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Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer?

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  Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Manuel Rodriguez <aa5@gmx.net> - 2016-10-16 05:30 -0700
    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-16 15:05 +0200
      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Manuel Rodriguez <aa5@gmx.net> - 2016-10-16 06:44 -0700
        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-16 18:34 +0200
        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-16 14:17 -0700
      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-10-16 09:58 -0700
      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-10-16 17:16 -0400
        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-17 01:13 +0000
          Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-16 19:36 -0700
          Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-17 17:23 -0700
            Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 20:49 -0400
              Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 21:38 -0700
                Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 05:31 -0700
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 18:34 -0700
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-20 19:18 -0400
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-20 18:53 -0500
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-20 19:17 -0700
                      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 04:58 -0700
                        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-23 11:18 -0500
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-10-27 19:14 -0400
              Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-18 01:11 -0700
                Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 05:15 -0400
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 11:02 -0700
                Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-18 08:08 -0700
            Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 21:37 -0700
              Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 05:30 -0700
                Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 18:33 -0700
                Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-10-19 04:03 -0400
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-20 19:16 -0700
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-21 17:36 -0700
                      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-22 22:06 -0700
                        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-22 23:04 -0700
                          Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-23 01:11 -0700
                        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-23 12:36 +0100
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 04:55 -0700
                      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 17:32 +0200
                        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-23 11:19 -0500
                          Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-23 15:41 -0700
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-11-05 00:48 +0000
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-04 19:37 -0700
                Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? dunno <dunno@dunno.dunno> - 2016-10-19 22:13 +0000
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-19 13:49 -1000
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-20 21:56 -0700
        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-16 19:39 -0700
    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-16 14:17 -0700
    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-16 18:05 -0700
      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-16 18:42 -0700
        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-17 17:09 -0700
          Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-17 18:11 -0700
            Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-17 18:26 -0700
              Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-17 22:59 -0500
                Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 01:26 -0400
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 01:31 -0400
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 22:35 -0700
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-18 01:10 -0500
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 22:34 -0700
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? dunno <dunno@dunno.dunno> - 2016-10-19 21:27 +0000
                Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-17 22:51 -0700
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-18 00:01 -0700
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-18 00:29 -0700
                      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-18 00:50 -0700
                        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-18 08:04 -0700
                          Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-18 18:56 +0200
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-21 22:02 +0000
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-22 16:15 +0000
                      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-11-04 21:18 +0000
                        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-04 22:26 +0000
                Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-17 23:56 -0700
              Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-18 13:02 +0200
                Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 14:34 +0300
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-18 15:33 +0200
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 16:38 +0300
          Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 21:36 -0700
      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-16 22:20 -0400
        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-16 19:37 -0700
          Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 00:18 -0400
        Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-17 15:39 -0700
          Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 19:24 -0400
            Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-17 18:21 -0700
              Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-18 02:24 -0400
                Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-18 00:07 -0700
                  Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-19 03:20 -0400
                    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-20 22:38 -0700
            Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 21:35 -0700
          Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 21:35 -0700
          Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? dunno <dunno@dunno.dunno> - 2016-10-19 21:27 +0000
      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-16 19:35 -0700
    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-16 18:45 -0700
      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-16 20:09 -0700
    Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? Manuel Rodriguez <aa5@gmx.net> - 2016-10-18 08:23 -0700
      Re: Did Nikola Tesla invented the Quantum computer? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-18 19:05 +0200

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#51995

On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 5:49:38 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote:
> On 10/17/2016 8:23 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 6:14:02 PM UTC-7, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> >> Thus Tesla based his work on (back then) very recent theories and
> >> discoveries, and of course a lot of people didn't understand
> >> anything. He was a genius in practical engineering, but the theory
> >> was already there, and tested: he just applied that theory.
> >
> > This is typical Bernd Paysan --- belittles everybody's work --- Tesla
> > actually made significant contributions to people's understanding of
> > electricity, especially in regard to alternating current.
> 
> > AC is used to cancel out inductance,
> 
> What???  Ok, your license to even discuss science has been revoked!!!
> 
> 
> > allowing electricity to be transported long
> > distances, although we still lose something like 1/3 of the energy
> > generated in our power plants.
> 
> AC vs. DC has nothing to do with canceling inductance or whatever else 
> your mind is thinking.  It is the simple fact that with AC it is easy to 
> change the voltage and therefore current while this is not so easy in 
> DC.  AC uses transformers (notice the name?) to transform lower voltage 
> AC to higher voltage AC and back again.  The advantage is that at a 
> higher voltage the resistive losses are lower because of the lower 
> current.  AC has its own set of problem but they are easier to work 
> with... until recently.  Now that practical circuits to transform DC 
> voltages exist high voltage DC power lines have become a reality.  I 
> have not read up on it to see what the advantages and disadvantages are, 
> but they are being used.
> 
> 
> > Our "understanding" of electricity could better be desribed as
> > "familiarity" with electricity --- nobody actually knows how
> > electricity works --- inductance is a big WTF for any student of
> > electricity (the analogy about water flowing through a pipe is okay
> > for resistance and current, but not for inductance).
> 
> Lol, you must have flunked physics.  A simple mechanical system of a 
> mass, spring and a damper use exactly the same equations to describe the 
> motion as the voltage in an AC circuit with inductance, capacitance and 
> resistance.  This is actually a good analogy to learn from.

No --- you don't know what inductance is --- inductance involves imaginary numbers, so a mechanical system with a mass, spring and damper isn't going to be a good analogy. Ohm's Law only involves real numbers, so it can be represented by a mechanical analogy, but Ohm's Law does not take into account inductance.

You are supposedly an electrical engineer??? This is very basic electronics --- most high school students know that alternating-current cancels out inductance and allows electricity to be carried long distances, whereas direct-current can only go short distances --- if you don't know this much, then you are certainly not an electrical engineer, or even an EE student; you're a fake.

> > I read one physicist who said that reality is actually nothing like
> > the physical world that we experience with our sight, hearing and
> > touch. We don't know what reality is like --- we don't even know what
> > it would be like to know what it is like.
> 
> Yeah, people say all sorts of stuff.

So, you are saying that you have a firm understanding of what electricity is, and of what reality is? That is very arrogant --- that is B.S. --- it has been several decades since anybody has believed that Newtonian physics describes reality.

Reality is actually nothing like the physical world that we experience with our sight, hearing and touch --- nobody has a firm understanding of what reality is --- we can familiarize ourselves with electricity, and develop equations that describe how it behaves, but we don't know what it is.

