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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #54673 > unrolled thread

Really?

Started byMark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com>
First post2017-02-06 06:46 -0800
Last post2017-02-09 17:22 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 100 — 19 participants

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Contents

  Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 06:46 -0800
    Re: Really? foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-02-06 07:20 -0800
    Re: Really? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 08:58 -0800
    Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:06 -0500
    Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-06 11:25 -0800
    Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-07 11:45 +1100
    Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-06 15:38 -1000
      Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 09:50 -0800
    Re: Really? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-02-06 23:39 -0500
      Re: Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 08:04 -0800
      Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-08 11:04 +1100
        Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:42 -0800
          Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-08 20:12 +1100
            Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 02:44 -0800
            Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-08 17:48 +0000
              Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-08 18:43 +0000
                Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 15:24 -0800
              Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 16:26 -0800
      Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 22:45 -0800
        Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:50 -0800
      Re: Really? clozaga@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 21:03 -0800
        Re: Really? clozaga@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 21:04 -0800
        Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 20:01 -0800
          Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-12 16:26 +0000
            Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 16:52 -0800
              Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 09:49 +0000
                Re: Really? minforth@arcor.de - 2017-02-13 07:03 -0800
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-13 13:41 -0800
                  Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 22:32 +0000
                    Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-15 11:42 -0800
                      Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-15 20:41 +0000
                        Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-17 09:42 -0800
                          Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-17 22:22 +0000
            Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-12 19:24 -1000
              Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 08:49 +0000
    Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 11:01 +0000
      Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 03:06 -0800
        Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 09:35 -0800
        Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-07 17:35 +0000
          Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:24 -0800
            Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-09 08:57 +0000
              Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-09 13:24 +0100
                Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-11 15:32 +0000
        Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 20:42 +0000
          Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-07 13:58 -1000
            Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 21:51 -0800
              Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 01:47 -0500
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:52 -0800
                  Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 03:34 -0500
                    Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-08 13:43 +0000
                      Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-08 15:39 -1000
                        Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 22:39 -0800
                          Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 08:56 +0000
                            Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 14:36 -0800
                              Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 08:33 +0000
                        Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 09:03 +0000
                          Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-09 10:51 +0100
                            Re: Really? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-02-09 11:54 +0000
                              Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-09 09:30 -1000
                            Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-09 14:14 +0000
                              Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 14:37 +0000
                                Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-09 15:24 +0000
                                  Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-09 12:01 -0800
                                    Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-10 01:09 +0000
                                      Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-09 18:19 -0800
                                        Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-09 16:30 -1000
                                      Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 19:16 -0800
                                        Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-10 16:29 +0000
                                          OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 17:30 +0000
                                            Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 11:46 -0600
                                              Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-02-10 11:54 -0600
                                                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 18:05 +0000
                                              Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 17:55 +0000
                                                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 12:04 -0600
                                                  Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 18:07 +0000
                                                    Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 12:57 -0600
                                                      Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 19:26 +0000
                                                        Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 14:04 -0600
                                                          Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-11 09:35 +0000
                                          Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-10 16:33 -0800
                                      Static type checking (was: Really?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-10 11:07 +0000
                                Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-11 15:16 +0000
                                  Re: Really? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-11 10:20 -0600
                                  Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 19:02 -0800
                              Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-10 17:31 +0100
                    Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-08 15:34 -1000
                Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-07 21:15 -1000
                Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:46 -0800
          Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:47 -0800
            Re: Really? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:52 +0200
      Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 06:29 -0500
        Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 20:47 +0000
          Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:23 -0500
            Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-08 09:47 +0000
              Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 05:13 -0500
                Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-08 11:23 +0000
      Re: Really? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-07 09:49 -0600
    Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 00:30 -0800
      Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-10 10:32 +1100
        Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 17:22 -0800

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#54751

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-02-09 14:37 +0000
Message-ID<o7huog$au5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#54750
On 2/9/2017 14:14, Stephen Pelc wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:51:48 +0100 (CET),
> albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) wrote:
>
>> That's why ( addr len -- fl ) "comments" are harmful. There must be a
>> narrative, (a sequence of proper sentences that are statements, i.e.
>> can be true or false) that tells *everything* one must know about
>> this word (that is not defined in the context of the project already).
>
> Stack comments are essential. People who do not provide a stack
> comment for every word do not work for MPE. However, each word
> *must* also have a description. In MPE world, this is the
>   \ *G What this word does and why.
> comment provided for each word.
>
> In order to write code that is maintainable beyond the time
> frame of the original programmer, his memory and her availability,
> both the stack comment and the description/narrative must be
> present.
>
> Note that this discipline applies to all programming languages.
>
> Stephen
>

Perhaps that needs to be in the standard. If we can parse moustachieod 
locals, surely we can formally parse stack comments.

