parsing for basic
>>functionality, and it doesn't require parsing for performance.
> 
> The question is if the cure is not worse than the disease. 

That's a question.  It's not the question that was being discussed.

> For performance it certainly looks to me like it is.

But you haven't said why: all you have said is that the implementation
looks complex.  The generated code would be the same.  Unless this is
some odd quibble about compile-time performance, of course...

Andrew.

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#54168 — Re: TO implementation

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2017-01-19 14:46 +0000
SubjectRe: TO implementation
Message-ID<2017Jan19.154639@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#54161
Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>>> So what's the point of your implementation approach?
>>>
>>>The assertion was that TO requires parsing.  My counter-assertion is
>>>that it doesn't.  That is all.  It doesn't require parsing for basic
>>>functionality, and it doesn't require parsing for performance.
>> 
>> The question is if the cure is not worse than the disease. 
>
>That's a question.  It's not the question that was being discussed.

Maybe you did not.  I did.  And if this implementation approach is
worse, why should anybody be interested in it?

>> For performance it certainly looks to me like it is.
>
>But you haven't said why: all you have said is that the implementation
>looks complex.  The generated code would be the same.  Unless this is
>some odd quibble about compile-time performance, of course...

Because the performance issue either gives worse performance, or
fragile behaviour.  Consider:

5 value x
: -> to ;
7 -> x
x . \ prints 7

So, Y appears to behave like an alias of X.

: foo -> x ;
3 foo y .

The X in FOO can be compiled as checking the flag, then you have the
right behaviour, but worse performance; or you can assume that the
flag is not set, then FOO does not behave like the interpreted -> X.
Or -> is inlined, and the compiler can see TO X and optimize it, and
it behaves as expected; until someone turns off the inliner to deal
with some other issue.

You may argue that this usage is not allowed, but as somebody else has
pointed out, that does not stop Forth programmers (nor does it stop
programmers of other languages).

Why do we want to get rid of a parsing TO?  Because the STATE-smart
parsing implementation is fragile, and the robust implementation
approach has an additional cost that many Forthers are reluctant to
pay for just a few words (they prefer to argue, for two decades now,
over whether the robustness is necessary).  If your approach gets rid
of parsing, but not of fragility or implementation cost, it has
nothing to offer.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/

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#54174 — Re: TO implementation

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2017-01-19 11:03 -0600
SubjectRe: TO implementation
Message-ID<KeOdneBQX_zlbB3FnZ2dnUU7-cnNnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#54168
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>>>> So what's the point of your implementation approach?
>>>>
>>>>The assertion was that TO requires parsing.  My counter-assertion is
>>>>that it doesn't.  That is all.  It doesn't require parsing for basic
>>>>functionality, and it doesn't require parsing for performance.
>>> 
>>> The question is if the cure is not worse than the disease. 
>>
>>That's a question.  It's not the question that was being discussed.
> 
> Maybe you did not.  I did.  And if this implementation approach is
> worse, why should anybody be interested in it?

The question which arose was whether TO needs to parse.  The answer is
"no".  I didn't ask the question.

>>> For performance it certainly looks to me like it is.
>>
>>But you haven't said why: all you have said is that the implementation
>>looks complex.  The generated code would be the same.  Unless this is
>>some odd quibble about compile-time performance, of course...
> 
> Because the performance issue either gives worse performance, or
> fragile behaviour.  Consider:
> 
> 5 value x
> : -> to ;
> 7 -> x
> x . \ prints 7
> 
> So, Y appears to behave like an alias of X.

Isn't this incorrect code?  User error, surely.  Any ocurrence of TO
has to be followed by a value or a local, or similar.

> You may argue that this usage is not allowed,

I do argue precisely that.

> but as somebody else has pointed out, that does not stop Forth
> programmers (nor does it stop programmers of other languages).

So what?  We already know that it's possible to write many things in
Forths that might work on one system but not others.

> Why do we want to get rid of a parsing TO?