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#51997

On 10/18/2016 4:11 AM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 5:49:38 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote:
>> On 10/17/2016 8:23 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 6:14:02 PM UTC-7, Bernd Paysan
>>> wrote:
>>>> Thus Tesla based his work on (back then) very recent theories
>>>> and discoveries, and of course a lot of people didn't
>>>> understand anything. He was a genius in practical engineering,
>>>> but the theory was already there, and tested: he just applied
>>>> that theory.
>>>
>>> This is typical Bernd Paysan --- belittles everybody's work ---
>>> Tesla actually made significant contributions to people's
>>> understanding of electricity, especially in regard to alternating
>>> current.
>>
>>> AC is used to cancel out inductance,
>>
>> What???  Ok, your license to even discuss science has been
>> revoked!!!
>>
>>
>>> allowing electricity to be transported long distances, although
>>> we still lose something like 1/3 of the energy generated in our
>>> power plants.
>>
>> AC vs. DC has nothing to do with canceling inductance or whatever
>> else your mind is thinking.  It is the simple fact that with AC it
>> is easy to change the voltage and therefore current while this is
>> not so easy in DC.  AC uses transformers (notice the name?) to
>> transform lower voltage AC to higher voltage AC and back again.
>> The advantage is that at a higher voltage the resistive losses are
>> lower because of the lower current.  AC has its own set of problem
>> but they are easier to work with... until recently.  Now that
>> practical circuits to transform DC voltages exist high voltage DC
>> power lines have become a reality.  I have not read up on it to see
>> what the advantages and disadvantages are, but they are being
>> used.
>>
>>
>>> Our "understanding" of electricity could better be desribed as
>>> "familiarity" with electricity --- nobody actually knows how
>>> electricity works --- inductance is a big WTF for any student of
>>> electricity (the analogy about water flowing through a pipe is
>>> okay for resistance and current, but not for inductance).
>>
>> Lol, you must have flunked physics.  A simple mechanical system of
>> a mass, spring and a damper use exactly the same equations to
>> describe the motion as the voltage in an AC circuit with
>> inductance, capacitance and resistance.  This is actually a good
>> analogy to learn from.
>
> No --- you don't know what inductance is --- inductance involves
> imaginary numbers, so a mechanical system with a mass, spring and
> damper isn't going to be a good analogy. Ohm's Law only involves real
> numbers, so it can be represented by a mechanical analogy, but Ohm's
> Law does not take into account inductance.

What does Ohm's law have to do with mechanical systems?  Have you even 
looked at how to describe a mechanical system?  How do you think a 
piezoelectric crystal oscillator works?  It's actually mechanical but 
appears to the circuit as a tuned LC circuit.

> You are supposedly an electrical engineer??? This is very basic
> electronics --- most high school students know that
> alternating-current cancels out inductance and allows electricity to
> be carried long distances, whereas direct-current can only go short
> distances --- if you don't know this much, then you are certainly not
> an electrical engineer, or even an EE student; you're a fake.

Yes, it *is* basic electronics.  Try learning something about it instead 
of just ignoring the world.

http://bfy.tw/8F97


>>> I read one physicist who said that reality is actually nothing
>>> like the physical world that we experience with our sight,
>>> hearing and touch. We don't know what reality is like --- we
>>> don't even know what it would be like to know what it is like.
>>
>> Yeah, people say all sorts of stuff.
>
> So, you are saying that you have a firm understanding of what
> electricity is, and of what reality is? That is very arrogant ---
> that is B.S. --- it has been several decades since anybody has
> believed that Newtonian physics describes reality.

I'm saying that the guy you quoted was spouting BS.


> Reality is actually nothing like the physical world that we
> experience with our sight, hearing and touch --- nobody has a firm
> understanding of what reality is --- we can familiarize ourselves
> with electricity, and develop equations that describe how it behaves,
> but we don't know what it is.

If you say so...

If you said that our science is just a model of the world and only an 
approximation, then yes, I agree.  But I think reality is *exactly* what 
we perceive, not what the science describes.  Science is limited to the 
things that are reproducible.  That is why it does so poorly with some 
areas, like understanding people.  We can study what people do in 
numbers, but not what happens in an individual.  Science is poor at that 
because we can't constrain it to experiments very well.

-- 

Rick C

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#52015

On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 12:15:53 PM UTC+3, rickman wrote:
> On 10/18/2016 4:11 AM, hugh wrote:
> > On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 5:49:38 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote:
> >> On 10/17/2016 8:23 PM, hugh wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 6:14:02 PM UTC-7, Bernd Paysan
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Thus Tesla based his work on (back then) very recent theories
> >>>> and discoveries, and of course a lot of people didn't
> >>>> understand anything. He was a genius in practical engineering,
> >>>> but the theory was already there, and tested: he just applied
> >>>> that theory.
> >>>
> >>> This is typical Bernd Paysan --- belittles everybody's work ---
> >>> Tesla actually made significant contributions to people's
> >>> understanding of electricity, especially in regard to alternating
> >>> current.
> >>
> >>> AC is used to cancel out inductance,
> >>
> >> What???  Ok, your license to even discuss science has been
> >> revoked!!!
> >>
> >>
> >>> allowing electricity to be transported long distances, although
> >>> we still lose something like 1/3 of the energy generated in our
> >>> power plants.
> >>
> >> AC vs. DC has nothing to do with canceling inductance or whatever
> >> else your mind is thinking.  It is the simple fact that with AC it
> >> is easy to change the voltage and therefore current while this is
> >> not so easy in DC.  AC uses transformers (notice the name?) to
> >> transform lower voltage AC to higher voltage AC and back again.
> >> The advantage is that at a higher voltage the resistive losses are
> >> lower because of the lower current.  AC has its own set of problem
> >> but they are easier to work with... until recently.  Now that
> >> practical circuits to transform DC voltages exist high voltage DC
> >> power lines have become a reality.  I have not read up on it to see
> >> what the advantages and disadvantages are, but they are being
> >> used.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Our "understanding" of electricity could better be desribed as
> >>> "familiarity" with electricity --- nobody actually knows how
> >>> electricity works --- inductance is a big WTF for any student of
> >>> electricity (the analogy about water flowing through a pipe is
> >>> okay for resistance and current, but not for inductance).
> >>
> >> Lol, you must have flunked physics.  A simple mechanical system of
> >> a mass, spring and a damper use exactly the same equations to
> >> describe the motion as the voltage in an AC circuit with
> >> inductance, capacitance and resistance.  This is actually a good
> >> analogy to learn from.
> >
> > No --- you don't know what inductance is --- inductance involves
> > imaginary numbers, so a mechanical system with a mass, spring and
> > damper isn't going to be a good analogy. Ohm's Law only involves real
> > numbers, so it can be represented by a mechanical analogy, but Ohm's
> > Law does not take into account inductance.
> 
> What does Ohm's law have to do with mechanical systems?  Have you even 
> looked at how to describe a mechanical system?  How do you think a 
> piezoelectric crystal oscillator works?  It's actually mechanical but 
> appears to the circuit as a tuned LC circuit.
> 
> > You are supposedly an electrical engineer??? This is very basic
> > electronics --- most high school students know that
> > alternating-current cancels out inductance and allows electricity to
> > be carried long distances, whereas direct-current can only go short
> > distances --- if you don't know this much, then you are certainly not
> > an electrical engineer, or even an EE student; you're a fake.
> 
> Yes, it *is* basic electronics.  Try learning something about it instead 
> of just ignoring the world.
> 
> http://bfy.tw/8F97
> 
> 
> >>> I read one physicist who said that reality is actually nothing
> >>> like the physical world that we experience with our sight,
> >>> hearing and touch. We don't know what reality is like --- we
> >>> don't even know what it would be like to know what it is like.
> >>
> >> Yeah, people say all sorts of stuff.
> >
> > So, you are saying that you have a firm understanding of what
> > electricity is, and of what reality is? That is very arrogant ---
> > that is B.S. --- it has been several decades since anybody has
> > believed that Newtonian physics describes reality.
> 
> I'm saying that the guy you quoted was spouting BS.
> 
> 
> > Reality is actually nothing like the physical world that we
> > experience with our sight, hearing and touch --- nobody has a firm
> > understanding of what reality is --- we can familiarize ourselves
> > with electricity, and develop equations that describe how it behaves,
> > but we don't know what it is.
> 
> If you say so...
> 
> If you said that our science is just a model of the world and only an 
> approximation, then yes, I agree.  But I think reality is *exactly* what 
> we perceive, not what the science describes.  Science is limited to the 
> things that are reproducible.  That is why it does so poorly with some 
> areas, like understanding people.  We can study what people do in 
> numbers, but not what happens in an individual.  Science is poor at that 
> because we can't constrain it to experiments very well.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick C