-- 
Alex

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#54752

Fromstephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc)
Date2017-02-09 15:24 +0000
Message-ID<589c8956.100395863@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#54751
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 14:37:47 +0000, Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> wrote:

>> Stack comments are essential. People who do not provide a stack
>> comment for every word do not work for MPE. However, each word
>> *must* also have a description. In MPE world, this is the
>>   \ *G What this word does and why.
>> comment provided for each word.
>>
>> In order to write code that is maintainable beyond the time
>> frame of the original programmer, his memory and her availability,
>> both the stack comment and the description/narrative must be
>> present.
>>
>> Note that this discipline applies to all programming languages.

>Perhaps that needs to be in the standard. If we can parse moustachieod 
>locals, surely we can formally parse stack comments.

The safety-critical version of DcocGen, DocGen/SC, has formally
parsed stack comments since the year 2000.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#54755

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2017-02-09 12:01 -0800
Message-ID<87r337uoal.fsf@nightsong.com>
In reply to#54752
stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) writes:
> The safety-critical version of DcocGen, DocGen/SC, has formally
> parsed stack comments since the year 2000.

Does it compare the stack comment with the code?

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#54759

Fromstephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc)
Date2017-02-10 01:09 +0000
Message-ID<589d1217.135405467@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#54755
On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 12:01:06 -0800, Paul Rubin
<no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) writes:
>> The safety-critical version of DcocGen, DocGen/SC, has formally
>> parsed stack comments since the year 2000.
>
>Does it compare the stack comment with the code?

No, but if you look carefully on the MPE web site we have asked
for people to provide to such a tool. Many have waved their hands
but none have delivered.

After Brexit, there is now no suitable source of funding for such
a poject. If you want to see the papers, look for EuroForth papers
by Jaanos Poial.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#54762

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2017-02-09 18:19 -0800
Message-ID<87mvduvlcz.fsf@nightsong.com>
In reply to#54759
stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) writes:
>>Does it compare the stack comment with the code?
> No, but if you look carefully on the MPE web site we have asked
> for people to provide to such a tool. Many have waved their hands
> but none have delivered.

Hmm, well there is Strongforth, which never seemed to get much traction.

I have the impression that stack effect bugs aren't that common in Forth
code written by experienced Forthers.  I made a number of them at first,
mostly by saying + when I meant F+ so the addition happened on the wrong
stack, leading to puzzling-at-the-time debugging.  But that's less of an
issue for me now.

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#54763

From"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com>
Date2017-02-09 16:30 -1000
Message-ID<ooWdneMa-fEkuADFnZ2dnUU7-LnNnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#54762
On 2/9/17 4:19 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) writes:
>>> Does it compare the stack comment with the code?
>> No, but if you look carefully on the MPE web site we have asked
>> for people to provide to such a tool. Many have waved their hands
>> but none have delivered.
>
> Hmm, well there is Strongforth, which never seemed to get much traction.
>
> I have the impression that stack effect bugs aren't that common in Forth
> code written by experienced Forthers.  I made a number of them at first,
> mostly by saying + when I meant F+ so the addition happened on the wrong
> stack, leading to puzzling-at-the-time debugging.  But that's less of an
> issue for me now.

The thing is, stack issues are so very easy to test for, that they're 
normally caught very quickly. The trick, of course, is to do modular 
testing.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
Elizabeth R. Conklin
FORTH, Inc.
6080 Center Drive, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA  90045
USA

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#54764

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-02-09 19:16 -0800
Message-ID<d6068841-d384-446f-ad66-4e732d5ac663@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#54759
On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 6:09:45 PM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 12:01:06 -0800, Paul Rubin
> <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
> >stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) writes:
> >> The safety-critical version of DcocGen, DocGen/SC, has formally
> >> parsed stack comments since the year 2000.
> >
> >Does it compare the stack comment with the code?
> 
> No, but if you look carefully on the MPE web site we have asked
> for people to provide to such a tool. Many have waved their hands
> but none have delivered.

I can write code that you are incapable of writing --- I have done this more than once --- you would have to pay me up front though.

> After Brexit, there is now no suitable source of funding for such
> a poject. If you want to see the papers, look for EuroForth papers
> by Jaanos Poial.

You were expecting Germany to pay for it? Why should Germany carry England? 

Anyway, England gets a lot of foreign aid from America --- that should be a suitable source of funding for pretty much anything.