It means there's one fewer word which requires magic (or, worse,
STATE-smartness) to implement its interpretation and compilation
semantics.  From an implementation point of view a simple flag-setting
non-optimizing version of TO is easy.  This approach, then, has two
virtues: it's very easy in the case of a simple interpreter and not
too awful in the case of an optimizing compiler.

Andrew.

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#53789

Fromalbert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date2017-01-06 20:22 +0100
Message-ID<o4oqq6$5p8$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#53785
In article <a14a63ff-378c-4440-9fa3-b8c9862251b0@googlegroups.com>,
 <minforth@arcor.de> wrote:
>Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2017 16:32:59 UTC+1 schrieb Andrew Haley:
>> minforth@arcor.de wrote:
>> >
>> > It's the same old story ad nauseam, to repair Forth's traditional
>> > compiler directives. And it is getting worse with each invention of
>> > new overloadings of TO. Already TO is overloaded 4 times: singles,
>> > doubles, floats and locals. Overloading cries for boxed values and
>> > OO, but....
>> >
>> > What should FIND TO return then? Forbidding it is a very poor excuse
>> > IMO.
>>
>> TO could be implemented with no special compilation semantics at all.
>>
>> The original implementation set a flag which was read and cleared by
>> the next child of VALUE.  Today's optimizing compilers are quite
>> capable of turning that into a simple stored, so there's no reason for
>> TO to be overloaded at all: it's just a word.
>>
>> Andrew.
>
>How so ??
>It must be some IMMEDIATE version then, and NOT state-smart!

TO is interesting. The standards demands that it parses.
In my book that means that it is IMMEDIATE.

A long time ago I won the discussion about whether it is possible to
have a standard program that decides whether TO parses or not.
There is none.

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#53802

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2017-01-07 03:54 -0600
Message-ID<Zp-dndBU1PInJ-3FnZ2dnUU7-amdnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#53789
Albert van der Horst <albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> In article <a14a63ff-378c-4440-9fa3-b8c9862251b0@googlegroups.com>,
> <minforth@arcor.de> wrote:
>>Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2017 16:32:59 UTC+1 schrieb Andrew Haley:
> 
> TO is interesting. The standards demands that it parses.
> In my book that means that it is IMMEDIATE.
> 
> A long time ago I won the discussion about whether it is possible to
> have a standard program that decides whether TO parses or not.
> There is none.

I think that may be so, but in that case we should look at improving
the standard.  The only reason for that restriction AFAICR was to do
with what happens when you have a TO at the end of a line of Foth
source.  It's important to be able to have a user-written text
interpreter that works.

Andrew.

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#53808

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2017-01-07 13:51 +0000
Message-ID<2017Jan7.145111@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#53789
albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
>TO is interesting. The standards demands that it parses.
...
>A long time ago I won the discussion about whether it is possible to
>have a standard program that decides whether TO parses or not.
>There is none.

I.e., the standard does not require that a standard-compliant TO
parses.  In Forth-2012 the rationale of TO expands on this as follows:

|Some implementations of TO do not parse; instead they set a mode flag
|that is tested by the subsequent execution of name. Standard programs
|must use TO as if it parses. Therefore TO and name must be contiguous
|and on the same line in the source text.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/

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#53816

Fromalbert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date2017-01-07 18:50 +0100
Message-ID<o4r9p4$do2$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#53808
In article <2017Jan7.145111@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
>>TO is interesting. The standards demands that it parses.
>...
>>A long time ago I won the discussion about whether it is possible to
>>have a standard program that decides whether TO parses or not.
>>There is none.
>
>I.e., the standard does not require that a standard-compliant TO
>parses.  In Forth-2012 the rationale of TO expands on this as follows:
>
>|Some implementations of TO do not parse; instead they set a mode flag
>|that is tested by the subsequent execution of name. Standard programs
>|must use TO as if it parses. Therefore TO and name must be contiguous
>|and on the same line in the source text.

Much better.