Hi!

> Science is limited to the 
> things that are reproducible.

Bad news.  At now, an worryingly amounts of experiments
are faked:  http://theinternationalforecaster.com/International_Forecaster_Weekly/The_Crisis_of_Science

Have a nice day,
humptydumpty

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#52010

On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 9:11:45 PM UTC+13, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> inductance involves imaginary numbers, so a mechanical system with a mass,
> spring and damper isn't going to be a good analogy.

It’s not an “analogy”. The mathematical term is “isomorphism”. That means the maths is identical:

    inductance ≡ inertia
    capacitance ≡ spring
    resistance ≡ friction

For example, a car’s suspension system can indeed undergo oscillations, if it didn’t have shock absorbers (resistors) to damp them down.

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#51973

On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 8:24:00 PM UTC-4, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 6:14:02 PM UTC-7, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> > Thus Tesla based his work on (back then) very recent theories and 
> > discoveries, and of course a lot of people didn't understand anything.  
> > He was a genius in practical engineering, but the theory was already 
> > there, and tested: he just applied that theory.
> 
> This is typical Bernd Paysan --- belittles everybody's work --- Tesla actually made significant contributions to people's understanding of electricity, especially in regard to alternating current. AC is used to cancel out inductance, allowing electricity to be transported long distances, although we still lose something like 1/3 of the energy generated in our power plants.
> 
> Our "understanding" of electricity could better be desribed as "familiarity" with electricity --- nobody actually knows how electricity works --- inductance is a big WTF for any student of electricity (the analogy about water flowing through a pipe is okay for resistance and current, but not for inductance).
> 
> I read one physicist who said that reality is actually nothing like the physical world that we experience with our sight, hearing and touch. We don't know what reality is like --- we don't even know what it would be like to know what it is like.

bernd is a snotty bugger isnt he

usa is way higher than germany standard of living despite millions of illegal immigrants

:)

socialism wont ever work!

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#52002

On Tuesday, 18 October 2016 05:37:23 UTC+1, polymorph self  wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 8:24:00 PM UTC-4, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 6:14:02 PM UTC-7, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> > > Thus Tesla based his work on (back then) very recent theories and 
> > > discoveries, and of course a lot of people didn't understand anything.  
> > > He was a genius in practical engineering, but the theory was already 
> > > there, and tested: he just applied that theory.
> > 
> > This is typical Bernd Paysan --- belittles everybody's work --- Tesla actually made significant contributions to people's understanding of electricity, especially in regard to alternating current. AC is used to cancel out inductance, allowing electricity to be transported long distances, although we still lose something like 1/3 of the energy generated in our power plants.
> > 
> > Our "understanding" of electricity could better be desribed as "familiarity" with electricity --- nobody actually knows how electricity works --- inductance is a big WTF for any student of electricity (the analogy about water flowing through a pipe is okay for resistance and current, but not for inductance).
> > 
> > I read one physicist who said that reality is actually nothing like the physical world that we experience with our sight, hearing and touch. We don't know what reality is like --- we don't even know what it would be like to know what it is like.
> 
> bernd is a snotty bugger isnt he
> 
> usa is way higher than germany standard of living despite millions of illegal immigrants

Proof that you have no idea what you are talking about.

You've clearly never lived in Germany. I have. Little town called
Flensburg. Lovely place. The standard of living in Germany is higher
than the USA in just about any metric you care to mention.

It's a completely different, (and much nicer) world.

America is dead. Being hollowed out from the inside by millions and 
millions of citizens living on food stamps, and no hope of ever finding
a job; continually declining education standards; a race war; and a
completely out of control war-mongering government, controlled by the
military-industrial complex.

I'd rather starve than live in the USA. No offence to the people of
the USA, I like Americans (except for the TSA at airports, WTF is 
wrong with those guys?) but, having spent time there (Chicago), well,
let's just say I was VERY glad to get home.

> socialism won't ever work!

You sure? It's alive and well in the USA (foodstamps, Obamacare).
Perhaps take a look closer to home ;-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52024