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#54768

Fromstephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc)
Date2017-02-10 16:29 +0000
Message-ID<589de949.190495488@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#54764
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 19:16:44 -0800 (PST), hughaguilar96@gmail.com
wrote:

>> No, but if you look carefully on the MPE web site we have asked
>> for people to provide to such a tool. Many have waved their hands
>> but none have delivered.
>
>I can write code that you are incapable of writing --- I have done
>this more than once --- you would have to pay me up front though.

I have a really nice bridge I can sell you. But I need the money
up front.

>> After Brexit, there is now no suitable source of funding for such
>> a poject. If you want to see the papers, look for EuroForth papers
>> by Jaanos Poial.
>
>You were expecting Germany to pay for it? Why should Germany carry England? 

You don't understand how the EU works. The UK pays into the EU too. 

>Anyway, England gets a lot of foreign aid from America --- that
>should be a suitable source of funding for pretty much anything.

Do tell me the details. On second thoughts, please do not.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#54771 — OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-02-10 17:30 +0000
SubjectOT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid
Message-ID<o7kt7f$3pi$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#54768
On 2/10/2017 16:29, Stephen Pelc wrote:
>> Anyway, England gets a lot of foreign aid from America --- that
>> should be a suitable source of funding for pretty much anything.
> Do tell me the details. On second thoughts, please do not.

The US spends 0.19 percent of GDP on foreign aid; the UK spends 0.71 
percent.

Amazingly, the median %age that US citizens believe they are giving away 
in foreign aid is 25%. If Hugh is typical of his fellows, then he 
overestimates his generosity by a truly gobsmacking factor of 100.

https://www.interaction.org/document/american-public-overestimates-us-foreign-aid

-- 
Alex

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#54772 — Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-02-10 11:46 -0600
SubjectRe: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid
Message-ID<o7ku6e$716$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#54771
On 2/10/2017 11:30 AM, Alex wrote:
> On 2/10/2017 16:29, Stephen Pelc wrote:
>>> Anyway, England gets a lot of foreign aid from America --- that
>>> should be a suitable source of funding for pretty much anything.
>> Do tell me the details. On second thoughts, please do not.
>
> The US spends 0.19 percent of GDP on foreign aid; the UK spends 0.71
> percent.
>
> Amazingly, the median %age that US citizens believe they are giving away
> in foreign aid is 25%. If Hugh is typical of his fellows, then he
> overestimates his generosity by a truly gobsmacking factor of 100.
>
> https://www.interaction.org/document/american-public-overestimates-us-foreign-aid
>
>
.19% of a hell of a lot bigger pie. Still both governments sometimes 
gives free handouts where it's not deserved.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#54773 — Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2017-02-10 11:54 -0600
SubjectRe: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid
Message-ID<asqdnX2oDO7HYwDFnZ2dnUU7-fudnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#54772
Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> wrote:
> On 2/10/2017 11:30 AM, Alex wrote:
>>
>> The US spends 0.19 percent of GDP on foreign aid; the UK spends 0.71
>> percent.
>>
>> Amazingly, the median %age that US citizens believe they are giving away
>> in foreign aid is 25%. If Hugh is typical of his fellows, then he
>> overestimates his generosity by a truly gobsmacking factor of 100.
>>
>> https://www.interaction.org/document/american-public-overestimates-us-foreign-aid
>>
> .19% of a hell of a lot bigger pie.

Only just:

 United States  $31.08 billion
 United Kingdom  $18.70 billion

> Still both governments sometimes gives free handouts where it's not
> deserved.

Good grief.

Andrew.

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#54776 — Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-02-10 18:05 +0000
SubjectRe: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid
Message-ID<o7kva1$bd9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#54773
On 2/10/2017 17:54, Andrew Haley wrote:
> Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> wrote:
>> On 2/10/2017 11:30 AM, Alex wrote:
>>>
>>> The US spends 0.19 percent of GDP on foreign aid; the UK spends 0.71
>>> percent.
>>>
>>> Amazingly, the median %age that US citizens believe they are giving away
>>> in foreign aid is 25%. If Hugh is typical of his fellows, then he
>>> overestimates his generosity by a truly gobsmacking factor of 100.
>>>
>>> https://www.interaction.org/document/american-public-overestimates-us-foreign-aid
>>>
>> .19% of a hell of a lot bigger pie.
>
> Only just:
>
>  United States  $31.08 billion
>  United Kingdom  $18.70 billion

Ah, how a declining exchange rate has murdered that number.