Marcel had array-values with indices as normal values
requiring
AAP  TO (( INDEX )) ARRAY

That is not contiguous and has become non-standard.
It must be
AAP INDEX TO ARRAY

(It is left as an exercise for the reader to find out why
   AAP TO INDEX ARRAY
fails when INDEX is a VALUE. )

>
>- anton

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#53849

Frommhx@iae.nl
Date2017-01-08 02:05 -0800
Message-ID<de0cbe32-c76a-429c-8234-8fd4c2bf5d94@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#53816
On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 6:40:02 PM UTC+1, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> In article <2017Jan7.145111@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
> Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> >albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
> >>TO is interesting. The standards demands that it parses.
> >...
> >>A long time ago I won the discussion about whether it is possible to
> >>have a standard program that decides whether TO parses or not.
> >>There is none.
> >
> >I.e., the standard does not require that a standard-compliant TO
> >parses.  In Forth-2012 the rationale of TO expands on this as follows:
> >
> >|Some implementations of TO do not parse; instead they set a mode flag
> >|that is tested by the subsequent execution of name. Standard programs
> >|must use TO as if it parses. Therefore TO and name must be contiguous
> >|and on the same line in the source text.
>
> Much better.
>
> Marcel had array-values with indices as normal values
> requiring
> AAP  TO (( INDEX )) ARRAY
>
> That is not contiguous and has become non-standard.
> It must be
> AAP INDEX TO ARRAY
>
> (It is left as an exercise for the reader to find out why
>    AAP TO INDEX ARRAY
> fails when INDEX is a VALUE. )

It is only difficult because you focus on the how.

An ordinary Forth user wants TO to send AAP to ARRAY,
not to INDEX, so obviously s/he needs to skip INDEX with
the (( )) .

When you know how this is *done* you use  AAP many_words
TO  many_other_words (( load_some_files INDEX
format_hard_disk )) ARRAY and win the obfuscated Forth
contest :-)

-marcel

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#53783

Fromawegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel)
Date2017-01-06 17:41 +0100
Message-ID<1mzfuip.1uycbxyuvldczN%awegel@arcor.de>
In reply to#53779
<minforth@arcor.de> wrote:

> It's the same old story ad nauseam, to repair Forth's traditional compiler
> directives. And it is getting worse with each invention of new overloadings
> of TO. Already TO is overloaded 4 times: singles, doubles, floats and locals.
> Overloading cries for boxed values and OO, but....

I had TO, 2TO, FTO, and no locals at all. No need to open the can of
overloading (using several words named differently like this is
idiomatic in forth anyway).

I didn't look in forth2012, but in dpans94 TO is only for single cells
(applying to stuff not created by VALUE or local is marked ambiguous).

> What should FIND TO return then?

(You mean: C" TO" FIND .)

Probably FIND should return the xt of TO?
I mean - in a system where TO can be applied to doubles, floats or
locals, TO itself must be smart about this. (?)

> Forbidding it is a very poor excuse IMO.

Well, TO *does* have interpretation semantics, so FINDing it isn't
forbidden in 4.1.2!

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#53786

Fromminforth@arcor.de
Date2017-01-06 09:15 -0800
Message-ID<de97e176-5ca4-4c2c-9dea-38b3f19fe3e1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#53783
Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2017 17:41:31 UTC+1 schrieb Alexander Wegel:
> 
> Well, TO *does* have interpretation semantics, so FINDing it isn't
> forbidden in 4.1.2!

Sure, as long as you have extra headers for each data type you have.
But already in Forth94 TO was overloaded for locals.
You might create your own LTO then ..  ;-)

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#53787

Fromawegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel)
Date2017-01-06 18:40 +0100
Message-ID<1mzg0mg.urzwbs9tluyuN%awegel@arcor.de>
In reply to#53786
<minforth@arcor.de> wrote:

> Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2017 17:41:31 UTC+1 schrieb Alexander Wegel:
> > 
> > Well, TO *does* have interpretation semantics, so FINDing it isn't
> > forbidden in 4.1.2!
> 
> Sure, as long as you have extra headers for each data type you have.

You objected against FINDing it being forbidden, which it isn't.

Using it for doubles or floats on the other hand *is* forbidden (in the
sense that ambiguous=forbidden).