On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 8:30:54 AM UTC-4, Mark Wills wrote:
> On Tuesday, 18 October 2016 05:37:23 UTC+1, polymorph self  wrote:
> > On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 8:24:00 PM UTC-4, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 6:14:02 PM UTC-7, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> > > > Thus Tesla based his work on (back then) very recent theories and 
> > > > discoveries, and of course a lot of people didn't understand anything.  
> > > > He was a genius in practical engineering, but the theory was already 
> > > > there, and tested: he just applied that theory.
> > > 
> > > This is typical Bernd Paysan --- belittles everybody's work --- Tesla actually made significant contributions to people's understanding of electricity, especially in regard to alternating current. AC is used to cancel out inductance, allowing electricity to be transported long distances, although we still lose something like 1/3 of the energy generated in our power plants.
> > > 
> > > Our "understanding" of electricity could better be desribed as "familiarity" with electricity --- nobody actually knows how electricity works --- inductance is a big WTF for any student of electricity (the analogy about water flowing through a pipe is okay for resistance and current, but not for inductance).
> > > 
> > > I read one physicist who said that reality is actually nothing like the physical world that we experience with our sight, hearing and touch. We don't know what reality is like --- we don't even know what it would be like to know what it is like.
> > 
> > bernd is a snotty bugger isnt he
> > 
> > usa is way higher than germany standard of living despite millions of illegal immigrants
> 
> Proof that you have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> You've clearly never lived in Germany. I have. Little town called
> Flensburg. Lovely place. The standard of living in Germany is higher
> than the USA in just about any metric you care to mention.
> 
> It's a completely different, (and much nicer) world.
> 
> America is dead. Being hollowed out from the inside by millions and 
> millions of citizens living on food stamps, and no hope of ever finding
> a job; continually declining education standards; a race war; and a
> completely out of control war-mongering government, controlled by the
> military-industrial complex.
> 
> I'd rather starve than live in the USA. No offence to the people of
> the USA, I like Americans (except for the TSA at airports, WTF is 
> wrong with those guys?) but, having spent time there (Chicago), well,
> let's just say I was VERY glad to get home.
> 
> > socialism won't ever work!
> 
> You sure? It's alive and well in the USA (foodstamps, Obamacare).
> Perhaps take a look closer to home ;-)

Silence commy dunce!!

USA is by FAR no 1 standard of living!!!
We are stopping muzzy immigration as soon as we have chimpy gone!
Then We building a wall!
Hows that?
German leades fly to mayo clinic when sik!
We have bigger house car and nice weather!
Germany bunch of pussies and multi generational tax parasite wana be duke and courtiers!
Should have let hitler organize europe.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52036

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 05:30:52 -0700 (PDT)
Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, 18 October 2016 05:37:23 UTC+1, polymorph self  wrote:

<OT>

> > usa is way higher than germany standard of living despite millions
> > of illegal immigrants  
> 
> Proof that you have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> You've clearly never lived in Germany. I have. Little town called
> Flensburg. Lovely place. The standard of living in Germany is higher
> than the USA in just about any metric you care to mention.

A relative of mine went there many years ago to visit various
automotive suppliers all across Germany.  He did enjoy the Autobahn in
areas where there were no speed limits.  IIRC, he said that no one
lived in rural or suburban communities.  Everyone lived in town.  So,
the land wasn't as developed or development wasn't as widespread. I
think he posited that much of the land outside town seemed to be owned
by wealthy estates.  If true, that would fit with the problem the E.U.
has with dynastic wealth.

> It's a completely different, (and much nicer) world.

The U.S. has a wide variety of cultures, education, environments, and
wealth levels.  As you've seen, there are even radically different
beliefs within our political parties, and wide differences in beliefs
across America.  There are a number of free websites which show
demographics by Zipcode, such as ESRI's Ziptapestry, or Nielsen
Segments (formerly Claritas Prizm) Prizm Permier, Prizm, or P$YCLE.
These break America up into different socioeconomic groups, usually 65
to 70 or so, e.g., education, income, race, family size, social groups,
lifestyle activities, entertainment, etc.  Zipcodes predominantly
correspond to a geographical area for sending mail, but that's not true
of all Zipcodes, as some refer to buildings, mailboxes, streets, mule
routes, etc.  Yes, the U.S. Post Office still delivers mail by mule in
the Grand Canyon.

https://segmentationsolutions.nielsen.com/mybestsegments/
http://www.esri.com/data/esri_data/ziptapestry

Last U.S. Post Office mule route, Supai, Arizona:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supai,_Arizona

> America is dead. Being hollowed out from the inside by millions and 
> millions of citizens living on food stamps, and no hope of ever
> finding a job; continually declining education standards;

This is all a result of free-trade which was pushed by liberals,
wealthy elites, and powerful corporations.

> a race war;

That's not here yet.  Technically, the majority of blacks (or
African-Americans) are in a constant state of hatred and racism towards
whites.  And, presidential candidate Donald Trump has offended a few
minority groups, like Muslims, and Hispanics or Latinos.  In the U.S.,
racist blacks can't be called racist, as blacks are seen as the
perpetual victims of racism.  It's not politically correct.  Also,
since most blacks live in predominantly black communities, many don't
even recognize when they've said something racist towards others.  No
one is around to cite them on racist statements.

So, the term "race war" has a very different connotation here.  It
means that racist whites managed to provoke all blacks in America to go
on a violent rampage against all whites, and so both non-racist and
racist whites, together, are then forced to defend themselves from the
now violent, uncontrollable blacks by using legal force.  I.e., since
whites outnumber blacks by 6 to 1 here, it's a Nazi-like "Final
Solution," but intended for the issue of abundant and poor black
minorities who serve no apparent purpose.  This concept is pushed by
racist white groups.  It's a wet-dream for racists.

Unfortunately, given that free-trade has decimated blue-collar union
jobs, which employed many blacks and paid well enough to lift people
out of poverty, there really is no need for the black worker in America
today.  Their jobs are outsourced to Mexico and China, and now India and
Brazil.  So, a race war could still happen in the future as things
will  NOT  be getting better for blacks in America any time soon.

> and a completely out of control war-mongering government,

I don't see that.  I think the U.S. has been handling the threats that
much of the rest of the world is in denial over or failing to action on.
The E.U. has been taking an  EXTREMELY  passive stance on violence and
terrorism occurring within it's region of control, within their own
countries, and also in regards Russia and Iran.  At some point,
weak-willed European countries are going to have to stop using NATO as
an excuse to suckle from America's teats.

> controlled by the military-industrial complex.

I think that is the other way around.  U.S. government military demand
drives the military-industrial complex.  These companies aren't about
to spend deca-billions developing military products unless they have
money in hand via a guaranteed contract or the financial prize of a
competitive contract is exceptionally large.  A single U.S. missile
costs a million dollars.  No company would produce a relatively
inexpensive military product, such as a missile, on their own, unless
they had a U.S. government contract, or they had approval from the U.S.
government to export the product to friendly nations or allies.

> I'd rather starve than live in the USA.

It sounds like you had a bad experience in a decrepit area of a major
U.S. city, perhaps an area controlled by drug gangs.  I knew a black
guy from Detroit who got beat up and robbed when he went into Chicago.
He was a tall and muscular dude too.  He was not a guy you'd approach
with the intent of beating up.

Basically, the wealthy live in core area of U.S. cities and wealthy
enclaves 60 to 80 miles out from the city, the poor and desperate live
in non-core area of major cities, blue-collar workers live in suburbs
just outside and around the city edges, white-collar workers live in
suburbs 25 to 45 miles out from the city, and rural folk live far away
from the city.  This holds true for the vast majority of U.S. cities.
There are only a few exceptions where things are slightly different.

> No offence to the people of the USA, I like Americans 

...

> (except for the TSA at airports, WTF is wrong with those guys?)

Nobody knows the complete answer to that.