>
>> Still both governments sometimes gives free handouts where it's not
>> deserved.
>
> Good grief.
>
> Andrew.
>


-- 
Alex

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#54774 — Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-02-10 17:55 +0000
SubjectRe: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid
Message-ID<o7kun3$9um$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#54772
On 2/10/2017 17:46, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 2/10/2017 11:30 AM, Alex wrote:
>> On 2/10/2017 16:29, Stephen Pelc wrote:
>>>> Anyway, England gets a lot of foreign aid from America --- that
>>>> should be a suitable source of funding for pretty much anything.
>>> Do tell me the details. On second thoughts, please do not.
>>
>> The US spends 0.19 percent of GDP on foreign aid; the UK spends 0.71
>> percent.
>>
>> Amazingly, the median %age that US citizens believe they are giving away
>> in foreign aid is 25%. If Hugh is typical of his fellows, then he
>> overestimates his generosity by a truly gobsmacking factor of 100.
>>
>> https://www.interaction.org/document/american-public-overestimates-us-foreign-aid
>>
>>
>>
> .19% of a hell of a lot bigger pie. Still both governments sometimes
> gives free handouts where it's not deserved.
>

Not that much bigger. The absolute numbers are US $32.53bn (2014 
figures) vs UK £12.2bn (2015 numbers or around $15.23bn at current 
exchange rates).

-- 
Alex

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#54775 — Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-02-10 12:04 -0600
SubjectRe: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid
Message-ID<o7kv81$biu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#54774
On 2/10/2017 11:55 AM, Alex wrote:
> On 2/10/2017 17:46, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>> On 2/10/2017 11:30 AM, Alex wrote:
>>> On 2/10/2017 16:29, Stephen Pelc wrote:
>>>>> Anyway, England gets a lot of foreign aid from America --- that
>>>>> should be a suitable source of funding for pretty much anything.
>>>> Do tell me the details. On second thoughts, please do not.
>>>
>>> The US spends 0.19 percent of GDP on foreign aid; the UK spends 0.71
>>> percent.
>>>
>>> Amazingly, the median %age that US citizens believe they are giving away
>>> in foreign aid is 25%. If Hugh is typical of his fellows, then he
>>> overestimates his generosity by a truly gobsmacking factor of 100.
>>>
>>> https://www.interaction.org/document/american-public-overestimates-us-foreign-aid
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> .19% of a hell of a lot bigger pie. Still both governments sometimes
>> gives free handouts where it's not deserved.
>>
>
> Not that much bigger. The absolute numbers are US $32.53bn (2014
> figures) vs UK £12.2bn (2015 numbers or around $15.23bn at current
> exchange rates).
>
I would like to have the difference.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#54777 — Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-02-10 18:07 +0000
SubjectRe: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid
Message-ID<o7kvcr$bd9$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#54775
On 2/10/2017 18:04, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 2/10/2017 11:55 AM, Alex wrote:
>> On 2/10/2017 17:46, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>> On 2/10/2017 11:30 AM, Alex wrote:
>>>> On 2/10/2017 16:29, Stephen Pelc wrote:
>>>>>> Anyway, England gets a lot of foreign aid from America --- that
>>>>>> should be a suitable source of funding for pretty much anything.
>>>>> Do tell me the details. On second thoughts, please do not.
>>>>
>>>> The US spends 0.19 percent of GDP on foreign aid; the UK spends 0.71
>>>> percent.
>>>>
>>>> Amazingly, the median %age that US citizens believe they are giving
>>>> away
>>>> in foreign aid is 25%. If Hugh is typical of his fellows, then he
>>>> overestimates his generosity by a truly gobsmacking factor of 100.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.interaction.org/document/american-public-overestimates-us-foreign-aid
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> .19% of a hell of a lot bigger pie. Still both governments sometimes
>>> gives free handouts where it's not deserved.
>>>
>>
>> Not that much bigger. The absolute numbers are US $32.53bn (2014
>> figures) vs UK £12.2bn (2015 numbers or around $15.23bn at current
>> exchange rates).
>>
> I would like to have the difference.
>

Do you deserve a free handout?