> But already in Forth94 TO was overloaded for locals.
> You might create your own LTO then ..  ;-)

In some system (OFW) i saw, it was similar to that. Storing to locals
was done by a couple of words called {0!}, {1!}, etc. which where
compiled by TO.
After all there can be only a couple of locals (this makes it possible
to encode "TO localx" as a single xt).

In a system where TO is overloaded, it has to figure out what to compile
anyway, so TO itself should be smart enough to handle the code
selection.

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#53790

Fromalbert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date2017-01-06 20:25 +0100
Message-ID<o4oqup$5pv$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#53787
In article <1mzg0mg.urzwbs9tluyuN%awegel@arcor.de>,
Alexander Wegel <awegel@arcor.de> wrote:
><minforth@arcor.de> wrote:
>
>> Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2017 17:41:31 UTC+1 schrieb Alexander Wegel:
>> >
>> > Well, TO *does* have interpretation semantics, so FINDing it isn't
>> > forbidden in 4.1.2!
>>
>> Sure, as long as you have extra headers for each data type you have.
>
>You objected against FINDing it being forbidden, which it isn't.
>
>Using it for doubles or floats on the other hand *is* forbidden (in the
>sense that ambiguous=forbidden).

That is why Marcel Hendrix invented DVALUE's FVALUE's DLOCAL's FLOCAL's
and whatnot.

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#53804

Fromawegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel)
Date2017-01-07 14:55 +0100
Message-ID<1mzg6bv.1dxm3a2vhjc95N%awegel@arcor.de>
In reply to#53790
Albert van der Horst <albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote:

> In article <1mzg0mg.urzwbs9tluyuN%awegel@arcor.de>,
> Alexander Wegel <awegel@arcor.de> wrote:
> ><minforth@arcor.de> wrote:
> >
> >> Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2017 17:41:31 UTC+1 schrieb Alexander Wegel:
> >> >
> >> > Well, TO *does* have interpretation semantics, so FINDing it isn't
> >> > forbidden in 4.1.2!
> >>
> >> Sure, as long as you have extra headers for each data type you have.
> >
> >You objected against FINDing it being forbidden, which it isn't.
> >
> >Using it for doubles or floats on the other hand *is* forbidden (in the
> >sense that ambiguous=forbidden).
> 
> That is why Marcel Hendrix invented DVALUE's FVALUE's DLOCAL's FLOCAL's
> and whatnot.

Correction: he called it 2VALUE, just as i did.
His take on this seems more elaborate though.

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#53817

Fromalbert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date2017-01-07 18:55 +0100
Message-ID<o4ra28$dpd$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#53804
In article <1mzg6bv.1dxm3a2vhjc95N%awegel@arcor.de>,
Alexander Wegel <awegel@arcor.de> wrote:
>Albert van der Horst <albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>> In article <1mzg0mg.urzwbs9tluyuN%awegel@arcor.de>,
>> Alexander Wegel <awegel@arcor.de> wrote:
>> ><minforth@arcor.de> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2017 17:41:31 UTC+1 schrieb Alexander Wegel:
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, TO *does* have interpretation semantics, so FINDing it isn't
>> >> > forbidden in 4.1.2!
>> >>
>> >> Sure, as long as you have extra headers for each data type you have.
>> >
>> >You objected against FINDing it being forbidden, which it isn't.
>> >
>> >Using it for doubles or floats on the other hand *is* forbidden (in the
>> >sense that ambiguous=forbidden).
>>
>> That is why Marcel Hendrix invented DVALUE's FVALUE's DLOCAL's FLOCAL's
>> and whatnot.
>
>Correction: he called it 2VALUE, just as i did.
>His take on this seems more elaborate though.

You can find DVALUE e.g. in SIEVE.FRT of transputer Forth hccdemo5.zip
(about 1994).