We do know that they are taught to look for "suspicious" people and
behaviors, many of which would just constitute you being nervous,
especially since they're going to feel you up and call it a security
check.  And, they're not allowed to "racially profile" people, since
that would be discrimination.  So, they're legally justified to
be equally abusive.  As a federal agency, they're exempt from many laws
and regulations that would apply under state laws which prevent abuse
and assaults, etc.  You can sue for egregious situations, but your case
won't get anywhere.  Of course, they generally blame the victim too,
usually directing them to read the TSA's rules and regulations.

Many of TSA minority employees are clearly "diversity hires," but that
is the way with many government and military jobs here.  The government
takes people other employers simply wouldn't, e.g., borderline mentally
handicapped, unemployable minorities, people with violent tendencies,
and gang members.  If you want to know why some of the military and
government employees go crazy and kill people, this is why.  In recent
years, we've seen military people do so, while in the recent past it was
postal workers.  If you want to know how gang members learn how to
shoot or use explosives, yes, they were trained by our government when
they joined the military.

> but, having spent time there (Chicago), well, let's just say I was
> VERY glad to get home.

I've not been to Chicago, but I have been to a number of other large
cities, New York, Atlanta, Detroit, etc.  I'm assuming it is somewhat
of a cross between New York and Detroit.  It has similar levels of
poverty and murder as Detroit, but is more developed like New York.  If
you're a white person, there are probably more than a few decrepit,
poverty stricken neighborhoods, which you generally don't want to go
into.  While many "good" people and families live in these areas,
they're usually controlled by black or Hispanic minorities, mostly drug
dealing gang members who are usually armed with guns.  Riots by blacks
in the 1950s and 1960s in major U.S. cities caused "white flight."
Minorities were wanting better treatment and equality, but most whites
weren't familiar with the social issues facing minorities.  So, they
only saw the resulting violence and destruction of the riots.  They
were fearful and fled.  Of course, poverty stricken minorities didn't
have the capital to own and maintain property.  Sometimes the were
discriminated against by banks too.  That led to urban decay.

> > socialism won't ever work!  
> 
> You sure? It's alive and well in the USA (foodstamps, Obamacare).
> Perhaps take a look closer to home ;-)

Well, socialism has failed in many countries.  Their economies usually
end up imploding at some point in their history due to hyper inflation,
e.g., Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, and even China, Russia, etc.

Yes, Obama is somewhat socialist, which is part of why he is always
being called a "Muslim."  The majority of American blacks strongly
support government social programs, as so many of them are in poverty,
which they claim is driven by racism and the after effects of slavery.
So, while Obama is out of line with the views of most Americans, he's
aligned with the long-standing views of the black community.  He also
seems to support many non-Christian religious viewpoints which
irritates everyone as the majority of the U.S. is Christian.

Most of the U.S. identifies as Christian (70%), but even non-Christians
grew up with Christian parents, relatives, and beliefs.  Democrats
are 35% of the U.S. population, Republicans are 27%, blacks are 12%, and
independents and/or Libertarians are 40%.  So, don't believe the
liberal mainstream U.S. media when they say conservatives or
Republicans are religious, but liberals or Democrats are scientific
minded.  Bernie Sanders is a socialist.  In our political system, he's
far, far left. I'm not sure if he is off the left end of our scale, but
he's close, if not.  He might be a moderate Democrat in the EU or UK.
The fact that millennials supported him was shocking, as America has
always been capitalist and individualist.