-- 
Alex

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#54779 — Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-02-10 12:57 -0600
SubjectRe: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid
Message-ID<o7l2bb$oq7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#54777
On 2/10/2017 12:07 PM, Alex wrote:
> On 2/10/2017 18:04, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>> On 2/10/2017 11:55 AM, Alex wrote:
>>> On 2/10/2017 17:46, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>> On 2/10/2017 11:30 AM, Alex wrote:
>>>>> On 2/10/2017 16:29, Stephen Pelc wrote:
>>>>>>> Anyway, England gets a lot of foreign aid from America --- that
>>>>>>> should be a suitable source of funding for pretty much anything.
>>>>>> Do tell me the details. On second thoughts, please do not.
>>>>>
>>>>> The US spends 0.19 percent of GDP on foreign aid; the UK spends 0.71
>>>>> percent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Amazingly, the median %age that US citizens believe they are giving
>>>>> away
>>>>> in foreign aid is 25%. If Hugh is typical of his fellows, then he
>>>>> overestimates his generosity by a truly gobsmacking factor of 100.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.interaction.org/document/american-public-overestimates-us-foreign-aid
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> .19% of a hell of a lot bigger pie. Still both governments sometimes
>>>> gives free handouts where it's not deserved.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not that much bigger. The absolute numbers are US $32.53bn (2014
>>> figures) vs UK £12.2bn (2015 numbers or around $15.23bn at current
>>> exchange rates).
>>>
>> I would like to have the difference.
>>
>
> Do you deserve a free handout?
>
More than some of the persons that get it and don't deserve it at all.

That figure does not count I believe all the military aid give to 
countries, the US spent about 1 trillion dollars in Iraq an not all on 
blowing things up.


-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#54781 — Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-02-10 19:26 +0000
SubjectRe: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid
Message-ID<o7l41j$vhp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#54779
On 2/10/2017 18:57, Cecil Bayona wrote:

>>>
>>
>> Do you deserve a free handout?
>>
> More than some of the persons that get it and don't deserve it at all.

I see. Who?

>
> That figure does not count I believe all the military aid give to
> countries, the US spent about 1 trillion dollars in Iraq an not all on
> blowing things up.
>
>

Complete bollox. See "Iraq Aid Over Time" 
http://us-foreign-aid.insidegov.com/l/82/Iraq

-- 
Alex

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#54783 — Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-02-10 14:04 -0600
SubjectRe: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid
Message-ID<o7l684$8cp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#54781
On 2/10/2017 1:26 PM, Alex wrote:
> On 2/10/2017 18:57, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Do you deserve a free handout?
>>>
>> More than some of the persons that get it and don't deserve it at all.
>
> I see. Who?
>
>>
>> That figure does not count I believe all the military aid give to
>> countries, the US spent about 1 trillion dollars in Iraq an not all on
>> blowing things up.
>>
>>
>
> Complete bollox. See "Iraq Aid Over Time"
> http://us-foreign-aid.insidegov.com/l/82/Iraq
>
That does not include military aid, equipment provided and such. But I 
see that this is turning nasty so bye.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#54788 — Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid

FromAlex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Date2017-02-11 09:35 +0000
SubjectRe: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid
Message-ID<o7mlq9$721$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#54783
On 2/10/2017 20:04, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 2/10/2017 1:26 PM, Alex wrote:
>> On 2/10/2017 18:57, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you deserve a free handout?
>>>>
>>> More than some of the persons that get it and don't deserve it at all.
>>
>> I see. Who?
>>
>>>
>>> That figure does not count I believe all the military aid give to
>>> countries, the US spent about 1 trillion dollars in Iraq an not all on
>>> blowing things up.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Complete bollox. See "Iraq Aid Over Time"
>> http://us-foreign-aid.insidegov.com/l/82/Iraq
>>
> That does not include military aid, equipment provided and such. But I
> see that this is turning nasty so bye.
>

Why would a robust rejection of unsourced and frankly fantastic figures 
be considered nasty?

Click the "Military" button on that link and guess what. It shows the 
military aid. What is the source of your figures, since these are 
official Congress data?

-- 
Alex

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#54784

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-02-10 16:33 -0800
Message-ID<803b9249-07da-46ae-b1ef-707008f63277@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#54768
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 9:29:11 AM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 19:16:44 -0800 (PST), hughaguilar96@gmail.com
> wrote:
> 
> >> No, but if you look carefully on the MPE web site we have asked
> >> for people to provide to such a tool. Many have waved their hands
> >> but none have delivered.
> >
> >I can write code that you are incapable of writing --- I have done
> >this more than once --- you would have to pay me up front though.
> 
> I have a really nice bridge I can sell you. But I need the money
> up front.

You have told me multiple times that my code is crap and that I'm a bad Forth programmer. 

There is no way that I would write code for you on the expectation that you will pay me afterward --- you are not going to pay me --- you are going to say that my code is crap and that I'm a bad Forth programmer.

Elizabeth Rather appointed you to the Forth-200x committee --- now you have to say that my code is crap and that I'm a bad Forth programmer --- to do otherwise would contradict everything that the ANS-Forth cult believes in and holds sacred.

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