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#53821

Fromawegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel)
Date2017-01-07 19:10 +0100
Message-ID<1mzhwwu.keub4051vwyrN%awegel@arcor.de>
In reply to#53817
Albert van der Horst <albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote:

> >> That is why Marcel Hendrix invented DVALUE's FVALUE's DLOCAL's FLOCAL's
> >> and whatnot.
> >
> >Correction: he called it 2VALUE, just as i did.
> >His take on this seems more elaborate though.
> 
> You can find DVALUE e.g. in SIEVE.FRT of transputer Forth hccdemo5.zip
> (about 1994).

Ok, so he changed the name to 2value in the meantime.

Do you have a link to that demo?

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#53830

Fromalbert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date2017-01-08 01:25 +0100
Message-ID<o4s0tn$g48$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#53821
In article <1mzhwwu.keub4051vwyrN%awegel@arcor.de>,
Alexander Wegel <awegel@arcor.de> wrote:
>Albert van der Horst <albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>> >> That is why Marcel Hendrix invented DVALUE's FVALUE's DLOCAL's FLOCAL's
>> >> and whatnot.
>> >
>> >Correction: he called it 2VALUE, just as i did.
>> >His take on this seems more elaborate though.
>>
>> You can find DVALUE e.g. in SIEVE.FRT of transputer Forth hccdemo5.zip
>> (about 1994).
>
>Ok, so he changed the name to 2value in the meantime.
>
>Do you have a link to that demo?
Go to my page below and download hccdemo6.zip.

You can also get there from the transputer page.

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#53835

Fromawegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel)
Date2017-01-08 02:17 +0100
Message-ID<1mzigzx.1navou67rmh8vN%awegel@arcor.de>
In reply to#53830
Albert van der Horst <albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote:

> In article <1mzhwwu.keub4051vwyrN%awegel@arcor.de>,
> Alexander Wegel <awegel@arcor.de> wrote:
> >Albert van der Horst <albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >
> >> >> That is why Marcel Hendrix invented DVALUE's FVALUE's DLOCAL's FLOCAL's
> >> >> and whatnot.
> >> >
> >> >Correction: he called it 2VALUE, just as i did.
> >> >His take on this seems more elaborate though.
> >>
> >> You can find DVALUE e.g. in SIEVE.FRT of transputer Forth hccdemo5.zip
> >> (about 1994).
> >
> >Ok, so he changed the name to 2value in the meantime.
> >
> >Do you have a link to that demo?
> Go to my page below and download hccdemo6.zip.
> 
> You can also get there from the transputer page.

Ah i already wondered why there's just a demo6. Thanks.

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#53848

Frommhx@iae.nl
Date2017-01-08 01:53 -0800
Message-ID<1871c3c4-bbd9-484c-b27c-9e50c30f855d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#53790
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 8:14:37 PM UTC+1, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> In article <1mzg0mg.urzwbs9tluyuN%awegel@arcor.de>,
> Alexander Wegel <awegel@arcor.de> wrote:
> ><minforth@arcor.de> wrote:
> >
> >> Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2017 17:41:31 UTC+1 schrieb Alexander Wegel:
> >> >
> >> > Well, TO *does* have interpretation semantics, so FINDing it isn't
> >> > forbidden in 4.1.2!
> >>
> >> Sure, as long as you have extra headers for each data type you have.
> >
> >You objected against FINDing it being forbidden, which it isn't.
> >
> >Using it for doubles or floats on the other hand *is* forbidden (in the
> >sense that ambiguous=forbidden).
> 
> That is why Marcel Hendrix invented DVALUE's FVALUE's DLOCAL's FLOCAL's
> and whatnot.

Once you embrace the TO concept (Paul Bartholdi), there is
no reason to stop at VALUE and LOCAL.

iForth has also SFVALUE, DFVALUE (explicit single and double
precision, FVALUE is extended 80-bit), UVALUE ( uninitialized ),
ZVALUE ( complex ) GVALUE ( any type, for XOPG ). The messages
are not limited to TO and +TO -- also FROM, -TO, CLEAR, 
SIZEOF, /OF are most times supported. All these VALUEs
also have a LOCAL pendant.

It is quite easy to write new messages and new value types.
I still remember that I was very annoyed when first confronted
with the TO concept. It helped to write down what I thought was
objectively wrong with it. That they were in FysForth and that
the tForth team had an enthusiastic user also mellowed my
initial outrage.