Rod Pemberton

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52076

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 4:03:28 AM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 05:30:52 -0700 (PDT)
> Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Tuesday, 18 October 2016 05:37:23 UTC+1, polymorph self  wrote:
> 
> <OT>
> 
> > > usa is way higher than germany standard of living despite millions
> > > of illegal immigrants  
> > 
> > Proof that you have no idea what you are talking about.
> > 
> > You've clearly never lived in Germany. I have. Little town called
> > Flensburg. Lovely place. The standard of living in Germany is higher
> > than the USA in just about any metric you care to mention.
> 
> A relative of mine went there many years ago to visit various
> automotive suppliers all across Germany.  He did enjoy the Autobahn in
> areas where there were no speed limits.  IIRC, he said that no one
> lived in rural or suburban communities.  Everyone lived in town.  So,
> the land wasn't as developed or development wasn't as widespread. I
> think he posited that much of the land outside town seemed to be owned
> by wealthy estates.  If true, that would fit with the problem the E.U.
> has with dynastic wealth.
> 
> > It's a completely different, (and much nicer) world.
> 
> The U.S. has a wide variety of cultures, education, environments, and
> wealth levels.  As you've seen, there are even radically different
> beliefs within our political parties, and wide differences in beliefs
> across America.  There are a number of free websites which show
> demographics by Zipcode, such as ESRI's Ziptapestry, or Nielsen
> Segments (formerly Claritas Prizm) Prizm Permier, Prizm, or P$YCLE.
> These break America up into different socioeconomic groups, usually 65
> to 70 or so, e.g., education, income, race, family size, social groups,
> lifestyle activities, entertainment, etc.  Zipcodes predominantly
> correspond to a geographical area for sending mail, but that's not true
> of all Zipcodes, as some refer to buildings, mailboxes, streets, mule
> routes, etc.  Yes, the U.S. Post Office still delivers mail by mule in
> the Grand Canyon.
> 
> https://segmentationsolutions.nielsen.com/mybestsegments/
> http://www.esri.com/data/esri_data/ziptapestry
> 
> Last U.S. Post Office mule route, Supai, Arizona:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supai,_Arizona
> 
> > America is dead. Being hollowed out from the inside by millions and 
> > millions of citizens living on food stamps, and no hope of ever
> > finding a job; continually declining education standards;
> 
> This is all a result of free-trade which was pushed by liberals,
> wealthy elites, and powerful corporations.
> 
> > a race war;
> 
> That's not here yet.  Technically, the majority of blacks (or
> African-Americans) are in a constant state of hatred and racism towards
> whites.  And, presidential candidate Donald Trump has offended a few
> minority groups, like Muslims, and Hispanics or Latinos.  In the U.S.,
> racist blacks can't be called racist, as blacks are seen as the
> perpetual victims of racism.  It's not politically correct.  Also,
> since most blacks live in predominantly black communities, many don't
> even recognize when they've said something racist towards others.  No
> one is around to cite them on racist statements.
> 
> So, the term "race war" has a very different connotation here.  It
> means that racist whites managed to provoke all blacks in America to go
> on a violent rampage against all whites, and so both non-racist and
> racist whites, together, are then forced to defend themselves from the
> now violent, uncontrollable blacks by using legal force.  I.e., since
> whites outnumber blacks by 6 to 1 here, it's a Nazi-like "Final
> Solution," but intended for the issue of abundant and poor black
> minorities who serve no apparent purpose.  This concept is pushed by
> racist white groups.  It's a wet-dream for racists.
> 
> Unfortunately, given that free-trade has decimated blue-collar union
> jobs, which employed many blacks and paid well enough to lift people
> out of poverty, there really is no need for the black worker in America
> today.  Their jobs are outsourced to Mexico and China, and now India and
> Brazil.  So, a race war could still happen in the future as things
> will  NOT  be getting better for blacks in America any time soon.
> 
> > and a completely out of control war-mongering government,
> 
> I don't see that.  I think the U.S. has been handling the threats that
> much of the rest of the world is in denial over or failing to action on.
> The E.U. has been taking an  EXTREMELY  passive stance on violence and
> terrorism occurring within it's region of control, within their own
> countries, and also in regards Russia and Iran.  At some point,
> weak-willed European countries are going to have to stop using NATO as
> an excuse to suckle from America's teats.
> 
> > controlled by the military-industrial complex.
> 
> I think that is the other way around.  U.S. government military demand
> drives the military-industrial complex.  These companies aren't about
> to spend deca-billions developing military products unless they have
> money in hand via a guaranteed contract or the financial prize of a
> competitive contract is exceptionally large.  A single U.S. missile
> costs a million dollars.  No company would produce a relatively
> inexpensive military product, such as a missile, on their own, unless
> they had a U.S. government contract, or they had approval from the U.S.
> government to export the product to friendly nations or allies.
> 
> > I'd rather starve than live in the USA.
> 
> It sounds like you had a bad experience in a decrepit area of a major
> U.S. city, perhaps an area controlled by drug gangs.  I knew a black
> guy from Detroit who got beat up and robbed when he went into Chicago.
> He was a tall and muscular dude too.  He was not a guy you'd approach
> with the intent of beating up.
> 
> Basically, the wealthy live in core area of U.S. cities and wealthy
> enclaves 60 to 80 miles out from the city, the poor and desperate live
> in non-core area of major cities, blue-collar workers live in suburbs
> just outside and around the city edges, white-collar workers live in
> suburbs 25 to 45 miles out from the city, and rural folk live far away
> from the city.  This holds true for the vast majority of U.S. cities.
> There are only a few exceptions where things are slightly different.
> 
> > No offence to the people of the USA, I like Americans 
> 
> ...
> 
> > (except for the TSA at airports, WTF is wrong with those guys?)
> 
> Nobody knows the complete answer to that.
> 
> We do know that they are taught to look for "suspicious" people and
> behaviors, many of which would just constitute you being nervous,
> especially since they're going to feel you up and call it a security
> check.  And, they're not allowed to "racially profile" people, since
> that would be discrimination.  So, they're legally justified to
> be equally abusive.  As a federal agency, they're exempt from many laws
> and regulations that would apply under state laws which prevent abuse
> and assaults, etc.  You can sue for egregious situations, but your case
> won't get anywhere.  Of course, they generally blame the victim too,
> usually directing them to read the TSA's rules and regulations.
> 
> Many of TSA minority employees are clearly "diversity hires," but that
> is the way with many government and military jobs here.  The government
> takes people other employers simply wouldn't, e.g., borderline mentally
> handicapped, unemployable minorities, people with violent tendencies,
> and gang members.  If you want to know why some of the military and
> government employees go crazy and kill people, this is why.  In recent
> years, we've seen military people do so, while in the recent past it was
> postal workers.  If you want to know how gang members learn how to
> shoot or use explosives, yes, they were trained by our government when
> they joined the military.
> 
> > but, having spent time there (Chicago), well, let's just say I was
> > VERY glad to get home.
> 
> I've not been to Chicago, but I have been to a number of other large
> cities, New York, Atlanta, Detroit, etc.  I'm assuming it is somewhat
> of a cross between New York and Detroit.  It has similar levels of
> poverty and murder as Detroit, but is more developed like New York.  If
> you're a white person, there are probably more than a few decrepit,
> poverty stricken neighborhoods, which you generally don't want to go
> into.  While many "good" people and families live in these areas,
> they're usually controlled by black or Hispanic minorities, mostly drug
> dealing gang members who are usually armed with guns.  Riots by blacks
> in the 1950s and 1960s in major U.S. cities caused "white flight."
> Minorities were wanting better treatment and equality, but most whites
> weren't familiar with the social issues facing minorities.  So, they
> only saw the resulting violence and destruction of the riots.  They
> were fearful and fled.  Of course, poverty stricken minorities didn't
> have the capital to own and maintain property.  Sometimes the were
> discriminated against by banks too.  That led to urban decay.
> 
> > > socialism won't ever work!  
> > 
> > You sure? It's alive and well in the USA (foodstamps, Obamacare).
> > Perhaps take a look closer to home ;-)
> 
> Well, socialism has failed in many countries.  Their economies usually
> end up imploding at some point in their history due to hyper inflation,
> e.g., Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, and even China, Russia, etc.
> 
> Yes, Obama is somewhat socialist, which is part of why he is always
> being called a "Muslim."  The majority of American blacks strongly
> support government social programs, as so many of them are in poverty,
> which they claim is driven by racism and the after effects of slavery.
> So, while Obama is out of line with the views of most Americans, he's
> aligned with the long-standing views of the black community.  He also
> seems to support many non-Christian religious viewpoints which
> irritates everyone as the majority of the U.S. is Christian.
> 
> Most of the U.S. identifies as Christian (70%), but even non-Christians
> grew up with Christian parents, relatives, and beliefs.  Democrats
> are 35% of the U.S. population, Republicans are 27%, blacks are 12%, and
> independents and/or Libertarians are 40%.  So, don't believe the
> liberal mainstream U.S. media when they say conservatives or
> Republicans are religious, but liberals or Democrats are scientific
> minded.  Bernie Sanders is a socialist.  In our political system, he's
> far, far left. I'm not sure if he is off the left end of our scale, but
> he's close, if not.  He might be a moderate Democrat in the EU or UK.
> The fact that millennials supported him was shocking, as America has
> always been capitalist and individualist.
> 
> 
> Rod Pemberton

The USA is the most moral country ever.  Ended slavery.   Made modern world.  Saved Europe from Nazis.   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGnue1Cdu7M
We shall brook no criticism from less countries.
Starve in your own poverty and write us a poem as you do!
Good day!

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#52103

On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 3:16:43 PM UTC+13, polymorph self wrote:
> The USA is the most moral country ever.  Ended slavery.

Interesting that the Thirteen Colonies declared independence just around the time of an important court case in the UK regarding the rights of black people. That way, they were able to hold on to their slaves for nearly another century, while the mother country had declared slavery illegal by 1800.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52125

On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 5:36:16 PM UTC-7, lawren...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 3:16:43 PM UTC+13, polymorph self wrote:
> > The USA is the most moral country ever.  Ended slavery.
> 
> Interesting that the Thirteen Colonies declared independence just around the time of an important court case in the UK regarding the rights of black people. That way, they were able to hold on to their slaves for nearly another century, while the mother country had declared slavery illegal by 1800.

Slavery wasn't important economically in Britain, so it didn't matter there.

Slavery wasn't important anywhere until sugar-cane was discovered in America --- it had largely disappeared after the Roman Empire fell --- with the discovery of sugar-cane however, it was reinstituted.

By the time of the American Civil War, slavery had become unimportant again, because it was no longer economically necessary due to improvements in technology. If there hadn't been a Civil War, slavery would have likely fizzled out --- the South would have voluntarily emancipated the slaves by the turn of the century --- everybody knew that slavery was becoming less and less viable, and that it wouldn't last forever.

Jefferson Davis promoted a plan for gradually ending slavery over a 40 year period (to be completed by the turn of the century). He wanted the slaves to be educated so that when they were freed they could become productive citizens. Also, he wanted to do this gradually so as to not crash the economy. The plan was that slaves would be educated and then freed at age 40, if they wanted to be freed. This age would gradually be lowered --- by the time that it got to 20, slavery would effectively be concluded because you can't base an economy on teenagers.

If Jefferson Davis' plan had been implemented, we could have had a peaceful end to slavery. The Blacks would have been integrated into society with education, so they would have been productive and respectible. As it was, we had a war, and a sudden emancipation of Blacks who were uneducated and unprepared to be integrated into society. Now, over 100 years later, we continue to have racial strife in America as a result. The problem that Jefferson Davis hoped to have solved by 1900 has yet to be solved by 2000. This is what happens when you try to solve problems with war --- you screw everything up --- and everything stays screwed up for decades or even centuries.

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#52127

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 6:06:29 PM UTC+13, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Jefferson Davis promoted a plan for gradually ending slavery over a 40 year
> period ...

... only a century after the civilized world had already decided it was a bad idea.

Is this why the US has such a reputation as a liberal and progressive nation?

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#52128

On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 11:04:37 PM UTC-7, lawren...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 6:06:29 PM UTC+13, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Jefferson Davis promoted a plan for gradually ending slavery over a 40 year
> > period ...
> 
> ... only a century after the civilized world had already decided it was a bad idea.
> 
> Is this why the US has such a reputation as a liberal and progressive nation?

Well, before you get too high and mighty about all of this, note that everybody in Europe bought sugar and became addicted to sugar. They seemed to be pretty happy about the discovery of cane-sugar in America, and not concerned about what was involved in harvesting it.

Are you European?

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#52130

In article <8ac17243-1a79-45d1-bfbc-bb826b09502f@googlegroups.com>, 
hughaguilar96@gmail.com says...
> Slavery wasn't important anywhere until sugar-cane was discovered in America --- it had largely disappeared after the Roman Empire fell 
> 


Tell that to the English after the norman conquest. They lived in conditions far 
worse than any black slave for hundreds of years. ... Sorry.. you just poked a sore 
spot... I'll bow out again.

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#52131

> The USA is the most moral country ever.


You realise the USA the is the only country to drop a nuclear bomb (not
one, but two) on another country, right?

Not even Stalin had the balls to do that.

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#52133

Op Sun, 23 Oct 2016 04:55:56 -0700 (PDT) schreef Mark Wills:

>> The USA is the most moral country ever.
> 
> 
> You realise the USA the is the only country to drop a nuclear bomb (not
> one, but two) on another country, right?
> 
> Not even Stalin had the balls to do that.

He had no time. His bomb came four years after the war.
Four years later he was dead himself.

groet Coos

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#52136

On 10/23/2016 10:32 AM, Coos Haak wrote:
> Op Sun, 23 Oct 2016 04:55:56 -0700 (PDT) schreef Mark Wills:
>
>>> The USA is the most moral country ever.
>>
>>
>> You realise the USA the is the only country to drop a nuclear bomb (not
>> one, but two) on another country, right?
>>
>> Not even Stalin had the balls to do that.
>
> He had no time. His bomb came four years after the war.
> Four years later he was dead himself.
>
> groet Coos
>
In the meantime he made sure that he killed way more persons that the 
bomb did.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#52138

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 9:19:42 AM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> On 10/23/2016 10:32 AM, Coos Haak wrote:
> > Op Sun, 23 Oct 2016 04:55:56 -0700 (PDT) schreef Mark Wills:
> >
> >>> The USA is the most moral country ever.
> >>
> >>
> >> You realise the USA the is the only country to drop a nuclear bomb (not
> >> one, but two) on another country, right?
> >>
> >> Not even Stalin had the balls to do that.
> >
> > He had no time. His bomb came four years after the war.
> > Four years later he was dead himself.
> >
> > groet Coos
> >
> In the meantime he made sure that he killed way more persons that the 
> bomb did.

This is true --- Stalin didn't need the atomic bomb --- he managed to kill masses using pedestrian methods such as starvation and forced labor.

America didn't need the atomic bomb to win the war against Japan either --- America could fire-bomb a city and kill more people than they could by dropping an atomic bomb on the city --- this worked especially well against Japanese cities where the houses had paper walls, but it worked pretty well against Dresden too.

On a related topic --- Stalin was America's ally in WWII --- in those days, we were supposed to be cheering for him.

I have a DVD of propaganda films from WWII. One American-propaganda film is actually a Soviet-propaganda film that was dubbed in English. The DVD had both the original Soviet film in Russian and the American film that had been dubbed over in English. People had noticed that the maps shown in the film all had Cyrillic text on them --- this is how they realized that the film was actually made in Russia, not America. A lot of the American propaganda films from those days had the appearance of Soviet propaganda in that they are promoting heavy industry with all the citizens being like worker bees. Another weird thing that I noticed about the Army recruitment films from WWII shown on the DVD, is that they seemed to be promoting homosexuality, or at least saying that it was condoned. One film showed soldiers on R&R and described how soldiers get to have some fun when they aren't killing Nips, and the film showed two naked men on a beach sitting side by side; we only saw them from behind, but I got the impression that they were jerking off together. Really??? Where are the women? Aren't women a crucial ingredient to having fun? Some of the films were blatantly racist too --- one showed some indig men in Burma hanging telephone cable from trees for the Army, and the narrator said: "None better for climbing trees than fuzzy-wuzzies!"

Anyway --- that was in the 1940s --- we are required to change our B.S. periodically, often by 180 degrees (by B.S. I mean: "belief system").

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#52448

Am Wed, 19 Oct 2016 04:03:52 -0400 schrieb Rod Pemberton:

> A relative of mine went there many years ago to visit various automotive
> suppliers all across Germany.  He did enjoy the Autobahn in areas where
> there were no speed limits.  IIRC, he said that no one lived in rural or
> suburban communities.  Everyone lived in town.