-marcel

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#53855

Fromawegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel)
Date2017-01-08 17:03 +0100
Message-ID<1mzjdyx.ukjclc1kqckziN%awegel@arcor.de>
In reply to#53848
<mhx@iae.nl> wrote:

> On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 8:14:37 PM UTC+1, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> > In article <1mzg0mg.urzwbs9tluyuN%awegel@arcor.de>,
> > Alexander Wegel <awegel@arcor.de> wrote:
> > ><minforth@arcor.de> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2017 17:41:31 UTC+1 schrieb Alexander Wegel:
> > >> >
> > >> > Well, TO *does* have interpretation semantics, so FINDing it isn't
> > >> > forbidden in 4.1.2!
> > >>
> > >> Sure, as long as you have extra headers for each data type you have.
> > >
> > >You objected against FINDing it being forbidden, which it isn't.
> > >
> > >Using it for doubles or floats on the other hand *is* forbidden (in the
> > >sense that ambiguous=forbidden).
> > 
> > That is why Marcel Hendrix invented DVALUE's FVALUE's DLOCAL's FLOCAL's
> > and whatnot.
> 
> Once you embrace the TO concept (Paul Bartholdi), there is
> no reason to stop at VALUE and LOCAL.

Thanks for the hint - gookling yielded

http://www.forth.org/fd/FD-V01N4.pdf

And behold - it was C.M. who suggested "the TO concept" (pre 1980).

Still learning something.

Interesting - it was supposed to *replace* the fetch and store operators
in order to avoid their pitfalls (and to improve the code clarity and
generated code quality).

It still had its own pitfalls, because still you need to choose the
properly typed arguments and type-specific operators (d+, f+, ..) with
possibility of a mismatch.
Simplistic example:

FVALUE fu
2 TO fu    \ will use a value from f-stack instead of 2

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#53857

FromCoos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com>
Date2017-01-08 17:51 +0100
Message-ID<9ibuhy7dgbmd.17dz5r69a37vy.dlg@40tude.net>
In reply to#53855
Op Sun, 8 Jan 2017 17:03:56 +0100 schreef Alexander Wegel:

> <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
> 
>> On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 8:14:37 PM UTC+1, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>>> In article <1mzg0mg.urzwbs9tluyuN%awegel@arcor.de>,
>>> Alexander Wegel <awegel@arcor.de> wrote:
>>> ><minforth@arcor.de> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2017 17:41:31 UTC+1 schrieb Alexander Wegel:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Well, TO *does* have interpretation semantics, so FINDing it isn't
>>> >> > forbidden in 4.1.2!
>>> >>
>>> >> Sure, as long as you have extra headers for each data type you have.
>>> >
>>> >You objected against FINDing it being forbidden, which it isn't.
>>> >
>>> >Using it for doubles or floats on the other hand *is* forbidden (in the
>>> >sense that ambiguous=forbidden).
>>> 
>>> That is why Marcel Hendrix invented DVALUE's FVALUE's DLOCAL's FLOCAL's
>>> and whatnot.
>> 
>> Once you embrace the TO concept (Paul Bartholdi), there is
>> no reason to stop at VALUE and LOCAL.
> 
> Thanks for the hint - gookling yielded
> 
> http://www.forth.org/fd/FD-V01N4.pdf
> 
> And behold - it was C.M. who suggested "the TO concept" (pre 1980).
> 
> Still learning something.
> 
> Interesting - it was supposed to *replace* the fetch and store operators
> in order to avoid their pitfalls (and to improve the code clarity and
> generated code quality).
> 
> It still had its own pitfalls, because still you need to choose the
> properly typed arguments and type-specific operators (d+, f+, ..) with
> possibility of a mismatch.
> Simplistic example:
> 
> FVALUE fu
> 2 TO fu    \ will use a value from f-stack instead of 2

Nothing different from:

FVARIABLE foo
2 foo f!

In both cases you have to write '2e' or '2e0' instead of '2'.

groet Coos

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