About 75% of the people in Germany live in towns, 25% live in rural 
communities. Suburban is included in "towns" - actually, more people live 
in suburbs than in the inner cities.  In the US, the rural population is 
down to 18% now, so a bit more concentrated than Germany.  This trend to 
urbanization is world-wide, developed countries are ahead, developing 
countries have more people living in rural places (China: about half, 
India: 2/3).

The size of a typical farm in Germany is considerably smaller than in the 
US (438 Acres in the US=177 hectare, 56 hectare in Germany). 1 Acre=0.404 
hectare.  Though in east Germany, the farms are considerably larger, due 
to communist collectivism in the 1950s, which was revised in theory, but 
in practice many people who were driven out of their farms in the 1950s 
didn't want to become farmers again.  So no, we don't have that much the 
problem of dynastic wealth.

The "best places to live in" for a long time has no US city in the 
top-10; some smaller towns like Sausalito still might make it, but it is 
probably just contributing to San Francisco's place 27.  Instead, Vienna, 
Zurich, Auckland, and Munich are the top 4.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_Quality_of_Living_Survey

There was no US city whatsoever in the top 10, half were German 
speaking.  The top five cities in north America were all in Canada; San 
Francisco had place 27 (top US city, I think that is well deserved, with 
Boston and Honolulu next, also deserved).  So German quality of life is 
much better than Hugh's deplorable life as homeless taxi driver living in 
his car.

The ignorant-about-the-rest-of-the-world-index while feeling exceptional 
and much better off than anybody else has the top-100 cities all in the 
US ;-).  One problem is that most US citizens never leave the US.  Yes, 
you always argue "the US is soooo big, we don't need to go elsewhere", 
but Europe is big, too, and you don't need a passport for the Schengen 
treaty region.  Yet most of the US citizens who travel outside the US are 
either jet setters on business trips or immigrants visiting their 
relatives.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#52450

On Friday, November 4, 2016 at 5:48:30 PM UTC-7, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> So German quality of life is 
> much better than Hugh's deplorable life as homeless taxi driver living in 
> his car.

Bernd Paysan routinely takes gratuitous shots at me like this --- somewhat humorously, I recently received an email from a Forth-200x enthusiast telling me to stop making personal attacks on the Forth-200x committee members and stick to technical content --- when the Forth-200x committee members make attacks on me however, these self-appointed morality police have nothing to say.

I remember that Bernd Paysan would publicly consort with John Passaniti here on comp.lang.forth --- where I come from, having truck with homosexuals is not done by decent people --- Germany is the same afaik, so Bernd Paysan's behavior in this regard has brought disgrace down upon the entire nation of Germany.

Bernd Paysan wrote the code for the fake quotations --- they lack access to the parent function's local variables, so they aren't really quotations at all --- he wouldn't put his name on the RfD, and he gave it to Alex McDonald instead, but then Alex McDonald disappeard so now the RfD hangs in limbo waiting for somebody else willing to put his name on it.

Here is the latest thread discussing the quotation RfD:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/ohE8mx7tWQU%5B76-100%5D

Bernd Paysan and Anton Ertl say that it is impossible for a quotation to have access to the parent function's local variables, but I accomplish this easily. I posted my working code here just to make Bernd Paysan and Anton Ertl look stupid --- all of the Forth-200x standard-setters are made to look stupid by any Forth code that works.

On Sunday, July 10, 2016 at 9:23:44 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> As usual, SwiftForth code is grossly over-complicated. I figured it out though. Just as a joke, here is code for both VFX (slightly upgraded to be more efficient) and SwiftForth (not totally trivial, but reasonably easy to write):
> 
> \ in the stack-picture comments, R is a continuation (a vector to a quotation)
> 
> VFX? SwiftForth? or [if]
> 
> \ My code ( VFX or SwiftForth only) requires that the HOF does have local variables.
> 
> : rexit     ( --   )    rdrop ; 
> : (r:)      ( -- r )    r@ 5 + ;    \ 5 is the size of a JMP instruction in 32-bit x86 
> : r[        ( -- r )    postpone (r:)  postpone ahead ;  immediate 
> : ]r        ( --   )    postpone rexit  postpone then ;  immediate 
> 
> VFX? [if]
> 
> code rex    ( r -- )    \ HumptyDumpty called this RCALL
>     push edi            \ this is the HOF's LF which won't be used by the quotation 
>     mov edi, 0 [edi]    \ this is the parent's LF which will be used by the quotation 
>     mov eax, ebx
>     mov ebx, 0 [ebp]  lea ebp, w [ebp]
>     call eax
>     pop edi             \ restore HOF's LF 
>     next, end-code 
>     
> [then]    
> 
> SwiftForth? [if]
> 
> 156 constant lf-offset  \ this is the offset for the local-frame in the user-variables (ESI is the user-variable base)
> 
> code rex    ( r -- )    \ HumptyDumpty called this RCALL
>     lf-offset [esi] edx mov  
>     edx push                    \ this is the HOF's LF which won't be used by the quotation 
>     -4 [edx] eax mov            \ this is the old ESP
>     0 [eax] eax mov             \ this is the parent's LF which will be used by the quotation
>     eax lf-offset [esi] mov
>     ebx eax mov  [drop]
>     eax call
>     lf-offset [esi] pop         \ restore HOF's LF
>     ret end-code 
>         
> [then]
> 
> [else] \ this was written by HumptyDumpty and works on gForth, SwiftForth and VFX
> 
> : rexit     ( --   )        RDROP ; 
> : (r:)      ( -- r )        R@ 0 ; 
> : r[        ( -- r )        postpone (r:)  postpone IF   ; immediate 
> : ]r        ( --   )        postpone REXIT postpone THEN ; immediate 
> : rex       ( r -- )        >R -1 ;                                         \ HumptyDumpty called this RCALL
> 
> \ HumptyDumpty's code requires that the HOF does not have local variables.
> 
> [then]
> 
> \ char & comment              \ this only works for my code (VFX or SwiftForth)
>     
> : test-hof { r | y -- }
>     9 to y
>     cr ." enter TEST-HOF " y .  \ should be 9
>     3 0 do  r rex  loop
>     cr ." leave TEST-HOF " y .  \ should be 9
>     ;
>     
> : test { | x -- }
>     10 to x
>     cr ." before: " x .         \ should be 10
>     r[ 1 +to x ]r  test-hof
>     cr ." after: " x .          \ should be 13
>     ;
>     
> &

I could most likely do this for any ANS-Forth system --- I haven't bothered yet with Gforth (written by Anton Ertl and Bernd Paysan) --- I don't really waste my time with Gforth; it has never been used for commercial software and never will; it is just a toy.

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